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Obama's Presidency
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31 / F / Wilson, NC
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Posted 2/26/09
At least he's trying to fix Bush's mistakes, he trying to help America avoid another Depression.
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26 / M / Cloud 9.
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Posted 2/26/09

Shamela24 wrote:

At least he's trying to fix Bush's mistakes, he trying to help America avoid another Depression.


We're in a depression already. His stimulus bill is not going to get us out of it, it's going to keep us in it. I already provided the facts of the stimulus bill, good and bad, and you guys still think it's going to help. How about reading something rather than repeating what CNN tells you.
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31 / F / Wilson, NC
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Posted 2/26/09

spensaur wrote:


Shamela24 wrote:

At least he's trying to fix Bush's mistakes, he trying to help America avoid another Depression.


We're in a depression already. His stimulus bill is not going to get us out of it, it's going to keep us in it. I already provided the facts of the stimulus bill, good and bad, and you guys still think it's going to help. How about reading something rather than repeating what CNN tells you.


I'm not saying what he's doing is perfect, but at least he's trying to make America better for ALL people. Bush made the mess, and he have to clean it up, which will probably take his whole term in office to do it. You have to spend money to make money.
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26 / M / Cloud 9.
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Posted 2/26/09
No one can be perfect, and i'm not saying we should have someone that is perfect. I'm merely saying that he's dooming society in his first month of presidency by putting the money in the wrong places. The stimulus bill is just in general not a good idea, i really don't think it's ALL bush's fault, granted he didn't do that great of a job. It's also the bank's fault and society, we're really dumb and were spending money we never had and could never pay for. All in all, it's not off to a good start.
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23 / M / Singapore
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Posted 2/26/09
If he can prove us on turning the economy around, then we like him. And get the troops both of Iraq and Afghanistan is another thng, adding 10,000 plus more troops wont help the situation but worsen just what it happen in Iraq.

Ron Paul on Glen Beck 2-24-09
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTCNiOlaYYc

History of Housing Prices Chart - *SHOCKING* You Need To See This!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ca_aOvZPh-g
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23 / M / Singapore
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Posted 2/26/09

spensaur wrote:

No one can be perfect, and i'm not saying we should have someone that is perfect. I'm merely saying that he's dooming society in his first month of presidency by putting the money in the wrong places. The stimulus bill is just in general not a good idea, i really don't think it's ALL bush's fault, granted he didn't do that great of a job. It's also the bank's fault and society, we're really dumb and were spending money we never had and could never pay for. All in all, it's not off to a good start.


You havent guess the debt yet......
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29 / M / Screwston!
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Posted 2/26/09
A billion here and a billion there starts to add up. At this rate the American dollar will resemble the Yen.

My grandchildren will be paying this off at the very least, no question about it. This money has to come form somewhere, and it's borrowed against future taxes. It looks like in 2010 we'll have a substantial tax increase.

Health care reform, this might be the one issue that vexes me beyond all others. All politicians do is blame the doctors, hospitals, and insurance companies. Did anyone ever think to wonder why the cost of health care services increased? Are all people in the medical profession greedy? Are they plotting to deny more people coverage? What could it be!?

Simple, it's trial lawyers suing like all hell. They advertise, lure people in with a sort of get rich quick scheme, and then line their own pockets with their double digit cuts of the profits. This leads to lots of cost associated with doctors doing taking unnecessary, even redundant and meaningless actions to protect themselves against lawyers. And that extra cost is passed on to you... The consumer. Also, the insurance that doctors must carry now is overwhelmingly expensive. That is another overhead cost they must compensate for, and that too gets passed on to the consumer.

"Health Care Reform" is a myth, nothing more. We have the greatest medical system in the world that employees 14 million Americans and 7 of the 20 fastest growing jobs are health care related. (The information is from the US Dept of Labor: Bureau of Labor and Statistics.)

What we truly need is Tort reform, in the worst possible way.
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Posted 2/27/09

Quebec1217 wrote:

A billion here and a billion there starts to add up. At this rate the American dollar will resemble the Yen.

My grandchildren will be paying this off at the very least, no question about it. This money has to come form somewhere, and it's borrowed against future taxes. It looks like in 2010 we'll have a substantial tax increase.

Health care reform, this might be the one issue that vexes me beyond all others. All politicians do is blame the doctors, hospitals, and insurance companies. Did anyone ever think to wonder why the cost of health care services increased? Are all people in the medical profession greedy? Are they plotting to deny more people coverage? What could it be!?

Simple, it's trial lawyers suing like all hell. They advertise, lure people in with a sort of get rich quick scheme, and then line their own pockets with their double digit cuts of the profits. This leads to lots of cost associated with doctors doing taking unnecessary, even redundant and meaningless actions to protect themselves against lawyers. And that extra cost is passed on to you... The consumer. Also, the insurance that doctors must carry now is overwhelmingly expensive. That is another overhead cost they must compensate for, and that too gets passed on to the consumer.

"Health Care Reform" is a myth, nothing more. We have the greatest medical system in the world that employees 14 million Americans and 7 of the 20 fastest growing jobs are health care related. (The information is from the US Dept of Labor: Bureau of Labor and Statistics.)

What we truly need is Tort reform, in the worst possible way.


sorry but when going to your pharmacist and asking for prescription pills without insurance you tell me that the costs aren't rediculous.

lol

you say lawyers etc? i disagree, it's greedy coroporations.

look at how rich those people are lol you wouldn't even beleive.
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26 / M / Cloud 9.
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Posted 2/27/09
It's the god damn illegal immigrants, very simple.
81 cr points
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29 / M / Screwston!
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Posted 2/27/09

fireyhope wrote:


Quebec1217 wrote:

A billion here and a billion there starts to add up. At this rate the American dollar will resemble the Yen.

My grandchildren will be paying this off at the very least, no question about it. This money has to come form somewhere, and it's borrowed against future taxes. It looks like in 2010 we'll have a substantial tax increase.

Health care reform, this might be the one issue that vexes me beyond all others. All politicians do is blame the doctors, hospitals, and insurance companies. Did anyone ever think to wonder why the cost of health care services increased? Are all people in the medical profession greedy? Are they plotting to deny more people coverage? What could it be!?

Simple, it's trial lawyers suing like all hell. They advertise, lure people in with a sort of get rich quick scheme, and then line their own pockets with their double digit cuts of the profits. This leads to lots of cost associated with doctors doing taking unnecessary, even redundant and meaningless actions to protect themselves against lawyers. And that extra cost is passed on to you... The consumer. Also, the insurance that doctors must carry now is overwhelmingly expensive. That is another overhead cost they must compensate for, and that too gets passed on to the consumer.

"Health Care Reform" is a myth, nothing more. We have the greatest medical system in the world that employees 14 million Americans and 7 of the 20 fastest growing jobs are health care related. (The information is from the US Dept of Labor: Bureau of Labor and Statistics.)

What we truly need is Tort reform, in the worst possible way.


sorry but when going to your pharmacist and asking for prescription pills without insurance you tell me that the costs aren't rediculous.

lol

you say lawyers etc? i disagree, it's greedy coroporations.

look at how rich those people are lol you wouldn't even beleive.


Your rhetoric is astounding...

Fist off, you need to be more specific about the type of medication you're speaking of? Generics? Or proprietary? Generics are reasonably priced and do the same stuff as their name brand counterparts, the exact same. Anyhow, if a company spends millions if not billions of dollars to research, testing, and more testing for the FDA. Do you not think they deserve a return on their expenses? That's how you stay in business, Business Basics 101. If these companies did not do this research, we wouldn't have much of the medication there is today. Simple as that.

Greedy Corporation? How much more generic of a term could you possibly use? Greedy politicians I think is a much better plurality... With more tangible evidence to back it up too, lots more. (i.e. http://www.renewamerica.us/columns/kouri/080111)

People like to think that a corporation is this monolith, with one thought and consciousness. It's not like that at all. This isn't the Borg we're talking about here. All they're trying to do is make their spread sheets in black ink each quarter. Which is more than we can say for government.

You know what is greedy? Trial Lawyers, lobbyists, and even politicians. Ever look at their houses, or what they drive? Just do a little research into these people. Seeing as these are sole individuals, greed seems more likely as it is a human emotion.
Posted 2/27/09 , edited 2/27/09

Shamela24 wrote:


spensaur wrote:


Shamela24 wrote:

At least he's trying to fix Bush's mistakes, he trying to help America avoid another Depression.


We're in a depression already. His stimulus bill is not going to get us out of it, it's going to keep us in it. I already provided the facts of the stimulus bill, good and bad, and you guys still think it's going to help. How about reading something rather than repeating what CNN tells you.


I'm not saying what he's doing is perfect, but at least he's trying to make America better for ALL people. Bush made the mess, and he have to clean it up, which will probably take his whole term in office to do it. You have to spend money to make money.


you really don't have a clue what you're talking about.
at your stated age of 23, you should know a thing or two about economics.

please turn off bet / oprah / obama commercials.

please try to fact check what you type (NOT with msnbc and other shit).

for the 100th time for you dumb fucks:

The Real Deal on the Economic Crisis:

So who is to blame? There's plenty of blame to go around, and it doesn't fasten only on one party or even mainly on what Washington did or didn't do. As The Economist magazine noted recently, the problem is one of "layered irresponsibility ... with hard-working homeowners and billionaire villains each playing a role." Here's a partial list of those alleged to be at fault:

- The Federal Reserve, which slashed interest rates after the dot-com bubble burst, making credit cheap.

- Home buyers, who took advantage of easy credit to bid up the prices of homes excessively.

- Congress, which continues to support a mortgage tax deduction that gives consumers a tax incentive to buy more expensive houses.

- Real estate agents, most of whom work for the sellers rather than the buyers and who earned higher commissions from selling more expensive homes.

- The Clinton administration, which pushed for less stringent credit and downpayment requirements for working- and middle-class families.

- Mortgage brokers, who offered less-credit-worthy home buyers subprime, adjustable rate loans with low initial payments, but exploding interest rates.

- Former Federal Reserve chairman Alan Greenspan, who in 2004, near the peak of the housing bubble, encouraged Americans to take out adjustable rate mortgages.

- Wall Street firms, who paid too little attention to the quality of the risky loans that they bundled into Mortgage Backed Securities (MBS), and issued bonds using those securities as collateral.

- The Bush administration, which failed to provide needed government oversight of the increasingly dicey mortgage-backed securities market.

- An obscure accounting rule called mark-to-market, which can have the paradoxical result of making assets be worth less on paper than they are in reality during times of panic.

-Collective delusion, or a belief on the part of all parties that home prices would keep rising forever, no matter how high or how fast they had already gone up.

The U.S. economy is enormously complicated. Screwing it up takes a great deal of cooperation. Claiming that a single piece of legislation was responsible for (or could have averted) the crisis is just political grandstanding. We have no advice to offer on how best to solve the financial crisis. But these sorts of partisan caricatures can only make the task more difficult.

–by Joe Miller and Brooks Jackson
Sources
Benston, George J. The Separation of Commercial and Investment Banking: The Glass-Steagall Act Revisited and Reconsidered. Oxford University Press, 1990.

Tabarrok, Alexander. "The Separation of Commercial and Investment Banking: The Morgans vs. The Rockefellers." The Quarterly Journal of Austrian Economics 1:1 (1998), pp. 1 - 18.

Kuttner, Robert. "The Bubble Economy." The American Prospect, 24 September 2007.

"The Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act of 1999." U.S. Senate Committee on Banking, Housing and Urban Affairs. Accessed 29 September 2008.

Bartiromo, Maria. "Bill Clinton on the Banking Crisis, McCain and Hillary." Business Week, 24 September 2008.

Standard and Poor's. "Case-Schiller Home Price History." Accessed 30 September 2008.

"Understanding the Tax Reform Debate: Background, Criteria and Questions." Government Accountability Office. September 2005.

Bianco, Katalina M. "The Subprime Lending Crisis: Causes and Effects of the Mortgage Meltdown." CCH. Accessed 29 September 2008.

if you do more unbiased investigation - you'll learn that the clinton administration (that is now packed in obama's admin) and democratic congress is more to blame than bush. do some research into who took the most "contributions" (bribes) from the housing fraud giants fannie and freddie, country wide etc....gee how did obama get on top of that list?


2386 cr points
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31 / F / Wilson, NC
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Posted 2/27/09

asamiueto wrote:


Shamela24 wrote:


spensaur wrote:


Shamela24 wrote:

At least he's trying to fix Bush's mistakes, he trying to help America avoid another Depression.


We're in a depression already. His stimulus bill is not going to get us out of it, it's going to keep us in it. I already provided the facts of the stimulus bill, good and bad, and you guys still think it's going to help. How about reading something rather than repeating what CNN tells you.


I'm not saying what he's doing is perfect, but at least he's trying to make America better for ALL people. Bush made the mess, and he have to clean it up, which will probably take his whole term in office to do it. You have to spend money to make money.


you really don't have a clue what you're talking about.
at your stated age of 23, you should know a thing or two about economics.

please turn off bet / oprah / obama commercials.

please try to fact check what you type (NOT with msnbc and other shit).

for the 100th time for you dumb fucks:

The Real Deal on the Economic Crisis:

So who is to blame? There's plenty of blame to go around, and it doesn't fasten only on one party or even mainly on what Washington did or didn't do. As The Economist magazine noted recently, the problem is one of "layered irresponsibility ... with hard-working homeowners and billionaire villains each playing a role." Here's a partial list of those alleged to be at fault:

- The Federal Reserve, which slashed interest rates after the dot-com bubble burst, making credit cheap.

- Home buyers, who took advantage of easy credit to bid up the prices of homes excessively.

- Congress, which continues to support a mortgage tax deduction that gives consumers a tax incentive to buy more expensive houses.

- Real estate agents, most of whom work for the sellers rather than the buyers and who earned higher commissions from selling more expensive homes.

- The Clinton administration, which pushed for less stringent credit and downpayment requirements for working- and middle-class families.

- Mortgage brokers, who offered less-credit-worthy home buyers subprime, adjustable rate loans with low initial payments, but exploding interest rates.

- Former Federal Reserve chairman Alan Greenspan, who in 2004, near the peak of the housing bubble, encouraged Americans to take out adjustable rate mortgages.

- Wall Street firms, who paid too little attention to the quality of the risky loans that they bundled into Mortgage Backed Securities (MBS), and issued bonds using those securities as collateral.

- The Bush administration, which failed to provide needed government oversight of the increasingly dicey mortgage-backed securities market.

- An obscure accounting rule called mark-to-market, which can have the paradoxical result of making assets be worth less on paper than they are in reality during times of panic.

-Collective delusion, or a belief on the part of all parties that home prices would keep rising forever, no matter how high or how fast they had already gone up.

The U.S. economy is enormously complicated. Screwing it up takes a great deal of cooperation. Claiming that a single piece of legislation was responsible for (or could have averted) the crisis is just political grandstanding. We have no advice to offer on how best to solve the financial crisis. But these sorts of partisan caricatures can only make the task more difficult.

–by Joe Miller and Brooks Jackson
Sources
Benston, George J. The Separation of Commercial and Investment Banking: The Glass-Steagall Act Revisited and Reconsidered. Oxford University Press, 1990.

Tabarrok, Alexander. "The Separation of Commercial and Investment Banking: The Morgans vs. The Rockefellers." The Quarterly Journal of Austrian Economics 1:1 (1998), pp. 1 - 18.

Kuttner, Robert. "The Bubble Economy." The American Prospect, 24 September 2007.

"The Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act of 1999." U.S. Senate Committee on Banking, Housing and Urban Affairs. Accessed 29 September 2008.

Bartiromo, Maria. "Bill Clinton on the Banking Crisis, McCain and Hillary." Business Week, 24 September 2008.

Standard and Poor's. "Case-Schiller Home Price History." Accessed 30 September 2008.

"Understanding the Tax Reform Debate: Background, Criteria and Questions." Government Accountability Office. September 2005.

Bianco, Katalina M. "The Subprime Lending Crisis: Causes and Effects of the Mortgage Meltdown." CCH. Accessed 29 September 2008.

if you do more unbiased investigation - you'll learn that the clinton administration (that is now packed in obama's admin) and democratic congress is more to blame than bush. do some research into who took the most "contributions" (bribes) from the housing fraud giants fannie and freddie, country wide etc....gee how did obama get on top of that list?



This is stupid. I'm just to agree to disagree. If the Clinton adminstration messed up the economy, then Bush should have taken his eight years to fix it. Like I said earlier, Obama is trying to help better the economy.

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F / Labyrinth of Amala
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Posted 2/27/09

Shamela24 wrote:

This is stupid. I'm just to agree to disagree. If the Clinton adminstration messed up the economy, then Bush should have taken his eight years to fix it. Like I said earlier, Obama is trying to help better the economy.



You missed the entire point of the previous person.
Obama wasting almost a trillion dollars is not going to help the economy.


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M / Yo Mommas House
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Posted 2/27/09 , edited 2/27/09
Obama doesnt see the Iraq war like the rest of us. It was a war based on a lie and certain people are making a lot of money off this war. Obama aint talking about bringing all the troops back home he is still going to leave about 50,000 so we will still have a presence and it will still be funded. Seriously it is like every country we attack we leave a permanent presence. It is sickening first this was a war of WMD now it all of a sudden turned into democrising a country to cover up the lie. We sitting up here rebuiliding that country even though we pledged not to engaged in any nation building.

Obama stimulus plan is very bad economics. I mean I can see if spending and bailing out banks would actually have a positive effective but so far I seen same ole shit and banks holding on to their money not lending it to anyone like they was suppose to. How is it that banks are getting billions of dollars and still laying off employees? Something smells very corrupt here. Seriously this universal health care who the hell will be paying for this? The 10% of wealthy Americans cannot fund this by themselves this money will have to be borrowed from other countries which we cannot even pay back or printed thus further destroying the US dollar. I mean when Obama says, "this is coming from the best economists in this country." Who the hell is talking about? Former fed reserve chairmen who cant pay their taxes? The same who is responsible for getting us into this crisis, who creates the bubble, who is a no more federal then federal express and operates completely seperate from our government?

AMERICANS ASK YOURSELF? Can our economy get better with more inflation, more borrowing, more spending, and maintaining wars? If these factors arent address the economy will stay the same and I seriously hate to come back to this thread and say I told you so. To the African Americans here please get out of the race box look deeper than the color of skin and at his politics. I am sick and tired of turning to these African American radio shows who back Obama on almost everything and dont even have a clue what he stimulus is and the impact it has on the economy. Because he is black we all just quick to agree with anything he says and act like this is the best course of action.
4053 cr points
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M / Yo Mommas House
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Posted 2/27/09

Shamela24 wrote:

At least he's trying to fix Bush's mistakes, he trying to help America avoid another Depression.


What mistakes is fixing from Bush? Hell the only one I can see is a lighter tone in trying to compare Islam with terrorism everything else I really cant see too much of a difference. Fix the economy how? By spending trillions of dollars we dont even have? Thats like me trying to buy a Ferrari with my credit card taking out big loans and borrowing a bunch of money from other people that I know damn well I could never pay it back. The worst thing you can do in an economic crisis is further plunge yourself in debt and devalue your dollar even more.
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