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Justice= revenge?
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29 / M / Aboard the Hyperion
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Posted 4/3/09
The Justice System from a different perspective is a means to commit actions that would otherwise be deemed illegitimate such as murder by capital punishment. I'm not saying that the system is flawed or not but that this is a function that is often overlooked. Taking one's life is still murder regardless of its form but the system exists to absolves this action under special circumstances dictated by the system.

Justice also revolves around public discourse. The system exists because the general public has accepted it as a whole and it is them that provided the power which the system holds. It can vary from place to place, society to society, culture to culture, etc. Just as Kill099 has pointed out, justice is very ambiguous.
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Posted 4/3/09

Cuddlebuns wrote:


darkmagiciangirl911 wrote:
Who decides what truth, reason, and fairness is? Why should we, as a society, have the right to punish or retaliate against someone because we don't agree with their actions?


Because their actions infringe upon the rights of other people. If someone can't respect people and violates someone else's rights, then they don't deserve any for themselves. And for more severe crimes, if we don't stop them then they'll just keep doing it to more people until everyone is dead/raped/has all their stuff stolen.


darkmagiciangirl911 wrote:

Norms in themselves are man-made, but detrimental to mankind's survival. If everything is the same, nothing can ever change. Man-made things are destroying mankind by destroying our environment (technological advancements) and by destroying our ability to think differently.Most of the world's greatest minds did not fit the norm.

Depending on norms will not more our species forward, we will slip back to the prehistoric style socio-economic point of view faster than we will advance to a new form of being.

If we decide what others can and cannot do we are impeding our own development as a species as well as our own individual development. Persecuting those seen as out of the norm shows a deep insecure with our society. Locking up of killing someone wouldn't fix the problems that are presented in our society.


You do realize that you're basically saying "preventing people from raping, killing, and stealing has impeded our development as a society?"
You do realize that if we let people do those things without restrictions or consequences, the whole world would be full of serial killers who would most likely all kill each other, and end our species? I don't think that's really "moving our species forward."


We do adhere to the norms, but those change over time as society develops. In America it used to be the norm for white people treat non-white people like shit, now that times have changed the norms have changed with them, so now we get the same rights as white people.


Where exactly did these "rights" come from? Speaking about our whole species, we are just animals no different from chimpanzees and bonobos. WE made ourselves believe we are entitled to things when really we are no more "entitled" than anyone else. Rights don't really exist, they are just a man-made philosophy to justify ourselves. Nothing is a right and we aren't entitled to anything. We are just animals, it's natural that we would kill, rape, and stealing.

the whole world would be full of serial killers who would most likely all kill each other, and end our species? I don't think that's really "moving our species forward."

That is an even bigger assumption that you're making there. Serial killers are a pretty rare occurrence that usually stems from a psychological ailment caused by the environment and genetics the person stems from. It's very unlikely that, of all things, would end our species.
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Posted 4/3/09

darkmagiciangirl911 wrote:

Where exactly did these "rights" come from? Speaking about our whole species, we are just animals no different from chimpanzees and bonobos. WE made ourselves believe we are entitled to things when really we are no more "entitled" than anyone else. Rights don't really exist, they are just a man-made philosophy to justify ourselves. Nothing is a right and we aren't entitled to anything. We are just animals, it's natural that we would kill, rape, and stealing.


Humans are the dominant species on this planet, we're the only ones with the power to manipulate and screw up this planet as much as we have, and with that power we have given ourselves certain unalienable rights, such as the right to live and the right to own property.

Other animals don't rape, kill, and steal from each other for no good reason in the same way that humans do. As far as I know, whenever there is a threat (a predator) to a group of herding/colonizing/socializing/etc type animals, they will all work together to try to get rid of that threat in order to protect their lives. They won't simply stand by and let it kill them all because they have no right to stop it. They have the instinct and the right to protect themselves and other members of their herd/colony/whatever to ensure that they live, the same way we have a justice system in order to protect ourselves and members of our society from predatory threats like murderers, rapists, and thieves.




That is an even bigger assumption that you're making there. Serial killers are a pretty rare occurrence that usually stems from a psychological ailment caused by the environment and genetics the person stems from. It's very unlikely that, of all things, would end our species.

It only takes a handful of guys to launch all of the the massive amount of bombs, missiles, etc that could easily wipe us all out. And chances are that if there were no consequences for killing people, there would be a lot more people doing it than just that small group of mentally disturbed people.
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Posted 4/3/09

Cuddlebuns wrote:


darkmagiciangirl911 wrote:

Where exactly did these "rights" come from? Speaking about our whole species, we are just animals no different from chimpanzees and bonobos. WE made ourselves believe we are entitled to things when really we are no more "entitled" than anyone else. Rights don't really exist, they are just a man-made philosophy to justify ourselves. Nothing is a right and we aren't entitled to anything. We are just animals, it's natural that we would kill, rape, and stealing.


Humans are the dominant species on this planet, we're the only ones with the power to manipulate and screw up this planet as much as we have, and with that power we have given ourselves certain unalienable rights, such as the right to live and the right to own property.

Other animals don't rape, kill, and steal from each other for no good reason in the same way that humans do. As far as I know, whenever there is a threat (a predator) to a group of herding/colonizing/socializing/etc type animals, they will all work together to try to get rid of that threat in order to protect their lives. They won't simply stand by and let it kill them all because they have no right to stop it. They have the instinct and the right to protect themselves and other members of their herd/colony/whatever to ensure that they live, the same way we have a justice system in order to protect ourselves and members of our society from predatory threats like murderers, rapists, and thieves.




That is an even bigger assumption that you're making there. Serial killers are a pretty rare occurrence that usually stems from a psychological ailment caused by the environment and genetics the person stems from. It's very unlikely that, of all things, would end our species.


It only takes a handful of guys to launch all of the the massive amount of bombs, missiles, etc that could easily wipe us all out. And chances are that if there were no consequences for killing people, there would be a lot more people doing it than just that small group of mentally disturbed people.


Yea, if 1 person in russia decided to be an ass, he could nuke us into nothing, our missle defence system could stop about 15 incoming missles but not 30 or 50 incoming missles, and all it'd take is 1 person.
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Posted 4/3/09

darkmagiciangirl911 wrote:




Where exactly did these "rights" come from?


It came from cases where people were mistreated, used and killed. I think you are capable of thinking so try putting yourself in a state where there are no rights and no protection. Have you forgotten cases where humans were abused because rights were removed from them? Cases of dictatorship forcing people to do what the government wants.


Speaking about our whole species, we are just animals no different from chimpanzees and bonobos. WE made ourselves believe we are entitled to things when really we are no more "entitled" than anyone else. Rights don't really exist, they are just a man-made philosophy to justify ourselves. Nothing is a right and we aren't entitled to anything. We are just animals, it's natural that we would kill, rape, and stealing.


I believe I'm a higher form of specie. I'm not an animal since I'm capable of thinking; logic and reasoning. So you believe we aren't entitled to anything so we shouldn't claim anything? How would we eat? Or drink? We would die. It's natural that animals kill, rape and steal, but we aren't animals, didn't you say before that we are evolved species. Murder, rape and theft causes suffering. You would rather suffer than live peacefully? You would rather think that we should only be "animals" living off the jungle when we are gifted with higher form of intelligence. Animals even have the slightest sense of responsibility, so why not you a human given power take responsibility(Spiderman Reference FTW!)



That is an even bigger assumption that you're making there. Serial killers are a pretty rare occurrence that usually stems from a psychological ailment caused by the environment and genetics the person stems from. It's very unlikely that, of all things, would end our species


You should think this through. Have you forgotten that big things come from small beginnings? Yes, there are rare occurrence of serial killers but murder isn't an unusual case. Without anyone trying to control these wouldn't it turn to being massive amounts of death?

Justice is guided by rights. It was given on your description.
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Posted 4/4/09

macphapie wrote:
I believe I'm a higher form of specie. I'm not an animal since I'm capable of thinking; logic and reasoning.


From a biological perspective, we are animals, we just have unique evolutionary traits like advanced tool-usage, relatively extreme greed and selfishness compared to most other animals, and advanced reasoning and logic skills. In an evolutionary sense, all of our "great" achievements throughout history are just adaptations to help us survive in this world, no different than birds developing wings, or prey-animals developing camouflage mechanisms.

Of course, being human also gives us the ability to ignore facts like these and ignorantly place ourselves on a pedestal, which you are free to do.
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Posted 4/4/09 , edited 4/4/09

Cuddlebuns wrote:


macphapie wrote:
I believe I'm a higher form of specie. I'm not an animal since I'm capable of thinking; logic and reasoning.


From a biological perspective, we are animals, we just have unique evolutionary traits like advanced tool-usage, relatively extreme greed and selfishness compared to most other animals, and advanced reasoning and logic skills. In an evolutionary sense, all of our "great" achievements throughout history are just adaptations to help us survive in this world, no different than birds developing wings, or prey-animals developing camouflage mechanisms.

Of course, being human also gives us the ability to ignore facts like these and ignorantly place ourselves on a pedestal, which you are free to do.


I think from a "biological perspective" everything on earth that has life came from one organism. From animals to insects to viruses to plants yet, we don't call each one the same. We adopted these traits and enhanced ourselves. I don't think calling us "animals" up to now would be proper. I admit we are related to animals but not one of the specie.

TL;DR: Not saying your point of view is wrong. Mine is just Humans > Animals
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Posted 4/5/09 , edited 4/5/09
Justice = to do what is right and to know what is wrong.

Revenge = to exact punishment or expiation for a wrong on behalf of

Well, most people use "Justice" as a reason and the word "Revenge" for gaining satisfaction.

Justice is something to do the right thing. Revenge is something that "bad" can occur.
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31 / M / East Coastin'
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Posted 4/5/09
justice is subjective. there's personal justice and the "justice" that comes from breaking society's rules.

vengeance taps into a person's intimate sense of justice and often disregards the larger, overarching society's rules in lieu of their own beliefs and convictions.

in the end, pursuing "justice" to the absolute end is just as bad as committing evil. justice for the sake of ignoring other people's well being is just as bad as the act in which the justice was enacted to fight against.

for example, PETA's stance on animal cruelty while having 95 percent of its adopted animals killed and euthanized. [source: http://www.consumerfreedom.com/pressRelease_detail.cfm/release/258]

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Posted 5/30/09
Justice can be seen as a positive issues
Revenge can be seen as both positive and negative.
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101 / F
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Posted 5/30/09
Revenge seems to be more brutal than Justice..
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24 / F / Canada
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Posted 6/3/09

emld571995 wrote:

Revenge seems to be more brutal than Justice..


It's the same. Neither is more or less brutal than the other. Justice is simply less subtle than revenge.
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29 / somewhere hiding
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Posted 6/5/09
Justice is an alibi in doing revenge, since it is socially acceptable and rational to the social norms.
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20 / F / Indonesia Raya
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Posted 6/5/09

Kira from Death Note was right.

Keep justice by freaked people. Because humans are ignorance, so they wouldn't obedient for such rulez
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