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Posted 5/26/09

crunchypibb wrote:


SeraphAlford wrote:

The Catholics believe that between death and heaven there is a place of temporary chastisement for Christians. It is called purgatory, and in purgatory Christians will be punished according to their sin. This is not a popular view outside of Catholicism, but it is one possible answer to some of your questions. Personally, I don’t believe this.



-Regarding Purgatory, that's kinda false.
-We sin on earth but our sins are paid for, the afterlife consequences that is, by Jesus when we confess and offer them up to him. Heaven is a place for the sinless, so it's usually near impossible to go there straight from earth. That's what purgatory is for. There are some evidences in the bible where it seems to be descibing hell, but rather it turns out to be purgatory. Because our God is a loving God purgatory is a place to finish paying or confessing for our sins so we don't go to hell. It's not a pretty place but from what I've heard it's not a place of punishment, it burns but it's not a place for damnation like hell is. But as soon as all the sins are forgiven, those people go straight to heaven.
-When Jesus paid for our sins that didn't mean the world would stop sinning, it meant the world had a chance to erase those sins from their records. It's like when the police scrap your criminal records, that's how it works. And on the subject the people on earth who have the power to fogive those sins, to erase the records so to say, are those who have passed down the Holy Spirit. That is popes, bishops, cardinals, priest, and etc. The only people who recieved such powers were those in the Upper Room who recieved the Holy Spirit. They are who we get those powers from. So a local pastor from any other denomination, or no denomination, sadly can't do it the way they intend to do so unless they had apostolic succession like the Catholics or Eastern Othodox.


Actually, the pope said there is no purgatory, so every christian (catholic) who believes in purgatory is, by the popes law, wrong. it is one of those statements that only pope can issue and they become the law for everybody, I forgot how they call those. As of 2004 or 2005 (forgot when), there is only heaven and hell (for catholic christians. I dont know and dont care about all those other sects that thrive outside good old Europe).
Yei
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According to Christianity, what do you have to do to get to heaven, or be saved? Do you have to turn Christian and accept Jesus as your lord and believe all the stories, or just be a good person?

And I recently watched this disturbing documentary called Jesus Camp about Evangelical Christians (I think it's on youtube), and I was wondering what you think of it. (if you've watched it)
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Posted 5/26/09

Yei wrote:

According to Christianity, what do you have to do to get to heaven, or be saved? Do you have to turn Christian and accept Jesus as your lord and believe all the stories, or just be a good person?

And I recently watched this disturbing documentary called Jesus Camp about Evangelical Christians (I think it's on youtube), and I was wondering what you think of it. (if you've watched it)


According to digs, you have to accept jesus and get rid of things like logic, thinking for yourself, indivudality, and all that, then you have to repent, and thats pretty much it, although i love how you can repent an unlimited number of times, so in other words, you can sin as much as you want, but its perfectly fine as long as you repent afterwards. Kinda a major loophole don't you think ?


But think about this logically for a second, wheres the logic in heaven and hell ? How much sense does going to heaven or hell when you die really make ?
Yei
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Posted 5/26/09 , edited 5/26/09

Allhailodin wrote:


Yei wrote:

According to Christianity, what do you have to do to get to heaven, or be saved? Do you have to turn Christian and accept Jesus as your lord and believe all the stories, or just be a good person?

And I recently watched this disturbing documentary called Jesus Camp about Evangelical Christians (I think it's on youtube), and I was wondering what you think of it. (if you've watched it)


According to digs, you have to accept jesus and get rid of things like logic, thinking for yourself, indivudality, and all that, then you have to repent, and thats pretty much it, although i love how you can repent an unlimited number of times, so in other words, you can sin as much as you want, but its perfectly fine as long as you repent afterwards. Kinda a major loophole don't you think ?


So anyone who doesn't follow Christianity goes to hell? That can't be right, I'm sure the more rational Christians (and Muslims) don't believe that. And yeah, the repenting thing is messed up, I watched a documentary about a priest in the Catholic Church who raped and molested hundreds of children, including babies as young as 9-months, and in the movie he confesses everything openly and then he's forgiven just like that.


But think about this logically for a second, wheres the logic in heaven and hell ? How much sense does going to heaven or hell when you die really make ?


It doesn't make much sense and sounds obviously made up, but it's a nice idea. I guess people want to believe it because the world would be much too depressing if we didn't think there would eventually be perfect justice, and there's nothing wrong with that IMO.

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Posted 5/26/09

Yei wrote:

So anyone who doesn't follow Christianity goes to hell? That can't be right, I'm sure the more rational Christians (and Muslims) don't believe that. And yeah, the repenting thing is messed up, I watched a documentary about a priest in the Catholic Church who raped and molested hundreds of children, including babies as young as 9-months, and in the movie he confesses everything openly and then he's forgiven just like that.


Yeap, and then he can do it again and again, repent aand be forgiven as many times as he wants rofl. If I tried that however I'd go straight to hell lol. You know any god that can forgive a priest (a holy person who repersents god) that molested little kids just like that, is either an idiot or far too soft, any reasonable god would smite those people who screw up his/hers/it's image.


It doesn't make much sense and sounds obviously made up, but it's a nice idea. I guess people want to believe it because the world would be much too depressing if we didn't think there would eventually be perfect justice, and there's nothing wrong with that IMO.


Well if heaven truly did exist, and lets say it is truly perfect as the christains say it is, it would be utterly boring. If nothing ever goes wrong, nothing interesting ever happens, and thus it'd be utterly boring, if i was stuck in such a place, I'd hate it. Conflicts, fights, disagreements, and all that stuff make this world interesting and fun, you take that away, and it'd be utterly boring all the time. Perfection would suck.
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Posted 5/26/09

Allhailodin wrote:


Yei wrote:

So anyone who doesn't follow Christianity goes to hell? That can't be right, I'm sure the more rational Christians (and Muslims) don't believe that. And yeah, the repenting thing is messed up, I watched a documentary about a priest in the Catholic Church who raped and molested hundreds of children, including babies as young as 9-months, and in the movie he confesses everything openly and then he's forgiven just like that.


Yeap, and then he can do it again and again, repent aand be forgiven as many times as he wants rofl. If I tried that however I'd go straight to hell lol. You know any god that can forgive a priest (a holy person who repersents god) that molested little kids just like that, is either an idiot or far too soft, any reasonable god would smite those people who screw up his/hers/it's image.


It doesn't make much sense and sounds obviously made up, but it's a nice idea. I guess people want to believe it because the world would be much too depressing if we didn't think there would eventually be perfect justice, and there's nothing wrong with that IMO.


Well if heaven truly did exist, and lets say it is truly perfect as the christains say it is, it would be utterly boring. If nothing ever goes wrong, nothing interesting ever happens, and thus it'd be utterly boring, if i was stuck in such a place, I'd hate it. Conflicts, fights, disagreements, and all that stuff make this world interesting and fun, you take that away, and it'd be utterly boring all the time. Perfection would suck.


Well I am not a Christian but if one repeats a sin over and over and repents but doesnt learn from his mistake then I dont think that sin will go away. I cant just go kill a man pray for forgiveness and do the same, no it doesnt work that way. I think this is what digs is saying and there are times where people have to sin, only through sins will we truely learn from our mistakes. Your right in your last paragraph if this world was just goody goody it would be boring and there would be no point in life. Through bad times is when human beings rise and come out strong. We come together, form new ideas in order to stop whatever horrible times we are going through. Heroes also emerge from this as well. As far as heaven and hell shit I rather live in a perfect world then repeatedly get burn by fire.
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Posted 5/26/09

drizza wrote:

Well I am not a Christian but if one repeats a sin over and over and repents but doesnt learn from his mistake then I dont think that sin will go away. I cant just go kill a man pray for forgiveness and do the same, no it doesnt work that way. I think this is what digs is saying and there are times where people have to sin, only through sins will we truely learn from our mistakes. Your right in your last paragraph if this world was just goody goody it would be boring and there would be no point in life. Through bad times is when human beings rise and come out strong. We come together, form new ideas in order to stop whatever horrible times we are going through. Heroes also emerge from this as well. As far as heaven and hell shit I rather live in a perfect world then repeatedly get burn by fire.


But the priest didn't molest anyone after his confession (I hope), so is he forgiven?
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Posted 5/26/09

Yei wrote:


drizza wrote:

Well I am not a Christian but if one repeats a sin over and over and repents but doesnt learn from his mistake then I dont think that sin will go away. I cant just go kill a man pray for forgiveness and do the same, no it doesnt work that way. I think this is what digs is saying and there are times where people have to sin, only through sins will we truely learn from our mistakes. Your right in your last paragraph if this world was just goody goody it would be boring and there would be no point in life. Through bad times is when human beings rise and come out strong. We come together, form new ideas in order to stop whatever horrible times we are going through. Heroes also emerge from this as well. As far as heaven and hell shit I rather live in a perfect world then repeatedly get burn by fire.


But the priest didn't molest anyone after his confession (I hope), so is he forgiven?


I believe after he receives his punishment, truly learned what he done was wrong and makes an effort not to do it again and make sure others dont do the same well lets just leave that to God he is full of forgiveness. Since I am not God I cannot answer that question but I want to say is yes though. Look at pepole how Malcom X was started of as a street thug did drugs and everything, repented never pursue this path and now he became a great leader. Perfect example how bad things in this world can make a man stronger.
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Posted 5/26/09 , edited 5/26/09

Yei wrote:


drizza wrote:

Well I am not a Christian but if one repeats a sin over and over and repents but doesnt learn from his mistake then I dont think that sin will go away. I cant just go kill a man pray for forgiveness and do the same, no it doesnt work that way. I think this is what digs is saying and there are times where people have to sin, only through sins will we truely learn from our mistakes. Your right in your last paragraph if this world was just goody goody it would be boring and there would be no point in life. Through bad times is when human beings rise and come out strong. We come together, form new ideas in order to stop whatever horrible times we are going through. Heroes also emerge from this as well. As far as heaven and hell shit I rather live in a perfect world then repeatedly get burn by fire.


But the priest didn't molest anyone after his confession (I hope), so is he forgiven?


I guess it comes down to if he truly repented for what he did. If he just said "oh yeah im sorry it wont happen again, blah blah blah" but didnt mean any of it, then i'd assume he's not forgiven, but if he truly meant it then i'd assume he'd be forgiven for it ? Throw something like that in there and that loophole of being able to sin as much as you want disapears. But from what i've heard he's not the only priest to do something like that.
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Posted 5/26/09

blancer wrote:


crunchypibb wrote:


SeraphAlford wrote:

The Catholics believe that between death and heaven there is a place of temporary chastisement for Christians. It is called purgatory, and in purgatory Christians will be punished according to their sin. This is not a popular view outside of Catholicism, but it is one possible answer to some of your questions. Personally, I don’t believe this.



-Regarding Purgatory, that's kinda false.
-We sin on earth but our sins are paid for, the afterlife consequences that is, by Jesus when we confess and offer them up to him. Heaven is a place for the sinless, so it's usually near impossible to go there straight from earth. That's what purgatory is for. There are some evidences in the bible where it seems to be descibing hell, but rather it turns out to be purgatory. Because our God is a loving God purgatory is a place to finish paying or confessing for our sins so we don't go to hell. It's not a pretty place but from what I've heard it's not a place of punishment, it burns but it's not a place for damnation like hell is. But as soon as all the sins are forgiven, those people go straight to heaven.
-When Jesus paid for our sins that didn't mean the world would stop sinning, it meant the world had a chance to erase those sins from their records. It's like when the police scrap your criminal records, that's how it works. And on the subject the people on earth who have the power to fogive those sins, to erase the records so to say, are those who have passed down the Holy Spirit. That is popes, bishops, cardinals, priest, and etc. The only people who recieved such powers were those in the Upper Room who recieved the Holy Spirit. They are who we get those powers from. So a local pastor from any other denomination, or no denomination, sadly can't do it the way they intend to do so unless they had apostolic succession like the Catholics or Eastern Othodox.


Actually, the pope said there is no purgatory, so every christian (catholic) who believes in purgatory is, by the popes law, wrong. it is one of those statements that only pope can issue and they become the law for everybody, I forgot how they call those. As of 2004 or 2005 (forgot when), there is only heaven and hell (for catholic christians. I dont know and dont care about all those other sects that thrive outside good old Europe).


-It's called a dogma and it can't be re-amended. Although not everything that comes from the catholic church is a dogma (like holding hands during the Our Father, I remember there was a weird dispute about that before), but I'm pretty sure that the evidence of purgatory is true. Think about it, only the sinless can enter heaven, since it's a place with no sin, and just about everyone who dies has a little sin in them. Therefore they would go to hell regardless of their love for God. But God is merciful therefore it wouldn't make sense. But I'd be happy to see where you saw that.
-Btw, don't believe everything everyone says, and I'm not just saying that about the internet. i mean everything. There's even an arguement made by a Greek philosopher (too lazy to look up and to dumb to remember exactly who it was between Plato, Socrates, and Aristotle) who can make justice, or law-abbiding citizens, look whimpy and injustice people look admirable.

btw
Link to where you saw that pl0z
k thanx
Yei
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Posted 5/26/09

drizza wrote:


Yei wrote:


drizza wrote:

Well I am not a Christian but if one repeats a sin over and over and repents but doesnt learn from his mistake then I dont think that sin will go away. I cant just go kill a man pray for forgiveness and do the same, no it doesnt work that way. I think this is what digs is saying and there are times where people have to sin, only through sins will we truely learn from our mistakes. Your right in your last paragraph if this world was just goody goody it would be boring and there would be no point in life. Through bad times is when human beings rise and come out strong. We come together, form new ideas in order to stop whatever horrible times we are going through. Heroes also emerge from this as well. As far as heaven and hell shit I rather live in a perfect world then repeatedly get burn by fire.


But the priest didn't molest anyone after his confession (I hope), so is he forgiven?


I believe after he receives his punishment, truly learned what he done was wrong and makes an effort not to do it again and make sure others dont do the same well lets just leave that to God he is full of forgiveness. Since I am not God I cannot answer that question but I want to say is yes though. Look at pepole how Malcom X was started of as a street thug did drugs and everything, repented never pursue this path and now he became a great leader. Perfect example how bad things in this world can make a man stronger.


He went to jail for 7 years, so he's done the legal punishment. Now he seems like he's sorry for what he did and probably won't do it again, so I guess he would be forgiven. Even though he raped and molested hundreds of children, boys and girls, even babies, and destroyed their lives and their family's lives. He used the trust they had in God and the Church to get to their children. Being forgiven so easily after all that seems unjust. Would Hitler be forgiven if he truly repented?
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Posted 5/26/09

drizza wrote:


Allhailodin wrote:


Yei wrote:

So anyone who doesn't follow Christianity goes to hell? That can't be right, I'm sure the more rational Christians (and Muslims) don't believe that. And yeah, the repenting thing is messed up, I watched a documentary about a priest in the Catholic Church who raped and molested hundreds of children, including babies as young as 9-months, and in the movie he confesses everything openly and then he's forgiven just like that.


Yeap, and then he can do it again and again, repent aand be forgiven as many times as he wants rofl. If I tried that however I'd go straight to hell lol. You know any god that can forgive a priest (a holy person who repersents god) that molested little kids just like that, is either an idiot or far too soft, any reasonable god would smite those people who screw up his/hers/it's image.


It doesn't make much sense and sounds obviously made up, but it's a nice idea. I guess people want to believe it because the world would be much too depressing if we didn't think there would eventually be perfect justice, and there's nothing wrong with that IMO.


Well if heaven truly did exist, and lets say it is truly perfect as the christains say it is, it would be utterly boring. If nothing ever goes wrong, nothing interesting ever happens, and thus it'd be utterly boring, if i was stuck in such a place, I'd hate it. Conflicts, fights, disagreements, and all that stuff make this world interesting and fun, you take that away, and it'd be utterly boring all the time. Perfection would suck.


Well I am not a Christian but if one repeats a sin over and over and repents but doesnt learn from his mistake then I dont think that sin will go away. I cant just go kill a man pray for forgiveness and do the same, no it doesnt work that way. I think this is what digs is saying and there are times where people have to sin, only through sins will we truely learn from our mistakes. Your right in your last paragraph if this world was just goody goody it would be boring and there would be no point in life. Through bad times is when human beings rise and come out strong. We come together, form new ideas in order to stop whatever horrible times we are going through. Heroes also emerge from this as well. As far as heaven and hell shit I rather live in a perfect world then repeatedly get burn by fire.


Yeah, but being repeatedly burnt by fire isn't eternal boredom, hell after a while you'd get used to the sensation of being burnt by fire, and it'd stop bothering you completely. Being burnt by fire for a while would be more entertaining then suffering eternal boredom. But i guess after the fire stops bothering you, you'd suffer eternal boredom anyway, so looks like heaven or hell you suffer eternal boredom.
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Posted 5/26/09

Allhailodin wrote:


Yei wrote:


drizza wrote:

Well I am not a Christian but if one repeats a sin over and over and repents but doesnt learn from his mistake then I dont think that sin will go away. I cant just go kill a man pray for forgiveness and do the same, no it doesnt work that way. I think this is what digs is saying and there are times where people have to sin, only through sins will we truely learn from our mistakes. Your right in your last paragraph if this world was just goody goody it would be boring and there would be no point in life. Through bad times is when human beings rise and come out strong. We come together, form new ideas in order to stop whatever horrible times we are going through. Heroes also emerge from this as well. As far as heaven and hell shit I rather live in a perfect world then repeatedly get burn by fire.


But the priest didn't molest anyone after his confession (I hope), so is he forgiven?


I guess it comes down to if he truly repented for what he did. If he just said "oh yeah im sorry it wont happen again, blah blah blah" but didnt mean any of it, then i'd assume he's not forgiven, but if he truly meant it then i'd assume he'd be forgiven for it ? Throw something like that in there and that loophole of being able to sin as much as you want disapears. But from what i've heard he's not the only priest to do something like that.


Yeah, 10% of the priests at the Catholic Church do that. I just watched a documentary about it, the Catholic Church spends billions protecting all their pedophiles and lets them do whatever they want.
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Posted 5/26/09

Allhailodin wrote:


drizza wrote:


Allhailodin wrote:


Yei wrote:

So anyone who doesn't follow Christianity goes to hell? That can't be right, I'm sure the more rational Christians (and Muslims) don't believe that. And yeah, the repenting thing is messed up, I watched a documentary about a priest in the Catholic Church who raped and molested hundreds of children, including babies as young as 9-months, and in the movie he confesses everything openly and then he's forgiven just like that.


Yeap, and then he can do it again and again, repent aand be forgiven as many times as he wants rofl. If I tried that however I'd go straight to hell lol. You know any god that can forgive a priest (a holy person who repersents god) that molested little kids just like that, is either an idiot or far too soft, any reasonable god would smite those people who screw up his/hers/it's image.


It doesn't make much sense and sounds obviously made up, but it's a nice idea. I guess people want to believe it because the world would be much too depressing if we didn't think there would eventually be perfect justice, and there's nothing wrong with that IMO.


Well if heaven truly did exist, and lets say it is truly perfect as the christains say it is, it would be utterly boring. If nothing ever goes wrong, nothing interesting ever happens, and thus it'd be utterly boring, if i was stuck in such a place, I'd hate it. Conflicts, fights, disagreements, and all that stuff make this world interesting and fun, you take that away, and it'd be utterly boring all the time. Perfection would suck.


Well I am not a Christian but if one repeats a sin over and over and repents but doesnt learn from his mistake then I dont think that sin will go away. I cant just go kill a man pray for forgiveness and do the same, no it doesnt work that way. I think this is what digs is saying and there are times where people have to sin, only through sins will we truely learn from our mistakes. Your right in your last paragraph if this world was just goody goody it would be boring and there would be no point in life. Through bad times is when human beings rise and come out strong. We come together, form new ideas in order to stop whatever horrible times we are going through. Heroes also emerge from this as well. As far as heaven and hell shit I rather live in a perfect world then repeatedly get burn by fire.


Yeah, but being repeatedly burnt by fire isn't eternal boredom, hell after a while you'd get used to the sensation of being burnt by fire, and it'd stop bothering you completely. Being burnt by fire for a while would be more entertaining then suffering eternal boredom. But i guess after the fire stops bothering you, you'd suffer eternal boredom anyway, so looks like heaven or hell you suffer eternal boredom.


I dont think there is any pain so extreme and bearable you get use to it. Look at torture you think if they got use to it they wouldnt mind it anymore? In hell it is said as you burn your skin regrows and you get burned again and again. Like I said I rather live in heaven where is peacefull rather then in hell or believe there is nothingness. I dont really care if people dont believe in heaven/hell thats their opinion and I am not the person who shoves religion down anyones throat.
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Posted 5/26/09

Yei wrote:


Allhailodin wrote:


Yei wrote:


drizza wrote:

Well I am not a Christian but if one repeats a sin over and over and repents but doesnt learn from his mistake then I dont think that sin will go away. I cant just go kill a man pray for forgiveness and do the same, no it doesnt work that way. I think this is what digs is saying and there are times where people have to sin, only through sins will we truely learn from our mistakes. Your right in your last paragraph if this world was just goody goody it would be boring and there would be no point in life. Through bad times is when human beings rise and come out strong. We come together, form new ideas in order to stop whatever horrible times we are going through. Heroes also emerge from this as well. As far as heaven and hell shit I rather live in a perfect world then repeatedly get burn by fire.


But the priest didn't molest anyone after his confession (I hope), so is he forgiven?


I guess it comes down to if he truly repented for what he did. If he just said "oh yeah im sorry it wont happen again, blah blah blah" but didnt mean any of it, then i'd assume he's not forgiven, but if he truly meant it then i'd assume he'd be forgiven for it ? Throw something like that in there and that loophole of being able to sin as much as you want disapears. But from what i've heard he's not the only priest to do something like that.


Yeah, 10% of the priests at the Catholic Church do that. I just watched a documentary about it, the Catholic Church spends billions protecting all their pedophiles and lets them do whatever they want.


Well thats a small percentage and I believe God knows their true intention and they will be punished. Many people abuse religion for political gains or greed these people are sinners and if your smart you will see right through their foolish ploy.
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