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digs 
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Posted 4/9/09

Allhailodin wrote:


digs wrote:


Allhailodin wrote:


jewishplayer wrote:


Allhailodin wrote:


jewishplayer wrote:

Well, actually, as of now, the only planet with life is Earth, based on our current knowledge. Other planets that are capable of supporting life with life are not found yet. Water is theoretically the main requirement of life (as seen on Earth), "terrestrial" goes hand in hand with "aquatic."

The whole asteroid belt is terrestrial too if we just go by the land masses that is distinguishable from water, though, they only have frozen water, maybe no water but they probably do.


The kupier belt has frozen water, blocks of it, and there are some moons that have frozen water too, but water isn't nessassarily a requirment for life, it is for us, but that doesn't mean it is for all life out there, there are plenty of other chemicals that an organism could use to live.


All of those organisms alive on Earth actually has access to water. They do have different source of energy but the one thing they have in common is water. A source of water. Liquid water actually. Which is of course the reason why we pretty much look for water as it is the basis of life based on our current science.


As far as I know not all lifeforms need water, some bacteria and other various single celled life doesn't nessassarily need water or oxygen, they can survive on other things such as arsenic for example. There are some bacteria that "breathe" arsenic and use it to break down nutrients and release energy much the same way humans use oxygen. So on other planets it's perfectly possible that a multi-celled evolved lifeform uses arsenic as a source of life the same as we use water for life, hell it could even breathe hydrogen. Life on earth isn't a standard for all universal life.


I guess it would depend on how the organism participated in cellular respiration. Plants use CO2 and most animals use Oxygen. Some bacteria are anaerobic and don't use oxygen. Theoretically if the organism had a completely different form of cellular respiration then it could breath whatever worked within that form, of course they would also have to store energy completely differently and have organelles that used the energy differently.


Well like i said some bacteria use arsenic for food and air and to break down nutrients and all that good stuff, so its perfectly plausable that another organism on another planet could do the same, or even use something different like nitrogen or helium, our scientists are fucking idiots if they think all life needs "Earth like" conditions, thats retarded, while yes thats how it happened for us, it doesn't mean it's a universal standard. there could be life on planets that are - 200 degrees and survive by drinking liquid nitrogen and we'd never find it because we'd never look, its stupid to think that all life needs earth like conditions.


I agree. However the life would be 99.9% different from what we have on earth due to the biological differences needed to survive on certain planets. I think they may be secretly just trying to find another earth like planet and not a planet that might house single celled organisms. Just because scientists don't understand how life could function in drastically different environments doesn't mean it can't (but it may make it less plausible).

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Posted 4/9/09

digs wrote:


Allhailodin wrote:


digs wrote:


Allhailodin wrote:


jewishplayer wrote:


Allhailodin wrote:


jewishplayer wrote:

Well, actually, as of now, the only planet with life is Earth, based on our current knowledge. Other planets that are capable of supporting life with life are not found yet. Water is theoretically the main requirement of life (as seen on Earth), "terrestrial" goes hand in hand with "aquatic."

The whole asteroid belt is terrestrial too if we just go by the land masses that is distinguishable from water, though, they only have frozen water, maybe no water but they probably do.


The kupier belt has frozen water, blocks of it, and there are some moons that have frozen water too, but water isn't nessassarily a requirment for life, it is for us, but that doesn't mean it is for all life out there, there are plenty of other chemicals that an organism could use to live.


All of those organisms alive on Earth actually has access to water. They do have different source of energy but the one thing they have in common is water. A source of water. Liquid water actually. Which is of course the reason why we pretty much look for water as it is the basis of life based on our current science.


As far as I know not all lifeforms need water, some bacteria and other various single celled life doesn't nessassarily need water or oxygen, they can survive on other things such as arsenic for example. There are some bacteria that "breathe" arsenic and use it to break down nutrients and release energy much the same way humans use oxygen. So on other planets it's perfectly possible that a multi-celled evolved lifeform uses arsenic as a source of life the same as we use water for life, hell it could even breathe hydrogen. Life on earth isn't a standard for all universal life.


I guess it would depend on how the organism participated in cellular respiration. Plants use CO2 and most animals use Oxygen. Some bacteria are anaerobic and don't use oxygen. Theoretically if the organism had a completely different form of cellular respiration then it could breath whatever worked within that form, of course they would also have to store energy completely differently and have organelles that used the energy differently.


Well like i said some bacteria use arsenic for food and air and to break down nutrients and all that good stuff, so its perfectly plausable that another organism on another planet could do the same, or even use something different like nitrogen or helium, our scientists are fucking idiots if they think all life needs "Earth like" conditions, thats retarded, while yes thats how it happened for us, it doesn't mean it's a universal standard. there could be life on planets that are - 200 degrees and survive by drinking liquid nitrogen and we'd never find it because we'd never look, its stupid to think that all life needs earth like conditions.


I agree. However the life would be 99.9% different from what we have on earth due to the biological differences needed to survive on certain planets. I think they may be secretly just trying to find another earth like planet and not a planet that might house single celled organisms. Just because scientists don't understand how life could function in drastically different environments doesn't mean it can't (but it may make it less plausible).



I'm willing to bet 100$ that there is life besides us in our solar system, and my first bet would be saturns moon titan, i'm willing to bet 100$ that there is life on that moon, even tho its -289 degrees and full of gasses that would kill us, i'll bet money that there is life on that moon, not saying its evolved, for it could be nothing more that a single celled organism, or it might use something that we've never seen before and thus might not classify it as "life" , but i'm willing to bet something alive is there, fuck if we'd stop spending trillions of dollars of stupid wars, and spend it on exploring our universe instead, we'd be a lot better off. send a few probes over there and looks around, maybe test some dirt or something, but no humanity can't restrain itself from having some retarded conflict over something stupid like religious differences.

But yeah, it could be a living organism and we'd never classify it as life, simply because we've never seen it before. I agree with you on that.
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Posted 4/9/09
'I know I am going to spell this moons name wrong. Uropea... Is a Ice Moon with a worm Ocean underneath, Many Scientest think this moon may have a good chance of having a ocean teaming with life.'

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Posted 4/9/09

Darkphoenix3450 wrote:

'I know I am going to spell this moons name wrong. Uropea... Is a Ice Moon with a worm Ocean underneath, Many Scientest think this moon may have a good chance of having a ocean teaming with life.'



It's Europa btw, and yeah thats the second place i'd look.


Jupiter's icy moon Europa is slightly smaller than the Earth's moon. Like the Earth, Europa is thought to have an iron core, a rocky mantle, and a surface ocean of salty water. Unlike on Earth, however, this ocean is deep enough to cover the whole surface of Europa, and being far from the Sun, the ocean surface is globally frozen over.

Europa orbits Jupiter every 3.5 days and is phase locked -- just like Earth's moon -- so that the same side of Europa faces Jupiter at all times. However, because Europa's orbit is eccentric (i.e. an oval not a circle) when it is close to Jupiter the tide is much higher than when it is far from Jupiter. Thus tidal forces raise and lower the sea beneath the ice, causing constant motion and likely causing the cracks we see in images of Europa's surface from visiting robotic probes.

This "tidal heating" causes Europa to be warmer than it would otherwise be at its average distance of about 780,000,000 kilometers (485,000,000 miles) from the sun, more than five times as far as the distance from the Earth to the Sun. The warmth of Europa's liquid ocean could prove critical to the survival of simple organisms within the ocean, if they exist.
Posted 4/9/09
i doubt people will still be here if that happens =T
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Posted 4/9/09 , edited 4/9/09


Actually, that is what I am saying, except that all life on Earth are linked with water. I am aware of the bacterias found in the depths of Earth as well as other organisms that can use other means of elements for energy.
Theoretically, 4% of the universe can support life (only Earth so far has life out of that 4%), while the rest is composed of dark energy, ~70% and dark matter, ~26% (CERN). The 4% contains a lot of elements including oxygen, carbon, nitrogen, iron, and other building blocks of life. It also has a possibility that outside that life can exist on the dark matters but we really do not know much about them, they only emit gravitational pull and that's about the data we have as of today (CERN).

The problem is that, we have not found any living organism that is not linked with water. Not one on Earth, at least. Maybe you are correct to say that it is not limited to Earth, but as far as our science goes, it is bounded by Earth. Which is probably also the reason why the satellite launched last March is only looking for planets that can sustain liquid water. NASA is probably wise enough to research before they go out to space, right? They know that all life forms here are linked to liquid water.

It will be interesting to find life on other planets without water though. Or even living on stars, which is doubtful.
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Posted 4/9/09

jewishplayer wrote:



Actually, that is what I am saying, except that all life on Earth are linked with water. I am aware of the bacterias found in the depths of Earth as well as other organisms that can use other means of elements for energy.
Theoretically, 4% of the universe can support life (only Earth so far has life out of that 4%), while the rest is composed of dark energy, ~70% and dark matter, ~26% (CERN). The 4% contains a lot of elements including oxygen, carbon, nitrogen, iron, and other building blocks of life. It also has a possibility that outside that life can exist on the dark matters but we really do not know much about them, they only emit gravitational pull and that's about the data we have as of today (CERN).

The problem is that, we have not found any living organism that is not linked with water. Not one on Earth, at least. Maybe you are correct to say that it is not limited to Earth, but as far as our science goes, it is bounded by Earth. Which is probably also the reason why the satellite launched last March is only looking for planets that can sustain liquid water. NASA is probably wise enough to research before they go out to space, right? They know that all life forms here are linked to liquid water.

It will be interesting to find life on other planets without water though. Or even living on stars, which is doubtful.


Yeah, but in that tiny 4% of the universe there are trillions of planets, it's retarded to think that earth is the only planet with life on it, there are millions of other galaxies with trillions of planets in them. there is no fucking way earth is the only planet or moon, because you have to consider moons too, with life on it. I'll bet that theres life besides up in our solar system, i'll bet money there is.

And life could exist in -300 degrees it would use something like liquid methane or ethane to survive, those are liquid at those low temp. and one moon in our solar system has all that, it even has the nessassry hydrocarbons for amino acids to form, i'll bet something lives there, be it simple cells or evolved life, who knows, but something probally lives there.
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Posted 4/9/09


True, that is the reason why NASA explores the universe, right? -300 degrees is Fahrenheit, I hope. I cannot remember the critical point of water but depending on the pressure, it most likely can form liquid water.

What I was saying is, all life in Earth are linked to water. Which probably is why we are looking for them. But yeah, anything is possible as long as carbon, nitrogen, hydrogen, etc can react and form a controlled reaction to sustain life.
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Posted 4/9/09
Sorry if I sound stupid.. Can sun turn into a black hole? Like the other stars? Since sun is a star too..

It's impossible that the Earth would be the only one we can live in. There are billions of galaxies in the hubble field. And also, there might be a chance that we can encounter aliens. We don't know for sure because scientists are still searching for planets. And I heard at 2013(?), a new hubble scope will be invented. And the advancements are that it can view a planets' compositions. Correct me if I'm wrong..
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Posted 4/9/09

jewishplayer wrote:



True, that is the reason why NASA explores the universe, right? -300 degrees is Fahrenheit, I hope. I cannot remember the critical point of water but depending on the pressure, it most likely can form liquid water.

What I was saying is, all life in Earth are linked to water. Which probably is why we are looking for them. But yeah, anything is possible as long as carbon, nitrogen, hydrogen, etc can react and form a controlled reaction to sustain life.


Well Europa is a moon of juipter and is believed to have a liquid water subsurface ocean, be a place to look, have to sterilize the probe tho. and titan is another good place to look. 2 good places to look, so look, stop wasting money on stupid programs that nobody cares about and do nothing.
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Posted 4/9/09


Yeah, but the probe with drill on it is still currently in the making. And the theoretical water is still theoretical, which is, I guess, the purpose of the drilling probe. Drill, baby, drill?
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Posted 4/9/09 , edited 4/9/09

jewishplayer wrote:

True, that is the reason why NASA explores the universe, right? -300 degrees is Fahrenheit, I hope. I cannot remember the critical point of water but depending on the pressure, it most likely can form liquid water.

What I was saying is, all life in Earth are linked to water. Which probably is why we are looking for them. But yeah, anything is possible as long as carbon, nitrogen, hydrogen, etc can react and form a controlled reaction to sustain life.




Europa


Jupiter's icy moon Europa is slightly smaller than the Earth's moon. Like the Earth, Europa is thought to have an iron core, a rocky mantle, and a surface ocean of salty water. Unlike on Earth, however, this ocean is deep enough to cover the whole surface of Europa, and being far from the Sun, the ocean surface is globally frozen over.

Europa orbits Jupiter every 3.5 days and is phase locked -- just like Earth's moon -- so that the same side of Europa faces Jupiter at all times. However, because Europa's orbit is eccentric (i.e. an oval not a circle) when it is close to Jupiter the tide is much higher than when it is far from Jupiter. Thus tidal forces raise and lower the sea beneath the ice, causing constant motion and likely causing the cracks we see in images of Europa's surface from visiting robotic probes.

This "tidal heating" causes Europa to be warmer than it would otherwise be at its average distance of about 780,000,000 kilometers (485,000,000 miles) from the sun, more than five times as far as the distance from the Earth to the Sun. The warmth of Europa's liquid ocean could prove critical to the survival of simple organisms within the ocean, if they exist.


Titan


Titan is the largest moon of Saturn and the second largest moon in the solar system, rivaled only by Jupiter's moon Ganymede. Before the Voyager encounters, astronomers suspected that Titan might have an atmosphere. Scientists also believed they might find liquid seas or pools of methane or ethane; water would be frozen due to Titan's low surface temperature. Expecting an unusual world, Voyager 1 was programmed to take numerous close up views of Titan as it flew past in November of 1980. Unfortunately, all that was revealed was an impenetrable layer of atmosphere and clouds. Only slight color and brightness variations were observed.

Although Titan is classified as a moon, it is larger than the planets Mercury and Pluto. It has a planet-like atmosphere which is more dense than those of Mercury, Earth, Mars and Pluto. The atmospheric pressure near the surface is about 1.6 bars, 60 percent greater than Earth's. Titan's air is predominantly made up of nitrogen with other hydrocarbon elements which give Titan its orange hue. These hydrocarbon rich elements are the building blocks for amino acids necessary for the formation of life. Scientists believe that Titan's environment may be similar to that of the Earth's before life began putting oxygen into the atmosphere.

Titan's surface temperature appears to be about -178°C (-289°F). Methane appears to be below its saturation pressure near Titan's surface; rivers and lakes of methane probably don't exist, in spite of the tantalizing analogy to water on Earth. On the other hand, scientists believe lakes of ethane exist that contain dissolved methane. Titan's methane, through continuing photochemistry, is converted to ethane, acetylene, ethylene, and (when combined with nitrogen) hydrogen cyanide. The last is an especially important molecule; it is a building block of amino acids.


2 perfect candidates for life. I fail to see why we're not looking for life there. But no we wanna go back to the moon.
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Posted 4/9/09


We actually are, currently making the machine to drill the upper ice. Well, NASA is at least, not us. But the probe with the drill might be harder to do than a sensor or something. I think the information pertaining to the moons is on NOVA if not on some Discovery show.
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Posted 4/9/09 , edited 4/9/09

jewishplayer wrote:



We actually are, currently making the machine to drill the upper ice. Well, NASA is at least, not us. But the probe with the drill might be harder to do than a sensor or something. I think the information pertaining to the moons is on NOVA if not on some Discovery show.


Yeah, but the actual probe that breaks through the ice, would have to be perfectly sterile as not to disrupt anything already living in that ecosystem, and you'd have to keep the hole sealed off so the subsurface ocean wouldn't be exposed to the sub-zero temp which would cause the subsurface ocean to freeze, thus killing anything in it. But they hopefully have all that worked out. Seems like an awful lot of work, building all that in a sterile enviroment and all.
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Posted 4/9/09


Yeah, which is probably why it is taking longer to do than the observer satellites. All the others have to do is look, after all.
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