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Is God Real?
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Posted 3/14/09

Yei wrote:


Allhailodin wrote:

We have no purpose, we simply exist because millions of years ago, certian conditions were met that allowed the creation of the first surviving cell, that cell mutiplied and eventually became complex life, life itself has no purpose or meaning, it just exists because that first cell survived and mutiplied, if that cell had died, there would probally be no life on earth at all. or it would be a lot different, but no we as a race do not have a purpose.


lol how could you possibly know that? The chances of it happening all by luck are unbelievable and like I said, to me and everyone else who believes in God, humanity obviously has some sort of purpose.


I know that the inorganic compounds that existed before life did on earth, came together and formed organic compounds, enough organic compounds formed that a Prokaryotic Cell got created, and eventually a Eukaryotic Cell got created making complex multi celled life possible, Life itself has no purpose, it just exists because that first Prokaryotic Cell survived and became a Eukaryotic Cell. the only purpose mankind could possibly have is to go to other planets and live there too.
Posted 3/14/09

Yei wrote:


XxBillyxNoBS wrote:

EXACTLY! }:O See thank you for that stupid Yei person being a hater!
Btw if your not tolerant of other religions or bliefts then Don't Post seriously.


I've never really been bothered by extremely religious people trying to convert me and I've never been bothered the slightest bit by anyone trying to impose their religious beliefs on me. All the religious people I've discussed things with are very respectful and understanding and intelligent...

But some of the atheists I come across.....

I don't even wanna bother.


Fine I'm sorry if i made you feel bad but you guys don't understand what i'm trying to say.
I'm not converting you and i don't want to I don't want to make you feel bad and stuff.

I'MS ORRY TO THOSE WHO THINK I'M PROBABLY AN AZZ AND STUFF BUT ALL I'M TRYING TO PROVE IS MY THEORY.
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Posted 3/14/09 , edited 3/14/09

XxBillyxNoBS wrote:


digs wrote:


XxBillyxNoBS wrote:


Allhailodin wrote:


Yei wrote:


XxBillyxNoBS wrote:

Do you think god is real?
If so prove it.

To me I don't think he is and because i have proof.

If god was real then why did he let Jesus die? When he could have saved him with his powers?
Also if he was also real then what is he/ she or even it?


Wow that's amazing proof.

Yes I think God is real, because the belief in a higher power and benevolence are both innate in humans, and there has to be something that put that there. And that something is some sort of benevolent higher power. Also, I think it's crazy to believe we have no purpose or meaning to our lives considering the depth of human thinking (philosophy, religion, morality, etc).


We have no purpose, we simply exist because millions of years ago, certian conditions were met that allowed the creation of the first surviving cell, that cell mutiplied and eventually became complex life, life itself has no purpose or meaning, it just exists because that first cell survived and mutiplied, if that cell had died, there would probally be no life on earth at all. or it would be a lot different, but no we as a race do not have a purpose.


EXACTLY! }:O See thank you for that stupid Yei person being a hater!
Btw if your not tolerant of other religions or bliefts then Don't Post seriously.


How can you ask that only tolerant people post when you call someone else's view stupid? The root of tolerance is respect. And your proof against God is proof against Christianity, which really isn't proof but is an argument assuming that God was powerless to save Jesus. I am a Christian and I believe in the Bible. However, within the Bible it calls me to respect those who disagree and show God's Love to all people. Although I don't agree with them, I respect Muslims, atheists, agnostics, and all religious (or lack thereof) beliefs.


Really? You think i'm actually against you Christianity! Wow.... I'm just saying my theory and belieft.
Really If god was sooo Powerful in the damn world why didn't he just save Jesus from being whipped to death.
And nail across a cross and left to die.
THEN HE HAS THE NERVES TO PRATICALLY BRING HIM BACK TO LIVE AFTER 3 DAYS?
WOW.



There was purpose in Jesus death. Jesus is God and became flesh and lived a perfect sinless life. The penalty for sin is death, yet Jesus being God in the flesh lived the human life and never sinned. God chose to die for us, and in doing so He took up the punishment that we deserve so that sin may be atoned for. He freely removes (forgives) the sins of all who repent in His Name. Jesus chose to die because He wanted to bring atonement for sin, and He rose again because He conquered death and showed the world that He truly was God and has the power to overcome death. It wasn't that Jesus couldn't save Himself, it was that He chose to bear all sin because He has Unfailing Love for humanity.

And about your argument regarding prayer...
Mat 4:5 Then the devil took him to the holy city and had him stand on the highest point of the temple.
Mat 4:6 "If you are the Son of God," he said, "throw yourself down. For it is written: " 'He will command his angels concerning you, and they will lift you up in their hands, so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.' [fn]"
Mat 4:7 Jesus answered him, "It is also written: 'Do not put the Lord your God to the test.' [fn]"


We are to not test God, and the Devil tried to Temp Jesus to put God to the test (and thus sinning). Prayers that are offered in faith and from a repentant heart are heard and answered. Rom 8:28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose. Sometimes it is God's will that we suffer so that good may come from it. We also have an appointed time to die. God doesn't listen to the prayers of those with proud and unrepentant hearts, those verses clearly say "in Jesus Name." Meaning those who pray to God must acknowledge Jesus as the Son of God. You are not only testing God, but also not praying in Jesus Name, why should that prayer be heard or answered favorably? God is Holy and listens to the humble in heart who repent and truly believe.

I am sorry if I sounded harsh or rude, and even though I don't agree with you I respect your beliefs and your right to hold them.
Posted 3/14/09

digs wrote:


XxBillyxNoBS wrote:


digs wrote:


XxBillyxNoBS wrote:


Allhailodin wrote:


Yei wrote:


XxBillyxNoBS wrote:

Do you think god is real?
If so prove it.

To me I don't think he is and because i have proof.

If god was real then why did he let Jesus die? When he could have saved him with his powers?
Also if he was also real then what is he/ she or even it?


Wow that's amazing proof.

Yes I think God is real, because the belief in a higher power and benevolence are both innate in humans, and there has to be something that put that there. And that something is some sort of benevolent higher power. Also, I think it's crazy to believe we have no purpose or meaning to our lives considering the depth of human thinking (philosophy, religion, morality, etc).


We have no purpose, we simply exist because millions of years ago, certian conditions were met that allowed the creation of the first surviving cell, that cell mutiplied and eventually became complex life, life itself has no purpose or meaning, it just exists because that first cell survived and mutiplied, if that cell had died, there would probally be no life on earth at all. or it would be a lot different, but no we as a race do not have a purpose.


EXACTLY! }:O See thank you for that stupid Yei person being a hater!
Btw if your not tolerant of other religions or bliefts then Don't Post seriously.


How can you ask that only tolerant people post when you call someone else's view stupid? The root of tolerance is respect. And your proof against God is proof against Christianity, which really isn't proof but is an argument assuming that God was powerless to save Jesus. I am a Christian and I believe in the Bible. However, within the Bible it calls me to respect those who disagree and show God's Love to all people. Although I don't agree with them, I respect Muslims, atheists, agnostics, and all religious (or lack thereof) beliefs.


Really? You think i'm actually against you Christianity! Wow.... I'm just saying my theory and belieft.
Really If god was sooo Powerful in the damn world why didn't he just save Jesus from being whipped to death.
And nail across a cross and left to die.
THEN HE HAS THE NERVES TO PRATICALLY BRING HIM BACK TO LIVE AFTER 3 DAYS?
WOW.



There was purpose in Jesus death. Jesus is God and became flesh and lived a perfect sinless life. The penalty for sin is death, yet Jesus being God in the flesh lived the human life and never sinned. God chose to die for us, and in doing so He took up the punishment that we deserve so that sin may be atoned for. He freely removes (forgives) the sins of all who repent in His Name. Jesus chose to die because He wanted to bring atonement for sin, and He rose again because He conquered death and showed the world that He truly was God and has the power to overcome death. It wasn't that Jesus couldn't save Himself, it was that He chose to bear all sin because He has Unfailing Love for humanity.

And about your argument regarding prayer...
Mat 4:5 Then the devil took him to the holy city and had him stand on the highest point of the temple.
Mat 4:6 "If you are the Son of God," he said, "throw yourself down. For it is written: " 'He will command his angels concerning you, and they will lift you up in their hands, so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.' [fn]"
Mat 4:7 Jesus answered him, "It is also written: 'Do not put the Lord your God to the test.' [fn]"


We are to not test God, and the Devil tried to Temp Jesus to put God to the test (and thus sinning). Prayers that are offered in faith and from a repentant heart are heard and answered. Rom 8:28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose. Sometimes it is God's will that we suffer so that good may come from it. We also have an appointed time to die. God doesn't listen to the prayers of those with proud and unrepentant hearts, those verses clearly say "in Jesus Name." Meaning those who pray to God must acknowledge Jesus as the Son of God. You are not only testing God, but also not praying in Jesus Name, why should that prayer be heard or answered favorably? God is Holy and listens to the humble in heart who repent and truly believe.



*Claps* you are the first one to pratically stay and fight this discussion *claps*

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Posted 3/14/09

XxBillyxNoBS wrote:


Yei wrote:


XxBillyxNoBS wrote:

EXACTLY! }:O See thank you for that stupid Yei person being a hater!
Btw if your not tolerant of other religions or bliefts then Don't Post seriously.


I've never really been bothered by extremely religious people trying to convert me and I've never been bothered the slightest bit by anyone trying to impose their religious beliefs on me. All the religious people I've discussed things with are very respectful and understanding and intelligent...

But some of the atheists I come across.....

I don't even wanna bother.


Fine I'm sorry if i made you feel bad but you guys don't understand what i'm trying to say.
I'm not converting you and i don't want to I don't want to make you feel bad and stuff.

I'MS ORRY TO THOSE WHO THINK I'M PROBABLY AN AZZ AND STUFF BUT ALL I'M TRYING TO PROVE IS MY THEORY.


You know off topic here but i really dont care, ima point this out to you : if you make someone else feel bad thats 100% their problem, same thing if you offend someone, 100% their problem, your not the one who feels bad, they are.


But as for god creating the universe and that crap, it is impossible for god to have created the universe, as, if there was nothing before the universe, and since god is made of matter, that matter cannot have existed if there is no universe for it to exist in. simple as that, something cannot exist if there is no space for it to exist in. that says that god cannot have existed before the universe did, and if thats true, then god would be made of hydrogen as thats what was in the early universe, hydrogen and helium, so god must = hydrogen and helium as all other elements were born from hydrogen and helium, hydrogen is the mother of all life. so logically god must = hydrogen.
Posted 3/14/09 , edited 3/14/09
Going on w/ my proof!

The belief in "god" seems to be ubiquitous through the ages.

We know, for example, that the ancient Egyptians believed in their gods so fervently that they built massive structures like the Great Pyramid -- still today one of the largest and most enduring human constructions ever created. Despite that fervor, however, we know with complete certainty today that the Egyptian gods were imaginary. We don't build pyramids anymore and we do not mummify our leaders.

More recently we know that tens of millions of Romans worshiped Jupiter and his friends, and to them they built magnificent temples. The ruins of these temples are popular tourist attractions even today. Yet we know with complete certainty that these gods were imaginary because no one worships Zeus any more.

Much more recently, we know that the Aztec civilization believed in their gods so intensely that they constructed huge temples and pyramids. In addition, Aztecs were so zealous that they were sacrificing hundreds of human beings to their gods as recently as the 16th century. Despite the intensity, however, we know today that these gods were completely imaginary. The Aztecs were insane to be murdering people for their gods. Killing a person has no effect on rainfall or anything else. We all know that. If the Aztec gods were real, we would still be offering sacrifices to them.

Today's "God" is just as imaginary as were these historical gods. The fact that millions of people worship a god is meaningless.

The "God" and the "Jesus" that Christians worship today are actually amalgams formed out of ancient pagan gods. The idea of a "virgin birth", "burial in a rock tomb", "resurrection after 3 days" and "eating of body and drinking of blood" had nothing to do with Jesus. All of the rituals in Christianity are completely man-made. Christianity is a snow ball that rolled over a dozen pagan religions. As the snowball grew, it freely attached pagan rituals in order to be more palatable to converts. You can find accounts like these in popular literature:

"The vestiges of pagan religion in Christian symbology are undeniable. Egyptian sun disks became the halos of Catholic saints. Pictograms of Isis nursing her miraculously conceived son Horus became the blueprint for our modern images of the Virgin Mary nursing Baby Jesus. And virtually all the elements of the Catholic ritual - the miter, the altar, the doxology, and communion, the act of "God-eating" - were taken directly from earlier pagan mystery religions."

"Nothing in Christianity is original. The pre-Christian God Mithras - called the Son of God and the Light of the World - was born on December 25, died, was buried in a rock tomb, and then resurrected in three days. By the way, December 25 is also the birthday or Osiris, Adonis, and Dionysus. The newborn Krishna was presented with gold, frankincense, and myrrh. Even Christianity's weekly holy day was stolen from the pagans."
It is extremely hard for a Christian believer to process this data, but nonetheless it is true. All of the "sacred rituals" of Christianity, and all of Christianity's core beliefs (virgin birth, resurrection, etc.) come straight from pagan religions that were popular around the time of Jesus. Articles like this and this can help you learn more. Once you understand the fundamental truth of Christianity's origins, the silliness of this whole thing becomes apparent.
Obviously the pagan believers, from whom Christianity derived its myths, worshipped gods that were imaginary. And thus our "God" today is just an extension of these imaginary forerunners. All human gods are imaginary.

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Posted 3/14/09
Yei
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Posted 3/14/09

XxBillyxNoBS wrote:

Fine I'm sorry if i made you feel bad but you guys don't understand what i'm trying to say.
I'm not converting you and i don't want to I don't want to make you feel bad and stuff.

I'MS ORRY TO THOSE WHO THINK I'M PROBABLY AN AZZ AND STUFF BUT ALL I'M TRYING TO PROVE IS MY THEORY.


Okay, and why are you using the bible to prove there is no God? Not everyone who believes in God is Christian.
Posted 3/14/09
i think God is real, i belive all the history of Jesus....
Posted 3/14/09 , edited 3/14/09
You know, half of the Extended Discussion forum is about God and frankly, I wish people would find something else to write about. All it does is draw in atheist who start bashing God believers and causes this whole big flame war which is a waiste of time in my opinion.
Posted 3/14/09

XxBillyxNoBS wrote:

Going on w/ my proof!

The belief in "god" seems to be ubiquitous through the ages.

We know, for example, that the ancient Egyptians believed in their gods so fervently that they built massive structures like the Great Pyramid -- still today one of the largest and most enduring human constructions ever created. Despite that fervor, however, we know with complete certainty today that the Egyptian gods were imaginary. We don't build pyramids anymore and we do not mummify our leaders.

More recently we know that tens of millions of Romans worshiped Jupiter and his friends, and to them they built magnificent temples. The ruins of these temples are popular tourist attractions even today. Yet we know with complete certainty that these gods were imaginary because no one worships Zeus any more.

Much more recently, we know that the Aztec civilization believed in their gods so intensely that they constructed huge temples and pyramids. In addition, Aztecs were so zealous that they were sacrificing hundreds of human beings to their gods as recently as the 16th century. Despite the intensity, however, we know today that these gods were completely imaginary. The Aztecs were insane to be murdering people for their gods. Killing a person has no effect on rainfall or anything else. We all know that. If the Aztec gods were real, we would still be offering sacrifices to them.

Today's "God" is just as imaginary as were these historical gods. The fact that millions of people worship a god is meaningless.

The "God" and the "Jesus" that Christians worship today are actually amalgams formed out of ancient pagan gods. The idea of a "virgin birth", "burial in a rock tomb", "resurrection after 3 days" and "eating of body and drinking of blood" had nothing to do with Jesus. All of the rituals in Christianity are completely man-made. Christianity is a snow ball that rolled over a dozen pagan religions. As the snowball grew, it freely attached pagan rituals in order to be more palatable to converts. You can find accounts like these in popular literature:

"The vestiges of pagan religion in Christian symbology are undeniable. Egyptian sun disks became the halos of Catholic saints. Pictograms of Isis nursing her miraculously conceived son Horus became the blueprint for our modern images of the Virgin Mary nursing Baby Jesus. And virtually all the elements of the Catholic ritual - the miter, the altar, the doxology, and communion, the act of "God-eating" - were taken directly from earlier pagan mystery religions."

"Nothing in Christianity is original. The pre-Christian God Mithras - called the Son of God and the Light of the World - was born on December 25, died, was buried in a rock tomb, and then resurrected in three days. By the way, December 25 is also the birthday or Osiris, Adonis, and Dionysus. The newborn Krishna was presented with gold, frankincense, and myrrh. Even Christianity's weekly holy day was stolen from the pagans."
It is extremely hard for a Christian believer to process this data, but nonetheless it is true. All of the "sacred rituals" of Christianity, and all of Christianity's core beliefs (virgin birth, resurrection, etc.) come straight from pagan religions that were popular around the time of Jesus. Articles like this and this can help you learn more. Once you understand the fundamental truth of Christianity's origins, the silliness of this whole thing becomes apparent.
Obviously the pagan believers, from whom Christianity derived its myths, worshipped gods that were imaginary. And thus our "God" today is just an extension of these imaginary forerunners. All human gods are imaginary.



But when you think about, no religion is really original because basically everyone got their idea from someone else.
Posted 3/14/09

Allhailodin wrote:


XxBillyxNoBS wrote:


Yei wrote:


XxBillyxNoBS wrote:

EXACTLY! }:O See thank you for that stupid Yei person being a hater!
Btw if your not tolerant of other religions or bliefts then Don't Post seriously.


I've never really been bothered by extremely religious people trying to convert me and I've never been bothered the slightest bit by anyone trying to impose their religious beliefs on me. All the religious people I've discussed things with are very respectful and understanding and intelligent...

But some of the atheists I come across.....

I don't even wanna bother.


Fine I'm sorry if i made you feel bad but you guys don't understand what i'm trying to say.
I'm not converting you and i don't want to I don't want to make you feel bad and stuff.

I'MS ORRY TO THOSE WHO THINK I'M PROBABLY AN AZZ AND STUFF BUT ALL I'M TRYING TO PROVE IS MY THEORY.


You know off topic here but i really dont care, ima point this out to you : if you make someone else feel bad thats 100% their problem, same thing if you offend someone, 100% their problem, your not the one who feels bad, they are.


But as for god creating the universe and that crap, it is impossible for god to have created the universe, as, if there was nothing before the universe, and since god is made of matter, that matter cannot have existed if there is no universe for it to exist in. simple as that, something cannot exist if there is no space for it to exist in. that says that god cannot have existed before the universe did, and if thats true, then god would be made of hydrogen as thats what was in the early universe, hydrogen and helium, so god must = hydrogen and helium as all other elements were born from hydrogen and helium, hydrogen is the mother of all life. so logically god must = hydrogen.


So explain the big bang, how did that come to be?

Are you trying to tell me that the universe evolved from nothing?
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Posted 3/14/09 , edited 3/14/09

Gaia93 wrote:


Allhailodin wrote:


XxBillyxNoBS wrote:


Yei wrote:


XxBillyxNoBS wrote:

EXACTLY! }:O See thank you for that stupid Yei person being a hater!
Btw if your not tolerant of other religions or bliefts then Don't Post seriously.


I've never really been bothered by extremely religious people trying to convert me and I've never been bothered the slightest bit by anyone trying to impose their religious beliefs on me. All the religious people I've discussed things with are very respectful and understanding and intelligent...

But some of the atheists I come across.....

I don't even wanna bother.


Fine I'm sorry if i made you feel bad but you guys don't understand what i'm trying to say.
I'm not converting you and i don't want to I don't want to make you feel bad and stuff.

I'MS ORRY TO THOSE WHO THINK I'M PROBABLY AN AZZ AND STUFF BUT ALL I'M TRYING TO PROVE IS MY THEORY.


You know off topic here but i really dont care, ima point this out to you : if you make someone else feel bad thats 100% their problem, same thing if you offend someone, 100% their problem, your not the one who feels bad, they are.


But as for god creating the universe and that crap, it is impossible for god to have created the universe, as, if there was nothing before the universe, and since god is made of matter, that matter cannot have existed if there is no universe for it to exist in. simple as that, something cannot exist if there is no space for it to exist in. that says that god cannot have existed before the universe did, and if thats true, then god would be made of hydrogen as thats what was in the early universe, hydrogen and helium, so god must = hydrogen and helium as all other elements were born from hydrogen and helium, hydrogen is the mother of all life. so logically god must = hydrogen.


So explain the big bang, how did that come to be?

Are you trying to tell me that the universe evolved from nothing?


Well it could have come from the collapse on another universe. All the matter of the other universe collapsed into itself, then exploded as hydrogen and helium and created our universe. Or my theory that the universe is just a small bubble in a ocean of nothingness, and that bubble got created somehow. There are lots of ways it could have happened, but unless we find some way to look back in time, we will never truly know. But I do know that everything you see around you was created by thermonuclear fusion inside of a star made of hydrogen and helium. So I can say that hydrogen and helium is the ultimate creator of life. That is certain. But what I'm asking is how could god have existed before the universe did, god is made of matter, matter cannot exist if it does not have a place to exist in. Thus "god" cannot have existed before the universe did, and since the early universe was hydrogen and helium, the creator of everything, it's safe to assume that god = hydrogen + helium.
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Posted 3/14/09

Gaia93 wrote:


XxBillyxNoBS wrote:

Going on w/ my proof!

The belief in "god" seems to be ubiquitous through the ages.

We know, for example, that the ancient Egyptians believed in their gods so fervently that they built massive structures like the Great Pyramid -- still today one of the largest and most enduring human constructions ever created. Despite that fervor, however, we know with complete certainty today that the Egyptian gods were imaginary. We don't build pyramids anymore and we do not mummify our leaders.

More recently we know that tens of millions of Romans worshiped Jupiter and his friends, and to them they built magnificent temples. The ruins of these temples are popular tourist attractions even today. Yet we know with complete certainty that these gods were imaginary because no one worships Zeus any more.

Much more recently, we know that the Aztec civilization believed in their gods so intensely that they constructed huge temples and pyramids. In addition, Aztecs were so zealous that they were sacrificing hundreds of human beings to their gods as recently as the 16th century. Despite the intensity, however, we know today that these gods were completely imaginary. The Aztecs were insane to be murdering people for their gods. Killing a person has no effect on rainfall or anything else. We all know that. If the Aztec gods were real, we would still be offering sacrifices to them.

Today's "God" is just as imaginary as were these historical gods. The fact that millions of people worship a god is meaningless.

The "God" and the "Jesus" that Christians worship today are actually amalgams formed out of ancient pagan gods. The idea of a "virgin birth", "burial in a rock tomb", "resurrection after 3 days" and "eating of body and drinking of blood" had nothing to do with Jesus. All of the rituals in Christianity are completely man-made. Christianity is a snow ball that rolled over a dozen pagan religions. As the snowball grew, it freely attached pagan rituals in order to be more palatable to converts. You can find accounts like these in popular literature:

"The vestiges of pagan religion in Christian symbology are undeniable. Egyptian sun disks became the halos of Catholic saints. Pictograms of Isis nursing her miraculously conceived son Horus became the blueprint for our modern images of the Virgin Mary nursing Baby Jesus. And virtually all the elements of the Catholic ritual - the miter, the altar, the doxology, and communion, the act of "God-eating" - were taken directly from earlier pagan mystery religions."

"Nothing in Christianity is original. The pre-Christian God Mithras - called the Son of God and the Light of the World - was born on December 25, died, was buried in a rock tomb, and then resurrected in three days. By the way, December 25 is also the birthday or Osiris, Adonis, and Dionysus. The newborn Krishna was presented with gold, frankincense, and myrrh. Even Christianity's weekly holy day was stolen from the pagans."
It is extremely hard for a Christian believer to process this data, but nonetheless it is true. All of the "sacred rituals" of Christianity, and all of Christianity's core beliefs (virgin birth, resurrection, etc.) come straight from pagan religions that were popular around the time of Jesus. Articles like this and this can help you learn more. Once you understand the fundamental truth of Christianity's origins, the silliness of this whole thing becomes apparent.
Obviously the pagan believers, from whom Christianity derived its myths, worshipped gods that were imaginary. And thus our "God" today is just an extension of these imaginary forerunners. All human gods are imaginary.



But when you think about, no religion is really original because basically everyone got their idea from someone else.


Well that's not exactly true, i'd say religion goes back to when man worshipped the sun and moon, that would be the very first religion.
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No God is an entity created by the minds of beings in order to give meaning to their lives. It's a psychological entity made because people cannot fathom the concept of a meaningless life that ends at death. The mind does not allow us to live without answers, people seek answers through faith or reasoning of a sorts.
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