Remove this ad
Post Reply Does this show affect you as a Ground breaking Philosophy?
Member
8500 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
22 / M / California
Offline
Posted 4/2/09 , edited 4/2/09
WARNING LOTS OF WORDS... Still if anybody actually gave a crap, lots of words would not really be a problem. It's a lot of writing about the philosophy behind the show so it's obviously going to be a lot of words.
Originally this was supposed to be a poll... but for some reason they wont let me post polls on this Forum... So other than that just post whether you guys agree, disagree, or just don't care.


I have been really curious about this ever since I had first watched this show and then shortly after wards read the manga.
I was inspired by how genius and well put together this entire story was! It's so well put together that it almost seems unbreakable. Mind you I do believe there are a few things that are silly about this story but it seems just genius to me.

It sort of touched me in a philosophical sense. Just the idea of how well it's put together. How everything does in fact make sense to a very specific degree.
The heavy use of the Anthropic principal, the logical tweaking of time, the heavy use of common logic versus the strong emotions of people.

It just seems amazing to me.

The playing with time is what amazed me the most. The entire world started three years ago. Thus there is a time wall. Which is what plays with the story's time traveler character, she was supposed to go farther into the past, but because the world was created only three years ago she suddenly hits that time wall and has no strong logical reason to why she can't go back any further than three years ago. All she knows is that Haruhi is somehow involved with this stop in time.
Due to that fat stop in the flow of time it creates a bunch of more fun things to play around with in this story which the writer played with very logically in a fun format.

This now jumps into the Anthropic Principle which is based on the idea that things work the way they work for the convenience of Mankind.
If time never existed past three years ago, then how is it possible that we have anything as we have it now? This is where the Anthropic principle is stretched, Everything was set up based on a false memory of knowing things that never actually happened. Why is that? Because it is convenient for us which runs back to the Anthropic principle.
If we were to look at something such as a blender, we could ask how is this helpful and simply pick up a history book and go through hundreds of years about it's efficiency. Look into the history of using glass containers, look at the improvements of the common metal blade that eventually leads up to it's use as a blender blade, or even look up the inventor of using common electricity as a way of making people lives easier. A simple blender can be rooted back to decades of history.
Yet with the Melancholy of Haruhi, We have the time block combined with a very deep Anthropic principle that goes to the idea that all of that history had never actually existed and is only there to justify the existence of everything as it is.
With the items that we have that make our lives easier we look at them and say to ourselves that we deserve them due to the advancement in technology and the use of good old brain power that helped create them. Therefore we deserve them because we are smart and deserve our lives to be easy.

With the ability to have a rational reason towards the existence of an object we feel we are able to use it because it makes sense.
I may sound like I'm heading away from Haruhi, but this is all very important to how the story adds up and makes sense.
Haruhi being the supposed God that she is, had created the world of the story in her image as she saw fit for her enjoyment. This included all that was necessary for human beings to survive, whether it based on the exact gravity of the earth, or the distance from the sun, or to how a blender exactly works.
With the knowledge of history implanted to rationally explain what led up to the time that is now. The history is all a lie, but it helps make everything for people easier to understand through memory.

Most of this philosophy is used throughout the show constantly that helps the show move in a constant flow of being complicated but also have a sense of simplistic logic.
Obviously there is a lot more rooted to this than just simply that, but it is the most common toy that is used to make the show a real mind twister.

There is also the fun of looking at the show with the question in mind of what is controlled and what is chaotic?
The point of this question is based on the god that is Haruhi in the story, everything has a purpose whether directly affecting the world that she has created or herself as a person if not as a God.
The Control versus Chaotic is asking about what is real. As we understand every human being is under their own control as a separate entity, but due to the premise of the story, the people in the story (not including the main characters) are all in a sense planned out lives. In other words situations set up for the pleasure of the God. They seem to go on as separate entities but in actuality are merely individual beings to show that people rule the earth for the sake of being the dominating species. This is also well explained by looking back towards the main set of characters, a time traveler, an esper, and an alien. The explanation behind their existence is explained as being nothing other than the God so dearly wanted them to exist... thus there they are.
Which is what gives them the Control perspective within the control versus chaotic.
Control in this case represents the characters as being controlled by something greater (In this story it would be the God Haruhi), as in having a fate rather than being able to do things on their own as an individual entity.
For the Chaotic side is so far been established as only Haruhi being the only real separate entity. Controlling her own fate and choosing to make the world bend to her own will as she so dearly pleases.

Still then there is our other Human main character who we have no solid idea about. There have been hints in the story that he is part of the Control group, such as them saying that he had the URGE to visit the club room, or that he had the strange URGE of wanting to talk to Haruhi at all. This is sort of giving off the idea that Haruhi as a god is controlling his fate to be connected with her and be an important person in her life.
Still yet again there also seems to be a Chaotic factor to him. As in... Is he a separate Entity? Possibly an important entity to Haruhi and could he possibly be unconscious to this just the same way as Haruhi being unconscious to the idea that she is a God? There's still a lot of Mystery behind his character that seems to balance between the Control versus Chaotic.

There is a lot of very well thought out plotting in this story and as far as I'm convinced it can only go up from where it has already started. Tell me what you guys think about all of this, and I do thank everybody who has taken the time to read all that I have written here.
I could write lots more about the various intriguing perspectives of this show, but some I can't think of right now, so if you have anything to ask about or discuss bring them up and I will be glad to discuss about them and I'm sure others wouldn't mind talking about it either.
Member
1320 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
22 / M / Philippines
Offline
Posted 4/17/09

Rezzy64 wrote:

WARNING LOTS OF WORDS... Still if anybody actually gave a crap, lots of words would not really be a problem. It's a lot of writing about the philosophy behind the show so it's obviously going to be a lot of words.
Originally this was supposed to be a poll... but for some reason they wont let me post polls on this Forum... So other than that just post whether you guys agree, disagree, or just don't care.


I have been really curious about this ever since I had first watched this show and then shortly after wards read the manga.
I was inspired by how genius and well put together this entire story was! It's so well put together that it almost seems unbreakable. Mind you I do believe there are a few things that are silly about this story but it seems just genius to me.

It sort of touched me in a philosophical sense. Just the idea of how well it's put together. How everything does in fact make sense to a very specific degree.
The heavy use of the Anthropic principal, the logical tweaking of time, the heavy use of common logic versus the strong emotions of people.

It just seems amazing to me.

The playing with time is what amazed me the most. The entire world started three years ago. Thus there is a time wall. Which is what plays with the story's time traveler character, she was supposed to go farther into the past, but because the world was created only three years ago she suddenly hits that time wall and has no strong logical reason to why she can't go back any further than three years ago. All she knows is that Haruhi is somehow involved with this stop in time.
Due to that fat stop in the flow of time it creates a bunch of more fun things to play around with in this story which the writer played with very logically in a fun format.

This now jumps into the Anthropic Principle which is based on the idea that things work the way they work for the convenience of Mankind.
If time never existed past three years ago, then how is it possible that we have anything as we have it now? This is where the Anthropic principle is stretched, Everything was set up based on a false memory of knowing things that never actually happened. Why is that? Because it is convenient for us which runs back to the Anthropic principle.
If we were to look at something such as a blender, we could ask how is this helpful and simply pick up a history book and go through hundreds of years about it's efficiency. Look into the history of using glass containers, look at the improvements of the common metal blade that eventually leads up to it's use as a blender blade, or even look up the inventor of using common electricity as a way of making people lives easier. A simple blender can be rooted back to decades of history.
Yet with the Melancholy of Haruhi, We have the time block combined with a very deep Anthropic principle that goes to the idea that all of that history had never actually existed and is only there to justify the existence of everything as it is.
With the items that we have that make our lives easier we look at them and say to ourselves that we deserve them due to the advancement in technology and the use of good old brain power that helped create them. Therefore we deserve them because we are smart and deserve our lives to be easy.

With the ability to have a rational reason towards the existence of an object we feel we are able to use it because it makes sense.
I may sound like I'm heading away from Haruhi, but this is all very important to how the story adds up and makes sense.
Haruhi being the supposed God that she is, had created the world of the story in her image as she saw fit for her enjoyment. This included all that was necessary for human beings to survive, whether it based on the exact gravity of the earth, or the distance from the sun, or to how a blender exactly works.
With the knowledge of history implanted to rationally explain what led up to the time that is now. The history is all a lie, but it helps make everything for people easier to understand through memory.

Most of this philosophy is used throughout the show constantly that helps the show move in a constant flow of being complicated but also have a sense of simplistic logic.
Obviously there is a lot more rooted to this than just simply that, but it is the most common toy that is used to make the show a real mind twister.

There is also the fun of looking at the show with the question in mind of what is controlled and what is chaotic?
The point of this question is based on the god that is Haruhi in the story, everything has a purpose whether directly affecting the world that she has created or herself as a person if not as a God.
The Control versus Chaotic is asking about what is real. As we understand every human being is under their own control as a separate entity, but due to the premise of the story, the people in the story (not including the main characters) are all in a sense planned out lives. In other words situations set up for the pleasure of the God. They seem to go on as separate entities but in actuality are merely individual beings to show that people rule the earth for the sake of being the dominating species. This is also well explained by looking back towards the main set of characters, a time traveler, an esper, and an alien. The explanation behind their existence is explained as being nothing other than the God so dearly wanted them to exist... thus there they are.
Which is what gives them the Control perspective within the control versus chaotic.
Control in this case represents the characters as being controlled by something greater (In this story it would be the God Haruhi), as in having a fate rather than being able to do things on their own as an individual entity.
For the Chaotic side is so far been established as only Haruhi being the only real separate entity. Controlling her own fate and choosing to make the world bend to her own will as she so dearly pleases.

Still then there is our other Human main character who we have no solid idea about. There have been hints in the story that he is part of the Control group, such as them saying that he had the URGE to visit the club room, or that he had the strange URGE of wanting to talk to Haruhi at all. This is sort of giving off the idea that Haruhi as a god is controlling his fate to be connected with her and be an important person in her life.
Still yet again there also seems to be a Chaotic factor to him. As in... Is he a separate Entity? Possibly an important entity to Haruhi and could he possibly be unconscious to this just the same way as Haruhi being unconscious to the idea that she is a God? There's still a lot of Mystery behind his character that seems to balance between the Control versus Chaotic.

There is a lot of very well thought out plotting in this story and as far as I'm convinced it can only go up from where it has already started. Tell me what you guys think about all of this, and I do thank everybody who has taken the time to read all that I have written here.
I could write lots more about the various intriguing perspectives of this show, but some I can't think of right now, so if you have anything to ask about or discuss bring them up and I will be glad to discuss about them and I'm sure others wouldn't mind talking about it either.


That is what Koizumi told kyon right
Anyway, i think that because the power of God is infinite and Haruhi wished that she could change her world then God gave her infinite powers making her God like but still not God. Infinite beings can create other infinite and finite beings with an own wills and paths. That's what i think
After all, infinite minus infinite is still infinite not zero

Member
8500 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
22 / M / California
Offline
Posted 4/17/09

vampire09_08 wrote:

That is what Koizumi told kyon right
Anyway, i think that because the power of God is infinite and Haruhi wished that she could change her world then God gave her infinite powers making her God like but still not God. Infinite beings can create other infinite and finite beings with an own wills and paths. That's what i think
After all, infinite minus infinite is still infinite not zero



Huh, that's an interesting idea... So are you saying you think she was specially chosen in the story by god or something...?

I was personally just bringing up the philosophy behind the idea of the story. Whether or not she's the actual god or not... the philosophy still stands on it's own. I still think the idea of the story is built towards the idea that she is in fact (a) God (Unless the story says otherwise somewhere).
Still the idea itself is quite mind blowing... The world could have been created three years ago... and you wouldn't even know it.
1859 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
21 / M / § 団 Literature Cl...
Offline
Posted 4/18/09

Rezzy64 wrote:


vampire09_08 wrote:

That is what Koizumi told kyon right
Anyway, i think that because the power of God is infinite and Haruhi wished that she could change her world then God gave her infinite powers making her God like but still not God. Infinite beings can create other infinite and finite beings with an own wills and paths. That's what i think
After all, infinite minus infinite is still infinite not zero



Huh, that's an interesting idea... So are you saying you think she was specially chosen in the story by god or something...?

I was personally just bringing up the philosophy behind the idea of the story. Whether or not she's the actual god or not... the philosophy still stands on it's own. I still think the idea of the story is built towards the idea that she is in fact (a) God (Unless the story says otherwise somewhere).
Still the idea itself is quite mind blowing... The world could have been created three years ago... and you wouldn't even know it.


Actually, fans have a theory that Kyon is really the true God here and just being the unreliable narrator. There's a possibility that Kyon actually chose Haruhi to be the God of the world.

Here's the discussion if you want to check it out: http://www.baka-tsuki.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=418

Have you read the light novels of Haruhi? The link might contain spoilers so be careful.
Member
8500 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
22 / M / California
Offline
Posted 4/18/09

sledger198 wrote:


Rezzy64 wrote:


vampire09_08 wrote:

That is what Koizumi told kyon right
Anyway, i think that because the power of God is infinite and Haruhi wished that she could change her world then God gave her infinite powers making her God like but still not God. Infinite beings can create other infinite and finite beings with an own wills and paths. That's what i think
After all, infinite minus infinite is still infinite not zero



Huh, that's an interesting idea... So are you saying you think she was specially chosen in the story by god or something...?

I was personally just bringing up the philosophy behind the idea of the story. Whether or not she's the actual god or not... the philosophy still stands on it's own. I still think the idea of the story is built towards the idea that she is in fact (a) God (Unless the story says otherwise somewhere).
Still the idea itself is quite mind blowing... The world could have been created three years ago... and you wouldn't even know it.


Actually, fans have a theory that Kyon is really the true God here and just being the unreliable narrator. There's a possibility that Kyon actually chose Haruhi to be the God of the world.

Here's the discussion if you want to check it out: http://www.baka-tsuki.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=418

Have you read the light novels of Haruhi? The link might contain spoilers so be careful.


Well I've only read what's on one manga and I think they only have like 14 chapters out or something like that.
Member
8500 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
22 / M / California
Offline
Posted 4/26/09

sledger198 wrote:


Rezzy64 wrote:


vampire09_08 wrote:

That is what Koizumi told kyon right
Anyway, i think that because the power of God is infinite and Haruhi wished that she could change her world then God gave her infinite powers making her God like but still not God. Infinite beings can create other infinite and finite beings with an own wills and paths. That's what i think
After all, infinite minus infinite is still infinite not zero



Huh, that's an interesting idea... So are you saying you think she was specially chosen in the story by god or something...?

I was personally just bringing up the philosophy behind the idea of the story. Whether or not she's the actual god or not... the philosophy still stands on it's own. I still think the idea of the story is built towards the idea that she is in fact (a) God (Unless the story says otherwise somewhere).
Still the idea itself is quite mind blowing... The world could have been created three years ago... and you wouldn't even know it.


Actually, fans have a theory that Kyon is really the true God here and just being the unreliable narrator. There's a possibility that Kyon actually chose Haruhi to be the God of the world.

Here's the discussion if you want to check it out: http://www.baka-tsuki.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=418

Have you read the light novels of Haruhi? The link might contain spoilers so be careful.


I read over the idea of how Kyon could be the god after all, but there's too many sets of conveniences that I don't really agree with.
See they mentioned some interesting ideas about how he could be the god based on the idea that he wants to be the side kick of the hero and therefore that's what he had become. Still if you think about it that goes with my theory about Chaotic versus Controlled. If Kyon was an aspect of the control factor of Haruhi as the god, he would have had that set of mind in the beginning anyways based on the idea that Haruhi wishes it so.

Think of it like this. They said exactly what I was talking about before. He at first said he wants to be the hero of the story. That's the first thing that he thinks, but then SUDDENLY he changes his mind and decides that he would rather be the sidekick of the hero. Well what do you know that's what he then becomes in the story. This goes along with the control theory due to normally he would have chosen to be the hero of the story but due to Haruhi's will he wants to be the sidekick instead. This goes with the same ideas that follow along with him having the sudden urge to want to see Haruhi, or find her or talk to her. He's part of the control aspect which as far as I can see rules him out as the God.

Also in my opinion the whole "Kyon wants Harem!" thing seems to be a silly convenience excuse to explain his overall god like control over everything as well as the girls. There's no logical psychology to back that up besides the obvious puberty aspect, and it would be a very silly and way too convenient way of explaining the God aspect of the story from Kyon's perspective.
So I am currently against the Kyon is God theory, until a much more revealing part of the story says different.
Member
53229 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
22
Offline
Posted 4/15/10
Short answer in reply to the thread topic:

Yeah it did.
34008 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
Offline
Posted 6/20/10
Are you guys serious?

The "philosophy" and "principles" used in this show are nothing more than hand-waving tricks designed to create the proper setup for an otaku-ish schoolyard comedy. It's just a series of excuses for the creator to toss in a bunch of (familiar, stereotypical) cross-genre characters together and have them interact in ways intended to be amusing. It's almost tongue-in-cheek fourth-wall breaking.

You guys remind me of the people that debate the "deep symbolism" found in Evangelion. No, just no.
948 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
M
Offline
Posted 7/16/10
There is practically a religion around this show.

I think, we know less than a millionth of a percent about anything. So in the end, I'd like to meet some aliens, time travellers, and esp'ers. It'd be interesting, instead of boring.

I like Kyon's outlook, and Yuki's responses: "is that a good book?" "Somewhat" "Ah, I see."...
Posted 9/20/10
if you think TMoHS is "Ground Breaking philosiphy, watch The Matrix.
it made me think alot more than Haruhi. and i think it was put together greatly, and was fun to watch (with those action scenes)
6272 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
Offline
Posted 1/25/12 , edited 27 days ago
.
You must be logged in to post.