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gundam 00 or gundam seed?
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Posted 4/1/09
gundam 00
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Posted 4/1/09

godamfire wrote:



Whoah that's a long essay... Gundam 00 is more realistic coz they have limits and they're not invincible. How many times they're almost captured? How many times did they relied on a strategy? It seems that you're referring to the second season of Gundam 00. If you read the last part of my first post on this topic I said that I don't want to discuss the second season of both series coz they both sux but you continue anyway... So, I'll isolate the unrealistic way of SEED in season 1 coz season 2 is much worse.

I shall quote myself with what I said to the first one who flamed my post:


Then, Gundam Seed first season, oh a phase shift makes a Gundam impervious with conventional weapons. How can a colored Gundam do that?! They don't even employ a strategy nor need it coz Kira will just blast all his way through. They don't even specify what kind of "magical" fuel they use. They made nuclear weapons useless because of neutron cancellers, how can that cancel nuclear reactions? Is there such a thing? Then they made a neutron canceller canceller (forgot what they call it) w/c powers Freedom, Justice and Providence, how did that contraption work?! Three pilots stole three Gundams made by the Earth Federation, why isn't there a pilot lock or any security system to prevent it?! If Kira was the sole ultimate coordinator, why did Athrun have the same SHING thingy that is supposed to be exclusive to "the ultimate coordinator". Is there a shortage of men in ORB that's why only girls pilot the Astray mobile suits?


How can you explain/answer these?

Yes there's the topic about GN particles that's why I'll not question the "magical fuel" used by Gundams in SEED.


First, the whole thing about beeings. Coordinator are geneticly improved beeing over natural, now looking it at biologicly, you can has a better children by has good genese right, so that sounds reasonable enough to me.


Then how did the naturals made the first Gundams considering that the Coordinators were more intelligent than them? They made not only one, but five Gundams and the four were just stolen. Why is the Earth Forces not intelligent enough to make a pilot security system? Second, why did the Earth forces deployed beam rifles first than Coordinators?


However, a human can control other's through the mind and from far away (like what Ribon does to Harvey) seems arkward and not realistic. People is not a machine so this point seems pretty much out of place.


Second Season


Secondly, about the character. I believe the Seed series did a much better job at character development whereas Gundam 00 does not deal much with it and so put out a battle in every episode to make up or to cover up the lack in character development through great, shining, well done and interesting battles.


Do you ever watch war movies? If so, how can you put character development into place considering the actions? What do you like about Gundam? All the drama or the action? Considering that Gundam SEED had 50 episodes compared to 25 for Gundam 00's 1st season's 25, how can you squeeze character development there? Again, did you watch Gundam for the drama or the action? I watch Gundam for the action, btw.


Thus, the Seed series has rich viriaties of background music in it which attribute nicely in the emotionally engaging style of Seed. Not only the background music of the battles, they also have many piano songs which is very nice an amazing and actually absorb a person into the movie. To add in, Lacus has much better personality than Marina. She can be very solf during the peaceful time and can be stronger than anyone during the time of battle. Thus Lacus sings many great songs. In any side, Lacus is dominated and this is the fact.


Yeah I admit, Gundam SEED's music is much better than 00 that's why it's full of drama. Lacus btw is a Minmay clone. How can she command a battle ship? Are all coordinators born with it?


About the Gundams, i have to admit that Gundam 00 did a amazing job at constructing and designing the Gundams, they looks GREAT. Yet, looking back at the time Seed was airing, it was something too. The fact that advanced in technology help bring about those shiny and sharp edged gundams you all see in 00 is the reason why you look down on the Gundams of Seed and this cannot be blame because they are in different time. Think this if Seed would air in the same time as 00, which one would you choose if Seed has similar beautifully look gundams and amazing battle fight like 00?


About the Gundam 00's MS looking better than Gundam Seed's, I never mentioned that I prefer the Gundams of 00 than SEED. Actually I love the design of Strike Gundam than Exia and 00.


the last thing. DONT EVER CONPLAIN ABOUT KIRA!! i have heard many said "Kira is a freak and he dominate battles", "...shoot all the enemy". Then how would you answer when someone say "Setsuna is a freak when he use Transarm and fly like a light, no way can beat him, what BS" Each Gundam has their special ability, Freedom is to shoot multiple targets efficiently and to dominate with long range while 00 dominate with speed in short range with Transarm. And dont ever ask which one is faster because it is a never ending debate. You can say 00 is faster in transarm and also in normal thanks to twin drives but another can argues "Freedom has constant fast speed thanks to the nuclear power and its can even increase its speed through minutes thanks to the Voiture Lumire in the Wings when activated DRAGOONS. Each one has their special and so dont go too far and destroy or humilitate others' heroes.


Gundam 00 with Raiser: Second Season

Kira's Strike Gundam was nice. I love the way he berzerked using Aile Strike Gundam against Bacoues (forgot the spelling). It was actually nostalgic considering that SEED was a remake of the original MSG. When Freedom came, all my hopes for SEED has diminished. Oh yeah look at Kira he does this SHING and every enemy around him are blown to pieces. If the Coordinators are renowned with having superior intelligence, why didn't they thought of a pilot security system? I think the easiest way to have a Gundam is... TO STEAL ONE!!! How did Athrun have the SHING ability again if Kira was the only ultimate Coordinator?

Transam system has a limit, which is realistic enough for me. Kira and Freedom has no limits nor weaknesses, so unrealistic.


So to sum up, i really believe the 00 series is very good and worthseeing yet, Seed seems like a statue in the Gundam history that reaches very high and i think is better than others and it is the only gundam series that ever live such a big impression in me that would actually makes me like Gundams that much.


Yeah Gundam Seed was also memorable to me. I had three 1/144 HG kits from the series. But since Freedom got into the picture, it ruined everything just like how 00 and its raiser ruined Gundam 00 second season. I think if Sunrise want to make a remake of MSG with Gundam SEED they should have stuck with Strike Gundam instead of introducing more crappy overpowered Gundams like Freedom just to sell kits. Bandai has a very evil influence on Gundam Seed and 00.
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Posted 4/1/09
Gundam 00 was my favourite.
Posted 4/1/09
Gundam 00 coz its more realistic when it comes to the fact that Gundams are not invincible, and superior strategies/tactics are needed to win the day. !!



Whoah that's a long essay... Gundam 00 is more realistic coz they have limits and they're not invincible. How many times they're almost captured? How many times did they relied on a strategy? It seems that you're referring to the second season of Gundam 00. If you read the last part of my first post on this topic I said that I don't want to discuss the second season of both series coz they both sux but you continue anyway... So, I'll isolate the unrealistic way of SEED in season 1 coz season 2 is much worse.


Yes there's the topic about GN particles that's why I'll not question the "magical fuel" used by Gundams in SEED.



Then how did the naturals made the first Gundams considering that the Coordinators were more intelligent than them? They made not only one, but five Gundams and the four were just stolen. Why is the Earth Forces not intelligent enough to make a pilot security system? Second, why did the Earth forces deployed beam rifles first than Coordinators?


However, a human can control other's through the mind and from far away (like what Ribon does to Harvey) seems arkward and not realistic. People is not a machine so this point seems pretty much out of place.


Second Season


Secondly, about the character. I believe the Seed series did a much better job at character development whereas Gundam 00 does not deal much with it and so put out a battle in every episode to make up or to cover up the lack in character development through great, shining, well done and interesting battles.


Do you ever watch war movies? If so, how can you put character development into place considering the actions? What do you like about Gundam? All the drama or the action? Considering that Gundam SEED had 50 episodes compared to 25 for Gundam 00's 1st season's 25, how can you squeeze character development there? Again, did you watch Gundam for the drama or the action? I watch Gundam for the action, btw.


Yeah I admit, Gundam SEED's music is much better than 00 that's why it's full of drama. Lacus btw is a Minmay clone. How can she command a battle ship? Are all coordinators born with it?


About the Gundams, i have to admit that Gundam 00 did a amazing job at constructing and designing the Gundams, they looks GREAT. Yet, looking back at the time Seed was airing, it was something too. The fact that advanced in technology help bring about those shiny and sharp edged gundams you all see in 00 is the reason why you look down on the Gundams of Seed and this cannot be blame because they are in different time. Think this if Seed would air in the same time as 00, which one would you choose if Seed has similar beautifully look gundams and amazing battle fight like 00?


About the Gundam 00's MS looking better than Gundam Seed's, I never mentioned that I prefer the Gundams of 00 than SEED. Actually I love the design of Strike Gundam than Exia and 00.

Gundam 00 with Raiser: Second Season

Kira's Strike Gundam was nice. I love the way he berzerked using Aile Strike Gundam against Bacoues (forgot the spelling). It was actually nostalgic considering that SEED was a remake of the original MSG. When Freedom came, all my hopes for SEED has diminished. Oh yeah look at Kira he does this SHING and every enemy around him are blown to pieces. If the Coordinators are renowned with having superior intelligence, why didn't they thought of a pilot security system? I think the easiest way to have a Gundam is... TO STEAL ONE!!! How did Athrun have the SHING ability again if Kira was the only ultimate Coordinator?


Yeah Gundam Seed was also memorable to me. I had three 1/144 HG kits from the series. But since Freedom got into the picture, it ruined everything just like how 00 and its raiser ruined Gundam 00 second season. I think if Sunrise want to make a remake of MSG with Gundam SEED they should have stuck with Strike Gundam instead of introducing more crappy overpowered Gundams like Freedom just to sell kits. Bandai has a very evil influence on Gundam Seed and 00.

First, i would like to apologies if you misunderstood that because the long part essay is for general people, i did not intend to spam you.

To say again, each one has their own interest right? So if you are to find action in Gundam, i would like to see both drama and action in Gundam so i say that and to be perfectly honest as well.
Again, i did intend to argue about this but i did not say i prefer 00 either, i was trying to say that they make it more 3d and shiny and stuff.

Posted 4/2/09 , edited 4/2/09

Then, Gundam Seed first season, oh a phase shift makes a Gundam impervious with conventional weapons. How can a colored Gundam do that?! They don't even employ a strategy nor need it coz Kira will just blast all his way through. They don't even specify what kind of "magical" fuel they use. They made nuclear weapons useless because of neutron cancellers, how can that cancel nuclear reactions? Is there such a thing? Then they made a neutron canceller canceller (forgot what they call it) w/c powers Freedom, Justice and Providence, how did that contraption work?! Three pilots stole three Gundams made by the Earth Federation, why isn't there a pilot lock or any security system to prevent it?! If Kira was the sole ultimate coordinator, why did Athrun have the same SHING thingy that is supposed to be exclusive to "the ultimate coordinator". Is there a shortage of men in ORB that's why only girls pilot the Astray mobile suits?


However i dont agrree on this one. I respect your idea and that you reply to me. Now here is my thought on this matter. Regarding the lock on the Gundam you was talking about,havent you forgot that the Gundam was still in the time of experiment, not finish, said by Murue herself, Thus, Mu said that the Natural guys who were suppose to pilot those could not it full efficiency, so hard to them even to move, not to mention create a lock complicated enough to block the Coordinator and remember, they was suprise attacked by the Coordinator. This is why i think it makes sense. Same thing to Freedom, even if there are a lock, he can open it cause his computer skills are better than anyone, not to mention the fact that the Freedom was Top secret of Zaft and probably hardest to get hands on because of the security but that's why Lacus comes into play. I dont want to mention if you dont like the S2 but the Strike Freedom and the Infinite Justice is stolen before the second war even started so it is 100% in constructing stage, not to even think of locking password. If you think about it, the nuclear bomb is anyway has to have a chip or system right so if the system is jam then no way the nuclear can be detonated.

YOu mentioned the point why the Natural would has Gudams before the Coordinator while Coordinator are suppose to be intelligently superior? And the beam guns also. Now recall about the Bucue, no not that far, Miguel's Ginn, didnt it equip with a highly compressed and strong beam guns that use to destroy Colony? Then dont you agree that Coordinator has the beam gun first? since Ginn are pretty much the first generation mass production mobile suit in Seed.

Minnay clone so what, i prefer Lacus because she has stronger characteristic. Again, i respect you likes of anycharacter so i ment no offense
Another fact that: you never heard that Lacus is the captain of the Enternal, do you? Never, Watfield was the captain, was you mistood or forgot that somehow.

Again, i think you did not gather enough fact to say so. Seed mode is what you referring to right? It is officially said by the producer that anyone that is given the Seed mode is like a inborn special talent that helps them use the mobile suit to its best and the best stategy to win in battle, that's why i said normal tactics does not work in real time battle and in this case, they dont need one, to be honest, they does but shown very little details in the series. Anyway, because it is like a special ability like newtype, not only one can posseses it, many can possess it if they has something i want to protect to trigger it but sometimes it about revenge which was the case in the battle between Athrun and Kira and they basicly loose their conscious,nothing more in their head other than killing each other. which is mostly the case for Shin where he goes crazy and like a beast to kill his target, out of control, that's why he almost killed Luna if Athrun did not infercept him. Anyway, Kira is the ultimate coordinator which is why he is better than any other ONLY in mobile suits pilot.

Again, Freedom isnt like its has no weakness, didnt you see that even Kira has trouble dealing with the 3 gundams calamity, forbidden and Raider. And i know you might like only the strike but i like every gundam of Kira and Athrun but yet also feel pissed of by Sunrise why they repeated the move in battles so many times after the first season which leads to the downfall in the battle of Season 2.




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Posted 4/2/09

godamfire wrote:





However i dont agrree on this one. I respect your idea and that you reply to me. Now here is my thought on this matter. Regarding the lock on the Gundam you was talking about, didnt you forgot that the Gundam was still in the time of experiment, not finish, said by Murue herself, Thus, Mu said that the Natural guys who were suppose to pilot those could not it full efficiency, so hard to them even to move, not to mention create a lock complicated enough to block the Coordinator and remember, they was suprise attacked by the Coordinator. This is why i think it makes sense


So, they made Gundams in Neutral territory, and in secret. Didn't they expect something like this? Why aren't they prepared for this? How did the Coordinators got the info in the first place? The Earth Defense forces can make any form of security system even a physical one while a gundam is on a "transport". But no, they just left it out in the open waiting for someone to ride and hack it. Pure genius.


YOu mentioned the point why the Natural would has Gudams before the Coordinator while Coordinator are suppose to be intelligently superior? And the beam guns also. Now recall about the Bucue, no not that far, Miguel's Ginn, didnt it equip with a highly compressed and strong beam guns that use to destroy Colony? Then dont you agree that Coordinator has the beam gun first? since Ginn are pretty much the first generation mass production mobile suit in Seed.


What the difference between a beam rifle and beam guns? Portability, size and mass production. That's why Strike Dagger's beam rifles were so deadly against GINNs which are mostly equipped with metal bullets. The Coordinators made the first Mobile suit, they're the pioneers, then why didn't they first made an improved version which is a Gundam? Maybe Coordinators were not that smart to have thought of a Gundam or they were just happy with the stalemate situation before the Gundams were discovered, plain stupidity in war.


Another fact that: you never heard that Lacus is the captain of the Enternal, do you? Never, Watfield was the captain, was you mistood or forgot that somehow.


So, whatever Lacus's rank in the Eternal, she's just there at the helm ordering attacks etc, are all coordinators born with such ability to command a ship the first time and without previous training? All I know about Lacus is she knows how to sing very well, but command a ship? They must be joking! They just stole the Eternal right? The Eternal was not meant for Lacus right? Except if being a daughter of the formal chairman will give you such privileges, ZAFT was so generous. And not only the ship, it also included METEOR add-ons for Freedom and Justice! How convenient!!!


Again, i think you did not gather enough fact to say so. Seed mode is what you referring to right? It is officially said by the producer that anyone that is given the Seed mode is like a inborn special talent that helps them use the mobile suit to its best and the best stategy to win in battle, that's why i said normal tactics does not work in real time battle and in this case, they dont need one, to be honest, they does but shown very little details in the series.


So it's called SEED mode now, then why isn't every damn Coordinator have one like Dearca and the other guy? Does that mean they didn't have the same special talents? Maybe Coordinators were not as superior as they seem. Why is it only exclusive to Athrun and Kira? Well maybe I misunderstood coz having such ability like, in your term, SEED mode must be exclusive and unique to the ultimate coordinator who is Kira. But no, Arthrun also have one, why? I dunno, why don't you ask the producers who want to sell more kits of Justice?


that's why i said normal tactics does not work in real time battle


Btw, I remembered you said something like this:


Thus as Lelouch said Even Stategy does not work against real time batlle skill!


Ugh, was that correct? I thought Lelouch considered strategy is much superior than tactics in which I fully agree. And didn't you just rephrased what you've said? Tactics btw is implemented in real time battles, the strategy is implemented to the overall campaign. Don't confuse the other.


Again, Freedom isnt like its has no weakness, didnt you see that even Kira has trouble dealing with the 3 gundams calamity, forbidden and Raider.


Having difficulty being ganged up by three Gundams is not considered a weakness.

Please don't divert the topic, can you please explain about Phase Shift? How does a color change made a Gundam impervious to conventional weapons? Huwaw, if only the Celestial Beings thought of that they might not have a difficult time. How about Neutron cancellers? How can it prevent nuclear reactions? That kind of knowledge can be used for the betterment of mankind in stopping a nuclear war! And the Neutron canceller canceller which made nuclear power possible for Freedom Justice and Providence. How did they come up with that?! Btw, why isn't there a security system for Freedom? The Coordinators developed Freedom, why didn't they made a security system considering the power of the Gundam they made. Why didn't they developed a counter strategy against it? They made it so they can unmade it.

Sorry if I lack the proper knowledge and detail about SEED. I do watch other anime's and Gundam SEED was so long ago to be remembered in detail. I also play PSP games and study while working so that really screws up my memory of Gundam SEED. Again, Gundam SEED was good until they introduced Freedom.
Posted 4/2/09
Now first, they did not prepair, that's why those Coordinator guys come to stole the Gundam called them Stupid, remember, they were too rely on the fact that it is a neutral base.
Again, i think you forgot some points which i dont blame you and you has nothing to be blamed for ^^. The coordinator thought that normal mobile suits would be enough and so did not create a Gundam, not like they dont capable of doing so. Since before the Gundams created, the Coordinators was using Mobile suits against aircrafts and tanks, that's there advantage so the Natural wants to turn the table up side down by creating Gundams which they could not even manage to use. And this is called a war, remember, even the coordinator and the natural have betrayal like Rau and Azrael trade their information about the Alaska base. In a war, you will always see information leek and betrayal , Same anywhere, anytime so not surprise about the information.

If you say that then answer me if the Ginn cannot kill a strike Dagger? even the bullets of Ginn can pierce throgh the Strike Daggers armour and this is the weakness of mass production prototype mobile suits. And the points you make about the Phase shift armor, it is for the Gundam to use its own energy and generate fields like armor and protect itself from the metal swords and normal bullets, which also has weakness its the beam.
Again, didnt you read my words, i wrote Lacus was not a captain so why bother bring out the whole point of her commanding Enternal? this does not makes sense. And Eternal was the ship of Zaft designed to carry the Freedom and Justice with special equipment, the METEOR, thats why they stole the ship. this's reason right.
Ah, sorry if i didnot make myself clear, Seed mode is not exclusive for Ultimate Coordinator but for someone significant and need it to change their fate.

And sorry for not quoting it correctly, Not "i said", "i wrote Lelouch said", Yes, totally true that Lelouch by anymeans prefer Stategy but only when Suzaku pops up he said that line. I am positive and has already checked that he said that when Suzaku pops up and change the whole situation of the battle field so Lelouch said that line.

Sorry, i am bad too to make such a lame example, Freedom weakness is also its pilot weakness, its lack of ability to kill a target, (except for Rau) which is why the spoiled brat Shin used that as his advantage and able to destroy the Freedom in S2, even though that was not his strategy, it was Rey who noticed it to begin with.


Sorry if I lack the proper knowledge and detail about SEED. I do watch other anime's and Gundam SEED was so long ago to be remembered in detail. I also play PSP games and study while working so that really screws up my memory of Gundam SEED. Again, Gundam SEED was good until they introduced Freedom.


It is ok, i am grateful that you stick with me and my long post and even though your point of view is different i respect those because everyone has different thoughts on similar matter.
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Posted 4/2/09

godamfire wrote:



They were not prepared and didn't even made at least a physical barrier to deny access to the cockpit while the Gundams were in transport "in secret" in a neutral base. Utter stupidity. I wonder if experimental tanks, vehicles and airplanes IRL share the same stupidity.

Were the Coordinators satisfied with the stalemate? With their superior intelligence they can make a Gundam to turn the tide in their favor, if not, make a better one much sooner. They even captured the Earth Force's Gundams yet they didn't keep it in a lab to study it to create better Gundams much faster. So unrealistic.

Information leaks about a secret project that makes Gundams in a neutral base, so sloppy. There were lots of secret projects made in history which were not discovered due to misinformation. Guess that the Earth forces were intelligent enough to create Gundams but not intelligent enough to hide a secret... that just sux.

I didn't say that GINNs can't kill a Dagger, a Dagger is more efficient in pwning GINNs than the other way around coz of its beam rifle. Btw, Daggers also have a shield which can protect itself against projectiles and is more agile than the bulky and slow GINN. GINNs were also mass produced am I right? After knowing this, and defeating the first introduction of Daggers with EMP they didn't stole the beam rifles and developed their very own beam rifles, stupidity.

Phase shift, a Gundam making its own force field with its energy, so unrealistic. Gundamnium alloy from Gundam Wing is much believable. Idk what constitutes the armor of Gundam 00's Gundams, but it's much realistic than the Phase Shift of SEED.

If Lacus is not the commanding officer of the ship, why was she at the helm and ordering attacks? If she's not the commanding officer she should be in her quarters singing to a robot bird or to a talking and annoying robot ball.

If SEED mode was not exclusive for the ultimate coordinator, what made Kira unique? What's the use of being the ultimate coordinator if Kira don't have a unique ability? There are lots of coordinators who need to change their fate, why didn't all of them have their own seed mode? Maybe SEED mode was exclusive for the main protagonists, way to go Sunrise!

About the strategy/tactics discussion, this is the reason why I hate mecha animes sometimes. IRL was there a special tank or jet that was 2x faster, 2x stronger and 2x whatever than the ordinary mass produced tanks and jets? Well in Gundam 00, the HRL, Union, and EU uses mass produced suits which is realistic. Then came the Gundams which are specialized. They were surprised of the Gundams luckly, someone betrayed the Celestial Beings and gave them GN-X. Even though the Gundams in 00 were superior, they have a very big weakness common with every specialized group, numbers. Vast manpower, resources and strategies almost captured and/or annihilated the Gundams. This made Gundam 00 more realistic than SEED.

Lastly,


It is ok, i am grateful that you stick with me and my long post and even though your point of view is different i respect those because everyone has different thoughts on similar matter.


Well if you did respect other's opinions including mine, this discussion will never happen coz you'll not question my opinion and my preference that Gundam 00 is more realistic than SEED. Again, if I have anything against SEED it was only limited to Freedom. I really don't care about the Gundams being stolen over and over again. Or the whimsical phase shift. Not even the thing that prevents nuclear reactions. Freedom ruined my Gundam SEED experience because of its unrealistic SHING = blast everything in a 500 mile radius.
Posted 4/2/09

Kill099 wrote:


godamfire wrote:



They were not prepared and didn't even made at least a physical barrier to deny access to the cockpit while the Gundams were in transport "in secret" in a neutral base. Utter stupidity. I wonder if experimental tanks, vehicles and airplanes IRL share the same stupidity.

Were the Coordinators satisfied with the stalemate? With their superior intelligence they can make a Gundam to turn the tide in their favor, if not, make a better one much sooner. They even captured the Earth Force's Gundams yet they didn't keep it in a lab to study it to create better Gundams much faster. So unrealistic.

Information leaks about a secret project that makes Gundams in a neutral base, so sloppy. There were lots of secret projects made in history which were not discovered due to misinformation. Guess that the Earth forces were intelligent enough to create Gundams but not intelligent enough to hide a secret... that just sux.

I didn't say that GINNs can't kill a Dagger, a Dagger is more efficient in pwning GINNs than the other way around coz of its beam rifle. Btw, Daggers also have a shield which can protect itself against projectiles and is more agile than the bulky and slow GINN. GINNs were also mass produced am I right? After knowing this, and defeating the first introduction of Daggers with EMP they didn't stole the beam rifles and developed their very own beam rifles, stupidity.

Phase shift, a Gundam making its own force field with its energy, so unrealistic. Gundamnium alloy from Gundam Wing is much believable. Idk what constitutes the armor of Gundam 00's Gundams, but it's much realistic than the Phase Shift of SEED.

If Lacus is not the commanding officer of the ship, why was she at the helm and ordering attacks? If she's not the commanding officer she should be in her quarters singing to a robot bird or to a talking and annoying robot ball.

If SEED mode was not exclusive for the ultimate coordinator, what made Kira unique? What's the use of being the ultimate coordinator if Kira don't have a unique ability? There are lots of coordinators who need to change their fate, why didn't all of them have their own seed mode? Maybe SEED mode was exclusive for the main protagonists, way to go Sunrise!

About the strategy/tactics discussion, this is the reason why I hate mecha animes sometimes. IRL was there a special tank or jet that was 2x faster, 2x stronger and 2x whatever than the ordinary mass produced tanks and jets? Well in Gundam 00, the HRL, Union, and EU uses mass produced suits which is realistic. Then came the Gundams which are specialized. They were surprised of the Gundams luckly, someone betrayed the Celestial Beings and gave them GN-X. Even though the Gundams in 00 were superior, they have a very big weakness common with every specialized group, numbers. Vast manpower, resources and strategies almost captured and/or annihilated the Gundams. This made Gundam 00 more realistic than SEED.

Lastly,


It is ok, i am grateful that you stick with me and my long post and even though your point of view is different i respect those because everyone has different thoughts on similar matter.


Well if you did respect other's opinions including mine, this discussion will never happen coz you'll not question my opinion and my preference that Gundam 00 is more realistic than SEED. Again, if I have anything against SEED it was only limited to Freedom. I really don't care about the Gundams being stolen over and over again. Or the whimsical phase shift. Not even the thing that prevents nuclear reactions. Freedom ruined my Gundam SEED experience because of its unrealistic SHING = blast everything in a 500 mile radius.

Oh, then you say that like GN field is realistic, i dont think so. Maybe only me. Oh and your saying about seed mode exclusive for the main character sounds reasonable, ok thanks, Sunrise.
About the putting Gundam into lab thing isnt neccesary since you know the techology use in the Freedom and Justice are the upgraded and put some of Zaft technology into it. so i will say gundam data can be transfer since the gundams were stolen so does not needed to put them in the lab.
Oh, the armor of Gundam 00's gundams are Carbon metal which i dont think to be good. I dont think carbon can be make into metal and can withstand compressed lazer beam attack like the gundams in 00 does so i cant go with that.
Again, the fact that i want to debate does not telll you that i dont respect your point, what i said was that i has my own thinking in the matter and did not agree with some. And if you pay attention to my post, i said the long essay was for people in general, i did not intend to spam you but you quote that and respond, still nothing wrong since i like debate. And from the begining, i was only trying to defense my point of view, so it is not true that i dont respect your point.


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Posted 4/2/09

godamfire wrote:



GN field was realistic enough for it to be limited with the remaining particles and for the pilot to disengage the field to shoot. Phase shift on the other hand, don't even decrease through time, only deactivated when its low bat time for the Gundam, it was a skin of a metal object... so whimsical.

SEED mode being exclusive for the main characters were a ploy to make Freedom and Justice much cooler than it should be, hence, would sell more kits! Kudos to the marketing department of Bandai!

Didn't I say that if they put it in a lab they can develop a Gundam much faster? How many episodes before the Freedom and Justice was made? That wasn't fast enough. Btw, even real weapons captured from the enemy stayed in the lab for further analysis and they didn't sent it to fight the enemy to announce that they have stolen the enemy's technology!!! If further analysis from a lab was not needed, they should have created more gundams before releasing the prototype, or in this case, the captured Gundam for battle. Coordinators, not as smart as they should be. Also, why didn't they improved the four captured Gundams with Coordinator magic?

Did anyone from Gundam 00 said that the armor was made or Carbon metal? All I know is they just don't know and they want to capture a Gundam for further analysis. Did you watch how the Gundams in 00 were not invincible? They don't get destroyed easily unlike the mass produced ones but this weakness made them realistic enough compared to a Phase Shift field which makes the Gundams impervious with conventional weapons. Didn't I say that this point made Gundam 00 much realistic than SEED? About Carbon steel, IRL there are lots of metals in development, there are lots of metallic alloys to combine. Even Titanium wan't found in nature, it's an alloy made in a lab! So you can't say nor you don't have an expertise to say that someday we can't develop a carbon metal that is strong enough to withstand lasers.


And if you pay attention to my post, i said the long essay was for people in general, i did not intend to spam you but you quote that and respond, still nothing wrong since i like debate. And from the begining, i was only trying to defense my point of view, so it is not true that i dont respect your point.


This was not a defense of your beliefs, this was a attack on my opinions. First you quote my post and replied with this:


MORE REALISTIC!?!, are you beeing true to yourselves? I cant seem to get the idea of people can directly link to a computer beeing REALISTIC. The whole beeing called Innovator seemed crazy to me. No offense or detest anyone but JUST for me, i cant seem to absorb that very well you know. Thus as Lelouch said "Even Stategy does not work against real time batlle skill!" and evidence in Gundam00 also prove that they pretty much has no choice but to depend on Setsuna and 00 to win the fight so tactics do not work in time like this.


Don't you call that an attack?

You didn't even specify that the whole essay was made for the general public, I'll quote you on that:

1.

The Reason i believe that Seed series are better than 00 are these
First, the whole thing about beeings. Coordinator are geneticly improved beeing over natural, now looking it at biologicly, you can has a better children by has good genese right, so that sounds reasonable enough to me. However, a human can control other's through the mind and from far away (like what Ribon does to Harvey) seems arkward and not realistic. People is not a machine so this point seems pretty much out of place.


You should put the words "at topic" or at least made a separate post from the one you quote. Putting your opinions after quoting someone is a post that either you agree or you're against the opinion of the post you quoted.

Btw, so saying that these were not realistic was not referring to the earlier post that I made which I said that Gundam 00 is more realistic than SEED?

2. On the first post I said:


Gundam Seed was nice, but after Kira got his hands on Strike Freedom... the series suck. One SHING (the blue diamond or whatever that dissolves on front of his face) = blast all surrounding enemies with laser guns and funnels.


Then you said:


DONT EVER CONPLAIN ABOUT KIRA!! i have heard many said "Kira is a freak and he dominate battles", "...shoot all the enemy". Then how would you answer when someone say "Setsuna is a freak when he use Transarm and fly like a light, no way can beat him, what BS" Each Gundam has their special ability, Freedom is to shoot multiple targets efficiently and to dominate with long range while 00 dominate with speed in short range with Transarm. And dont ever ask which one is faster because it is a never ending debate. You can say 00 is faster in transarm and also in normal thanks to twin drives but another can argues "Freedom has constant fast speed thanks to the nuclear power and its can even increase its speed through minutes thanks to the Voiture Lumire in the Wings when activated DRAGOONS. Each one has their special and so dont go too far and destroy or humilitate others' heroes.


Wasn't this an attack again at my post? Didn't you again refer my post for my views about Gundam Freedom? If not, wasn't this an attack on everyone with the same opinion as mine?

If you respected my opinions, you shouldn't quote it and say something against it in the first place. So to make this simple, I'll make an example:

First I said the earth was round. You didn't agree coz you consider it's spherical but because you respected my opinion, you didn't bother to quote the post and didn't correct me to say that its spherical. In short, quoting my post and going against it was not respectful. It was offensive and was an attack against my opinions. Idk why was there a need to defend your opinions at the expense of mine. I just expressed my thoughts on the matter but you quoted and you bashed all you can.

I also love debates, but this is going stale and boring.
Posted 4/2/09 , edited 4/2/09
Again, the one that you ask if that was an attack on your idea, i was out of my head alright and that really looks like an attack due to the first words i said and which you bombard me with your own attack so that leaves me no choice but maybe it was so obvious that i didnt agree to your idea and write a respond.
Sorry to use some crappy words that i think has pissed you up. And again because i like Gundam seed in general and all so i try to defense it in any aspect like you would do to some anime you like right. Now because you touch on the point of Freedom so many time so i respond it, not that i like the Freedom or anything and i Never mention i like it! Thus i only list the facts that was official listed and all and my own thought and NEVER have i said that 00 or any anime sucks, only you say Seed suck. And again if your thinking that Seed is not as realistic as 00 then let it be, i have nothing more to say because i am the other side and i can never change your mind like you can never change mine, thats all.
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Posted 4/2/09

godamfire wrote:

Again, the one that you ask if that was an attack on your idea, i was out of my head alright and that really looks like an attack due to the first words i said and which you bombard me with your own attack so that leaves me no choice but maybe it was so obvious that i didnt agree to your idea and write a respond.
Sorry to use some crappy words that i think has pissed you up. And again because i like Gundam seed in general and all so i try to defense it in any aspect like you would do to some anime you like right. Now because you touch on the point of Freedom so many time so i respond it, not that i like the Freedom or anything and i Never mention i like it! Thus i only list the facts that was official listed and all and my own thought and NEVER have i said that 00 or any anime sucks, only you say Seed suck. And again if your thinking that Seed is not as realistic as 00 then let it be, i have nothing more to say because i am the other side and i can never change your mind like you can never change mine, thats all.


In war, what the commander felt or even what the general felt doesn't matter, the results are. The words you just said were offensive no matter how you put it. Since you disrespected my opinions, why shouldn't I do the same? I was the one defending my opinions, btw.

Didn't I said that I don't really care about the details of SEED like Gundams stolen, Phase Shifts etc? I only said that Freedom ruined my Gundam experience and its special ability made me think that Gundam SEED was unrealistic. I also said that if Gundam SEED stick with Strike like MSG did to RX-78-2, the series will be much better. I don't hate SEED altogether, I said that my hate was limited to Freedom. If ever I did said that SEED sux, it was because of Freedom. This was the reason why Universal Century fans can't love the new Gundam series because of Gundam BS like Freedom.

You questioned my belief that Gundam 00 was more realistic. Then I responded with my opinions which made SEED unrealistic to justify my reasoning. This made the discussion grew to uncontrollable proportions. If you never had the aim to change my mind, why quote my post? Isn't disagreeing to someone makes you want them to know what's wrong with their opinions?

There is a lesson here, if you want to respect other's post, don't quote and don't disagree with it. If you have other opinions, please be free to express it, but you don't need to bump on other's opinions and spew offensive words. If you really loved a debate, you should not say that you respect other's opinions coz its the opposite of debating. Debating is proving the other side is wrong no matter if your opinions were right or wrong.
Posted 4/2/09
Okay, i get what you ment here and thanks for that post. From now on i will not show mercy or saying respect when entering a debate and to doing the opposite while defense my idea and i will see you again maybe on some other forum about anime.
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Posted 4/2/09

godamfire wrote:

Okay, i get what you ment here and thanks for that post. From now on i will not show mercy or saying respect when entering a debate and to doing the opposite while defense my idea and i will see you again maybe on some other forum about anime.


See you next time. Be careful btw, not showing mercy and being disrespectful will create more enemies for you especially IRL. Being defensive even on a discussion has its benefits like a counter attack. Revealing yourself too soon by attacking and being offensive will reveal weaknesses that your enemy might poke holes at.

I think its much better if you don't debate too much on trivial matters, a mind is a bad thing to waste on such things. Please respect the idea that everyone is entitled to his/her own opinions especially if a thread or forum is not a fact finding research like animes.
Posted 4/3/09 , edited 4/3/09
You know, showing no mercy and disrespectful are different things, although they can easily get mixed together but i know it and will my best to do what i can. Anyway, dont you think that i did put enough fact about Seed into this discussion, actually, i used almost everything i know btw
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