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discovering religion and disccusion on the "newer" religions
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Posted 2/24/09

digs wrote:


crunchypibb wrote:


digs wrote:


crunchypibb wrote:


digs wrote:

Power... I think most world religions are based on someone wanting to gain power. Either they create their own beliefs (like suicide cults) or they abuse current ones (Like what Constantine did to Christianity and the Crusades). I believe that religion is only as evil as the individuals who abuse it. Some people formulate a personal "religion" based on their philosophical principals that they find as true or a morality code that they hold as acceptable for them. I believe that there is only One Truth and one True "Religion" (A personal relationship and following the teachings of Jesus the Christ).


-personal religion? Do you know the difference between a religion and a philosophy? Buddhism is often mistaken for a religion when in reality it's just a philosophy towards life.
-One true religion, hmm and i'm guessing that's christianity right? Okay if so, which one?
-As far as "evil" religions go, rule #15 of the internet is so true believe it or not and anything that can be corrupted you can also purify it as well, at least for the base foundations of what it was founded upon so long it didn't have an evil intent in the beginning in my opinion.


By personal religion I mean people who take their philosophies and moral code and use that as their guidelines for life. This can be atheism or agnosticism. Not necessarily a religious sect. And Buddhism is a religion in some sects because they believe in spirits and gods (I think its called Theravada, I may be wrong though). Buddhism apart from the deities is a form of philosophy though.

And yes, by that I do mean Christianity, but I don't adhere to a specific denomination (I am non-denominational and I form my beliefs about God only on what is in the Bible). Of course I believe all who repent in Jesus Name are forgiven and thus become Christians (I do not believe that all denominations are going to hell or that everyone is wrong but me).

And I agree with your last point.


But atheism and agnosticism don't involve a god. By using the term personal religion you imply that there is a god involved. Therefore you are flawed in your own explaination. But ya, it's true that Buddism, depending on what sect you're part of, can either be a religion or philosophy.

Well, every christian sect refers to the bible, so that brings you no where. So if I'm an atheist and ask for Jesus to forgive me on my death bed even if I never believed in anything in the bible, I can still be christian? If you believe in every christian sect than that would mean you believe every explain from each christian sect is correct, even if they contradict themselves. But that would never make sense. Explain to me how this paradox can exist.


By personal religion I am not implying God, I am implying that that is their beliefs. And agnostics can believe in a god, I know a few who hold a deistic agnostic view.

Not every Christian sect refers to the Bible, some believe in new prophets (Like in Mormonism) and some believe in the deification of men (like Catholicism and the Pope/Papacy). Most sects refer to the Bible, but they interpret the messages and verses differently. I personally do not adhere to the teachings of any set denomination and I don't claim to know everything about God (I am still learning an God is still teaching me). Christianity has become an event and not a way of life, I believe that the message of Jesus is not about rituals or churches but about a personal relationship with God through Jesus Christ. Some Christian sects will hold to certain parts of the Bible and ignore others, and some are manipulated by the pride of men. Denominations are things that man makes and tries to apply with the Bible. Where I don't believe that denominations are evil, I do believe that they can be flawed because they are dependent on how a select few people interpret the Bible. Humans are flawed and can interpret an unflawed source fraudulently. The Bible is the direct words of God, denominations are the direct works of theologians (men who apply their theology to church congregations).


Then it would be personal philosophy. If you associate religion with any word you're basically involving a deity/deities.

-Okay, just think about what you said.

Humans are flawed and can interpret an unflawed source fraudulently

You said that the bible itself is the word of God right? Well to recieve the word of God you have to read it and interpret it for yourself right? But you just said that when a few people interpret the bible they can be flawed. But we know that when people come to a collective decision about anything intellectual it's usually better than any of the individual input. So when one person interprets the Bible for him or herself......you figure it out. And then how about when you discuss the same verse with a different person and what they say contradicts what you've read. Then who's right?
-Now if you want a personal relationship with God, then join a monastery asap.
-No rituals? Don't confuse them with stuff like necromancy magic, Jesus himself performed rituals. He did communion with his fellow appostles, which is a ritual believe it or not, and he went through baptism, also a ritual and just some formal right of passage. Nobody came out the same after those things were done.
-No church? Do you not understand the significance of going? In every denomination, including non-denominational, you get to listen to a guy who is smarter than you and knows more about the word of God more than you do!

The Bible is the direct words of God, denominations are the direct works of theologians (men who apply their theology to church congregations)

Okay, so these people who have worked so much harder than you to learn about the word of God and have put in so much years of their life into it, are flawed? If you say that you are implying that you are better than them! Even if you disagree with some of them you have to have a legitamate reason why.
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digs 
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Posted 2/24/09

crunchypibb wrote:


digs wrote:


crunchypibb wrote:


digs wrote:


crunchypibb wrote:


digs wrote:

Power... I think most world religions are based on someone wanting to gain power. Either they create their own beliefs (like suicide cults) or they abuse current ones (Like what Constantine did to Christianity and the Crusades). I believe that religion is only as evil as the individuals who abuse it. Some people formulate a personal "religion" based on their philosophical principals that they find as true or a morality code that they hold as acceptable for them. I believe that there is only One Truth and one True "Religion" (A personal relationship and following the teachings of Jesus the Christ).


-personal religion? Do you know the difference between a religion and a philosophy? Buddhism is often mistaken for a religion when in reality it's just a philosophy towards life.
-One true religion, hmm and i'm guessing that's christianity right? Okay if so, which one?
-As far as "evil" religions go, rule #15 of the internet is so true believe it or not and anything that can be corrupted you can also purify it as well, at least for the base foundations of what it was founded upon so long it didn't have an evil intent in the beginning in my opinion.


By personal religion I mean people who take their philosophies and moral code and use that as their guidelines for life. This can be atheism or agnosticism. Not necessarily a religious sect. And Buddhism is a religion in some sects because they believe in spirits and gods (I think its called Theravada, I may be wrong though). Buddhism apart from the deities is a form of philosophy though.

And yes, by that I do mean Christianity, but I don't adhere to a specific denomination (I am non-denominational and I form my beliefs about God only on what is in the Bible). Of course I believe all who repent in Jesus Name are forgiven and thus become Christians (I do not believe that all denominations are going to hell or that everyone is wrong but me).

And I agree with your last point.


But atheism and agnosticism don't involve a god. By using the term personal religion you imply that there is a god involved. Therefore you are flawed in your own explaination. But ya, it's true that Buddism, depending on what sect you're part of, can either be a religion or philosophy.

Well, every christian sect refers to the bible, so that brings you no where. So if I'm an atheist and ask for Jesus to forgive me on my death bed even if I never believed in anything in the bible, I can still be christian? If you believe in every christian sect than that would mean you believe every explain from each christian sect is correct, even if they contradict themselves. But that would never make sense. Explain to me how this paradox can exist.


By personal religion I am not implying God, I am implying that that is their beliefs. And agnostics can believe in a god, I know a few who hold a deistic agnostic view.

Not every Christian sect refers to the Bible, some believe in new prophets (Like in Mormonism) and some believe in the deification of men (like Catholicism and the Pope/Papacy). Most sects refer to the Bible, but they interpret the messages and verses differently. I personally do not adhere to the teachings of any set denomination and I don't claim to know everything about God (I am still learning an God is still teaching me). Christianity has become an event and not a way of life, I believe that the message of Jesus is not about rituals or churches but about a personal relationship with God through Jesus Christ. Some Christian sects will hold to certain parts of the Bible and ignore others, and some are manipulated by the pride of men. Denominations are things that man makes and tries to apply with the Bible. Where I don't believe that denominations are evil, I do believe that they can be flawed because they are dependent on how a select few people interpret the Bible. Humans are flawed and can interpret an unflawed source fraudulently. The Bible is the direct words of God, denominations are the direct works of theologians (men who apply their theology to church congregations).


Then it would be personal philosophy. If you associate religion with any word you're basically involving a deity/deities.

-Okay, just think about what you said.

Humans are flawed and can interpret an unflawed source fraudulently

You said that the bible itself is the word of God right? Well to recieve the word of God you have to read it and interpret it for yourself right? But you just said that when a few people interpret the bible they can be flawed. But we know that when people come to a collective decision about anything intellectual it's usually better than any of the individual input. So when one person interprets the Bible for him or herself......you figure it out. And then how about when you discuss the same verse with a different person and what they say contradicts what you've read. Then who's right?
-Now if you want a personal relationship with God, then join a monastery asap.
-No rituals? Don't confuse them with stuff like necromancy magic, Jesus himself performed rituals. He did communion with his fellow appostles, which is a ritual believe it or not, and he went through baptism, also a ritual and just some formal right of passage. Nobody came out the same after those things were done.
-No church? Do you not understand the significance of going? In every denomination, including non-denominational, you get to listen to a guy who is smarter than you and knows more about the word of God more than you do!

The Bible is the direct words of God, denominations are the direct works of theologians (men who apply their theology to church congregations)

Okay, so these people who have worked so much harder than you to learn about the word of God and have put in so much years of their life into it, are flawed? If you say that you are implying that you are better than them! Even if you disagree with some of them you have to have a legitamate reason why.


People can come together asa collective believing the same thing, but the thing about denominations is that they have headquarters with people over them. I am not saying it's a bad thing because those places are what support missionaries and help outreach to communities, but I don't like how sometimes the denominations turn corporate and liberal in their thinking and theology (Liberalism in theology is different than political liberalism).

If someone believes something about a verse that contradicts what I believe, I will listen to them and look at other verses in the Bible to either support my claim or change mine. The Bible is the Word's of God inspired by the Holy Spirit. The Same Spirit inspired each book in the Bible. To understand one verse we need to understand the context and if the principal behind it is supported by the Bible. (for instance, issues on whether or not abortion, war, homosexuality, and other issues are supported or condemned by God). I am not implying that I am better than anyone, and I even said that I don't say that I know everything there is to know about God or the Bible. I am still learning and God is still teaching me.
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Posted 2/24/09

digs wrote:


crunchypibb wrote:


digs wrote:


crunchypibb wrote:


digs wrote:


crunchypibb wrote:


digs wrote:

Power... I think most world religions are based on someone wanting to gain power. Either they create their own beliefs (like suicide cults) or they abuse current ones (Like what Constantine did to Christianity and the Crusades). I believe that religion is only as evil as the individuals who abuse it. Some people formulate a personal "religion" based on their philosophical principals that they find as true or a morality code that they hold as acceptable for them. I believe that there is only One Truth and one True "Religion" (A personal relationship and following the teachings of Jesus the Christ).


-personal religion? Do you know the difference between a religion and a philosophy? Buddhism is often mistaken for a religion when in reality it's just a philosophy towards life.
-One true religion, hmm and i'm guessing that's christianity right? Okay if so, which one?
-As far as "evil" religions go, rule #15 of the internet is so true believe it or not and anything that can be corrupted you can also purify it as well, at least for the base foundations of what it was founded upon so long it didn't have an evil intent in the beginning in my opinion.


By personal religion I mean people who take their philosophies and moral code and use that as their guidelines for life. This can be atheism or agnosticism. Not necessarily a religious sect. And Buddhism is a religion in some sects because they believe in spirits and gods (I think its called Theravada, I may be wrong though). Buddhism apart from the deities is a form of philosophy though.

And yes, by that I do mean Christianity, but I don't adhere to a specific denomination (I am non-denominational and I form my beliefs about God only on what is in the Bible). Of course I believe all who repent in Jesus Name are forgiven and thus become Christians (I do not believe that all denominations are going to hell or that everyone is wrong but me).

And I agree with your last point.


But atheism and agnosticism don't involve a god. By using the term personal religion you imply that there is a god involved. Therefore you are flawed in your own explaination. But ya, it's true that Buddism, depending on what sect you're part of, can either be a religion or philosophy.

Well, every christian sect refers to the bible, so that brings you no where. So if I'm an atheist and ask for Jesus to forgive me on my death bed even if I never believed in anything in the bible, I can still be christian? If you believe in every christian sect than that would mean you believe every explain from each christian sect is correct, even if they contradict themselves. But that would never make sense. Explain to me how this paradox can exist.


By personal religion I am not implying God, I am implying that that is their beliefs. And agnostics can believe in a god, I know a few who hold a deistic agnostic view.

Not every Christian sect refers to the Bible, some believe in new prophets (Like in Mormonism) and some believe in the deification of men (like Catholicism and the Pope/Papacy). Most sects refer to the Bible, but they interpret the messages and verses differently. I personally do not adhere to the teachings of any set denomination and I don't claim to know everything about God (I am still learning an God is still teaching me). Christianity has become an event and not a way of life, I believe that the message of Jesus is not about rituals or churches but about a personal relationship with God through Jesus Christ. Some Christian sects will hold to certain parts of the Bible and ignore others, and some are manipulated by the pride of men. Denominations are things that man makes and tries to apply with the Bible. Where I don't believe that denominations are evil, I do believe that they can be flawed because they are dependent on how a select few people interpret the Bible. Humans are flawed and can interpret an unflawed source fraudulently. The Bible is the direct words of God, denominations are the direct works of theologians (men who apply their theology to church congregations).


Then it would be personal philosophy. If you associate religion with any word you're basically involving a deity/deities.

-Okay, just think about what you said.

Humans are flawed and can interpret an unflawed source fraudulently

You said that the bible itself is the word of God right? Well to recieve the word of God you have to read it and interpret it for yourself right? But you just said that when a few people interpret the bible they can be flawed. But we know that when people come to a collective decision about anything intellectual it's usually better than any of the individual input. So when one person interprets the Bible for him or herself......you figure it out. And then how about when you discuss the same verse with a different person and what they say contradicts what you've read. Then who's right?
-Now if you want a personal relationship with God, then join a monastery asap.
-No rituals? Don't confuse them with stuff like necromancy magic, Jesus himself performed rituals. He did communion with his fellow appostles, which is a ritual believe it or not, and he went through baptism, also a ritual and just some formal right of passage. Nobody came out the same after those things were done.
-No church? Do you not understand the significance of going? In every denomination, including non-denominational, you get to listen to a guy who is smarter than you and knows more about the word of God more than you do!

The Bible is the direct words of God, denominations are the direct works of theologians (men who apply their theology to church congregations)

Okay, so these people who have worked so much harder than you to learn about the word of God and have put in so much years of their life into it, are flawed? If you say that you are implying that you are better than them! Even if you disagree with some of them you have to have a legitamate reason why.


People can come together asa collective believing the same thing, but the thing about denominations is that they have headquarters with people over them. I am not saying it's a bad thing because those places are what support missionaries and help outreach to communities, but I don't like how sometimes the denominations turn corporate and liberal in their thinking and theology (Liberalism in theology is different than political liberalism).

If someone believes something about a verse that contradicts what I believe, I will listen to them and look at other verses in the Bible to either support my claim or change mine. The Bible is the Word's of God inspired by the Holy Spirit. The Same Spirit inspired each book in the Bible. To understand one verse we need to understand the context and if the principal behind it is supported by the Bible. (for instance, issues on whether or not abortion, war, homosexuality, and other issues are supported or condemned by God). I am not implying that I am better than anyone, and I even said that I don't say that I know everything there is to know about God or the Bible. I am still learning and God is still teaching me.


-Dude you skipped a lot of refutes against you. Go back and say something about them.
-What is this liberalism in theology, explain this to me cause I don't know what you're talking about.

If someone believes something about a verse that contradicts what I believe, I will listen to them and look at other verses in the Bible to either support my claim or change mine

-If this is true what's wrong with church? Even Peter had church, he and the apostles started church. Think about going to church like you're going to school for you education. The people who've made the text books make life so much easier for you and you get the information you need in less time than if you tried to discover it all yourself. Then from there you can fine tune it whichever way you like.

To understand one verse we need to understand the context and if the principal behind it is supported by the Bible.

-wow, that's like every christian sect that uses a bible.
-So if you're still learning then you should be so firm that everyone else is wrong because humans are led to error, you are too you know. With the limited knowledge you have you don't have to right to discredit anyone without further evidence, which you haven't given me yet.
-Christians like you are so ignorant and have no idea how they're contradicting themselves. You know how somewhere in the bible it says that even good trees produces bad fruit, the tree being christianity and the fruit being us? Well let's just say some people who think they're such good fruit have never really taken a good look at themselves.
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digs 
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Posted 2/24/09

crunchypibb wrote:


digs wrote:


crunchypibb wrote:


digs wrote:


crunchypibb wrote:


digs wrote:


crunchypibb wrote:


digs wrote:

Power... I think most world religions are based on someone wanting to gain power. Either they create their own beliefs (like suicide cults) or they abuse current ones (Like what Constantine did to Christianity and the Crusades). I believe that religion is only as evil as the individuals who abuse it. Some people formulate a personal "religion" based on their philosophical principals that they find as true or a morality code that they hold as acceptable for them. I believe that there is only One Truth and one True "Religion" (A personal relationship and following the teachings of Jesus the Christ).


-personal religion? Do you know the difference between a religion and a philosophy? Buddhism is often mistaken for a religion when in reality it's just a philosophy towards life.
-One true religion, hmm and i'm guessing that's christianity right? Okay if so, which one?
-As far as "evil" religions go, rule #15 of the internet is so true believe it or not and anything that can be corrupted you can also purify it as well, at least for the base foundations of what it was founded upon so long it didn't have an evil intent in the beginning in my opinion.


By personal religion I mean people who take their philosophies and moral code and use that as their guidelines for life. This can be atheism or agnosticism. Not necessarily a religious sect. And Buddhism is a religion in some sects because they believe in spirits and gods (I think its called Theravada, I may be wrong though). Buddhism apart from the deities is a form of philosophy though.

And yes, by that I do mean Christianity, but I don't adhere to a specific denomination (I am non-denominational and I form my beliefs about God only on what is in the Bible). Of course I believe all who repent in Jesus Name are forgiven and thus become Christians (I do not believe that all denominations are going to hell or that everyone is wrong but me).

And I agree with your last point.


But atheism and agnosticism don't involve a god. By using the term personal religion you imply that there is a god involved. Therefore you are flawed in your own explaination. But ya, it's true that Buddism, depending on what sect you're part of, can either be a religion or philosophy.

Well, every christian sect refers to the bible, so that brings you no where. So if I'm an atheist and ask for Jesus to forgive me on my death bed even if I never believed in anything in the bible, I can still be christian? If you believe in every christian sect than that would mean you believe every explain from each christian sect is correct, even if they contradict themselves. But that would never make sense. Explain to me how this paradox can exist.


By personal religion I am not implying God, I am implying that that is their beliefs. And agnostics can believe in a god, I know a few who hold a deistic agnostic view.

Not every Christian sect refers to the Bible, some believe in new prophets (Like in Mormonism) and some believe in the deification of men (like Catholicism and the Pope/Papacy). Most sects refer to the Bible, but they interpret the messages and verses differently. I personally do not adhere to the teachings of any set denomination and I don't claim to know everything about God (I am still learning an God is still teaching me). Christianity has become an event and not a way of life, I believe that the message of Jesus is not about rituals or churches but about a personal relationship with God through Jesus Christ. Some Christian sects will hold to certain parts of the Bible and ignore others, and some are manipulated by the pride of men. Denominations are things that man makes and tries to apply with the Bible. Where I don't believe that denominations are evil, I do believe that they can be flawed because they are dependent on how a select few people interpret the Bible. Humans are flawed and can interpret an unflawed source fraudulently. The Bible is the direct words of God, denominations are the direct works of theologians (men who apply their theology to church congregations).


Then it would be personal philosophy. If you associate religion with any word you're basically involving a deity/deities.

-Okay, just think about what you said.

Humans are flawed and can interpret an unflawed source fraudulently

You said that the bible itself is the word of God right? Well to recieve the word of God you have to read it and interpret it for yourself right? But you just said that when a few people interpret the bible they can be flawed. But we know that when people come to a collective decision about anything intellectual it's usually better than any of the individual input. So when one person interprets the Bible for him or herself......you figure it out. And then how about when you discuss the same verse with a different person and what they say contradicts what you've read. Then who's right?
-Now if you want a personal relationship with God, then join a monastery asap.
-No rituals? Don't confuse them with stuff like necromancy magic, Jesus himself performed rituals. He did communion with his fellow appostles, which is a ritual believe it or not, and he went through baptism, also a ritual and just some formal right of passage. Nobody came out the same after those things were done.
-No church? Do you not understand the significance of going? In every denomination, including non-denominational, you get to listen to a guy who is smarter than you and knows more about the word of God more than you do!

The Bible is the direct words of God, denominations are the direct works of theologians (men who apply their theology to church congregations)

Okay, so these people who have worked so much harder than you to learn about the word of God and have put in so much years of their life into it, are flawed? If you say that you are implying that you are better than them! Even if you disagree with some of them you have to have a legitamate reason why.


People can come together asa collective believing the same thing, but the thing about denominations is that they have headquarters with people over them. I am not saying it's a bad thing because those places are what support missionaries and help outreach to communities, but I don't like how sometimes the denominations turn corporate and liberal in their thinking and theology (Liberalism in theology is different than political liberalism).

If someone believes something about a verse that contradicts what I believe, I will listen to them and look at other verses in the Bible to either support my claim or change mine. The Bible is the Word's of God inspired by the Holy Spirit. The Same Spirit inspired each book in the Bible. To understand one verse we need to understand the context and if the principal behind it is supported by the Bible. (for instance, issues on whether or not abortion, war, homosexuality, and other issues are supported or condemned by God). I am not implying that I am better than anyone, and I even said that I don't say that I know everything there is to know about God or the Bible. I am still learning and God is still teaching me.


-Dude you skipped a lot of refutes against you. Go back and say something about them.
-What is this liberalism in theology, explain this to me cause I don't know what you're talking about.

If someone believes something about a verse that contradicts what I believe, I will listen to them and look at other verses in the Bible to either support my claim or change mine

-If this is true what's wrong with church? Even Peter had church, he and the apostles started church. Think about going to church like you're going to school for you education. The people who've made the text books make life so much easier for you and you get the information you need in less time than if you tried to discover it all yourself. Then from there you can fine tune it whichever way you like.

To understand one verse we need to understand the context and if the principal behind it is supported by the Bible.

-wow, that's like every christian sect that uses a bible.
-So if you're still learning then you should be so firm that everyone else is wrong because humans are led to error, you are too you know. With the limited knowledge you have you don't have to right to discredit anyone without further evidence, which you haven't given me yet.
-Christians like you are so ignorant and have no idea how they're contradicting themselves. You know how somewhere in the bible it says that even good trees produces bad fruit, the tree being christianity and the fruit being us? Well let's just say some people who think they're such good fruit have never really taken a good look at themselves.


I didn't find anything that I didn't address. If there is something you still have questions about please let me know

Liberal theology is theology that loosely defines salvation, allows sin, tends to have more of a secular or pantheistic view of God, and they tend to stray away from the Bible.

Church is the way you described it, but its existence isn't solely for educating Christians. The early church in the Bible was a place of community and outreach. The church is the Body of Christ (The Family of God). Church is supposed to educate, encourage, meet needs, and reach out to the community. I am not saying that theology is bad or that Biblical scholars are evil or bad. I think it is good to read and listen to what others have compiled and apply it to your beliefs and then find the Truth based on critical thinking and the Holy Spirit guiding your spiritual education.

I am not being firm and saying that everyone else is wrong, I have said twice now that I don't claim to know everything and that I am still learning. I do believe some theology to be false because Scripture contradicts it (like the prosperity gospel, everyone goes to heaven gospel, etc...). I am not critiquing Christian theology and interjecting my beliefs. I am not arguing against denominations and their theologies. I am still learning, I have only been a Christian for a little over a year now. I have my beliefs that I hold as true, but I don't claim to be a theologian or Biblical scholar. And what evidence do you want? You aren't really presenting me with Christian theology that you want me to refute, so I don't understand what evidence you want (assuming you are talking about Christian theology).

How am I contradicting myself? And the Bible never says that "good trees produce bad fruit." On the contrary Luk 6:43 "No good tree bears bad fruit, nor does a bad tree bear good fruit. When the Bible talks about trees bearing fruit, most of the time it is talking about individuals as trees and the fruit as our actions. Not all metaphors regarding trees follow this pattern (Jesus uses an example of him being a Tree and Christians being the branches).
Posted 2/24/09

crunchypibb wrote:


superninjaboy wrote:


crunchypibb wrote:


Joe_003 wrote:

If you think about the Protestant split, its all because someone wanted something done differently, and they wanted it done "legitametly". That king (what's his name again?) just wanted a divorce, but the Catholic church wouldn't let him. So he went about creating his own branch of Christianity to have his way. I can't say for certain, but I imagine all these new religions that i haven't heard of operate in the same kind of way. People are just so desperate to be able to do whatever crazy things they want (like those suicide cults, for example) under the disguise of a religion. They want to make it more acceptable, is what I'm trying to say.

As for the "discovering a new religion part," that's probably because people are born into religions, and once they realize what they truly believe, they convert. Or just to be able to marry someone who is very religious, and unwilling to convert or abandon their religion.


You think there's a lot of christian branches of religion, just look into Hinduism.


The whole idea of religion itself comes from one single root, Jesus was not the first mythical figure to go through the whole life-death-rebirth thing, there were a few others that existed before Christ and Christianity came about, and they all seem to have similar themes in regards to having most of the staples of what is written in the bible. (Virgin birth, son of god, his death and then resurrection, and of course an eventual apocalypse). I view religion and all its branches as intellectual bondage, holding humanity back and creating a more dangerous world. If anything should be worshiped or praised it is the sun,moon and stars which truly gave us life. I know I will not see a world free of "bad religion" in my lifetime and believe it will take a self fulfilled prophecy to bring us back onto a more level plane in terms of what we consider to be fact and fiction and how fickle certain beliefs are.


-I suppose that's an easy reason to doubt religion. But you seem to be so very general in the first part of you statement, I have heard of stuff like that in other religions but you can point out which ones?
-Exactly how is religion holding people back? Be more specific.
-We don't worship the sun, the moon, or the stars because they're not recognized as conscious metaphysical beings. Although you can do that on your own time for all I care.
-What exactly is bad religion, you've been so blantent in this whole response and what kind of evidence makes you think that we'd be going backwards? I mean if you're going to bash all the religions at once at least be specific. I can give a response on why an atheistic belief overall doesn't help people in the longrun much better than what you just gave me.


-There is India's Krishna (1,000 years before Christ), The Persians Mithra (600 years before Christ) and Horus son of Osiris (1280 B.C.)

- Religion (Well most anyways), hold back the rights of women and gays and in some cases people of color, cause wars and view some helpful sciences as bad.

-I mainly meant the sun, moon and stars should be praised not truly worshiped, since they hold more answers than any religious text ever could.


-As for what "bad religion" is, it is the stuff pushed by greedy persons like Pat Robertson, John Hagee, and a host of other Evengelical leaders that preach money is the answer and Jesus has republican values.I would view their religion in a better light if these so called middlemen for god practiced what Jesus preached which was giving back to the people and teaching the wrongs of hoarding wealth, and maybe fighting the capitalistic system they so enjoy and take advantage of(The gap between rich and poor keeps growing and growing) . Then there is the Vatican and all of its controversy with it's policy on child molestation and them accepting a holocaust denier into their ranks and the fact the pope preaches about poverty from his lavish palace of stone. Then there is Islam which has many of the same pitfalls mentioned above. I think religion could be a good thing but the wrong people have too much say in what should be practiced and how certain issues should be dealt with creating a bad image for those who do worship and practice said teachings in a sensible manner, I see religion as a great idea gone bad. And yes Atheism is not the perfect system either (The idea itself is turning into what it hates), I would like to see a more agnostic world with no religion holding sway over our political leaders actions or decision making process.
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Darkphoenix3450 wrote:


Joe_003 wrote:

If you think about the Protestant split, its all because someone wanted something done differently, and they wanted it done "legitametly". That king (what's his name again?) just wanted a divorce, but the Catholic church wouldn't let him. So he went about creating his own branch of Christianity to have his way. I can't say for certain, but I imagine all these new religions that i haven't heard of operate in the same kind of way. People are just so desperate to be able to do whatever crazy things they want (like those suicide cults, for example) under the disguise of a religion. They want to make it more acceptable, is what I'm trying to say.

As for the "discovering a new religion part," that's probably because people are born into religions, and once they realize what they truly believe, they convert. Or just to be able to marry someone who is very religious, and unwilling to convert or abandon their religion.


Did you know Christianity it self Derived from many Pagan Religoins put together. AT that Christianity could be counted as a cult/bastard Child of the pagan religions, that over time got bigger than its pops.



created from pagan religions? what are u talking about? Christianity is based off of Judaism, and the teachings of Jesus that he creates, redefines, and fixes.
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digs wrote:


crunchypibb wrote:


digs wrote:


crunchypibb wrote:


digs wrote:


crunchypibb wrote:


digs wrote:


crunchypibb wrote:


digs wrote:

Power... I think most world religions are based on someone wanting to gain power. Either they create their own beliefs (like suicide cults) or they abuse current ones (Like what Constantine did to Christianity and the Crusades). I believe that religion is only as evil as the individuals who abuse it. Some people formulate a personal "religion" based on their philosophical principals that they find as true or a morality code that they hold as acceptable for them. I believe that there is only One Truth and one True "Religion" (A personal relationship and following the teachings of Jesus the Christ).


-personal religion? Do you know the difference between a religion and a philosophy? Buddhism is often mistaken for a religion when in reality it's just a philosophy towards life.
-One true religion, hmm and i'm guessing that's christianity right? Okay if so, which one?
-As far as "evil" religions go, rule #15 of the internet is so true believe it or not and anything that can be corrupted you can also purify it as well, at least for the base foundations of what it was founded upon so long it didn't have an evil intent in the beginning in my opinion.


By personal religion I mean people who take their philosophies and moral code and use that as their guidelines for life. This can be atheism or agnosticism. Not necessarily a religious sect. And Buddhism is a religion in some sects because they believe in spirits and gods (I think its called Theravada, I may be wrong though). Buddhism apart from the deities is a form of philosophy though.

And yes, by that I do mean Christianity, but I don't adhere to a specific denomination (I am non-denominational and I form my beliefs about God only on what is in the Bible). Of course I believe all who repent in Jesus Name are forgiven and thus become Christians (I do not believe that all denominations are going to hell or that everyone is wrong but me).

And I agree with your last point.


But atheism and agnosticism don't involve a god. By using the term personal religion you imply that there is a god involved. Therefore you are flawed in your own explaination. But ya, it's true that Buddism, depending on what sect you're part of, can either be a religion or philosophy.

Well, every christian sect refers to the bible, so that brings you no where. So if I'm an atheist and ask for Jesus to forgive me on my death bed even if I never believed in anything in the bible, I can still be christian? If you believe in every christian sect than that would mean you believe every explain from each christian sect is correct, even if they contradict themselves. But that would never make sense. Explain to me how this paradox can exist.


By personal religion I am not implying God, I am implying that that is their beliefs. And agnostics can believe in a god, I know a few who hold a deistic agnostic view.

Not every Christian sect refers to the Bible, some believe in new prophets (Like in Mormonism) and some believe in the deification of men (like Catholicism and the Pope/Papacy). Most sects refer to the Bible, but they interpret the messages and verses differently. I personally do not adhere to the teachings of any set denomination and I don't claim to know everything about God (I am still learning an God is still teaching me). Christianity has become an event and not a way of life, I believe that the message of Jesus is not about rituals or churches but about a personal relationship with God through Jesus Christ. Some Christian sects will hold to certain parts of the Bible and ignore others, and some are manipulated by the pride of men. Denominations are things that man makes and tries to apply with the Bible. Where I don't believe that denominations are evil, I do believe that they can be flawed because they are dependent on how a select few people interpret the Bible. Humans are flawed and can interpret an unflawed source fraudulently. The Bible is the direct words of God, denominations are the direct works of theologians (men who apply their theology to church congregations).


Then it would be personal philosophy. If you associate religion with any word you're basically involving a deity/deities.

-Okay, just think about what you said.

Humans are flawed and can interpret an unflawed source fraudulently

You said that the bible itself is the word of God right? Well to recieve the word of God you have to read it and interpret it for yourself right? But you just said that when a few people interpret the bible they can be flawed. But we know that when people come to a collective decision about anything intellectual it's usually better than any of the individual input. So when one person interprets the Bible for him or herself......you figure it out. And then how about when you discuss the same verse with a different person and what they say contradicts what you've read. Then who's right?
-Now if you want a personal relationship with God, then join a monastery asap.
-No rituals? Don't confuse them with stuff like necromancy magic, Jesus himself performed rituals. He did communion with his fellow appostles, which is a ritual believe it or not, and he went through baptism, also a ritual and just some formal right of passage. Nobody came out the same after those things were done.
-No church? Do you not understand the significance of going? In every denomination, including non-denominational, you get to listen to a guy who is smarter than you and knows more about the word of God more than you do!

The Bible is the direct words of God, denominations are the direct works of theologians (men who apply their theology to church congregations)

Okay, so these people who have worked so much harder than you to learn about the word of God and have put in so much years of their life into it, are flawed? If you say that you are implying that you are better than them! Even if you disagree with some of them you have to have a legitamate reason why.


People can come together asa collective believing the same thing, but the thing about denominations is that they have headquarters with people over them. I am not saying it's a bad thing because those places are what support missionaries and help outreach to communities, but I don't like how sometimes the denominations turn corporate and liberal in their thinking and theology (Liberalism in theology is different than political liberalism).

If someone believes something about a verse that contradicts what I believe, I will listen to them and look at other verses in the Bible to either support my claim or change mine. The Bible is the Word's of God inspired by the Holy Spirit. The Same Spirit inspired each book in the Bible. To understand one verse we need to understand the context and if the principal behind it is supported by the Bible. (for instance, issues on whether or not abortion, war, homosexuality, and other issues are supported or condemned by God). I am not implying that I am better than anyone, and I even said that I don't say that I know everything there is to know about God or the Bible. I am still learning and God is still teaching me.


-Dude you skipped a lot of refutes against you. Go back and say something about them.
-What is this liberalism in theology, explain this to me cause I don't know what you're talking about.

If someone believes something about a verse that contradicts what I believe, I will listen to them and look at other verses in the Bible to either support my claim or change mine

-If this is true what's wrong with church? Even Peter had church, he and the apostles started church. Think about going to church like you're going to school for you education. The people who've made the text books make life so much easier for you and you get the information you need in less time than if you tried to discover it all yourself. Then from there you can fine tune it whichever way you like.

To understand one verse we need to understand the context and if the principal behind it is supported by the Bible.

-wow, that's like every christian sect that uses a bible.
-So if you're still learning then you should be so firm that everyone else is wrong because humans are led to error, you are too you know. With the limited knowledge you have you don't have to right to discredit anyone without further evidence, which you haven't given me yet.
-Christians like you are so ignorant and have no idea how they're contradicting themselves. You know how somewhere in the bible it says that even good trees produces bad fruit, the tree being christianity and the fruit being us? Well let's just say some people who think they're such good fruit have never really taken a good look at themselves.


I didn't find anything that I didn't address. If there is something you still have questions about please let me know

Liberal theology is theology that loosely defines salvation, allows sin, tends to have more of a secular or pantheistic view of God, and they tend to stray away from the Bible.

Church is the way you described it, but its existence isn't solely for educating Christians. The early church in the Bible was a place of community and outreach. The church is the Body of Christ (The Family of God). Church is supposed to educate, encourage, meet needs, and reach out to the community. I am not saying that theology is bad or that Biblical scholars are evil or bad. I think it is good to read and listen to what others have compiled and apply it to your beliefs and then find the Truth based on critical thinking and the Holy Spirit guiding your spiritual education.

I am not being firm and saying that everyone else is wrong, I have said twice now that I don't claim to know everything and that I am still learning. I do believe some theology to be false because Scripture contradicts it (like the prosperity gospel, everyone goes to heaven gospel, etc...). I am not critiquing Christian theology and interjecting my beliefs. I am not arguing against denominations and their theologies. I am still learning, I have only been a Christian for a little over a year now. I have my beliefs that I hold as true, but I don't claim to be a theologian or Biblical scholar. And what evidence do you want? You aren't really presenting me with Christian theology that you want me to refute, so I don't understand what evidence you want (assuming you are talking about Christian theology).

How am I contradicting myself? And the Bible never says that "good trees produce bad fruit." On the contrary Luk 6:43 "No good tree bears bad fruit, nor does a bad tree bear good fruit. When the Bible talks about trees bearing fruit, most of the time it is talking about individuals as trees and the fruit as our actions. Not all metaphors regarding trees follow this pattern (Jesus uses an example of him being a Tree and Christians being the branches).


-I will put the stuff you didn't have a word on in red for you.
-Can you give me examples of liberal theology and cite who said it?
-Of course there are crumbs from the table for the dogs to feed on, as a whole people who aren't christians go to church on occassion. I've seen an atheist go to church once just to see what it was like.

I am not saying that theology is bad or that Biblical scholars are evil or bad

you kind of already did

I personally do not adhere to the teachings of any set denomination....The Bible is the direct words of God, denominations are the direct works of theologians.

Bible scholars=theologians

I think it is good to read and listen to what others have compiled and apply it to your beliefs and then find the Truth based on critical thinking and the Holy Spirit guiding your spiritual education.

If this is true then there is no reason for you to refute church.

Christianity has become an event and not a way of life, I believe that the message of Jesus is not about rituals or churches but about a personal relationship with God through Jesus Christ.

When you think about it church is kind of part of your life if you want to get closer to God. And partaking in the Eucharist is a ritual like said before. A lot of what you refute is just outright unsupported.

I am not being firm and saying that everyone else is wrong, I have said twice now that I don't claim to know everything and that I am still learning.

Then you have basically no rights in saying all of what you've criticized above. And if it's an opinion make it obvious and state that it is in quite an opinion, which sucks btw.
-I said even good trees produce bad fruit, not that good trees only produce bad fruit, that makes no empirical sense. You might want to look further in the bible, that's not the only place it talks about trees. Also consider the bible that you've got in your hands. I even heard that there was a unicorn in one bible. I'm pretty sure I heard it somewhere.
-But on that tree subject let's look at it this way, the church, all of christianity, is the tree and christians are the fruit. I know it says somewhere in the bible that, paraphrasing, that not all who proclaim in Jesus's name will go to heaven, (or true christian either). That's what I was getting at. I'm not so much of a text book reciter, I just apply the learnings that I get from the word of God.
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superninjaboy wrote:
Religion (Well most anyways), hold back the rights of women and gays and in some cases people of color, cause wars and view some helpful sciences as bad.

I suppose there are some corrupt religions but as far as descrimination goes animals themselves seem to do it as well. Like in primate species the males are usually dominant. A lot of that secular stuff has been tied into religion. However like in the christian bible, Mary the mother Jesus took a very important role, raising up Jesus to be the man that he was. Even though her duty was not similar to that of a male, she did in fact take an important role which many have overlooked.

I mainly meant the sun, moon and stars should be praised not truly worshiped, since they hold more answers than any religious text ever could.

Are you saying astrology is the way to go? Good luck with that.

As for what "bad religion" is, it is the stuff pushed by greedy persons like Pat Robertson, John Hagee, and a host of other Evengelical leaders that preach money is the answer and Jesus has republican values.I would view their religion in a better light if these so called middlemen for god practiced what Jesus preached which was giving back to the people and teaching the wrongs of hoarding wealth, and maybe fighting the capitalistic system they so enjoy and take advantage of(The gap between rich and poor keeps growing and growing) .

True that. That kind of preaching is really farfetched from what I see.

Then there is the Vatican and all of its controversy with it's policy on child molestation and them accepting a holocaust denier into their ranks and the fact the pope preaches about poverty from his lavish palace of stone.

Don't know much on that first part, if you're refering to that incident where that American priest molested that kid that really wasn't acceptable and had nothing to do with what the church believed. What does denying the holocaust have to do with teaching theology? It's not like he slept with Monika Lewinsky.
Dude, most of what's in that building is from donations. Plus what kind of capital, it being the catholic capital, isn't big and fancy? I'm pretty sure there's a reason as how the Vatican became fancy over the years. And if you're all up against it then you should just go homeless to prove it. Anyways they've got a lot of stuff stored in there, and it would suck if the place they congregated in looked like shit. It would psychologically devestating. Just imagine having a meeting out in a ghetto, you wouldn't get the kind of progress you wanted. Anyways there are people who go out there and do the poor work, like Mother Teresa. But what she does if different, she attends to the poor while the people in the vatican try to understand more of the specifics in theology.

Then there is Islam which has many of the same pitfalls mentioned above. I think religion could be a good thing but the wrong people have too much say in what should be practiced and how certain issues should be dealt with creating a bad image for those who do worship and practice said teachings in a sensible manner, I see religion as a great idea gone bad. And yes Atheism is not the perfect system either (The idea itself is turning into what it hates),

Religion being portrayed badly is the people's fault. Doesn't mean you should refute the religion itself that they're trying to preach, although everyone has the right refute on what and how they're preaching.

I would like to see a more agnostic world with no religion holding sway over our political leaders actions or decision making process.

And what's your hypothesis on how this is going to make the world a better place. Surely there would be less restrictions but that doesn't mean eliminating religion is going to solve all the desputes in the government or even in people's beliefs.
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here is a link that may help define liberal theology http://www.gotquestions.org/liberal-Christian-theology.html

You seem to think that I am attacking church, which is not what I am trying to do. Church is important and is good, but I think in America the church has changed from what it should be. When I mean "Christianity has become an event" I think of people who think "As long as I go to church and was baptized I'm all set for heaven." Mainly, Christianity has become a way to die for some, not necessarily a way to live. People may say they are Christian yet they find no problem with premarital sex, drugs, or any other sin they feel like doing.

What I mean in the statements you quoted me on is this. I personally do not adhere to a denomination because they all tend to become corporate and are set in their ways. There is no room for correction because they are set and don't want to be corrected. There are a lot of Christian denominations out there, and no particular one believes everything that I do. For instance, I will use the Presbyterian denomination as an example. One may go to a Presbyterian Church and believe Presbyterian theology, but the times they disagree with the teachings of their church is when they do not hold Presbyterian stances. I don't label myself in any denomination because again, no particular one believes all that I believe. Therefore I say that I am non-denominational. Now to clarify again. My main problem with denominations is that they hardly change their stances. There are a lot, they all believe different things. The Presbyterian think they have it right, the Methodists think they do, etc... The fact is, is that there is only One Truth, and denominations tend to stick in their ways and not listen to Biblical arguments. They have their reasons to believe what they want, so they believe it.

Church is apart of my life, I am not arguing that church is bad. I go to church weekly and I even work in my friends church. God's calling for my life is to serve in youth ministry which is an aspect of church. I personally don't hate people of denominations, and I feel its important for all born again Christians regardless of denominations to unite for the goal of reaching out to the communities of the world and showing Christ's Love.

With the last quote you quoted me on. I am not claiming to have full knowledge of God. For instance, I am still trying to find the answer to whether or not one can loose their salvation and where baptism comes in. What I am saying is that I do not claim to know all the answers and I am open to Christian ideas and theology that fits within the Bible. I have read the Bible completely and I am still reading it to better understand God and know Truth. Just because I do not claim to know everything about God does not mean that I can't have an opinion or beliefs regarding some things. What it means is that I am still learning. Therefore, this being said I do not feel like I can properly debate if one can loose their salvation because I do not know the answer yet. However, I do know that Jesus is the Son of God, and I will argue for that. I can't properly argue or take a position on something that I do not understand.

About trees, you were citing a specific example.

You know how somewhere in the bible it says that even good trees produces bad fruit, the tree being christianity and the fruit being us?
I was thinking the spot in the Bible you were talking about was the verses that I posted. After reading your last part I understand what part of the Bible you are talking about. There is a lengthy part in Romans where the Holy Spirit says that Christ is the Tree, and that we are the branches who are ingrafted into Christ (the Tree). It also says that the branches that fall off are dead and thrown into the fire. Also, Jesus does say that not all who say that He is Lord will enter heaven because they have not truly repented of their sins. If this isn't the part of the Bible you are talking about please let me know.


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Posted 2/25/09

crunchypibb wrote:


superninjaboy wrote:
Religion (Well most anyways), hold back the rights of women and gays and in some cases people of color, cause wars and view some helpful sciences as bad.

I suppose there are some corrupt religions but as far as descrimination goes animals themselves seem to do it as well. Like in primate species the males are usually dominant. A lot of that secular stuff has been tied into religion. However like in the christian bible, Mary the mother Jesus took a very important role, raising up Jesus to be the man that he was. Even though her duty was not similar to that of a male, she did in fact take an important role which many have overlooked.

I mainly meant the sun, moon and stars should be praised not truly worshiped, since they hold more answers than any religious text ever could.

Are you saying astrology is the way to go? Good luck with that.

As for what "bad religion" is, it is the stuff pushed by greedy persons like Pat Robertson, John Hagee, and a host of other Evengelical leaders that preach money is the answer and Jesus has republican values.I would view their religion in a better light if these so called middlemen for god practiced what Jesus preached which was giving back to the people and teaching the wrongs of hoarding wealth, and maybe fighting the capitalistic system they so enjoy and take advantage of(The gap between rich and poor keeps growing and growing) .

True that. That kind of preaching is really farfetched from what I see.

Then there is the Vatican and all of its controversy with it's policy on child molestation and them accepting a holocaust denier into their ranks and the fact the pope preaches about poverty from his lavish palace of stone.

Don't know much on that first part, if you're refering to that incident where that American priest molested that kid that really wasn't acceptable and had nothing to do with what the church believed. What does denying the holocaust have to do with teaching theology? It's not like he slept with Monika Lewinsky.
Dude, most of what's in that building is from donations. Plus what kind of capital, it being the catholic capital, isn't big and fancy? I'm pretty sure there's a reason as how the Vatican became fancy over the years. And if you're all up against it then you should just go homeless to prove it. Anyways they've got a lot of stuff stored in there, and it would suck if the place they congregated in looked like shit. It would psychologically devestating. Just imagine having a meeting out in a ghetto, you wouldn't get the kind of progress you wanted. Anyways there are people who go out there and do the poor work, like Mother Teresa. But what she does if different, she attends to the poor while the people in the vatican try to understand more of the specifics in theology.

Then there is Islam which has many of the same pitfalls mentioned above. I think religion could be a good thing but the wrong people have too much say in what should be practiced and how certain issues should be dealt with creating a bad image for those who do worship and practice said teachings in a sensible manner, I see religion as a great idea gone bad. And yes Atheism is not the perfect system either (The idea itself is turning into what it hates),

Religion being portrayed badly is the people's fault. Doesn't mean you should refute the religion itself that they're trying to preach, although everyone has the right refute on what and how they're preaching.

I would like to see a more agnostic world with no religion holding sway over our political leaders actions or decision making process.

And what's your hypothesis on how this is going to make the world a better place. Surely there would be less restrictions but that doesn't mean eliminating religion is going to solve all the desputes in the government or even in people's beliefs.


Not astrology but rather going out into the darkness and exploring the uncharted seas and planets of the universe.
I agree with you on the Vatican now that I see it through your perspective.
And my hypothesis on how an agnostic world would be better, needs not only the toning down of blind faith that inspires dangerous self fulfilling prophecy, but also the deconstruction of many of the institutions we hold sacred, capitalism because too few people have a say in how our money is handled and it just seems to lock people into inescapable debt and the fact there are corporations out there that are as rich as nations. The end of reliance on oil and moving towards using the infinite power of the sun,wind and tidal waves which could provide power to all in the world without having to drill to heat our homes and fill our cars, that and the environment would be better off for it (Much better off), also a very enormous cash flow towards technology which would make life a little easier for all involved, and last but not least since we have enough resources to do so, provide housing for everyone on the planet along with the means to feed their families which might just end a lot of the fighting going on in the world today. My vision is a bit out there and dreamy but I find it much better to think of the possibilities of humanity than to accept things as they are, the current system in my mind just turns us all into drones that must work (In some cases insane hours) to live and if you fall behind chances are you have a tough climb back up the mountain and sometimes it was not you who fell but were rather pushed by higher forces trying to keep to their bottom line.
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superninjaboy wrote:
Not astrology but rather going out into the darkness and exploring the uncharted seas and planets of the universe.


So then astronomy? You're not going to learn everything about humanity from just emperical evidence.


And my hypothesis on how an agnostic world would be better, needs not only the toning down of blind faith that inspires dangerous self fulfilling prophecy,

Ya I know I wish that blind faith was gone too. People seem to associate blind faith as the same as faith. From a theoretical perspective blind faith has no evidence, not even evidence exclusive to the person, it's just an inspiration really.


but also the deconstruction of many of the institutions we hold sacred, capitalism because too few people have a say in how our money is handled and it just seems to lock people into inescapable debt and the fact there are corporations out there that are as rich as nations.

And you have a better idea of government that would work? They all have their flaws but what does that have to do with religion?


The end of reliance on oil and moving towards using the infinite power of the sun,wind and tidal waves which could provide power to all in the world without having to drill to heat our homes and fill our cars, that and the environment would be better off for it (Much better off)

This is happening but this is a work in progress. We do have people using alternative energy and energy efficient appliance but the transition is taking a while


also a very enormous cash flow towards technology which would make life a little easier for all involved

You have to realize technology isn't the only priority on the budget and not even close to the top. Private corperations take care of the cash flow for technology so don't complain about the speed. You can increase cash flow but you can't increase the rate people create innovative new technology as easily.


and last but not least since we have enough resources to do so, provide housing for everyone on the planet along with the means to feed their families which might just end a lot of the fighting going on in the world today.

World peace? My that does sound nice, but the American government is in no position to do that. Again there are private organizations doing that but you never here about them and the rate that they work is steady yet slow. If you're complaining about this go find an organization like that and join them and stop complaining.


My vision is a bit out there and dreamy but I find it much better to think of the possibilities of humanity than to accept things as they are, the current system in my mind just turns us all into drones that must work (In some cases insane hours) to live and if you fall behind chances are you have a tough climb back up the mountain and sometimes it was not you who fell but were rather pushed by higher forces trying to keep to their bottom line.

Dude, somebody has to do the grunt work. Competition is inevitable and if you get pushed it's either because circumstances weren't in your favor or you just plain suck and need improvement. Wtf does this all have to do with religion?
Posted 2/25/09

crunchypibb wrote:


superninjaboy wrote:
Not astrology but rather going out into the darkness and exploring the uncharted seas and planets of the universe.


So then astronomy? You're not going to learn everything about humanity from just emperical evidence.


And my hypothesis on how an agnostic world would be better, needs not only the toning down of blind faith that inspires dangerous self fulfilling prophecy,

Ya I know I wish that blind faith was gone too. People seem to associate blind faith as the same as faith. From a theoretical perspective blind faith has no evidence, not even evidence exclusive to the person, it's just an inspiration really.


but also the deconstruction of many of the institutions we hold sacred, capitalism because too few people have a say in how our money is handled and it just seems to lock people into inescapable debt and the fact there are corporations out there that are as rich as nations.

And you have a better idea of government that would work? They all have their flaws but what does that have to do with religion?


The end of reliance on oil and moving towards using the infinite power of the sun,wind and tidal waves which could provide power to all in the world without having to drill to heat our homes and fill our cars, that and the environment would be better off for it (Much better off)

This is happening but this is a work in progress. We do have people using alternative energy and energy efficient appliance but the transition is taking a while


also a very enormous cash flow towards technology which would make life a little easier for all involved

You have to realize technology isn't the only priority on the budget and not even close to the top. Private corperations take care of the cash flow for technology so don't complain about the speed. You can increase cash flow but you can't increase the rate people create innovative new technology as easily.


and last but not least since we have enough resources to do so, provide housing for everyone on the planet along with the means to feed their families which might just end a lot of the fighting going on in the world today.

World peace? My that does sound nice, but the American government is in no position to do that. Again there are private organizations doing that but you never here about them and the rate that they work is steady yet slow. If you're complaining about this go find an organization like that and join them and stop complaining.


My vision is a bit out there and dreamy but I find it much better to think of the possibilities of humanity than to accept things as they are, the current system in my mind just turns us all into drones that must work (In some cases insane hours) to live and if you fall behind chances are you have a tough climb back up the mountain and sometimes it was not you who fell but were rather pushed by higher forces trying to keep to their bottom line.

Dude, somebody has to do the grunt work. Competition is inevitable and if you get pushed it's either because circumstances weren't in your favor or you just plain suck and need improvement. Wtf does this all have to do with religion?


Nothing to really do with religion, just got off topic. My bad.
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Posted 2/25/09

superninjaboy wrote:


crunchypibb wrote:


superninjaboy wrote:
Not astrology but rather going out into the darkness and exploring the uncharted seas and planets of the universe.


So then astronomy? You're not going to learn everything about humanity from just emperical evidence.


And my hypothesis on how an agnostic world would be better, needs not only the toning down of blind faith that inspires dangerous self fulfilling prophecy,

Ya I know I wish that blind faith was gone too. People seem to associate blind faith as the same as faith. From a theoretical perspective blind faith has no evidence, not even evidence exclusive to the person, it's just an inspiration really.


but also the deconstruction of many of the institutions we hold sacred, capitalism because too few people have a say in how our money is handled and it just seems to lock people into inescapable debt and the fact there are corporations out there that are as rich as nations.

And you have a better idea of government that would work? They all have their flaws but what does that have to do with religion?


The end of reliance on oil and moving towards using the infinite power of the sun,wind and tidal waves which could provide power to all in the world without having to drill to heat our homes and fill our cars, that and the environment would be better off for it (Much better off)

This is happening but this is a work in progress. We do have people using alternative energy and energy efficient appliance but the transition is taking a while


also a very enormous cash flow towards technology which would make life a little easier for all involved

You have to realize technology isn't the only priority on the budget and not even close to the top. Private corperations take care of the cash flow for technology so don't complain about the speed. You can increase cash flow but you can't increase the rate people create innovative new technology as easily.


and last but not least since we have enough resources to do so, provide housing for everyone on the planet along with the means to feed their families which might just end a lot of the fighting going on in the world today.

World peace? My that does sound nice, but the American government is in no position to do that. Again there are private organizations doing that but you never here about them and the rate that they work is steady yet slow. If you're complaining about this go find an organization like that and join them and stop complaining.


My vision is a bit out there and dreamy but I find it much better to think of the possibilities of humanity than to accept things as they are, the current system in my mind just turns us all into drones that must work (In some cases insane hours) to live and if you fall behind chances are you have a tough climb back up the mountain and sometimes it was not you who fell but were rather pushed by higher forces trying to keep to their bottom line.

Dude, somebody has to do the grunt work. Competition is inevitable and if you get pushed it's either because circumstances weren't in your favor or you just plain suck and need improvement. Wtf does this all have to do with religion?


Nothing to really do with religion, just got off topic. My bad.


What a waste :/
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Posted 3/17/09 , edited 3/17/09

Joe_003 wrote:



What? It's not even decided if there is one god, multiple gods, or on god? That's pretty... open ended. I've always though tof the Christian divisions as the same thing with some tweaks, such as whether or not the Eucharist is a symbol of Jesus or if it is literaly Jesus' body.

the diversity between christian secs have some basic similiarities and fundamental beliefs, but the differences can be drastic. Like the Mormins and guys who practice ployligamy. and the Ku klux klan. All the same religion, just very different ways of aproaching and interpretating the Bible. Jahova wittnesses r also a good example.and those guys who stand at fenerals of soldiers and spit at the casket because they believe the USA is going to hell because of soldiers...or something like that...


Edit; yea, my thread has really digressed. i meant to discuss "new religions" and why they came to be.But everyone here is stuck on Christianity, which isnt really all that new. you all have some very strong arguments, but they really arent appropiate for this topic.
peace over war

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