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Is it wrong to download copyrighted material via Torrents?
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28 / M
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Posted 7/2/10

Rainbow_Resort wrote:


manzi wrote:



Hey, it's still illegal!

Piracy is morally destestable. Even if you're robbing from a "big" company like EA, those companies are still entitled to make money off what they sell. Stop trying to defend yourselves: pirating is a scumfuck maneuver, and there's no justification for it.


I figure since I'm here now, I might as well answer a few topics even if you probably won't get around to respond. Anyway. The definition of "piracy" is stealing, yes. But that definition applies only in the outside world, being that actual pirates remove the original content. I suppose in a way, filesharing is piracy, but...digital...piracy. Which is different. Digital piracy copies. Does not remove, steal, rob, what have you. Using such definitions for digital piracy is just fallacious.

For instance, you wouldn't be so cross if someone went into your house, took a long look at that expensive painting in your living room and then just painted it anew on a canvas he brought along and then stuffed the copied painting in his duffel bag, would you?

Or is that a bad example?

How about if, er, someone bought, say legally, a record in a store. Yeah. Then say that he/she went home and ripped said record and made like a hundred or so copies. Then say he/she stashed these copies on a table he/she owned, say his/her front lawn, and put a note on the table saying something along the lines of, "feel free to take whenever you like." This is a pretty good analogy of what filesharers do, if you were to set it in the outside world. And if the word "take" on that note is bugging you, then replace it with the word "borrow."

You're allowed to buy a record.
You're allowed to burn a record.
You're allowed to borrow a burnt record.

This is legal.
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22 / M
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Posted 7/2/10
I prefer to buy DVDs, Albums and all that. But I live in a town where you can't buy anything! Only things you can buy is groceries, and some over priced video games. 80 - 90$ for one game.
So when I want something. . . I go to that one site, where you get the free stuff.
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28 / M
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Posted 7/2/10
I buy my games, albums, films, etc. But I don't feel bad downloading things that I cannot come across as easily, usually animes but also some films and some albums. The reasoning I use is that the revenue is not lost. Filesharing has become a scapegoat for records and films and games selling badly, while in reality it's most likely the marketing and the company itself that caused their own downfall.

Some people are bound to download regardless, so their revenue is always lost, and therefore the revenue they get come from people who refuse to and those who do both.

There won't ever be a sudden increase unless they prevent filesharing or downloading altogether. Permanently.


Which brings me back to my first point, which is why CR won't allow downloads on this site.
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49 / F / Center of the Uni...
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Posted 7/2/10 , edited 7/2/10

Rainbow_Resort wrote:



Drop the quotation marks. There's no debate: in downloading copyrighted material for free, you are stealing it.



Yes that's what the cable companies insist it is in their 'stealing is stealing' commercials. Last I heard the cable companies were not the guardian's of society's morals nor in command of my personal ethical code.

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49 / F / Center of the Uni...
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Posted 7/2/10
Back to the OP.

Yes it's wrong. More importantly,(since most people clearly don't care if it's wrong) if done often enough by enough people, It's stupid and self defeating. If you make it sufficiently unprofitable to provide a service or produce a good. the provider/producer will quit and do something more rewarding with their time.
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40 / M / Where the heart is
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Posted 7/2/10
And that ^ is why I buy boxed set anime. I downloaded music off the original napster, but even if I didn't I don't buy music, so they would not have profited from me either way FM radio is good enough. I stream most of what I watch so I don't have an IP trail all over the place.
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Posted 7/2/10
I think this is a worthwhile debate. Since a lot of this was only made illegal in the last few years, under pressure from the big media companies, who failed to provide consumers with what they wanted, and lost profits, then lurched around looking for someone to blame.

Anime has been made popular by fansubbing and filesharing, when it started it wasn't illegal, even though it was actionable under civil law if the copyright holder chose to act.

This is the huge difference that has been brought about that I consider to be undemocratic. It's changing what is in effect a dispute between the consumer and the copyright holder about price, supply, quality, geo blocking, etc etc, (a lot of issues which makers never addressed), and turning this dispute into a crime to be actioned by the state.

I personally expect the politicians to be spending the states resources catching criminals which do real harm, not to waste time and resources giving huge amounts of free help to businesses who can't be bothered understanding the consumers.

Secondly the law is about copyright not about watch or viewing rights.

Companies have deliberately twisted the law, to hit people who view or preview a product before making a purchasing decision.

Copyright is all about who has the right to the commercial and financial rewards of a creation. Filesharing can harm this if people are taking creation to keep a copy that they would normally buy, but this has never been demonstrated or proven. Simply claimed without evidence when artists (mostly musicians) found after milking listeners by pumping out endless bland rehashes claimed their fall in sales only happened because of filesharing.

Article 27 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights:

Right to participate in cultural life

1. Everyone has the right freely to participate in the cultural life of the community, to enjoy the arts and to share in scientific advancement and its benefits.
2. Everyone has the right to the protection of the moral and material interests resulting from any scientific, literary or artistic production of which he is the author.

I think this makes it clear it is not a black and white issue. Yes the creators have a right to benefit from their work, (note a lot of the legal action is taken by companies who don't care about the creation and just bought rights with the aim to sue people for money) but once a creation is put out to the people, they too have a right to enjoy it and not be excluded on grounds of poverty, race, nationality, location or any other factors that separate people.
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28 / F
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Posted 8/1/10
Morally and legally? Yes but who really cares?
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22 / F / in the city bying...
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Posted 8/1/10
well its illegal here.
but i reckon its totally fine. i mean they make it out that your "stealing" from another person but stealing is when you take something from another person and they dont have it any more, so its copying not stealing.
I reckon for music, it alright. As in, it increases greatly on the number of people who go to concerts.
but for movies and books, not so much. because for movies and books, the makers still wont get anything out of it.
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31 / M / Wisconsin
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Posted 8/1/10
My opinion is that it is wrong, but it is a small wrong.
Posted 8/1/10
hmm well if it's illegal then it should be available in the first place
Posted 8/1/10
Download a car.
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26 / F / Cow Town, CA
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Posted 8/2/10 , edited 8/2/10
Wrong? Well that depends on your personal morals. But illegal? Yes.
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24 / F / hell
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Posted 8/2/10
i've never downloaded anything from torrents because im too scared of getting viruses
Posted 8/2/10
well i only thought it was wrong once when my mom brought home a movie that was filmed in the theater but know its just like whatever
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