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Humans = Apes
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Posted 4/20/09

Yei wrote:


Allhailodin wrote:


Yei wrote:

They're at par with us when it comes to language and art....... sure...

And I don't understand what scientists being atheist or thinking we're closely linked to apes has to do with anything.


No, their better then us when it comes to those things, they beat us in pretty much everything, execpt reasoning, but everywhere else, they own us.

And what he's saying is most scientists don't believe in a god, because they look at all the scientific facts we've gathered and figured out that a higher power makes no sense what-so-ever.


I haven't really heard many ape languages. I speak three languages, are you telling me apes can learn our languages just as good as us? And if they're so superior, why are they the ones who get put in zoos with other animals while we made it to the moon?

And I know what he was saying, but what does that have to do with anything???


'English is my 3rd Language.'

I speak 4 languages.. And the apes knoledge in human languages I be happy to look it up for you...
But not now... 11:19..PM,, and I have Sci Fi to wach..and after that bed for I have work in the morning.
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Posted 4/20/09 , edited 4/20/09

Yei wrote:


Allhailodin wrote:


Yei wrote:

They're at par with us when it comes to language and art....... sure...

And I don't understand what scientists being atheist or thinking we're closely linked to apes has to do with anything.


No, their better then us when it comes to those things, they beat us in pretty much everything, execpt reasoning, but everywhere else, they own us.

And what he's saying is most scientists don't believe in a god, because they look at all the scientific facts we've gathered and figured out that a higher power makes no sense what-so-ever.


I haven't really heard many ape languages. I speak three languages, are you telling me apes can learn our languages just as good as us? And if they're so superior, why are they the ones who get put in zoos with other animals while we made it to the moon?


Lets see, they rape us in strength, you agree with that right ? They rape us in speed or traveling over the ground, you agree with that right ? From what i know they beat us in genetic diversity(humans fail horribly in that category, we are one of the least genetic diverse animals on the planet) didn't know if you knew that but that's true. Apes don't have a very evolved "Language" ability, humans are superior the other hominids in that, well they don't have the advanced vocal chords we do, so they might actually be evenly matched, but we just don't know it, but they are capable or learning sign language, which is technically language, but as for you knowing 3 verbal languages, thats just proof out language ability is superior, also our "reasoning" is superior, and since our reasoning is far superior to all other animals, that the key reason why we have dominated the world, if gorillas had the same reasoning and problem solving we do, they would be far superior to us in every aspect well maybe not language, they would completely own us, which would suck, if i remember correctly reasoning is problem solving, or figuring out how to solve (or build or engineer something) problems (taking a situation processing it and coming up with one or more solutions) is why we have dominated earth, and the moon, and quite possibily in the near future mars. But we lose in just about every other category sadly.
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Posted 4/20/09

Allhailodin wrote:

Lets see, they rape us in strength, you agree with that right ? They rape us in speed or traveling over the ground, you agree with that right ? From what i know they beat us in genetic diversity(humans fail horribly in that category, we are one of the least genetic diverse animals on the planet) didn't know if you knew that but that's true. Apes don't have a very evolved "Language" ability, humans are superior the other hominids in that, well they don't have the advanced vocal chords we do, so they might actually be evenly matched, but we just don't know it, but they are capable or learning sign language, which is technically language, but as for you knowing 3 verbal languages, thats just proof out language ability is superior, also our "reasoning" is superior, and since our reasoning is far superior to all other animals, that the key reason why we have dominated the world, if gorillas had the same reasoning and problem solving we do, they would be far superior to us in every aspect well maybe not language, they would completely own us, which would suck, if i remember correctly reasoning is problem solving, or figuring out how to solve (or build or engineer something) problems (taking a situation processing it and coming up with one or more solutions) is why we have dominated earth, and the moon, and quite possibily in the near future mars. But we lose in just about every other category sadly.


But fortunately, we're superior in what really matters. And this is very clear, right?
Yei
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Posted 4/20/09
btw, I've had many annoying conversations with fundamentalists, like one who denied the existence of dinosaurs. And I had to explain why he was wrong. This conversation goes right up there on my list of ridiculous things I had to explain to extremists on either side.
Posted 4/20/09
this is becoming a flaming thread =T
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Posted 4/20/09

Yei wrote:


Allhailodin wrote:

Lets see, they rape us in strength, you agree with that right ? They rape us in speed or traveling over the ground, you agree with that right ? From what i know they beat us in genetic diversity(humans fail horribly in that category, we are one of the least genetic diverse animals on the planet) didn't know if you knew that but that's true. Apes don't have a very evolved "Language" ability, humans are superior the other hominids in that, well they don't have the advanced vocal chords we do, so they might actually be evenly matched, but we just don't know it, but they are capable or learning sign language, which is technically language, but as for you knowing 3 verbal languages, thats just proof out language ability is superior, also our "reasoning" is superior, and since our reasoning is far superior to all other animals, that the key reason why we have dominated the world, if gorillas had the same reasoning and problem solving we do, they would be far superior to us in every aspect well maybe not language, they would completely own us, which would suck, if i remember correctly reasoning is problem solving, or figuring out how to solve (or build or engineer something) problems (taking a situation processing it and coming up with one or more solutions) is why we have dominated earth, and the moon, and quite possibily in the near future mars. But we lose in just about every other category sadly.


But fortunately, we're superior in what really matters. And this is very clear, right?


Yeah, but the question is "For how long" maybe another million years or two, another animal will evolve to where we are currently, but the way it looks right now, is human intelligence is actually dropping with every generation, I mean, look at all the obviously stupid and idiotic shit people do on a daily basis, as that shouldn't be happening unless human intelligence is starting to go backwards, sadly, so if my idea is true, one day in ou't near future we may actually be below the other animals, and there will be absolutely nothing anyone can do about it, sucks yeah, but what can you do ? Well unless of course something "interesting" happens like a all out nuclear war and we completely destroy ourselves and everything else on earth, or a major geological event occurs like yellowstone erupting, might cause some serious problems if that happens, so from my point of view, humans are fucked either way. nothing you can do but sit back and watch.
Yei
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Posted 4/20/09
You know what this forum has really made clear? cuddlebuns was right about both sides being vulnerable to irrationality.

People who are really religious, like the fundamentalists, put their logic and thinking and rationality aside because they are blinded by their extremist beliefs. But then we got the crazy atheists like Allhailodin and Darkphoenix who also put all rationality aside because they are blinded by their extremist beliefs as well. Both extremes hate the other side soo much and are so ridiculously certain that they have everything figured out, they end up having the lowest form of thinking, and being obsessed with their stances.

Seriously, you two talk about religion and God more than religious people do. And Darkphoenix randomly bringing up the percentage of atheist scientists and making a topic bashing God and religion every five seconds kind of indicates something like an obsession. And Allhailodin, you always try to show how immoral you are. Even when it's not relevant. "I don't care what happens to other people as long as it doesn't affect me", "it would be fun to watch others suffer", etc. And then you always seem to get less extreme when I talk some sense into you, and you always respond with "fair enough" lol. It's like you just try to annoy religious people and people with any faith or morality, for whatever reason.

You're both in the same category as religious fundamentalists/extremists/bigots, and you need to try to stop making it seem like you're blindly obsessed with bashing religion and faith.

now that I got that off of my chest, I'm going to bed. Good night
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Posted 4/21/09 , edited 4/21/09
This thread is another very sad example of miscommunication between two extreme ends of a spectrum simply because they both charge into a discussion knowing and wanting to disagree with the other side.

Allhailodin was trying to say that on the biological taxonomy scale/chart/whatever, we are classified as apes along with several other animals that we usually think of when we hear the word "ape." The word "ape" has a totally different meaning in taxonomy from the common usage of the word. It simply describes traits that we share in common with other species in the order Primates (which I think includes semi- or full-bipedalism and a flat, broad face). So yes, when classifying life from a purely scientific standpoint, we are in the "ape" category along with those other species.

What Allhailodin failed to do was explain the difference between the common use of the word "ape" and the scientific use of that word. Even though biologically speaking we are apes, that does not mean we are the exact same as other animals in that category. Anyone who's taken a biology course at high school level or higher should know that taxonomy classifies organisms by various characteristics, and that organisms with similar characteristics will be in similar categories. The organism that he posted that is most similar to us, Chimpanzees, is in the same category as us all the way until the Genus level, which is where we stop sharing characteristics. So we are very similar to them, but not the same as them.

A more appropriate title would be "Humans~Apes" instead of "Humans=Apes," since you can't expect anyone on this forum or the internet in general to know anything about taxonomy, or at least that wont be the first thing they think of when they see the word "ape." Just to be clear, in this case the word "ape" means "Order Primate" on the biological taxonomy scale, which is different than common usage which generally means "monkey."

Of course, denying that we are animals is just plain ignorant. Believing that we are superior is fine (although also somewhat ignorant, but that's an area where facts are tossed out the window and it comes down to personal opinion) but denying that we are animals is basically denying the scientific definition of the word "animal." If you don't "believe" that we are eukaryotic, multicellular, heterotrophic organisms (which is the scientific definition of an animal) then you've either never taken a biology course or were asleep the whole time.

Although now I guess I understand why Allhailodin didn't say anything about scientific definitions, since all of the religious people in here who misunderstood him would've just disregarded it as a pile of "atheist bullshit," since that's apparently what all science is.


Yei wrote:

You know what this forum has really made clear? cuddlebuns was right about both sides being vulnerable to irrationality.


Not just "both" sides, every side, including us "middle" people. It's funny how we have all these pointless arguments and somehow think that that makes us better than all other animals, who only fight when necessary over things that really matter (food and deciding who has the best genes to pass on to the next generation).
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Posted 4/21/09

Yei wrote:

You know what this forum has really made clear? cuddlebuns was right about both sides being vulnerable to irrationality.

People who are really religious, like the fundamentalists, put their logic and thinking and rationality aside because they are blinded by their extremist beliefs. But then we got the crazy atheists like Allhailodin and Darkphoenix who also put all rationality aside because they are blinded by their extremist beliefs as well. Both extremes hate the other side soo much and are so ridiculously certain that they have everything figured out, they end up having the lowest form of thinking, and being obsessed with their stances.

Seriously, you two talk about religion and God more than religious people do. And Darkphoenix randomly bringing up the percentage of atheist scientists and making a topic bashing God and religion every five seconds kind of indicates something like an obsession. And Allhailodin, you always try to show how immoral you are. Even when it's not relevant. "I don't care what happens to other people as long as it doesn't affect me", "it would be fun to watch others suffer", etc. And then you always seem to get less extreme when I talk some sense into you, and you always respond with "fair enough" lol. It's like you just try to annoy religious people and people with any faith or morality, for whatever reason.

You're both in the same category as religious fundamentalists/extremists/bigots, and you need to try to stop making it seem like you're blindly obsessed with bashing religion and faith.

now that I got that off of my chest, I'm going to bed. Good night


Ouch, I got owned, lol, However I'm not exactly too fond of being called a "atheist extremest" and a "bigot" when I am neither of those, I if were a "Atheist extremest" why would I think the concept of a higher power makes sense ? While yes I do admit, I do enjoy bashing stupid <--- Keyword, christians, I have no problem with them in real life, i've even been friends with them, something a "extremest atheist" would not be willing to do. Also if I were a "bigot" why would I be willing to adknowledge that someone elses conflicting opinion makes more sense then mine ? Thus I would never end a conversation with "i guess so" or "Fair enough" which is saying that I adknowledge your argument is better then mine. So i'm not a "Extremest atheist" nor a "bigot"


And the point of this tread was to clear up the biological classification of humans, and make most people understand once and for all that we are humans and we are apes. Not to get any "extremest" views across.
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Posted 4/21/09
i thought extended discussion was supposed to attract the more intelligent members of cr. welp, guess i was wrong
Posted 4/21/09

mystic17 wrote:


Allhailodin wrote:


Again, its not an opinion, you are an animal and so am I, that is a fact, not an opinion, can't argue this, you are an animal, deal with it.


i say that because your opinion is you believe that's true & i say other ^-^


WAIT..you're DUST, AM I RIGHT?!?!


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Posted 4/21/09

HumanInstrumentality wrote:

i thought extended discussion was supposed to attract the more intelligent members of cr. welp, guess i was wrong


It's meant to attract people who can stand to read and write responses longer than two lines, and who actually read the posts in the thread before posting the same thing that 150 other people posted earlier. "Extended" refers to the length of the posts, not the intellect of the posters.
Posted 4/21/09
^ this cuddlebuns-something is right, yo.
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Posted 4/21/09 , edited 4/21/09

Yei wrote:


Well for some reason it's not letting me delete my earlier posts, dunno why, so I had to re-quote you, anyway, you called me a "bigot" and an "extremest atheist" which is incorrect, I am neither of those, first let's start with "Extremest Atheist", There is just no way I can be an extremest atheist, because 1, those people piss me off with their crap just as much as they piss off everyone else, and 2, I have actually pondered the question of a higher power for long time, and yes I do agree that the concept of a "higher power" makes sense, it actually makes a lot of sense, I agree with you and on that, however, the higher power itself does not make sense to me, because, where did it come from ?, who created it ? who created the thing that created it ?, and why did it suddenly decide to create a universe and populate it with life ?, and so on, if i had a answer to those questions, I would probally believe in a higer power. So I am by no means an extremest atheist, I'm actually more in the middle, and second, you called me a "bigot" and thats simply not true, actually I am a very open minded person, and willing to accept just about any idea as long as it makes sense. I am the most open minded person I know. Any if someone elses idea makes more sense then mine, I'm willing to accept it, thus I am not a bigot. moving on


As for how you came to the assumption that i was either of those I'm assuming comes from my conversation with toby, well I originally made this topic, because I kept seeing how people were ignorantly saying that they were not animals, and after a saw a fairly high number of people making this same ignorant assumption, it began to irritate me, so i made a thread about it, to prove them wrong, that we are in fact animals, biologically speaking and we are technically classifies as apes, biologically speaking, so when I saw how people were continuing to ignorantly deny the facts I just gave them, it pissed me off, and when i saw how toby reacted, I went off on him, shouldn't have done if, but he freaking pissed me off.

It would have pissed me off to no end to have someone call me both a "extremest atheist" and a "bigot"( both of which are people who really annoy me btw,) and for me to leave it unclarified. So I had to clarify this, or it would have pissed me off for fucking forever. Next time someone makes a stupid assumption about me like that, without actually knowing anything about me, I probally won't be so inclined to respond to it in such a polite manner.
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Posted 4/21/09 , edited 4/21/09

Allhailodin wrote:


Well for some reason it's not letting me delete my earlier posts, dunno why, so I had to re-quote you, anyway, you called me a "bigot" and an "extremest atheist" which is incorrect, I am neither of those, first let's start with "Extremest Atheist", There is just no way I can be an extremest atheist, because 1, those people piss me off with their crap just as much as they piss off everyone else, and 2, I have actually pondered the question of a higher power for long time, and yes I do agree that the concept of a "higher power" makes sense, it actually makes a lot of sense, I agree with you and on that, however, the higher power itself does not make sense to me, because, where did it come from ?, who created it ? who created the thing that created it ?, and why did it suddenly decide to create a universe and populate it with life ?, and so on, if i had a answer to those questions, I would probally believe in a higer power. So I am by no means an extremest atheist, I'm actually more in the middle, and second, you called me a "bigot" and thats simply not true, actually I am a very open minded person, and willing to accept just about any idea as long as it makes sense. I am the most open minded person I know. Any if someone elses idea makes more sense then mine, I'm willing to accept it, thus I am not a bigot. moving on

As for how you came to the assumption that i was either of those I'm assuming comes from my conversation with toby, well I originally made this topic, because I kept seeing how people were ignorantly saying that they were not animals, and after a saw a fairly high number of people making this same ignorant assumption, it began to irritate me, so i made a thread about it, to prove them wrong, that we are in fact animals, biologically speaking and we are technically classifies as apes, biologically speaking, so when I saw how people were continuing to ignorantly deny the facts I just gave them, it pissed me off, and when i saw how toby reacted, I went off on him, shouldn't have done if, but he freaking pissed me off.

It would have pissed me off to no end to have someone call me both a "extremest atheist" and a "bigot"( both of which are people who really annoy me btw,) and for me to leave it unclarified. So I had to clarify this, or it would have pissed me off for fucking forever. Next time someone makes a stupid assumption about me like that, without actually knowing anything about me, I probally won't be so inclined to respond to it in such a polite manner.


There's no need to get all technical about it, my point is you put alot of thinking aside to bash religion just like the fundamentalists do to keep their beliefs. Darkpheonix is more of the bigot, and by extremist atheist I just mean you're just too anti-religion.


On a lighter note, I've convinced my religions teacher to show Religulous in class
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