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The Wars of Israel
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This thread is a historical document that describes Israel’s five major wars. Since there are already several threads dedicated specifically to the Gaza invasion immediately available for users of the crunchy roll forum I chose not to include that one. However, this thread provides a place to discuss the history, politics, movements, and information surrounding the other major conflicts between Israel and her Arab neighbors. There seems to be a lot of interest: digs, drizza myself and several others in particular seem active in such threads; therefore, I figured it’d be apropos to post this information and allow the discussion thereof.

Israeli War for Independence:
Date: May 15, 1948-July 20, 1949




Sinai Campaign:
Date: October 29 – November 7, 1956


Six-Day War:
Date: June 5-10, 1967
Troop Movement: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYHJFbh2Sls (Al Jazeera, English.)


Yom Kippur War
Date: October 6-24, 1973.


Invasion of Lebanon:
Date: June 6, 1982-June 10, 1985.





Posted 5/18/09
very informative Alford thanks for the good read
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Posted 5/18/09 , edited 5/18/09
It seems that Israel & Palestine related topics are hot in CR... ^_^

In my opinion, this Israel/Palestine war is the most bloodiest i ever seen which 100 000+ people from both sides killed.

Surprisingly, the reason why people are more interested in the Israel/Palestine affairs its because of "sides", get to this; Israel is strongly support by a superpower USA and some European countries while Palestine is strongly support by Muslim countries as far as east e.g Iran, Malaysia, Indonesia. Its a clash between West and East and that sign its not good for us. We need to improve ties between Muslims, Christians and Jews and try to understand their culture and the religious beliefs, understands the importance of whats wrong and whats right. I think that way we can achieve peace or else we are stuck in this doom earth of 100 years of war and terror.
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Right now I am just interested to see what kind of change Obama will bring to the middle east which I doubt he will do any of it. The main thing as Americans we should all be getting sick and tired of these middle east wars and our country always playing a big role of it. We need to make peace by negotiations rather then Shoot first and asking questions later. This Israel/Palestine conflict is causing hate for our country in the middle east because we are looking like hypocrites and a police state. Many times I have heard America is the only solution for the Israel/Palestine situation but yet we always take the same approach always. Support Israel in all her actions and ignore Palestine. You know I really wouldnt mind if we had a Non Pro Pal or Non Pro Israel approach just something neutral to satisfy both. No weapons and money givin the Palestine or Israel unless it is to rebuild their structure that our weapons destroyed. I mean we tried the same one sided support for 60 years yet this bloodshed has not stopped. Crippling economy but yet full speed ahead with giving Israel more aid.

This support is hurting our first amendment as well. Why is it that we can freely criticize any country in the world except Israel? Why are we even about to crimilize people for doing so? Abe Foxman the fat ass leader of ADL all he does is sit on his fat ass and look for peoples career to destroy. Wow what amazing job is that to act like a fucking cry baby when someone says anything about Israel and ruin his life. Excuse Abe but Jews arent the only fucking people who has suffered in this world. Therefore why do you feel the need to be exempt from everything? Why is it that we can freely criticize every religion but yours? We all know the holocaust was true and the huge amount of proof that supports it so why do you feel the need to beat up looneys about it so badly? If ADL and all these other zionist organizations bent on just covering up any type of criticizsm and support for Israel and jews then the same standard for any other religion otherwise it just looks like bullshit. I mean why is this the only ideology that goes EXTRA I mean EXTRA to just shut everyone up about Israel and force people to support them or you look like some kind of racist? Nobody else is doing this but these people this is why I can never side with them. When someone has to go these routes to cover up information then they are hiding something from me that they dont want me to hear.

You cant defeat hate nobody can. Your just going to have to deal with it thats a part of life. These people trying to make a world Anti-Semite please lets get real. You think Israels as of today is making anything better especially in the muslim world? Someone can say all the most ignorant bullshit about my religion and I will see him as a dumb ass but I will be damned if I let my country lock him up for expressing his opinions. People are already being locked up for anti-semtism in other countries and America is heading this why. My question is since when did these people become so damn privalege that you arent allowed to say anything bad about them? Arent we all equal under God? Isnt no human above the law? Sorry for my ranting.
Posted 5/18/09

drizza wrote:

Right now I am just interested to see what kind of change Obama will bring to the middle east which I doubt he will do any of it. The main thing as Americans we should all be getting sick and tired of these middle east wars and our country always playing a big role of it. We need to make peace by negotiations rather then Shoot first and asking questions later. This Israel/Palestine conflict is causing hate for our country in the middle east because we are looking like hypocrites and a police state. Many times I have heard America is the only solution for the Israel/Palestine situation but yet we always take the same approach always. Support Israel in all her actions and ignore Palestine. You know I really wouldn't mind if we had a Non Pro Pal or Non Pro Israel approach just something neutral to satisfy both. No weapons and money given the Palestine or Israel unless it is to rebuild their structure that our weapons destroyed. I mean we tried the same one sided support for 60 years yet this bloodshed has not stopped. Crippling economy but yet full speed ahead with giving Israel more aid.

This support is hurting our first amendment as well. Why is it that we can freely criticize any country in the world except Israel? Why are we even about to criminalize people for doing so? Abe Foxman the fat ass leader of ADL all he does is sit on his fat ass and look for peoples career to destroy. Wow what amazing job is that to act like a fucking cry baby when someone says anything about Israel and ruin his life. Excuse Abe but Jews aren't the only fucking people who has suffered in this world. Therefore why do you feel the need to be exempt from everything? Why is it that we can freely criticize every religion but yours? We all know the holocaust was true and the huge amount of proof that supports it so why do you feel the need to beat up looneys about it so badly? If ADL and all these other Zionist organizations bent on just covering up any type of criticism and support for Israel and Jews then the same standard for any other religion otherwise it just looks like bullshit. I mean why is this the only ideology that goes EXTRA I mean EXTRA rather it be the net or anywhere else to just shut everyone up about Israel and force people to support them or you look like some kind of racist? Nobody else is doing this but these people this is why I can never side with them.

You cant defeat hate nobody can. Your just going to have to deal with it thats a part of life. These people trying to make a world Anti-Semite please lets get real. You think Israels as of today is making anything better especially in the muslim world? Someone can say all the most ignorant bullshit about my religion and I will see him as a dumb ass but I will be damned if I let my country lock him up for expressing his opinions. People are already being locked up for anti-semantics in other countries and America is heading this why. My question is since when did these people become so damn privilege that you aren't allowed to say anything bad about them? Arent we all equal under God? Isn't no human above the law? Sorry for my ranting.


Because you all have the wrong the religion lol or says most Americans and i disagree with that 100%, my mom is such a fucking hypocritical bitch all the time telling me to love my fellow man but it's okay to make fun of Muslims because of their religion and say they will go to hell and so on. It just pisses me off to the point that I want to slap her but yeah i can't do that i do feel sorry for the Muslim population but well there is nothing I can do to change anything, I really wish I could though.
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Posted 5/18/09 , edited 5/18/09

CecilTheDarkKnight_234 wrote:


drizza wrote:

Right now I am just interested to see what kind of change Obama will bring to the middle east which I doubt he will do any of it. The main thing as Americans we should all be getting sick and tired of these middle east wars and our country always playing a big role of it. We need to make peace by negotiations rather then Shoot first and asking questions later. This Israel/Palestine conflict is causing hate for our country in the middle east because we are looking like hypocrites and a police state. Many times I have heard America is the only solution for the Israel/Palestine situation but yet we always take the same approach always. Support Israel in all her actions and ignore Palestine. You know I really wouldn't mind if we had a Non Pro Pal or Non Pro Israel approach just something neutral to satisfy both. No weapons and money given the Palestine or Israel unless it is to rebuild their structure that our weapons destroyed. I mean we tried the same one sided support for 60 years yet this bloodshed has not stopped. Crippling economy but yet full speed ahead with giving Israel more aid.

This support is hurting our first amendment as well. Why is it that we can freely criticize any country in the world except Israel? Why are we even about to criminalize people for doing so? Abe Foxman the fat ass leader of ADL all he does is sit on his fat ass and look for peoples career to destroy. Wow what amazing job is that to act like a fucking cry baby when someone says anything about Israel and ruin his life. Excuse Abe but Jews aren't the only fucking people who has suffered in this world. Therefore why do you feel the need to be exempt from everything? Why is it that we can freely criticize every religion but yours? We all know the holocaust was true and the huge amount of proof that supports it so why do you feel the need to beat up looneys about it so badly? If ADL and all these other Zionist organizations bent on just covering up any type of criticism and support for Israel and Jews then the same standard for any other religion otherwise it just looks like bullshit. I mean why is this the only ideology that goes EXTRA I mean EXTRA rather it be the net or anywhere else to just shut everyone up about Israel and force people to support them or you look like some kind of racist? Nobody else is doing this but these people this is why I can never side with them.

You cant defeat hate nobody can. Your just going to have to deal with it thats a part of life. These people trying to make a world Anti-Semite please lets get real. You think Israels as of today is making anything better especially in the muslim world? Someone can say all the most ignorant bullshit about my religion and I will see him as a dumb ass but I will be damned if I let my country lock him up for expressing his opinions. People are already being locked up for anti-semantics in other countries and America is heading this why. My question is since when did these people become so damn privilege that you aren't allowed to say anything bad about them? Arent we all equal under God? Isn't no human above the law? Sorry for my ranting.


Because you all have the wrong the religion lol or says most Americans and i disagree with that 100%, my mom is such a fucking hypocritical bitch all the time telling me to love my fellow man but it's okay to make fun of Muslims because of their religion and say they will go to hell and so on. It just pisses me off to the point that I want to slap her but yeah i can't do that i do feel sorry for the Muslim population but well there is nothing I can do to change anything, I really wish I could though.


Igornorance will always be there and we know that. Nobody in history ever silenced any hatred for a single group people will always hate. Thats just the way this world is but to crimilize them is insane. They are not hurting anyone they are just fucking stupid I hear people talk shit about my religion all the day. Hell it is virtually open in the media especially fox yet this is accepted behavior in our society. There is no punishment for it all either but do the same to a Jew or Israel your racist. Lol what double standard is that and the world can see this especially the muslim world. We want to try to heal relationship but if we think this is the route to go then this goal will never be achieved. It is not just Islam it is Christianity as well who can be openly criticized. My question is how in the world did these small minority of people become above the law in the west?

Edit: I agree with Azera lol dont talk about your mom she bought you in this world taken care of you and now your a healthy young man thanks to her lol. Seriously my comments are not toward your mom either.
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CecilTheDarkKnight_234 wrote:


drizza wrote:

Right now I am just interested to see what kind of change Obama will bring to the middle east which I doubt he will do any of it. The main thing as Americans we should all be getting sick and tired of these middle east wars and our country always playing a big role of it. We need to make peace by negotiations rather then Shoot first and asking questions later. This Israel/Palestine conflict is causing hate for our country in the middle east because we are looking like hypocrites and a police state. Many times I have heard America is the only solution for the Israel/Palestine situation but yet we always take the same approach always. Support Israel in all her actions and ignore Palestine. You know I really wouldn't mind if we had a Non Pro Pal or Non Pro Israel approach just something neutral to satisfy both. No weapons and money given the Palestine or Israel unless it is to rebuild their structure that our weapons destroyed. I mean we tried the same one sided support for 60 years yet this bloodshed has not stopped. Crippling economy but yet full speed ahead with giving Israel more aid.

This support is hurting our first amendment as well. Why is it that we can freely criticize any country in the world except Israel? Why are we even about to criminalize people for doing so? Abe Foxman the fat ass leader of ADL all he does is sit on his fat ass and look for peoples career to destroy. Wow what amazing job is that to act like a fucking cry baby when someone says anything about Israel and ruin his life. Excuse Abe but Jews aren't the only fucking people who has suffered in this world. Therefore why do you feel the need to be exempt from everything? Why is it that we can freely criticize every religion but yours? We all know the holocaust was true and the huge amount of proof that supports it so why do you feel the need to beat up looneys about it so badly? If ADL and all these other Zionist organizations bent on just covering up any type of criticism and support for Israel and Jews then the same standard for any other religion otherwise it just looks like bullshit. I mean why is this the only ideology that goes EXTRA I mean EXTRA rather it be the net or anywhere else to just shut everyone up about Israel and force people to support them or you look like some kind of racist? Nobody else is doing this but these people this is why I can never side with them.

You cant defeat hate nobody can. Your just going to have to deal with it thats a part of life. These people trying to make a world Anti-Semite please lets get real. You think Israels as of today is making anything better especially in the muslim world? Someone can say all the most ignorant bullshit about my religion and I will see him as a dumb ass but I will be damned if I let my country lock him up for expressing his opinions. People are already being locked up for anti-semantics in other countries and America is heading this why. My question is since when did these people become so damn privilege that you aren't allowed to say anything bad about them? Arent we all equal under God? Isn't no human above the law? Sorry for my ranting.


Because you all have the wrong the religion lol or says most Americans and i disagree with that 100%, my mom is such a fucking hypocritical bitch all the time telling me to love my fellow man but it's okay to make fun of Muslims because of their religion and say they will go to hell and so on. It just pisses me off to the point that I want to slap her but yeah i can't do that i do feel sorry for the Muslim population but well there is nothing I can do to change anything, I really wish I could though.


omg did u just criticise hardly to ur mom?
Posted 5/18/09

drizza wrote:


CecilTheDarkKnight_234 wrote:


drizza wrote:

Right now I am just interested to see what kind of change Obama will bring to the middle east which I doubt he will do any of it. The main thing as Americans we should all be getting sick and tired of these middle east wars and our country always playing a big role of it. We need to make peace by negotiations rather then Shoot first and asking questions later. This Israel/Palestine conflict is causing hate for our country in the middle east because we are looking like hypocrites and a police state. Many times I have heard America is the only solution for the Israel/Palestine situation but yet we always take the same approach always. Support Israel in all her actions and ignore Palestine. You know I really wouldn't mind if we had a Non Pro Pal or Non Pro Israel approach just something neutral to satisfy both. No weapons and money given the Palestine or Israel unless it is to rebuild their structure that our weapons destroyed. I mean we tried the same one sided support for 60 years yet this bloodshed has not stopped. Crippling economy but yet full speed ahead with giving Israel more aid.

This support is hurting our first amendment as well. Why is it that we can freely criticize any country in the world except Israel? Why are we even about to criminalize people for doing so? Abe Foxman the fat ass leader of ADL all he does is sit on his fat ass and look for peoples career to destroy. Wow what amazing job is that to act like a fucking cry baby when someone says anything about Israel and ruin his life. Excuse Abe but Jews aren't the only fucking people who has suffered in this world. Therefore why do you feel the need to be exempt from everything? Why is it that we can freely criticize every religion but yours? We all know the holocaust was true and the huge amount of proof that supports it so why do you feel the need to beat up looneys about it so badly? If ADL and all these other Zionist organizations bent on just covering up any type of criticism and support for Israel and Jews then the same standard for any other religion otherwise it just looks like bullshit. I mean why is this the only ideology that goes EXTRA I mean EXTRA rather it be the net or anywhere else to just shut everyone up about Israel and force people to support them or you look like some kind of racist? Nobody else is doing this but these people this is why I can never side with them.

You cant defeat hate nobody can. Your just going to have to deal with it thats a part of life. These people trying to make a world Anti-Semite please lets get real. You think Israels as of today is making anything better especially in the muslim world? Someone can say all the most ignorant bullshit about my religion and I will see him as a dumb ass but I will be damned if I let my country lock him up for expressing his opinions. People are already being locked up for anti-semantics in other countries and America is heading this why. My question is since when did these people become so damn privilege that you aren't allowed to say anything bad about them? Arent we all equal under God? Isn't no human above the law? Sorry for my ranting.


Because you all have the wrong the religion lol or says most Americans and i disagree with that 100%, my mom is such a fucking hypocritical bitch all the time telling me to love my fellow man but it's okay to make fun of Muslims because of their religion and say they will go to hell and so on. It just pisses me off to the point that I want to slap her but yeah i can't do that i do feel sorry for the Muslim population but well there is nothing I can do to change anything, I really wish I could though.


Ignorance will always be there and we know that. Nobody in history ever silenced any hatred for a single group people will always hate. Thats just the way this world is but to criminalize them is insane. They are not hurting anyone they are just fucking stupid I hear people talk shit about my religion all the day. Hell it is virtually open in the media especially fox yet this is accepted behavior in our society. There is no punishment for it all either but do the same to a Jew or Israel your racist. Lol what double standard is that and the world can see this especially the Muslim world. We want to try to heal relationship but if we think this is the route to go then this goal will never be achieved. It is not just Islam it is Christianity as well who can be openly criticized. My question is how in the world did these small minority of people become above the law in the west?


There will always be ignorance in America and that will never change at all,. It is so easy for Americans to go around and blame an entire group of people and label them "evil doers" than it is to get to know them or try to understand what and why it happened. I will be honest I can not watch Fox news at all because it sends me into an flying rage and I have really high blood pressure when I do watch them =.=. I hope that Obama will try to make some peace in the middle east, but i doubt it as well.
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Posted 5/18/09
Also the other reason why it is hard for Americans to ignore this because it is our tax money being used to support Israels onslaught on Palestine. The other reason is the huge influence that small country has on our country.
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Posted 5/18/09 , edited 5/18/09

drizza wrote:
This support is hurting our first amendment as well. Why is it that we can freely criticize any country in the world except Israel? Why are we even about to crimilize people for doing so?



What are you talking about? There are countless books dedicated to doing nothing but criticizing Israel available at public libraries. I can name at least 3-5 off the back of my head right now. Just read something by Jimmy Carter or Paul Findley. That's an American President and an American senator who've both written books criticizing Israel. Well, if that's not enough you can just take a visit to one of the many north American Islamic community websites which all describe Israel's war with Palestine as genocide, and have created a "Palestine Holocaust Memorial Museum,’ that does nothing but slander Israel and show picture of Palestinian casualties of war while pretending there’s no such thing as Jewish casualties." The Secretary of State herself condemned Israel. That's a president, a secretary, and a senator-and there are many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many more. Not to mention the media slandering Israel left and right.
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Posted 5/18/09 , edited 5/18/09

SeraphAlford wrote:


drizza wrote:
This support is hurting our first amendment as well. Why is it that we can freely criticize any country in the world except Israel? Why are we even about to crimilize people for doing so?



What are you talking about? There are countless books dedicated to doing nothing but criticizing Israel available at public libraries. I can name at least 3-5 off the back of my head right now.


Very true I agree there are but most of those people usually look like anti-semities and when interviewed verbally by the media they arent seen in the best of light. Take example Jimmy Carter he is now and anti semtic bigot. What about the Israel lobby John Meshwhatever (cant spell his name) and Stephen Walt they were criticized in the same way. You know I would agree with the ADL if these people actually some deep hatred for jews but for just criticizing policy you shouldnt be called a racist. Yea websites there are too many to for them to just pick them all and dem them anti-semtism but not just Islamic webistes but non Islamic websites criticize Israel. You see on the net there is no control over it thats why me and you can easily have this debate. As far as debates for the public eye nay maybe in Europe but not in America and many politicians spoke of this issue. Even Norman Finkelstine he is now a self hating Jew and gets no interviews at all. Last edit check out recently what happened to Chas Freeman and how AIPAC and their attacked dogs made him resign from Obama appointment.
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Posted 5/18/09 , edited 5/18/09

drizza wrote:

Very true I agree there are but most of those people usually look like anti-semities and when interviewed verbally by the media they arent seen in the best of light. Take example Jimmy Carter he is now and anti semtic bigot. What about the Israel lobby John Meshwhatever (cant spell his name) and Stephen Walt they were criticized in the same way. You know I would agree with the ADL if these people actually some deep hatred for jews but for just criticizing policy you shouldnt be called a racist.



You yourself said in another thread that to support Israel you have to be racist against Arabs and hateful against Islam. How is that in any way different? This “Anti-Semite card,” phrase bothers me too. During his campaign Obama mentioned the struggles he went through as a black politician during a speech and was criticized for “calling the race card,” but really that was just a cheap way to invalidate his totally valid point. It’s the “race card, card.”


In addition, the opposition of Israel has the equivalent of the anti-Semite card, and that’s not only limited to the anti-Semite card, card. They’ve got that “you’re a puppet,” card. Any time I express an opinion or simply state a fact that seems to favor Israel I’m called ignorant and accused of being a Fox News worshiping republican, or better yet-and this is a quote “A typical Zionist Liar,”

This brings me to the next point, Zionism has been so disgustingly demonized that people don’t even realize it’s demonized any more. It’s a bit like Jihad, but while it’s hard to pop into a library and NOT find a book explaining the true nature of Jihad but I’ve yet to see an equivalent for Zionism.


Plus, I don't think I've seen a single fake photo or pollywood video published or aired against Palestine, but I've come across plenty against ISrael. Need we get back into the New York Times, Reuters, CNN, Boston Globe fiasco?

I'm sorry but from what I can see, both sides are doing the exact same thing. It's a fogging propaganda war.

I can't understand how somebody can be so one sidedly bent against either side as you are against Israel.

And by the way, your comment about having to hate Arabs-I can share with you plenty of essays and videos BY Arabs that support Israel. I just can't seem to find a single Muslim that supports Israel. Not to say they're not out there, but it's troubling how united the ummah is in this condemnation and the lack of individuality herein suggests a form of religious bigotry.
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Posted 5/18/09 , edited 5/18/09

SeraphAlford wrote:


drizza wrote:

Very true I agree there are but most of those people usually look like anti-semities and when interviewed verbally by the media they arent seen in the best of light. Take example Jimmy Carter he is now and anti semtic bigot. What about the Israel lobby John Meshwhatever (cant spell his name) and Stephen Walt they were criticized in the same way. You know I would agree with the ADL if these people actually some deep hatred for jews but for just criticizing policy you shouldnt be called a racist.



You yourself said in another thread that to support Israel you have to be racist against Arabs and hateful against Islam. How is that in any way different? This “Anti-Semite card,” phrase bothers me too. During his campaign Obama mentioned the struggles he went through as a black politician during a speech and was criticized for “calling the race card,” but really that was just a cheap way to invalidate his totally valid point. It’s the “race card, card.”


In addition, the opposition of Israel has the equivalent of the anti-Semite card, and that’s not only limited to the anti-Semite card, card. They’ve got that “you’re a puppet,” card. Any time I express an opinion or simply state a fact that seems to favor Israel I’m called ignorant and accused of being a Fox News worshiping republican, or better yet-and this is a quote “A typical Zionist Liar,”

This brings me to the next point, Zionism has been so disgustingly demonized that people don’t even realize it’s demonized any more. It’s a bit like Jihad, but while it’s hard to pop into a library and NOT find a book explaining the true nature of Jihad but I’ve yet to see an equivalent for Zionism.



Nah I meant the majority of people not you or digs but many times on these threads and please tell me if I am wrong you hear a bunch of kill all the arabs, Islam is a terror religion therefore Israel is justified. In order to debate this issue especially for people like me first you have to dismantle the hate first then get to the religion. I dont believe all Israel supporters has some racial hate towards arabs/Islam as I had to explain that to shroom. Usually if I see a muslim come with some type of hatefull attitude I correct him as I have done but there isnt many of that. I know our president loves Israel but he wouldnt want Palestine blown to smitherines as well. Zionism may not have been criticized pubically but it is in books and on the internet because it is political suicide to do so. Zionism is rightfully so deserve all the criticism it gets even Jews criticize it www.jewsagainstzionism.org. Thats a whole different debate to go into detail on that.

Now according to your puppet card yes your right it does get thrown and I have a bad habit throwing it myself because realistically when you watch fox news and how the talk down on the religion and make the middle east look like some rag wearing terrorism then who wouldnt develop a negative view of this area? Usually I try to use that card when I hear most of what I hear repeated on the news come on these threads or some extremist American who believes the best solution is kill them all. Jihad is a different subject as well as that use widely misued by the west as well. But to summarize it you can ask any muslim you know if the Jihad described by the media is the same Jihad taught by Islam and I gaurentee you the answer will be no. Just like the rumor which came about suiciding and getting 80 virgins with no quotes to support that statement as well. All these are used to justify Israels actions. Not to say Hamas is perfect becasue as stated as long as they continue to rain down their terror on civilians they only making life worst for the Palestinians.

To wrap it up we just need to take a neutral approach. Come down hard on both sides. Hamas stop firing rockets on innocent civilians and Israel pull out of settlements and open borders so these people can get some aid. If we cant even do that then this will never end.

As of your edit of course I seen arabs support Israel in fact when I watch the Doha debates which has some pretty good topics regarding Israel you will see some arabs critical of Israel. Does it mean arab media is reporting both sides of the story?
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Posted 5/18/09 , edited 5/18/09

drizza wrote:Nah I meant the majority of people not you or digs but many times on these threads and please tell me if I am wrong you hear a bunch of kill all the arabs, Islam is a terror religion therefore Israel is justified.


Looking at the threads here on CR it seems to me you here a lot more, "ISRAEL GET THE FUCK OUT," and "Fuck Israel!" and "You have to be immoral to support Israel," and "Israeli's are nazi," and "fuck Judaism," and it's like that over on the yahoo-boards too, and if you take a look at the video uploads on the topic over at youtube you'll see it's the same there. So this certainly goes both ways.


Zionism is rightfully so deserve all the criticism it gets even Jews criticize it www.jewsagainstzionism.org. Thats a whole different debate to go into detail on that.


Well of course Jews criticize it. Zionism has been opposed by orthodox Jews since its original creation because it teaches secular nationalism in favor of Jewish governance. Zionism does not deserve to be criticized, it’s just that nobody knows what Zionism really is. It’s been demonized in the same way that Jihad has. The Zionism of the media is certainly evil, but not true Zionism.



Now according to your puppet card yes your right it does get thrown and I have a bad habit throwing it myself because realistically when you watch fox news and how the talk down on the religion and make the middle east look like some rag wearing terrorism then who wouldnt develop a negative view of this area? Usually I try to use that card when I hear most of what I hear repeated on the news come on these threads or some extremist American who believes the best solution is kill them all. Jihad is a different subject as well as that use widely misued by the west as well. But to summarize it you can ask any muslim you know if the Jihad described by the media is the same Jihad taught by Islam and I gaurentee you the answer will be no.


Right, and if you've ever actually read any of the Islamic books you'd know that the Jihad of Islam and the Jihad of the media are two different things. But, if you read the books of the Zionists you'll see that Zionism is not what the media portrays it as.



Just like the rumor which came about suiciding and getting 80 virgins with no quotes to support that statement as well. All these are used to justify Israels actions. Not to say Hamas is perfect becasue as stated as long as they continue to rain down their terror on civilians they only making life worst for the Palestinians.


But the 80 virgins thing has a basis in fact. I've read the entire Qur'an and much of the Hadith and they do talk about the Houri. Dark eyed virgins who do nothing but pleasure the mujihads. It's just an extension of the misunderstanding of what Jihad really is. Zionism is essentially the same thing, except for Jews-if you go back and read the literature, you can see that. Or, just talk to the Zionists.



To wrap it up we just need to take a neutral approach. Come down hard on both sides. Hamas stop firing rockets on innocent civilians and Israel pull out of settlements and open borders so these people can get some aid. If we cant even do that then this will never end.


I'm glad we're starting to agree.

As of your edit of course I seen arabs support Israel in fact when I watch the Doha debates which has some pretty good topics regarding Israel you will see some arabs critical of Israel. Does it mean arab media is reporting both sides of the story?


It means the Arab media gives attention to both sides, but so does Fox News.

What do you THINK Zionism is, exactly?
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Posted 5/18/09 , edited 5/18/09

SeraphAlford wrote:


drizza wrote:Nah I meant the majority of people not you or digs but many times on these threads and please tell me if I am wrong you hear a bunch of kill all the arabs, Islam is a terror religion therefore Israel is justified.


Looking at the threads here on CR it seems to me you here a lot more, "ISRAEL GET THE FUCK OUT," and "Fuck Israel!" and "You have to be immoral to support Israel," and "Israeli's are nazi," and "fuck Judaism," and it's like that over on the yahoo-boards too, and if you take a look at the video uploads on the topic over at youtube you'll see it's the same there. So this certainly goes both ways.


Zionism is rightfully so deserve all the criticism it gets even Jews criticize it www.jewsagainstzionism.org. Thats a whole different debate to go into detail on that.


Well of course Jews criticize it. Zionism has been opposed by orthodox Jews since its original creation because it teaches secular nationalism in favor of Jewish governance. Zionism does not deserve to be criticized, it’s just that nobody knows what Zionism really is. It’s been demonized in the same way that Jihad has. The Zionism of the media is certainly evil, but not true Zionism.



Now according to your puppet card yes your right it does get thrown and I have a bad habit throwing it myself because realistically when you watch fox news and how the talk down on the religion and make the middle east look like some rag wearing terrorism then who wouldnt develop a negative view of this area? Usually I try to use that card when I hear most of what I hear repeated on the news come on these threads or some extremist American who believes the best solution is kill them all. Jihad is a different subject as well as that use widely misued by the west as well. But to summarize it you can ask any muslim you know if the Jihad described by the media is the same Jihad taught by Islam and I gaurentee you the answer will be no.


Right, and if you've ever actually read any of the Islamic books you'd know that the Jihad of Islam and the Jihad of the media are two different things. But, if you read the books of the Zionists you'll see that Zionism is not what the media portrays it as.



Just like the rumor which came about suiciding and getting 80 virgins with no quotes to support that statement as well. All these are used to justify Israels actions. Not to say Hamas is perfect becasue as stated as long as they continue to rain down their terror on civilians they only making life worst for the Palestinians.


But the 80 virgins thing has a basis in fact. I've read the entire Qur'an and much of the Hadith and they do talk about the Houri. Dark eyed virgins who do nothing but pleasure the mujihads. It's just an extension of the misunderstanding of what Jihad really is. Zionism is essentially the same thing, except for Jews-if you go back and read the literature, you can see that. Or, just talk to the Zionists.



To wrap it up we just need to take a neutral approach. Come down hard on both sides. Hamas stop firing rockets on innocent civilians and Israel pull out of settlements and open borders so these people can get some aid. If we cant even do that then this will never end.


I'm glad we're starting to agree.

As of your edit of course I seen arabs support Israel in fact when I watch the Doha debates which has some pretty good topics regarding Israel you will see some arabs critical of Israel. Does it mean arab media is reporting both sides of the story?



It means the Arab media gives attention to both sides, but so does Fox News.

What do you THINK Zionism is, exactly?

It is late so I am going to be brief.

Yes I have seen Israel get out but I dont think I have seen attacks on the religion thus far. I also agree with you and I stated it on previous threads that there are some people who attack jews and blame jews for all their problems and I see those people as being ignorant. You cant blame a miniority and think that they speak for the majority. This is not from muslims only trust me many christians talk about this as well. I heard the Illumanti and freemason conspiracy as well. I also heard the flouride in toothpaste to make you suspectible to believing everything lol. Many of those I dismiss thats taking it too the extreme.

As far as zionism being evil in the USA media not too sure because now it is considered anti-semetic to criticize zionism here I need to find the source of that and I will post it. As far as the 80 virgins not all Hadiths are real as I been told to take some as a grain of salt. Like I said with that particular one the same with Jihad you can ask any muslim around the world or a local mosque if it is Islam to blow oneself up and they are promised 80 virgins. I can almost gaurentee you they all will say no. I still think this statement is a smokescreen to cover up the real reason why suicide bombing exist in palestine which is grief. When your family has died in front of you, home bulldozed, witnessing bodies ripped apart, with no weapons and nothing to live for they strap bombs and take revenge. Some say why Israel doesnt suicide bomb well lol why would they? They have weapons that can kill 200 people in less then 5 minutes. But our mainstream media still wants to try to make this into some kind of religious war be it muslims hating jews and vice versa. I have read a lot about zionism and I will talk about it tomorrow today I am just tired as hell. As stated there are billions of muslims around the world so how is it that we see some crazed fanatics speak for the majority? If I had this mentality I would think all jews are evil judging by the crazed Israeli government.

I dont hate Israeli people I just hate the government as much as you would hate Hamas government. Hamas uses terror we cant deny that and as much as I dont agree with there methods I know why. Because of occupation, economic warfare, and settlement building. The media is virtually silent on these issues and this is killing the Palestinian people. These cease fires arent doing a damn thing if we let Israel continue this. Israel uses organized terror.

I dunno if I can agree with that fox news statements because they never bring up settlements being apart of the retaliation and during the war in lebanon it wasnt bought up that Hezbollah kidnap those soldiers to trade with the lebanese civilians locked away in Israeli dungeons. Fox news did not bring up the economic warfare imposed on gaza which sparked Hamas attacks nor the November killings. Fox always seems to put on Israeli officials and when you get a Palestinian supporter it is usually attack mode. This is why USA media not even recommended around the world. I am not saying being pro Palestinian but if you going to report fair and balanced like you say you are then report both sides and let us decide.

I want the US to be more neutral rather then taking a pro approach to anyside because funding Hamas with weapons and they may just do to Israel with Israel is doing to them currently. We just need more brave politicians to speak out and not fear these Zionist organizations out to call you an anti-semite if you speak about them.

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