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Does Scientific Life Necessarily Coincide With Moral Life?
Yei
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Posted 4/26/09 , edited 4/26/09
Can anyone tell me what Christians generally believe about what happens to aborted babies?
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Posted 4/26/09

Yei wrote:

Can anyone tell me what Christians generally believe about what happens to aborted babies?


I can we generally believe that the aborted children go to heaven, we also believe infants and children who die go to heaven as well because of their innocence and lack of understanding. God's mercy is upon them because they don't understand, the same goes for the souls of the aborted babies.
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Posted 4/26/09 , edited 4/26/09

digs wrote:


Yei wrote:

Can anyone tell me what Christians generally believe about what happens to aborted babies?


I can we generally believe that the aborted children go to heaven, we also believe infants and children who die go to heaven as well because of their innocence and lack of understanding. God's mercy is upon them because they don't understand, the same goes for the souls of the aborted babies.


That's great. So why are abortions bad? If those babies were allowed to grow up, chances are they won't become Christians and might lead a very sinful life and end up going to hell. So it could be considered a good thing that they were aborted, they get an easy pass to heaven. Sure they miss out on this life, but this world is horrible and difficult, it would be awesome if I could go straight to heaven and skip this messed up world and not have to be judged.

That's kind of unfair for the people who don't die as children, we have to figure things out for ourselves and behave to get into heaven.
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Posted 4/26/09

Yei wrote:


digs wrote:


Yei wrote:

Can anyone tell me what Christians generally believe about what happens to aborted babies?


I can we generally believe that the aborted children go to heaven, we also believe infants and children who die go to heaven as well because of their innocence and lack of understanding. God's mercy is upon them because they don't understand, the same goes for the souls of the aborted babies.


That's great. So why are abortions bad? If those babies were allowed to grow up, chances are they won't become Christians and might lead a very sinful life and end up going to hell. So it could be considered a good thing that they were aborted, they get an easy pass to heaven. Sure they miss out on this life, but this world is horrible and difficult, it would be awesome if I could go straight to heaven and skip this messed up world and not have to be judged.

That's kind of unfair for the people who don't die as children, we have to figure things out for ourselves and behave to get into heaven.


Abortions are bad because it is still the murder of a human life. Killing a child is still wrong despite the young one going to heaven. Here is an in depth article about that addresses that question specifically http://www.epm.org/artman2/publish/prolife_the_bible_and_abortion/If_an_unborn_baby_is_better_off_in_God_s_presence_then_why_do_Christians_consider_abortion_a_crime_against_the_unborn.shtml. I would answer myself but this article does a much better job than I can and it's longer then what I have time to write.
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Posted 4/26/09

digs wrote:

Abortions are bad because it is still the murder of a human life. Killing a child is still wrong despite the young one going to heaven. Here is an in depth article about that addresses that question specifically http://www.epm.org/artman2/publish/prolife_the_bible_and_abortion/If_an_unborn_baby_is_better_off_in_God_s_presence_then_why_do_Christians_consider_abortion_a_crime_against_the_unborn.shtml. I would answer myself but this article does a much better job than I can and it's longer then what I have time to write.


I read it, and I don't fully understand. This logic is wrong because God hates the death of the innocent? But like it says, it's in their best interests. Wouldn't God want what's best for us? And clearly, dying before the 'accountability' age, like it says in that article, is in the best interests of the child because they are ensured heaven. Wouldn't God want that? The scriptures obviously say the opposite, no you shouldn't kill children and babies, but why does it say that? It's in the baby's best interests, so why does God/scripture go against abortion?
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Posted 4/26/09 , edited 4/26/09

Yei wrote:


digs wrote:

Abortions are bad because it is still the murder of a human life. Killing a child is still wrong despite the young one going to heaven. Here is an in depth article about that addresses that question specifically http://www.epm.org/artman2/publish/prolife_the_bible_and_abortion/If_an_unborn_baby_is_better_off_in_God_s_presence_then_why_do_Christians_consider_abortion_a_crime_against_the_unborn.shtml. I would answer myself but this article does a much better job than I can and it's longer then what I have time to write.


I read it, and I don't fully understand. This logic is wrong because God hates the death of the innocent? But like it says, it's in their best interests. Wouldn't God want what's best for us? And clearly, dying before the 'accountability' age, like it says in that article, is in the best interests of the child because they are ensured heaven. Wouldn't God want that? The scriptures obviously say the opposite, no you shouldn't kill children and babies, but why does it say that? It's in the baby's best interests, so why does God/scripture go against abortion?


But are the abortions preformed on the basis of wanting to send their children to heaven? I highly doubt that any to date have had that motive, it is a tool used by Christians to try and rationalize why abortion is acceptable. The infants sacrificed to Molech were still considered to be murdered, and although those children went to heaven, it was not apart of God's purpose that they be sacrificed to an idol. God wants us to choose Him on our own and embrace the life that He has created us for. We are essentially depriving the child of the life that God created for it to live. In a way we are playing God by committing murder, because He is the one who dictates when our last day shall be. The Bible doesn't want us to kill children because it's still murder and it is not apart of what God's Will for that child is. God will accept that child into heaven, but it wasn't His purpose or Will that the child be murdered.
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Posted 4/26/09 , edited 4/26/09

digs wrote:

But are the abortions preformed on the basis of wanting to send their children to heaven? I highly doubt that any to date have had that motive, it is a tool used by Christians to try and rationalize why abortion is acceptable. The infants sacrificed to Molech were still considered to be murdered, and although those children went to heaven, it was not apart of God's purpose that they be sacrificed to an idol. God wants us to choose Him on our own and embrace the life that He has created us for. We are essentially depriving the child of the life that God created for it to live. In a way we are playing God by committing murder, because He is the one who dictates when our last day shall be. The Bible doesn't want us to kill children because it's still murder and it is not apart of what God's Will for that child is. God will accept that child into heaven, but it wasn't His purpose or Will that the child be murdered.


But it is in the child's best interests, right? It doesn't matter why it's aborted, the abortion is a good thing for the baby because it's being sent straight to heaven. Right? It's not part of God's will or purpose, but it still happens, and it's still a positive thing for that child.
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Posted 4/26/09 , edited 4/26/09

Yei wrote:


digs wrote:

But are the abortions preformed on the basis of wanting to send their children to heaven? I highly doubt that any to date have had that motive, it is a tool used by Christians to try and rationalize why abortion is acceptable. The infants sacrificed to Molech were still considered to be murdered, and although those children went to heaven, it was not apart of God's purpose that they be sacrificed to an idol. God wants us to choose Him on our own and embrace the life that He has created us for. We are essentially depriving the child of the life that God created for it to live. In a way we are playing God by committing murder, because He is the one who dictates when our last day shall be. The Bible doesn't want us to kill children because it's still murder and it is not apart of what God's Will for that child is. God will accept that child into heaven, but it wasn't His purpose or Will that the child be murdered.


But it is in the child's best interests, right? It doesn't matter why it's aborted, the abortion is a good thing for the baby because it's being sent straight to heaven. Right? It's not part of God's will or purpose, but it still happens, and it's still a positive thing for that child.


What would be in the child's best interest is to allow it to live for Christ and serve God the years it is supposed to be on the earth for, rather than end it's life and send it straight to heaven. The abortion is not a positive thing for the child, that child is an intimately woven piece of creation and God has a plan in store for every human being (although it is up to us to embrace Him and be obedient to that plan). Sure the child goes to heaven, but that is because it was murdered. Technically under the same logic wouldn't killing off all Christians be in our best interest because we are being sent to heaven? No, we all have a purpose on this earth and God is the one who will take us out of the world when we have completed the things He has for us. When God looks at the fetus He sees His creation and knows the plans He has for that individual and unique creation. God Loves that unborn person with all His Heart and it saddens Him to see that precious life be snuffed out before it's time. God is merciful and will accept that child into heaven, but it is still a sin and it breaks His Heart.
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Posted 4/26/09 , edited 4/26/09

digs wrote:

What would be in the child's best interest is to allow it to live for Christ and serve God the years it is supposed to be on the earth for, rather than end it's life and send it straight to heaven. The abortion is not a positive thing for the child, that child is an intimately woven piece of creation and God has a plan in store for every human being (although it is up to us to embrace Him and be obedient to that plan). Sure the child goes to heaven, but that is because it was murdered. Technically under the same logic wouldn't killing off all Christians be in our best interest because we are being sent to heaven? No, we all have a purpose on this earth and God is the one who will take us out of the world when we have completed the things He has for us. When God looks at the fetus He sees His creation and knows the plans He has for that individual and unique creation. God Loves that unborn person with all His Heart and it saddens Him to see that precious life be snuffed out before it's time. God is merciful and will accept that child into heaven, but it is still a sin and it breaks His Heart.


Yes, Christians don't kill themselves because they still have a purpose here. But the fetus is not Christian, and there is no guarantee it will become one. And it's very possible it will grow up sinful and go to hell, is that what God would want, would that fulfill the fetus's "purpose"?

And why would God be upset at bringing the baby to heaven? Wouldn't he be more upset when the baby grows up and doesn't become Christian and he has to send it to hell forever? If I was God, I'd want my children to go to heaven and be happy when they do. And I don't understand how everyone has a "purpose", does that mean something they will do in their life, or something they should do but could end up not doing it? Did God have "plans" for every creation, including Hitler or a child in Africa who dies at 8 from starvation?
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Posted 4/26/09 , edited 4/26/09

digs wrote:


Yei wrote:


digs wrote:

But are the abortions preformed on the basis of wanting to send their children to heaven? I highly doubt that any to date have had that motive, it is a tool used by Christians to try and rationalize why abortion is acceptable. The infants sacrificed to Molech were still considered to be murdered, and although those children went to heaven, it was not apart of God's purpose that they be sacrificed to an idol. God wants us to choose Him on our own and embrace the life that He has created us for. We are essentially depriving the child of the life that God created for it to live. In a way we are playing God by committing murder, because He is the one who dictates when our last day shall be. The Bible doesn't want us to kill children because it's still murder and it is not apart of what God's Will for that child is. God will accept that child into heaven, but it wasn't His purpose or Will that the child be murdered.


But it is in the child's best interests, right? It doesn't matter why it's aborted, the abortion is a good thing for the baby because it's being sent straight to heaven. Right? It's not part of God's will or purpose, but it still happens, and it's still a positive thing for that child.


What would be in the child's best interest is to allow it to live for Christ and serve God the years it is supposed to be on the earth for, rather than end it's life and send it straight to heaven. The abortion is not a positive thing for the child, that child is an intimately woven piece of creation and God has a plan in store for every human being (although it is up to us to embrace Him and be obedient to that plan). Sure the child goes to heaven, but that is because it was murdered. Technically under the same logic wouldn't killing off all Christians be in our best interest because we are being sent to heaven? No, we all have a purpose on this earth and God is the one who will take us out of the world when we have completed the things He has for us. When God looks at the fetus He sees His creation and knows the plans He has for that individual and unique creation. God Loves that unborn person with all His Heart and it saddens Him to see that precious life be snuffed out before it's time. God is merciful and will accept that child into heaven, but it is still a sin and it breaks His Heart.


You know, abortion is legal now, and is going to stay legal, and you and your retarded kind are just going to have to deal with it, There is nothing you can do about it, and besides even if someone as insignificant as you could do something about it, people would just get backroom abortions, so even if you can do something about it, you still loose. So you loose either way. Thus there is nothing you can do about it. Deal with it.
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Posted 4/26/09

Allhailodin wrote:

You know, abortion is legal now, and is going to stay legal, and you and your retarded kind are just going to have to deal with it, There is nothing you can do about it, and besides even if someone as insignificant as you could do something about it, people would just get backroom abortions, so even if you can do something about it, you still loose. So you loose either way. Thus there is nothing you can do about it. Deal with it.


whoa, calm down. That was pretty rude Allhailodin, even for you.
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Posted 4/26/09 , edited 4/26/09

Yei wrote:


Allhailodin wrote:

You know, abortion is legal now, and is going to stay legal, and you and your retarded kind are just going to have to deal with it, There is nothing you can do about it, and besides even if someone as insignificant as you could do something about it, people would just get backroom abortions, so even if you can do something about it, you still loose. So you loose either way. Thus there is nothing you can do about it. Deal with it.


whoa, calm down. That was pretty rude Allhailodin, even for you.


Well, for his kind, things don't really sink in too well, gotta repeat yourself alot, you know cause there all mindless fucks, so i figured if he doesn't get it if i say it like that, he'll never understand that he's fighting a hopeless battle. No point in trying to convince him if he's incapable of understanding what your trying to tell him right ? Simple enough.
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Posted 4/26/09

Allhailodin wrote:


Yei wrote:


Allhailodin wrote:

You know, abortion is legal now, and is going to stay legal, and you and your retarded kind are just going to have to deal with it, There is nothing you can do about it, and besides even if someone as insignificant as you could do something about it, people would just get backroom abortions, so even if you can do something about it, you still loose. So you loose either way. Thus there is nothing you can do about it. Deal with it.


whoa, calm down. That was pretty rude Allhailodin, even for you.


Well, for his kind, things don't really sink in too well, gotta repeat yourself alot, you know cause there all mindless fucks, so i figured if he doesn't get it if i say it like that, he'll never understand that he's fighting a hopeless battle. No point in trying to convince him if he's incapable of understanding what your trying to tell him right ?


What do you mean "his kind"? Seriously, you need to try to understand that there are moral people in the world who will always stand up for what they believe is right, it doesn't matter if it's hopeless or not, what is right still has to be fought for. You shouldn't be so pissed off about people having morality.
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Posted 4/26/09

Yei wrote:


digs wrote:

What would be in the child's best interest is to allow it to live for Christ and serve God the years it is supposed to be on the earth for, rather than end it's life and send it straight to heaven. The abortion is not a positive thing for the child, that child is an intimately woven piece of creation and God has a plan in store for every human being (although it is up to us to embrace Him and be obedient to that plan). Sure the child goes to heaven, but that is because it was murdered. Technically under the same logic wouldn't killing off all Christians be in our best interest because we are being sent to heaven? No, we all have a purpose on this earth and God is the one who will take us out of the world when we have completed the things He has for us. When God looks at the fetus He sees His creation and knows the plans He has for that individual and unique creation. God Loves that unborn person with all His Heart and it saddens Him to see that precious life be snuffed out before it's time. God is merciful and will accept that child into heaven, but it is still a sin and it breaks His Heart.


Yes, Christians don't kill themselves because they still have a purpose here. But the fetus is not Christian, and there is no guarantee it will become one. And it's very possible it will grow up sinful and go to hell, is that what God would want, would that fulfill the fetus's "purpose"?

And why would God be upset at bringing the baby to heaven? Wouldn't he be more upset when the baby grows up and doesn't become Christian and he has to send it to hell forever? If I was God, I'd want my children to go to heaven and be happy when they do. And I don't understand how everyone has a "purpose", does that mean something they will do in their life, or something they should do but could end up not doing it? Did God have "plans" for every creation, including Hitler or a child in Africa who dies at 8 from starvation?


I don't think you are understanding what I am trying to say (I say that as respectfully as I can). There is no guarantee that it will grow up and become born again, but that is up to the individuals free will. It isn't God's Purpose that the child live a sinful life and go to hell when it dies, it is God's purpose that the child embrace the gifts God has created within him/her and live for Christ on it's own will and out of love for God.

And I'm not saying that God is sad about bringing the child into heaven, He is heart broken over the act of abortion and murder. It breaks His heart to know that His precious creation has been disrespected and murdered without having the chance to embrace the life that God has created for that unique individual. God welcomes the child into heaven with Loving Arms, but it saddens Him to see the sin of abortion taking place and terminating a wonderful future that God has planned for that person if they simply follow Him.

And I'm not sure if we can define someone's specific purpose. For some people it is to be a father/mother and work as a doctor. For others it is to serve in the church. Regardless of what occupation you are in, if you live as a Christian obedient to God then you know your occupation is where God wants you to be for reasons that He will reveal to you, whether it be helping others or being a witness for Christ. Regardless, there are many universal purposes for Christians, and they are the basics of what Jesus taught (love others, help the poor, be giving to all people, etc...) Here is a specific verse that I learned about in church today.
1Pe 4:8 Above all, love each other deeply, because love covers over a multitude of sins.
1Pe 4:9 Offer hospitality to one another without grumbling.
1Pe 4:10 Each one should use whatever gift he has received to serve others, faithfully administering God's grace in its various forms.
1Pe 4:11 If anyone speaks, he should do it as one speaking the very words of God. If anyone serves, he should do it with the strength God provides, so that in all things God may be praised through Jesus Christ. To him be the glory and the power for ever and ever. Amen.


This is kinda what one of the basic purposes of being a Christian is in a nutshell. For me, my specific purpose in life is to be a servant to my best friend. My best friends purpose is to be a youth minister in church, and I am called to be his servant and helper. God has given both of us gifts and qualities that are for our specific purposes, and God will use both of us in powerful ways for Him if we let Him use us. Purpose is essentially what we live for, we are to be beings of worship and love, serving others and living for God.
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Posted 4/26/09

digs wrote:

I don't think you are understanding what I am trying to say (I say that as respectfully as I can). There is no guarantee that it will grow up and become born again, but that is up to the individuals free will. It isn't God's Purpose that the child live a sinful life and go to hell when it dies, it is God's purpose that the child embrace the gifts God has created within him/her and live for Christ on it's own will and out of love for God.

And I'm not saying that God is sad about bringing the child into heaven, He is heart broken over the act of abortion and murder. It breaks His heart to know that His precious creation has been disrespected and murdered without having the chance to embrace the life that God has created for that unique individual. God welcomes the child into heaven with Loving Arms, but it saddens Him to see the sin of abortion taking place and terminating a wonderful future that God has planned for that person if they simply follow Him.

And I'm not sure if we can define someone's specific purpose. For some people it is to be a father/mother and work as a doctor. For others it is to serve in the church. Regardless of what occupation you are in, if you live as a Christian obedient to God then you know your occupation is where God wants you to be for reasons that He will reveal to you, whether it be helping others or being a witness for Christ. Regardless, there are many universal purposes for Christians, and they are the basics of what Jesus taught (love others, help the poor, be giving to all people, etc...) Here is a specific verse that I learned about in church today.
1Pe 4:8 Above all, love each other deeply, because love covers over a multitude of sins.
1Pe 4:9 Offer hospitality to one another without grumbling.
1Pe 4:10 Each one should use whatever gift he has received to serve others, faithfully administering God's grace in its various forms.
1Pe 4:11 If anyone speaks, he should do it as one speaking the very words of God. If anyone serves, he should do it with the strength God provides, so that in all things God may be praised through Jesus Christ. To him be the glory and the power for ever and ever. Amen.


This is kinda what one of the basic purposes of being a Christian is in a nutshell. For me, my specific purpose in life is to be a servant to my best friend. My best friends purpose is to be a youth minister in church, and I am called to be his servant and helper. God has given both of us gifts and qualities that are for our specific purposes, and God will use both of us in powerful ways for Him if we let Him use us. Purpose is essentially what we live for, we are to be beings of worship and love, serving others and living for God.


Okay. So God doesn't necessarily just want us all to go to heaven, he wants us to go through life and earn it on our own.

So God would rather let the baby live life and possibly send it to hell if it's bad than it being aborted and automatically going to heaven. I see, God wants more than anything for us to live full lives and find the right way on our own. But if I was Christian, personally, I would rather have died as a baby than go through this life. It would make things alot easier for me cause this world is depressing...
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