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Torture for interrogations.
Yei
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Posted 4/20/09

Allhailodin wrote:


Yei wrote:


Allhailodin wrote:
Well, its not torture like being whipped or cut with stuff, however from what i've heard it's actually a very effective method of interrogation, and water isn't poured into their mouth, you get something like a tub of water, and dunk their head in it, for idk I wanna say a minute, minute and a half, not long enough to kill them, but long enough to make em think their going to die, It's not as brutal as whipping or slicing them, but its still effective, and if they refuse to say anything after you've dunked em underwater, you just do it again and again until they say what you need em to say. I'm not really talking about if its cruel or not, it is cruel, I know it's really cruel, but I'm asking more about effectiveness. if torture would be a effective interrogation method or not.


This is waterboarding: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CgZDsG0lYOs

The victim is strapped down so he can't move at all and the table they are strapped to is tilted up so they are almost upside down. Water is poured on their face, filling their mouth and lungs. It is torture, period. And like all torture, it's not effective, because if the person is innocent and doesn't know anything, they keep doing it to them. And eventually they die or make up something to say to stop the torture. That's why torture in general doesn't work and is wrong, if the person really doesn't have the answers they are looking for, what's the point?


Well what if the suspect isn't innocent ? I mean sure it might happen to a few innocent people, but that's to be expected, nobody's perfect right ? Can't expect em to not get a few innocent people, it's bound to happen. But what if they deserved to be tortured ? Like if they brutally murdered a child or several children ? In that case, they deserve to be tortured. So if they do deserve it, then is there still a problem ? If they deserved it, why does it matter how you treat them ?


But you're talking about interrogation not just punishment, if you want to get information, torture doesn't work unless you can somehow magically know that the suspect has the information you're looking for. And alot of the time the suspect might not, and so they are being tortured for no reason AND they will give false information to end their suffering. It's just not a reliable way to get information.
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Posted 4/20/09

Yei wrote:


Allhailodin wrote:


Yei wrote:


Allhailodin wrote:
Well, its not torture like being whipped or cut with stuff, however from what i've heard it's actually a very effective method of interrogation, and water isn't poured into their mouth, you get something like a tub of water, and dunk their head in it, for idk I wanna say a minute, minute and a half, not long enough to kill them, but long enough to make em think their going to die, It's not as brutal as whipping or slicing them, but its still effective, and if they refuse to say anything after you've dunked em underwater, you just do it again and again until they say what you need em to say. I'm not really talking about if its cruel or not, it is cruel, I know it's really cruel, but I'm asking more about effectiveness. if torture would be a effective interrogation method or not.


This is waterboarding: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CgZDsG0lYOs

The victim is strapped down so he can't move at all and the table they are strapped to is tilted up so they are almost upside down. Water is poured on their face, filling their mouth and lungs. It is torture, period. And like all torture, it's not effective, because if the person is innocent and doesn't know anything, they keep doing it to them. And eventually they die or make up something to say to stop the torture. That's why torture in general doesn't work and is wrong, if the person really doesn't have the answers they are looking for, what's the point?


Well what if the suspect isn't innocent ? I mean sure it might happen to a few innocent people, but that's to be expected, nobody's perfect right ? Can't expect em to not get a few innocent people, it's bound to happen. But what if they deserved to be tortured ? Like if they brutally murdered a child or several children ? In that case, they deserve to be tortured. So if they do deserve it, then is there still a problem ? If they deserved it, why does it matter how you treat them ?


But you're talking about interrogation not just punishment, if you want to get information, torture doesn't work unless you can somehow magically know that the suspect has the information you're looking for. And alot of the time the suspect might not, and so they are being tortured for no reason AND they will give false information to end their suffering. It's just not a reliable way to get information.


Ok, fair enough, but do you have a problem with someone being tortured as a punishment if they deserve it ? Like if someone raped and brutally murdered a couple of children ? In that case, it seems like a fitting punishment doesn't it ?
Yei
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Posted 4/20/09

Allhailodin wrote:

Ok, fair enough, but do you have a problem with someone being tortured as a punishment if they deserve it ? Like if someone raped and brutally murdered a couple of children ? In that case, it seems like a fitting punishment doesn't it ?


Yes. Maybe there will be justice in the afterlife, but just to be sure, we should try to make justice here. So people who really deserve to be tortured should be.
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Posted 4/20/09

Yei wrote:


Allhailodin wrote:

Ok, fair enough, but do you have a problem with someone being tortured as a punishment if they deserve it ? Like if someone raped and brutally murdered a couple of children ? In that case, it seems like a fitting punishment doesn't it ?


Yes. Maybe there will be justice in the afterlife, but just to be sure, we should try to make justice here. So people who really deserve to be tortured should be.


Yeap, people who deserve to be tortured, should be tortured, but sadly that will never happen where I live. Shame. be awesome if it did, china tortures people for something as insugnifiant as littering tho.
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Posted 4/20/09

Yei wrote:


Allhailodin wrote:
Well, its not torture like being whipped or cut with stuff, however from what i've heard it's actually a very effective method of interrogation, and water isn't poured into their mouth, you get something like a tub of water, and dunk their head in it, for idk I wanna say a minute, minute and a half, not long enough to kill them, but long enough to make em think their going to die, It's not as brutal as whipping or slicing them, but its still effective, and if they refuse to say anything after you've dunked em underwater, you just do it again and again until they say what you need em to say. I'm not really talking about if its cruel or not, it is cruel, I know it's really cruel, but I'm asking more about effectiveness. if torture would be a effective interrogation method or not.


This is waterboarding: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CgZDsG0lYOs

The victim is strapped down so he can't move at all and the table they are strapped to is tilted up so they are almost upside down. Water is poured on their face, filling their mouth and lungs. It is torture, period. And like all torture, it's not effective, because if the person is innocent and doesn't know anything, they keep doing it to them. And eventually they die or make up something to say to stop the torture. That's why torture in general doesn't work and is wrong, if the person really doesn't have the answers they are looking for, what's the point?


Das mah point!! wa if he is innocent. when u torture some1, hell say what u wanta hear.
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Posted 4/21/09
I don't think torture is an acceptable method of interrogation or punishment. Often people will simply say what you want to hear when using torture as interrogation. And that makes sense. If you're hurting me for hours on end for weeks or even months, eventually you won't be able to withstand the torture, and will say anything to escape the torture, even if it means going to jaol. There are some isolated cases when you can get the information you need, but on the whole tortrue does little to find a solution to whatever problem may exist. People who are innocent that are tortured (in cases of terrorism) can often turn to violence after such horrible injustices are committed against them. Once again, this does nothing to solve the problem of things like terrorism.

As punishment, I don't understand how torture could be useful either. These people are already forced to stay in prison for however long, by torturing them when they are interned, (in the case of terrorism), someone can be turned towards radicalism and extremism when they feel as though they are being treated poorly, like I said previously.

That being said, I will always find it appauling when police use brutality against anyone. Especially if someone has been recording them doing this, and the police try to confiscate such evidence against them (as it has been happening in places like Canada and the States). For some reason, protests, especially against the government or globalization always seem to erupt into police violence and we soon discover police using weapons in improper ways, such as tear gas cannons. These are supposed to be aimed at the ground, and the tear gas bobbles are supposed to richochet off the ground and onto whoever you're aiming at, however, time and again we have seen police using these cannons and aiming it directly at protesters. This sort of violence needs to stop.
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digs 
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Posted 4/21/09
I think it is crucial that we interrogate any means necessary, but I don't advocate torture and I think it's morally wrong/ineffective. When people are tortured they will say anything to get out of pain, and sometimes they deliberately lie and give fake information because they want to cause further damage. I am not for the soft treatment of prisoners, but I am against torture as a means of interrogation (I think maybe sedatives would work, or positive rewards like shorter sentencing).
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Posted 4/21/09 , edited 4/21/09

digs wrote:

I think it is crucial that we interrogate any means necessary, but I don't advocate torture and I think it's morally wrong/ineffective. When people are tortured they will say anything to get out of pain, and sometimes they deliberately lie and give fake information because they want to cause further damage. I am not for the soft treatment of prisoners, but I am against torture as a means of interrogation (I think maybe sedatives would work, or positive rewards like shorter sentencing).


Sedatives can't be used as a interrogation method, because a sedative would just put the criminal to sleep or just make whoever your interrogating really tired and unable to speak properly, and you can't can't interrogate someone when their sleeping can't you ? And shorter sentencing may be used, but they'll just say what you wanna hear to get the shorter sentencing, So that's not a really smart choice either. however you could try increasing their sentence if they become unwilling to cooperate.
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digs 
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Posted 4/21/09

Allhailodin wrote:


digs wrote:

I think it is crucial that we interrogate any means necessary, but I don't advocate torture and I think it's morally wrong/ineffective. When people are tortured they will say anything to get out of pain, and sometimes they deliberately lie and give fake information because they want to cause further damage. I am not for the soft treatment of prisoners, but I am against torture as a means of interrogation (I think maybe sedatives would work, or positive rewards like shorter sentencing).


Sedatives can't be used as a interrogation method, because a sedative would just put the criminal to sleep or just make whoever your interrogating really tired and unable to speak properly, and you can't can't interrogate someone when their sleeping can't you ? And shorter sentencing may be used, but they'll just say what you wanna hear to get the shorter sentencing, So that's not a really smart choice either. however you could try increasing their sentence if they become unwilling to cooperate.


By sedative I am meaning more of a nerve easer. Something that would get them to spill the truth because their judgments are impaired (kinda like how high people can say things they didn't want known). I guess sedative wasn't the best work, basically some kind of substance that would ease their nerves and get them to comply with the interrogators.
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Posted 4/21/09

digs wrote:


Allhailodin wrote:


digs wrote:

I think it is crucial that we interrogate any means necessary, but I don't advocate torture and I think it's morally wrong/ineffective. When people are tortured they will say anything to get out of pain, and sometimes they deliberately lie and give fake information because they want to cause further damage. I am not for the soft treatment of prisoners, but I am against torture as a means of interrogation (I think maybe sedatives would work, or positive rewards like shorter sentencing).


Sedatives can't be used as a interrogation method, because a sedative would just put the criminal to sleep or just make whoever your interrogating really tired and unable to speak properly, and you can't can't interrogate someone when their sleeping can't you ? And shorter sentencing may be used, but they'll just say what you wanna hear to get the shorter sentencing, So that's not a really smart choice either. however you could try increasing their sentence if they become unwilling to cooperate.


By sedative I am meaning more of a nerve easer. Something that would get them to spill the truth because their judgments are impaired (kinda like how high people can say things they didn't want known). I guess sedative wasn't the best work, basically some kind of substance that would ease their nerves and get them to comply with the interrogators.


So you mean something like get them wasted so their much more likely to tell the interrogators what they wanna know ? Might work.
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Posted 4/21/09

Allhailodin wrote:


digs wrote:


Allhailodin wrote:


digs wrote:

I think it is crucial that we interrogate any means necessary, but I don't advocate torture and I think it's morally wrong/ineffective. When people are tortured they will say anything to get out of pain, and sometimes they deliberately lie and give fake information because they want to cause further damage. I am not for the soft treatment of prisoners, but I am against torture as a means of interrogation (I think maybe sedatives would work, or positive rewards like shorter sentencing).


Sedatives can't be used as a interrogation method, because a sedative would just put the criminal to sleep or just make whoever your interrogating really tired and unable to speak properly, and you can't can't interrogate someone when their sleeping can't you ? And shorter sentencing may be used, but they'll just say what you wanna hear to get the shorter sentencing, So that's not a really smart choice either. however you could try increasing their sentence if they become unwilling to cooperate.


By sedative I am meaning more of a nerve easer. Something that would get them to spill the truth because their judgments are impaired (kinda like how high people can say things they didn't want known). I guess sedative wasn't the best work, basically some kind of substance that would ease their nerves and get them to comply with the interrogators.


So you mean something like get them wasted so their much more likely to tell the interrogators what they wanna know ? Might work.


Basically yes. Use something to impair their judgment so they spill what we need to know from them.
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Posted 4/21/09

digs wrote:


Allhailodin wrote:


digs wrote:


Allhailodin wrote:


digs wrote:

I think it is crucial that we interrogate any means necessary, but I don't advocate torture and I think it's morally wrong/ineffective. When people are tortured they will say anything to get out of pain, and sometimes they deliberately lie and give fake information because they want to cause further damage. I am not for the soft treatment of prisoners, but I am against torture as a means of interrogation (I think maybe sedatives would work, or positive rewards like shorter sentencing).


Sedatives can't be used as a interrogation method, because a sedative would just put the criminal to sleep or just make whoever your interrogating really tired and unable to speak properly, and you can't can't interrogate someone when their sleeping can't you ? And shorter sentencing may be used, but they'll just say what you wanna hear to get the shorter sentencing, So that's not a really smart choice either. however you could try increasing their sentence if they become unwilling to cooperate.


By sedative I am meaning more of a nerve easer. Something that would get them to spill the truth because their judgments are impaired (kinda like how high people can say things they didn't want known). I guess sedative wasn't the best work, basically some kind of substance that would ease their nerves and get them to comply with the interrogators.


So you mean something like get them wasted so their much more likely to tell the interrogators what they wanna know ? Might work.


Basically yes. Use something to impair their judgment so they spill what we need to know from them.


Awesome, I like that idea
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digs 
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Posted 4/21/09

Allhailodin wrote:


digs wrote:


Allhailodin wrote:


digs wrote:


Allhailodin wrote:


digs wrote:

I think it is crucial that we interrogate any means necessary, but I don't advocate torture and I think it's morally wrong/ineffective. When people are tortured they will say anything to get out of pain, and sometimes they deliberately lie and give fake information because they want to cause further damage. I am not for the soft treatment of prisoners, but I am against torture as a means of interrogation (I think maybe sedatives would work, or positive rewards like shorter sentencing).


Sedatives can't be used as a interrogation method, because a sedative would just put the criminal to sleep or just make whoever your interrogating really tired and unable to speak properly, and you can't can't interrogate someone when their sleeping can't you ? And shorter sentencing may be used, but they'll just say what you wanna hear to get the shorter sentencing, So that's not a really smart choice either. however you could try increasing their sentence if they become unwilling to cooperate.


By sedative I am meaning more of a nerve easer. Something that would get them to spill the truth because their judgments are impaired (kinda like how high people can say things they didn't want known). I guess sedative wasn't the best work, basically some kind of substance that would ease their nerves and get them to comply with the interrogators.


So you mean something like get them wasted so their much more likely to tell the interrogators what they wanna know ? Might work.


Basically yes. Use something to impair their judgment so they spill what we need to know from them.


Awesome, I like that idea


Thanks, I honestly think it would be very effective.
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Posted 4/21/09

digs wrote:


Allhailodin wrote:


digs wrote:


Allhailodin wrote:


digs wrote:


Allhailodin wrote:


digs wrote:

I think it is crucial that we interrogate any means necessary, but I don't advocate torture and I think it's morally wrong/ineffective. When people are tortured they will say anything to get out of pain, and sometimes they deliberately lie and give fake information because they want to cause further damage. I am not for the soft treatment of prisoners, but I am against torture as a means of interrogation (I think maybe sedatives would work, or positive rewards like shorter sentencing).


Sedatives can't be used as a interrogation method, because a sedative would just put the criminal to sleep or just make whoever your interrogating really tired and unable to speak properly, and you can't can't interrogate someone when their sleeping can't you ? And shorter sentencing may be used, but they'll just say what you wanna hear to get the shorter sentencing, So that's not a really smart choice either. however you could try increasing their sentence if they become unwilling to cooperate.


By sedative I am meaning more of a nerve easer. Something that would get them to spill the truth because their judgments are impaired (kinda like how high people can say things they didn't want known). I guess sedative wasn't the best work, basically some kind of substance that would ease their nerves and get them to comply with the interrogators.


So you mean something like get them wasted so their much more likely to tell the interrogators what they wanna know ? Might work.


Basically yes. Use something to impair their judgment so they spill what we need to know from them.


Awesome, I like that idea


Thanks, I honestly think it would be very effective.


Yeap I agree
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Posted 4/22/09 , edited 4/22/09
I against it. Torture people for interrogation? Cruel.....Why force a human being speak out the truth or info by forcing and torturing them lol? What if they die out of the sudden while torturing them and the government was force to cover-up?....i bet there is lots of this similar cases....
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