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No Oricon #1 for DBSK
Posted 3/12/09 , edited 3/12/09

erxmeeza wrote:

Argh, fan war again?

My answer would be,

Every single DBSK fan knows that they would not get number 1 on the charts. It’s expected.

Kat tun’s been around for 7 years and used to sell over one million, though their sales are dropping they are still one of the best selling artists in Japan. Even though the debut on 2006 but they already well known way before that....in 2002, KAT-TUN held their first concert that before the official's debut only a formation of kattun....so basically they are already on the business arena since 2002

Meanwhile, DBSK are foreigners, it doesn’t matter if they sing Jpop songs… they are still KOREAN and every single Japanese person who knows them views them as foreigners.

For them to even be third against such huge Jpop stars is quite a feat. They still have a long way to go but in Japan their popularity is rising by quite a lot… ask any Japanese , sure they knew who is TOHOSHINKI . As a foreigner they pretty did a good job.


So DBSK's fan u dun have to worry about such things...they already did their best as they can..well #5th consecutive is good enough for me as foreigner's artist in the land that full of NIPPON...beside they started in JAPAN as a new artist even thought at that time they are quite popular back at Korea...won a lot of award and stuffs...so gaining this kind of popularity on being the 3rd is like a lottery for them when head to head wit KATTUN.

So hopefully DBSK's fan will ignore all the comment that might hurt your feeling and at the same time trying not to hurt other fans too

Sorry if my words might sound harsh .


I don't think it's fair to observe KAT-TUN for the 7 years they've been in existence, because for the first 4 years, they never released an official single or album until they officially debuted in 2006...although they were already well-known long before that...but they only TRULY became active in the music scene 3 years ago, so if we are going to compare them to other groups, the fairest is to pay attention to the 3 years they've TRULY been in the music business.

We're talking about the JE here, even long before these groups officially debut, they're already being promoted by the company, so understandably these JE's will be well-known beforehand...Ya Ya Yah & Hey!Say!Jump have not officially debuted yet (I think they still have a few years to wait), but already they're widely known in japan as 2 of Johnny's Junior groups.
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Posted 3/12/09


what ever u said my dear, i dun wanna be one of the people who will quoting and replying...other people might get bored scroll down all comments about this things..so what ever it is, let just stop this..by d way i get ur point...
Posted 3/12/09 , edited 3/12/09

erxmeeza wrote:



what ever u said my dear, i dun wanna be one of the people who will quoting and replying...other people might get bored scroll down all comments about this things..so what ever it is, let just stop this..by d way i get ur point...


I just think if ppl are going to compare, they should at least compare fairly...

then again, I think this whole "competition" with DBSK & KAT-TUN in the record sales is bias...they were competing on KAT-TUN's home turf, the place where KT dominates, so of course we all know what the outcome is, KT obviously is selling much more. Just like how I think it would be bias if they were competing in Korea, because then DBSK would be on home land, and they would've had the advantage...makes me feel all the more pointless about this whole debate.
Posted 3/12/09 , edited 3/12/09
congrats to kat-tun! this is their 10th consecutive no.1! yay! =D


scrystalz100 wrote:


erxmeeza wrote:

Argh, fan war again?

My answer would be,

Every single DBSK fan knows that they would not get number 1 on the charts. It’s expected.

Kat tun’s been around for 7 years and used to sell over one million, though their sales are dropping they are still one of the best selling artists in Japan. Even though the debut on 2006 but they already well known way before that....in 2002, KAT-TUN held their first concert that before the official's debut only a formation of kattun....so basically they are already on the business arena since 2002

Meanwhile, DBSK are foreigners, it doesn’t matter if they sing Jpop songs… they are still KOREAN and every single Japanese person who knows them views them as foreigners.

For them to even be third against such huge Jpop stars is quite a feat. They still have a long way to go but in Japan their popularity is rising by quite a lot… ask any Japanese , sure they knew who is TOHOSHINKI . As a foreigner they pretty did a good job.


So DBSK's fan u dun have to worry about such things...they already did their best as they can..well #5th consecutive is good enough for me as foreigner's artist in the land that full of NIPPON...beside they started in JAPAN as a new artist even thought at that time they are quite popular back at Korea...won a lot of award and stuffs...so gaining this kind of popularity on being the 3rd is like a lottery for them when head to head wit KATTUN.

So hopefully DBSK's fan will ignore all the comment that might hurt your feeling and at the same time trying not to hurt other fans too

Sorry if my words might sound harsh .


I don't think it's fair to observe KAT-TUN for the 7 years they've been in existence, because for the first 4 years, they never released an official single or album until they officially debuted in 2006...although they were already well-known long before that...but they only TRULY became active in the music scene 3 years ago, so if we are going to compare them to other groups, the fairest is to pay attention to the 3 years they've TRULY been in the music business.

We're talking about the JE here, even long before these groups officially debut, they're already being promoted by the company, so understandably these JE's will be well-known beforehand...Ya Ya Yah & Hey!Say!Jump have not officially debuted yet (I think they still have a few years to wait), but already they're widely known in japan as 2 of Johnny's Junior groups.


that is so true! heck! ya ya yah & hey!say!jump are just a bunch of young boys for crying out loud! n already they're so wellknown in japan...they even have their own tv show already! the je are always promoted heavily b4 they actually debut...probably to ensure that their debut would come out with a BANG! that certainly was the case for all the je groups who have debuted so far...although i'm not too sure about kanjani8...but i think they did well to start out too.

Posted 3/12/09

scrystalz100 wrote:


Yei wrote:


scrystalz100 wrote:

I would agree with you in that sense...but again, whether or not this applies to DBSK and KAT-TUN is subjective, like you have learned...ppl who have more 'vocal ability & skill are more talented', yes that's true...but is DBSK more vocally skilled than KAT-TUN? That remains subjective doesn't it?


Well talent could be subjective because you can say talented in what sense (maybe you can be more talented in singing a certain way or whatever), vocal ability isn't. They can do acapellas in perfect harmony, it's like one person can jump higher than another. They are more skilled when it comes to vocal ability, but whoever is better is subjective.

I gtg to school now, btw, so byee


in your perspective, DBSK is still vocally more skilled, that's still an OPINION, it's subjective...no matter how you voice it out, you are still suggesting that DBSK are more vocally skilled...then you go on to say "but whoever is better is subjective"...do you just mean overall, who's better?

Yes, I agree DBSK are talented vocally, but when you compare them to KAT-TUN in the same sense, it's still a subjective argument...why? because when you compare them to another, it's still an OPINION. When you say that "DBSK are more vocally skilled than KAT-TUN", that's an OPINION, even if to you, it's "obvious" they are, it's still an opinion, because we all have different perspectives on things...some ppl may think KAT-TUN are more vocally talented, again, that's also an OPINION. I've actually also come across some ppl who also think "DBSK are not as vocally talented as they are given credit for", again, that's an OPINION. If you insist that DBSK are more vocally talented than KAT-TUN as a "fact", then you're basically implying that everyone else who think otherwise are wrong...this takes us back to square one.
I'm not trying to deny nor agree with your argument...in your PERSONAL PERSPECTIVE, DBSK are "obviously" more vocally skilled, I understand that, and I won't argue with you...and at the same time, I'm not trying to deny that either, because it's an OPINION, NOT a "fact".

The truth is, everyone has different perspectives on practically everything in life...in some ppl's perspectives, DBSK are amazingly talented...to others, they're not that great...same goes to KAT-TUN, some think they're very talented (I mean in any aspect), some think they're not...and that's why we all have different opinions. That's why all our views are subjective...even if someone says "DBSK are untalented", and is basically completely disagreeing with your views, that's still an OPINION, you can call that person "deaf" or "blind" for thinking that way, it doesn't matter, it's still an OPINION. So no matter which way you look at it, every perspective and view is subjective.


mmm...i get what u mean...it's true that every1 thinks differently & see things differently...

i have a friend who hates both groups n thinks they both "suck"...i personally think she's crazy & doesn't know what the bloody hell she's talking about! but what can i do? it's her opinion...n my opinions on her opinions is questionable too...although i completely disagree with her, but i'm sure there's bound to be other ppl out there who also doesn't like either groups & would probably agree with her *shrugs*
my friend always drives me insane whenever she asks me "what's so great about kat-tun/dbsk"? argh! i just feel like wanting to strangle her!
although don't like dbsk very much, but i have to admit they're very talented...same as kat-tun (but i won't compare them).

i definitely can see why every view is debatable & subjective...when ppl think differently, that's when they have different opinions...sum may think dbsk are more "vocally talented" & whatever, but there are bound to be others who don't agree, n that doesn't mean they're wrong either...so there's the subjective part...i think everything we think is subjective & questionable...definitely when ur comparing something or some1 to another.
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Posted 3/12/09
jeezus christ, I come back from school to this?

What was the point of that whole entire thing we had in the other topic?? Some people have more ability when it come to playing piano than others, that's not subjective, but whoever you like better is subjective. That's exactly what this is.

That's how we finished off that topic, remember? I'm gonna take a nap now.
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Posted 3/12/09
oh well dbsk has won 2 times maybe because i like them both dbsk and kat tun
i don't feel sad
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Posted 3/12/09
this may be off topic but I just wanted 2 know who's the japanese guy who's posing with beyonce in a bag ad, heard he's a pop star.
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Posted 3/12/09 , edited 3/12/09

Yei wrote:


mia_chan88 wrote:

Okay no need to add who`s better & stuff cause of the sales
As a fan of both Groups for many years so i cant go bias here but to be fair: you Shouldn`t Judge cause of what they did in the past ! Judge the Current single only
Survivor isn't a great song nor single (Even the MV is Cheap ] i prefer their other songs really (but i don't hate it )
on the other Hand Rescue is a lovely single since its different yet you can hear the improvement & even the MV which some might say is Dark yet its cool & i like it a lot
anyway both are in the top of the charts so other than bashing you should be proud of your band cause both of them did their best for the fans


I know this is because I was raised with US media, but Kat-Tun's song and MV didn't impress me at all. It's an okay song, but they always try too hard to be cool, with the english, rapping, beat boxing, random black dude dancing in the back ground, etc. I always cringe whenever they do stuff like that, especially in the beginning. It's better than alot of their other singles, but I don't think it's really that good.

Survivor is not TVXQ's best stuff, but l still like survivor better than Rescue, by far. I love it's deep meaning, just like like O's.


O Jun ban hap is still better than survivor (lyrics,MV & Music) Survivor `s intro lyrics is catchy but then again both rescue & survivor are searching for the light plus the titles have somewhat intresting meanings (Survivor/Rescue).
i`ll be lying if i said Survivor MV impressed me ,it was more dissapointing than impressing IMO if i went to KT`s issue :
1-That`s the first time there is dancers at the back ground .
2- The dancing really improved (so is their music )
3- The beatbox is maru`s way of improving his beatbox (fans really love that )
4-The English chorus isnt really something to show off with or a matter of coolness Me &other Non japanese fans are pleased & glad that they sang in English .(they improved in their English than before )
5- As for Rapping : Koki is a rapper & writes his own rapping part so there isnt something special to make him cooler than other rappers .

sorry if i made a long issue about kattun cause you seem criticising them & i dont mind really seeing DBSK singing english which they did (Hug & A whole new world ) even if some of them showed his talent either beatboxing or rapping which xiah showed in mirotic C version .
Both groups have diffirent history & start Yet they still show us their best .
I was raised with the US media too ^^ but the thing is Survivor beat seems similar nothing new but Rescue beat brought something i haven`t heard kinda like revived An old beat Both Lyrics Are lovely

The only thing i really want is NO FAN WAR >< It Makes things go ugly & out of hand
Since i replied late to the Quote


sagi2005 wrote:

this may be off topic but I just wanted 2 know who's the japanese guy who's posing with beyonce in a bag ad, heard he's a pop star.

You mean Kimutaku (Kimura Takuya ) the Samantha Thavasa promotion if so then its Kimura Takuya
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Posted 3/12/09

mia_chan88 wrote:


Yei wrote:


mia_chan88 wrote:

Okay no need to add who`s better & stuff cause of the sales
As a fan of both Groups for many years so i cant go bias here but to be fair: you Shouldn`t Judge cause of what they did in the past ! Judge the Current single only
Survivor isn't a great song nor single (Even the MV is Cheap ] i prefer their other songs really (but i don't hate it )
on the other Hand Rescue is a lovely single since its different yet you can hear the improvement & even the MV which some might say is Dark yet its cool & i like it a lot
anyway both are in the top of the charts so other than bashing you should be proud of your band cause both of them did their best for the fans


I know this is because I was raised with US media, but Kat-Tun's song and MV didn't impress me at all. It's an okay song, but they always try too hard to be cool, with the english, rapping, beat boxing, random black dude dancing in the back ground, etc. I always cringe whenever they do stuff like that, especially in the beginning. It's better than alot of their other singles, but I don't think it's really that good.

Survivor is not TVXQ's best stuff, but l still like survivor better than Rescue, by far. I love it's deep meaning, just like like O's.


O Jun ban hap is still better than survivor (lyrics,MV & Music) Survivor `s intro lyrics is catchy but then again both rescue & survivor are searching for the light plus the titles have somewhat intresting meanings (Survivor/Rescue).
i`ll be lying if i said Survivor MV impressed me ,it was more dissapointing than impressing IMO if i went to KT`s issue :
1-That`s the first time there is dancers at the back ground .
2- The dancing really improved (so is their music )
3- The beatbox is maru`s way of improving his beatbox (fans really love that )
4-The English chorus isnt really something to show off with or a matter of coolness Me &other Non japanese fans are pleased & glad that they sang in English .(they improved in their English than before )
5- As for Rapping : Koki is a rapper & writes his own rapping part so there isnt something special to make him cooler than other rappers .

sorry if i made a long issue about kattun cause you seem criticising them & i dont mind really seeing DBSK singing english which they did (Hug & A whole new world ) even if some of them showed his talent either beatboxing or rapping which xiah showed in mirotic C version .
Both groups have diffirent history & start Yet they still show us their best .
I was raised with the US media too ^^ but the thing is Survivor beat seems similar nothing new but Rescue beat brought something i haven`t heard kinda like revived An old beat Both Lyrics Are lovely



I don't mean just the English chorus, I'm talking about little, things like the intro.

And at least The Secret Code is looking great for TVXQ, Bolero was at there regular standard of excellence and now Taxi looks like it'll be even better!! I can't wait for the album to come out.



Posted 3/12/09 , edited 3/12/09
lol this thread is going to get locked becoz its not in the dbsk forums :[ i know it pisses me off too...
yeah becoz some haters hate on us dbsk fans and stuff and report ;[

im just sayin!
Posted 3/12/09 , edited 3/12/09

Yei wrote:

jeezus christ, I come back from school to this?

What was the point of that whole entire thing we had in the other topic?? Some people have more ability when it come to playing piano than others, that's not subjective, but whoever you like better is subjective. That's exactly what this is.

That's how we finished off that topic, remember? I'm gonna take a nap now.


mmm...i don't think u understood what scrystalz100 meant...it's true that ppl who have more ability are more skilled than others...however, what scrystalz100 meant was that in this case, is dbsk REALLY the more skilled vocalists than kat-tun? that is subjective...afterall, u think they are, some think they're not...do u understand what i mean? we're not talking about who we like better...even when comparing skills itself, it's still debatable...like, sum ppl think beethoven is a talented pianist, but others think mozart is more skilled, either way, it's subjective...it's the same case here, sum think dbsk is more skilled, while others think otherwise...this is subjective...

it's true that ppl who are more skilled are more talented...BUT, in this case, whoever is the more skilled one, is still debatable.



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dark-wingedL wrote:
mmm...i don't think u understood what scrystalz100 meant...it's true that ppl who have more ability are more skilled than others...however, what scrystalz100 meant was that in this case, is dbsk REALLY the more skilled vocalists than kat-tun? that is subjective...afterall, u think they are, some think they're not...do u understand what i mean? we're not talking about who we like better...even when comparing skills itself, it's still debatable...like, sum ppl think beethoven is a talented pianist, but others think mozart is more skilled, either way, it's subjective...it's the same case here, sum think dbsk is more skilled, while others think otherwise...this is subjective...

it's true that ppl who are more skilled are more talented...BUT, in this case, whoever is the more skilled one, is still debatable.



Well if it's Beethoven vs Mozart, yeah, that's debatable. If it was Beethoven vs me, I think Beethoven would win, because I don't even know how to play the piano or understand music. If I go and start bashing keys on a piano, I think Beethoven would still be the one with more skill, because I have never even learned anything about music, and he has studied and mastered it his whole life. Would you agree that Beethoven is more skilled than me when it comes to music? I really don't think that's subjective, he studied it and I didn't, therefore he knows more and has better skill than.

This is an acapella group vs a group that doesn't prioritize vocals. (btw, Junsu and Jaejoong were ranked #1 and #2 male vocals in all of Korea)

Maybe you just haven't heard any DBSK acapellas, like Forever Love. And this one was amazing as well: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8nCkJgbdnk

Like all acapella groups with very high vocal abilities, every member of DBSK has his specific role:

Jung Yunho (U-Know) - baritone
Kim Jaejoong (Hero) - main vocals
Park Yoochun (Micky) - bass-baritone
Kim Junsu (Xiah) - baritenor
Shim Changmin (Max) - tenor

Who's the tenor, bass and baritenor in Kat-Tun? And let's compare the harmonies of Kat-Tun's acapellas with DBSK's.
Posted 3/12/09 , edited 3/12/09

Yei wrote:


dark-wingedL wrote:
mmm...i don't think u understood what scrystalz100 meant...it's true that ppl who have more ability are more skilled than others...however, what scrystalz100 meant was that in this case, is dbsk REALLY the more skilled vocalists than kat-tun? that is subjective...afterall, u think they are, some think they're not...do u understand what i mean? we're not talking about who we like better...even when comparing skills itself, it's still debatable...like, sum ppl think beethoven is a talented pianist, but others think mozart is more skilled, either way, it's subjective...it's the same case here, sum think dbsk is more skilled, while others think otherwise...this is subjective...

it's true that ppl who are more skilled are more talented...BUT, in this case, whoever is the more skilled one, is still debatable.



Well if it's Beethoven vs Mozart, yeah, that's debatable. If it was Beethoven vs me, I think Beethoven would win, because I don't even know how to play the piano or understand music. If I go and start bashing keys on a piano, I think Beethoven would still be the one with more skill, because I have never even learned anything about music, and he has studied and mastered it his whole life. Would you agree that Beethoven is more skilled than me when it comes to music? I really don't think that's subjective, he studied it and I didn't, therefore he knows more and has better skill than.

This is an acapella group vs a group that doesn't prioritize vocals. (btw, Junsu and Jaejoong were ranked #1 and #2 male vocals in all of Korea)

Maybe you just haven't heard any DBSK acapellas, like Forever Love. And this one was amazing as well: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8nCkJgbdnk

Like all acapella groups with very high vocal abilities, every member of DBSK has his specific role:

Jung Yunho (U-Know) - baritone
Kim Jaejoong (Hero) - main vocals
Park Yoochun (Micky) - bass-baritone
Kim Junsu (Xiah) - baritenor
Shim Changmin (Max) - tenor

Who's the tenor, bass and baritenor in Kat-Tun? And let's compare the harmonies of Kat-Tun's acapellas with DBSK's.



oh for crying out loud! if i compare u to beethoven, then of course beethoven is more talented, afterall, ur both aren't even in the same fields...but dbsk & kat-tun are...although kat-tun do many things, they still prioritize vocals, they're a boyband for crying out loud! so their main focus is music...if they don't "prioritize" vocalism, then why the hell did they form a boyband anyway? they might as well end up like ikuta toma who only sticks to acting & performing in stage plays! or maybe they never debuted instead & remained as dancers for their senpai domoto koichi! if their main focus is not vocals & music, then what is then? acting? oh plz, the only member who can be considered a well established actor who constantly has acting roles each yr is kame...the others don't even get as much acting roles...and ueda has never appeared in a drama or movie in his life! hosting? no, i don't think so...performing in stageplays? no, not even close...so tell me, what exactly is their main focus then?
it's fair to compare them cuz they're both in the same league, oh n don't start with the whole "this member came in what position for what", cuz that really doesn't prove them that much better than others...opinions everywhere, it's all opinions, n all decided on opinions.

certain ppl u can compare to others when they're in the same fields, but u can't compare ppl who are completely different & do competely different things...so are u gonna deny that dbsk & kat-tun are on the same fields? they're both boybands aren't they? they both focus mainly on vocals...all the other stuff kat-tun do are just side jobs.

again, comparing both groups, different ppl are bound to have different opinions, so ur saying that no matter how other ppl feel, ur opinions are the truth? n that dbsk are vocally more skilled? no matter what other ppl feel, they're wrong (unless their views are the same as urs)? pshh! we're just going around in circles.
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Posted 3/12/09 , edited 3/12/09

dark-wingedL wrote:
oh for crying out loud! if i compare u to beethoven, then of course beethoven is more talented, afterall, ur both aren't even in the same fields...but dbsk & kat-tun are...although kat-tun do many things, they still prioritize vocals, they're a boyband for crying out loud! so their main focus is music...if they don't "prioritize" vocalism, then why the hell did they form a boyband anyway? they might as well end up like ikuta toma who only sticks to acting & performing in stage plays! or maybe they never debuted instead & remained as dancers for their senpai domoto koichi! if their main focus is not vocals & music, then what is then? acting? oh plz, the only member who can be considered a well established actor who constantly has acting roles each yr is kame...the others don't even get as much acting roles...and ueda has never appeared in a drama or movie in his life! hosting? no, i don't think so...performing in stageplays? no, not even close...so tell me, what exactly is their main focus then?
it's fair to compare them cuz they're both in the same league, oh n don't start with the whole "this member came in what position for what", cuz that really doesn't prove them that much better than others...opinions everywhere, it's all opinions, n all decided on opinions.

certain ppl u can compare to others when they're in the same fields, but u can't compare ppl who are completely different & do competely different things...so are u gonna deny that dbsk & kat-tun are on the same fields? they're both boybands aren't they? they both focus mainly on vocals...all the other stuff kat-tun do are just side jobs.

again, comparing both groups, different ppl are bound to have different opinions, so ur saying that no matter how other ppl feel, ur opinions are the truth? n that dbsk are vocally more skilled? no matter what other ppl feel, they're wrong (unless their views are the same as urs)? pshh! we're just going around in circles...n i think this was also



So you admit Beethoven is more talented? lol, I just wanted you to see how talent or skill could not always be subjective. No one would say "oh that's your opinion" to that.

They are not in the same field, that was also part of my point. One is an acapella group, one doesn't prioritize vocals. You see, boybands (especially with JE), don't have to have good vocals. The guys in Kat-Tun didn't get chosen for their amazing voices, actually it's ALL about looks, that's why they are in a boyband. This is actually common knowledge....

All over the world it's like this, in all entertainment industries, people get to be singers but can't really sing. Like Rihanna, they have to edit her voice to make it tolerable on the CD. In reality she's not the greatest singer. Singers get chosen mostly for their looks and they don't even need any real vocal talent, this is especially true for JE and it's pretty boybands. The JE formula is to try to get girls obsessed with the guys looks and personalities. (and there's nothing wrong with that)

If DBSK was the same type of boyband as Kat-Tun (like if they were another JE group), then they're comparable. But DBSK is an acapella group. They get chosen because of their voices and they need to have outstanding vocal ability to do what they do. So they are not in the same league/field/whatever. one's acapella, and one's a pretty boyband. DBSK had to practice and train themselves so hard to perfect the art of acapella, they need to plan and decide who's doing what notes and how they will harmonize, etc. Kat-Tun doesn't do any of that, they are not the same thing.

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