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Sneakislamifying, naive or xenophobia?
67883 cr points
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27 / M / Norway
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Posted 3/23/09 , edited 3/23/09
Currently in news lately there's been loads of issues about migration to Norway and religion, cultures that they bring which may hurt Norway as a nation. Basically, they demand us to change our lives to meet theirs, which I personally think is wrong. This is what I would call sneakislamifying. Already in some countries which used to be based on Christianity, like England have already adapted to Muslim laws because the political correctness is stopping them from saying no. This is also happening in Norway, we almost got Hijab in the police uniform, but the change was reset because there was so much commotion and nobody wanted it.

Here's a list of changes the Muslims have demanded so far
* Less freedom of speech (Blasphemy law)
* Seperate care for the Muslim elders
* Halal-food served in Norwegian prisons
* Alcoholfree days - Some days where no shops can sell alcohol
* Make Muslim holidays national
* Sex-split swimming pools
* Praying in their workspace
* Sharia Courts
* They want their own banks
* Imam education

This is what that have been pointed out as sneakislamifying of Norway. Many of these points have already been approved in Countries such as England and it's starting here in Norway too. So what I ask that; is the current government party too naive and is afraid to be political correct? or is it simply that all the citizen wants it?

The way I look at it is that we have a problem to integrate those whom come from Muslim countries, we pack them up in suburban places and pack them all together so it's hard for them to adapt to the new society they have come to. As of Norway, we do have Ghetto's and Oslo the capital of Norway is filled with them, but mostly just in certain places of Oslo. What I believe is that if we spread them all around the country they would have had it easier to learn the language and fit more into the Norwegian society, but we don't we pack them all in the same place.

Freedom of speech is something Norway managed to obtain in 1814 and I'm proud that I live in a country as good as this. Now they want us to remove some of that little freedom of speech we have left, by re-instating the blasphemy law (Yes, we used to have it, but we have secularized our society so we removed it) and I believe that this is just a start, and more will follow if we give in (at least when it comes to radical Muslims). Our government is made of 3 parties in Norway, two of the parties have worked for a secularized society, but they want to give in and "religify" the country yet again. Are they just hypocrites or are they afraid of being political correct?

When it comes to serving halal-food in prisons I don't think we should. 30 % of the people in Norwegian prisons are made of migrates whom demands special treatment for their illegal crimes. You are there to learn a lesson or something (I haven't been to jail so I don't know). This goes for all religions, not just Muslims. When you serve your time, you sit there and be quiet.

I'll try my best to explain what I know about the Sharia Courts; As I see it is that Islam is not just an religion, it's a political system that does not support freedom of speech and believe in uppression of women. Such judging shall not take one step into Norway, when they cross the Norway border they should leave their old politic system behind and adapt to the laws of Norway works and not try to make us instate a law order which does not support women at all.

They want their own banks that does not have rents, because that's not allowed by their religion or something, I'm not too updated on the subject, so if anyone wanna fill me in, please do!

Now I want you to understand that I did not create this thread to bash Muslims or anything like that, this is something I've wanted to discuss for a very long time, but I haven't had the guts to say anything due to the political correctness throughout the world. Ever since the incident about Hijab in the police uniform, the party "Fremskrittpartiet" in Norway have set critisism of Islam on the daily agenda it is now easier to discuss these things. That's how I feel. Now, I do not know about the situation much in other places than Norway and England so I would like to hear your thoughts on this. I have been reading some on hwo the situation is in the US and I was lead to this movie I found on Youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SoPrMEkz5s

This pretty much explains what's happening in Norway and what might be prevented if the right party comes into the government this year. There have also been made some prognosis on the current flow of immigrants coming into Norway each year (which is about 25,000 each year) then there will be more immigrants in Norway by 2050. This is pretty scary when it comes to ethnic Norwegian. Being a minority in your own country is something I don't want to happen and with fresh Muslim political parties starting up which works for their own agenda gives us an idea of what's happening.

I really want some comments back on this on what you views are, and if you're a Muslim please help me debate this issue!
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66 / M / Croatia
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Posted 3/23/09
Its happening all around Europe. Well, your government gave them permision to stay, so... Anyway theres this Italian author, she has extremist wievs on the situation (had, she is dead, forgot her name, though). She argued that at first muslims came into her city in search of asylum, and then they started to recreate the same regime which they ran away from. Now this is true for lot of immigrants. Then there is question of law: muslims have thier sheriat, which is stronger then secular law, but sheriat is opposite of western views on freedom, especially in European states.
Anyway, yeah, I agree that if you want to come and live in certain country, you must be prepared to uphold their laws and customs. You cant be Norweign Palestinian. You are either citizen of one country or another, you cannot move to one country and then say: this is now Palestine. It is <ok to keep your customs as long as they are not contradictory to the laws of the country where you live. (no unpunishable gang raping for example)
But Europe is loosing battle with muslim refugees and immigrants on their on turf anyways. In some parts of germany, muslims demnaded 1000 year old churches to stop ringing their bells. (they say it bothers them while praying) Imagine what would happen if christians demanded the same in muslim country - to stop the lousy prayers 5 times a day. (of course, they would be killed before they even build the church.)
But Europe needs working power and muslims are only poor pople out there who are willing to come here and lean the streets, and work all that lous jobs europeans dont want to do.
So it is not the question of right and wrong. It is reality, so get used to it.
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26 / M / New York City, NY
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Posted 3/23/09
Church and state are supposedly separate. If they want to cry about it, tough shit. Learn to live in a non-theocracy.
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26 / M / London
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Posted 3/23/09
I think it is happening more and more. It saddens me greatly that people are bowing their heads but also some nationalist parties do not have it correct. I believe people should be expected to assimilate to a new country to a certain extent and not see it as a place where they now happen to stay. I agree with your views.
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23 / F / ireland
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Posted 3/23/09 , edited 3/23/09
We do their stuff when we go to their country,they can do likewise when they come to ours.Although if they make muslim holidays national,is that another day off for everyone?
67883 cr points
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27 / M / Norway
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Posted 3/23/09

leviathan343 wrote:

Church and state are supposedly separate. If they want to cry about it, tough shit. Learn to live in a non-theocracy.


Yes, we are working on a secular country, but we can't do that when the governments are hypocrites.

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27 / M / Norway
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Posted 3/23/09

miserykitsune wrote:

We do their stuff when we go to their country,they can do likewise when they come to ours.Although if they make muslim holidays national,is that another day off for everyone?


No, that would only be for the Muslims.

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23 / F / ireland
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Posted 3/23/09

Cyberpirate wrote:


miserykitsune wrote:

We do their stuff when we go to their country,they can do likewise when they come to ours.Although if they make muslim holidays national,is that another day off for everyone?


No, that would only be for the Muslims.



Aaaawww,well maybe they could trade a diffferent day to take that day off if they wish but it wouldent become national day i think
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24 / M / Terra
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Posted 3/23/09

Cyberpirate wrote:


i do think this shall answer why such stuff happened.

the government of yours, since you did said there were 3 parties, would most likely be republic or democracy kind. and being that kind, the party surely would want more people to vote for them. hence, tons of compromises.

with the muslim immigrants going into your country, it is safe to say it would change the political status of parties... therefore, it is also safe to say that those parties would want the muslim to vote for them. hence, they would give the muslims what they wanted in return for their vote so they can rule. easy to understand? give and take.

there is unlikely any way to stop such crisis from happening due to the fact that it is a "democracy" or "republic". with the majority voting, persons that knows what should be done cannot change anything much.
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117 / F / Somewhere
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Posted 3/24/09 , edited 3/24/09
We have many muslims here, but we've never had those problems here. They respect us and we respect them.
I think they're more interested in dominating Europe instead of other countries.
I think it's too late for a change.
Just get used to it. Sorry.
Posted 3/24/09


Well written and very relevant topic!

I live in Denmark and the situation is pretty much the same, although we aren't getting quite as many immigrants...

I'd hate to sound like a racist, or a moron, but Islam is a "threat" to the national culture to some extent, and the political correctness which should serve to guarantee fairness or justice or understanding or whatever, really is a problem in this connection, cause it doesn't go both ways..

While everyone should be able to believe in whatever god they choose to, the way Islam is interpreted by many of the muslims in Denmark is the suppresing and restricting one, which really is far from what I believe in, or what "we" believe in in Denmark.

I think it's fair that we're open to people of different believes, and allow them to follow their religion to an extent that is within the laws, but I don't think we should allow them to put up demands that are suppressing or restricting, or absurd by our measures. If you choose to live in another country with another set of rules, you'll have to follow those rules and that's that... I don't think anyone from Denmark or Norway would move to Irak and expect to be allowed to get drunk, fuck around, express their homosexuality, claim that Allah didn't exist and so on...

Contrary to many Islamic countries, religion and law doesn't go hand in hand here. While the laws are based on christian believes, the bible doesn't dictate the law as the Coran does, and that's something the immigrants will have to understand and respect.
Posted 3/24/09 , edited 3/24/09
You could say, it's their own form of crusades.

Where I live, they want to build a minarette. Oookay. But that's not really the big deal here....they threatened us that if we don't approve of this then we shouldn't be surprised when something bad happens to us.

Well, you can imagine what the hidden message was.
Posted 3/24/09

o0James0o wrote:


Cyberpirate wrote:


i do think this shall answer why such stuff happened.

the government of yours, since you did said there were 3 parties, would most likely be republic or democracy kind. and being that kind, the party surely would want more people to vote for them. hence, tons of compromises.

with the muslim immigrants going into your country, it is safe to say it would change the political status of parties... therefore, it is also safe to say that those parties would want the muslim to vote for them. hence, they would give the muslims what they wanted in return for their vote so they can rule. easy to understand? give and take.

there is unlikely any way to stop such crisis from happening due to the fact that it is a "democracy" or "republic". with the majority voting, persons that knows what should be done cannot change anything much.


It doesn't quite work that way in Scandinavia. A government usually consist of 2-3-4 parties gaining the majority of the votes, it's not one way or the other.

Furthermore, we have a long history and culture, contrary to USA. And the kind of muslim immigrants we recieve, does not believe in the same things as muslim in USA (generally speaking of course). The muslims in denmark have often grown up far out on the country where they came from, where the believes are very, very oldfashioned. As in, women don't leave the house, they don't talk to men, they don't complain or go against the husband or the sons, they DO NOT have sex, else they may be killed, and so on... That's why it is a very serious issue...
Posted 3/24/09
well at least its not as bad here in the US =/
Posted 3/24/09 , edited 3/24/09

Cyberpirate wrote:


leviathan343 wrote:

Church and state are supposedly separate. If they want to cry about it, tough shit. Learn to live in a non-theocracy.


Yes, we are working on a secular country, but we can't do that when the governments are hypocrites.

This is what happens when political parties go on a campaign to win over an minority group that has no concept of freedom in a secular country. For you see in a Muslim community, their religion is the state. So when the Muslim faith became too rigid over time, can you guess how people within that community reflect and react to their surroundings? That's right, backward!

Okazu606 wrote:
Furthermore, we have a long history and culture, contrary to USA. And the kind of muslim immigrants we recieve, does not believe in the same things as muslim in USA (generally speaking of course). The muslims in denmark have often grown up far out on the country where they came from, where the believes are very, very oldfashioned. As in, women don't leave the house, they don't talk to men, they don't complain or go against the husband or the sons, they DO NOT have sex, else they may be killed, and so on... That's why it is a very serious issue...
And you know what they do to a woman who broke those rigid yet old-fashioned taboos? The members of the Islam community all ganged up and stoned her to death.
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