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UN Resolution 242
Yei
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Posted 6/3/09

SeraphAlford wrote:

Didn’t you read what I just wrote? Israel was defending, supplying, and funding Hamas. Israel encouraged Hamas, gave them weapons to protect themselves and food to spread amongst the hungry. Hamas responded by launching a series of suicide bombers into Israel. This was before the wall even existed-so you can’t tell me that their aggression is only the result of an economic blockade.

Hamas’ charter cites out of context sura from the Qur’an to declare a genocidal campaign on Jews-not Israel, Jews. You can read the charter yourself. It describes this campaign as every Muslim’s divine obligation. The fact that the Palestinian people supported them in the 2006 election suggests that the Palestinians have no interest in peace.

This being said while those elections did give Hamas a majority seat in the parliament they did not give Hamas power over Gaza. That was taken by means of a military force. The Gazans were not able to resist Hamas. So, if Hamas remains in control what makes you think that the will of the Palestinian people will regulate their bellicose warmongering, dismissal of international law, insistence on total genocide, disrespect of Mosques, and disregard of human rights?

Remember that in 2007 Hamas publically executed all of its political opponents in Gaza. Anybody who so much as uttered a word in favor of Fatah-not to mention Jews, Israel, America, or secularism-was publically executed. They were shot down in the streets and thrown from rooftops. Does this sound like an institution that’s interested in what the people want?

With or without popular support Hamas is going to press towards war. The Gazans didn’t want to fight Israel, they knew they couldn’t win. They knew that Israel is an aggressive entity and that this war would only cause them pain. They certainly didn’t want Hamas to withdraw into their cities-but what did Hamas do?

What you must remember is that Hamas did win the majority seat in parliament, but at least forty three of those seats were also awarded to Fatah-yet, Hamas as declared war to force Fatah out of the government. So, they’re voiding the at least minutely bi-partisan will of their people.

There’s also a question as to rather or not their conduct during the elections was true to the election system. This being said, I’ve read all the accusations and I don’t think there’s any hard evidence that they did anything notably undemocratic. Naturally, you see your typical Islamo-Fascist crap going on but it’s nothing Fatah wasn’t also guilty of to some degree. Basically, people say that Hamas bribed voters with ‘humanitarian aid,’ but I think that’s silly. It’s like saying that America is bribing Palestine because it’s the number one contributor to charities to Palestine (and the world for that matter).

Yet, many Palestinians still support Hamas which tells me they don't want freedom and democracy. Many of them simply want to destroy Israel. They refuse to acknowledge it as a sovereign state, they refuse to acknowledge it has a right to exist (even in the two-state plan,) and they don’t want a Jewish presence in the Middle East. Don’t forget, Jews in Palestine are being slaughtered every day.

All this being said I believe Hamas can change however recalcitrant it is. I’m simply skeptical because they refuse to amend their charter which calls for liberation, yes, but also genocide and conquest. They proclaim their will to control all of Palestine and Israel and have also made public announcements along the same lines. Barrack Obama, the United Nations, all the Common Wealth nations, and the European Union have all urged Hamas to amend the charter and it refused. Why would they do that unless it is their intention to follow through with the claims?

Israel and Hamas have both offered and rejected the two-state plan under certain conditions. Israel’s conditions were, as they usually are in these circumstances (for political purposes, I assure you,) entirely liberal. Essentially their big demand was that Hamas publically and actively acknowledge them as a sovereign state, amend the charter, and cease missile fire. Hamas turned the plan-which the Palestinians support-down because they were not willing to make these simple concessions.

Fatah is…comparatively liberal. This being said they don’t have any more dedication to the will of their people than Hamas does, which is why I wish the Palestinians would stand up elect more independents. Now, honestly, do you seriously think Hamas is going to be nice? Even if Israel does? They don't want freedom, they want revenge and power.


The main problem with Hamas is, like every other political power in the Middle East, it's horribly corrupt.

You notice every time peace talks are under way or an agreement is almost reached, is when suicide bomber strikes or Hamas stupidly fires some futile missiles? Then Israel has an excuse to cancel peace talks, not have to do anything productive, or maybe even massacre some Palestinians. And why would Israel support and give money to a terrorist group like Hamas? And then Fatah shows up and they start fighting for stupid reasons and everyone has this horrible image of Palestinians as terrorists. Hamas is supported by alot of Palestinians because Israel gives them a reason to do so. Israel wants everything that's been happening to happen.
http://www.prisonplanet.com/analysis_watson_012703_hamas.html

Hamas has the potential to do alot of good for the Palestinians if it wasn't for the extreme corruption in it's leadership. Basically, as long as the Palestinians keep being crazy, violent terrorists, Israel/US are happy.




Article 49 of the Fourth Geneva Convention regulates the occupation of land; it does not forbid it, though I see you’ve been reading your Finkelstein. Well, forget what Finkelstein tells you to think. Here’s the text of Article 49 of the Fourth Geneva Convention. You make your own interpretations.



The Occupying Power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies.

The settlements were, and are illegal, and Israel was encouraging the illegal settlements the whole time. The courts even unanimously decided that the settlements were illegal and that the proper borders are the pre-1967 ones. So there's not much controversy there.




Again, you can’t have one without the other. Either you abandon the two-state plan or you force the Israelis out. The Palestinians will not accept the two-state plan without the evacuation-which would require Israel to break the Geneva Convention against its own people.

Also, the Israelites have been much nicer to the Palestinian refugees better than anyone else. Consider that in Lebanon the Palestinians aren’t even allowed to have homes. The homes they’d already built are now illegal and being demolished and they’re not allowed to rebuild. In Israel, on the other hand, Palestinians are allowed to have homes so long as they live up to that nation’s safety requirements. Yes, Palestinian homes have been demolished, but contrary to the claim that it was for bigoted purposes Israel has already shown that there were un-race related reasons for the demolition. What the Arab and anti-Israel media sources neglected to mention is that the many of the houses destroyed may have been in Palestinian/Arab neighborhoods, but they actually belonged to Jews.
This being said, it doesn’t require any assumption except that the Palestinians will continue doing what they currently are to say that the settlers would be discriminated against if we walked into the twilight zone and the two-state plan was accepted without the forced evacuation. Jews in Palestine are already being discriminated against, why should that change just because Israel accepts the two state plan?


Well can't they design a new 2-state plan that doesn't require their forced removal? And the Palestinians will accept it even with the Israelis if it's their only option if they want state-hood.

Really? Israel has treated the Palestinian refugees the nicest? Wait, isn't Israel the one that ethnically cleansed them and caused them to be refugees in the first place? I have never heard about Lebanon's treatment of Palestinians being that bad, in fact, I thought Lebanon was one the countries to sign the equal treatment of Palestinian refugees: http://www.forcedmigration.org/guides/fmo018/fmo018.pdf There's a whole list of rights all refugees get. And I doubt Lebanon would treat Palestinians badly anyway, why would they?

I really don't even want to get started on Israel's treatments of the Palestinians, especially the refugees.




However much you’d like it to be true, I’ve already told you that their actions were not illegal by the international law of that time. Even if they were, how can you expect Israel to acknowledge international law when the Arabs refuse to reciprocate? The real reason there are problems in the peace process isn’t because of Israel, it goes further back than that. Straight down to Israel’s War for Independence in which the Arab League rejected the two-state in favor of genocide and war. Palestine would be celebrating sixty years of independence by now if they had simply taken the deal-but they didn’t want that, they didn’t want peace, they wanted conquest and war. They got the latter, but unfortunately (despite support from the UK and neutrality from the US,) they were not able to attain the former however hard they tried to ethnically cleanse the Middle East.


They were illegal. And you're saying because the Arabs don't follow international law, it's ok for Israel to do the same thing? And it's because of the Arabs that there can't be peace!?!?1

I'm going post something for you at the end.






The conventions did not forbid attaining land from war, hints the necessity of resolution 242. So it was not illegal then, even though it is now.


Yeah they did.

"The Fourth Geneva Convention of 1949, emphasized an important international law. The United Nations Charter (June 26, 1945) had prohibited war of aggression (See articles 1.1, 2.3, 2.4) and GCIV Article 47, the first paragraph in Section III: Occupied territories, restricted the territorial gains which could be made through war by stating:"



You can't increase your territory through war, it's a basic, well known international law. So keeping the land and expanding Israel's territory was illegal, and putting settlers there was illegal. Everything Israel did was illegal and made this entire conflict so much more complicated.




Then you’re closing your eyes to the facts that don’t support your warped perspective. Jimmy Carter has written more than two dozen articles condemning Israel and was elected president of the United States and later won the Nobel Peace Prize. Paul Findley, a former republican senator who remains an active political figure, was re-elected over, and over, and over again and yet actively and openly condemned Israel. His recent book, “Silent No More,” completely condemns Israel and calls in the support of multiple US politicians from all across the public offices.


I don't live in the US, and I usually don't waste time watching US news, but even I know it's common knowledge.


Jon Stewart will explain:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czZ99Brw7LY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yy1H_r5GUGo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=699FfxY2ueI

The media and the politicians seem to support Israel 100%. Of course this has nothing to do with the US long standing connections and funding with Israel.




Every extreme republican has alot of interest in Israel, and love it almost too much. When something happens involving Israel it's the top story everywhere, while worse things are happening in Somalia and Sudan everyday but no one cares. Why is Israel so special to people in the US? Maybe it has alot to do with the US governments involvement with Israel. Otherwise I'm sure it's something religious.

I like the every, good generalization. I also like how you state it as fact. This being said, there is only a very, very, very tiny percent of the American population identifying itself within the hyper conservative spectrum; therefore, even if your generalization is true it still doesn’t represent the American people as a whole, the republican party as a whole, or the Christians as a whole.



You know how I know about the republican views of Israel? Fox News. enough said.




Dam those thieving Jews! Err, I mean Zionists/Israel of course, not the Jews! My bigoted view isn’t anti-Semantic because I replace the word Jew/Jews with Israel/Zionists when I make absurd accusations!

Come on, get real. Muslims and Arabs have only had control of Israel twice - from 634 until the Crusader invasion in June 1099, and from 1292 until the year 1517 when they were dispelled by the Turks in their conquest. The holy land was given to Israel by the United Nations.


Not all Muslims and Arabs are antisemitic....

It doesn't really matter who owned it when, what happened to the Palestinians in 1948 was unjustifiable.


Besides, Israel has much more spiritual significant than the Jews. Jerusalem isn’t mentioned once in the Qur’an. Jerusalem is mentioned over 700 times in Tanakh, not to mention the varying Talmuds.


Well religion would be a reason for Arabs or Jews to fight over the land, but it doesn't justify anything. I'll make up a religion right now where Israel is my holiest land too, does that mean I should have it? Religion and politics shouldn't mix.



The Hadith might make vague references that may be directed at Jerusalem, but the Hadith aren’t even respected as fully authenticated amongst the ummah much less the historical community. There is also a Hadith attesting that FGM is a wife’s obligation to her husband because it’ll feel better for the man. Never mind the fact that the woman can never experience sexual pleasure herself. Mutilating the human body, that doesn’t sound at all like the Islam I know! Why, because the Hadith are largely false and everyone knows it.


Which Hadith is that??




Religion an anti-Semitism are the main factors and I'm fairly certain we both know it.


It's not for the rational Muslims/Arabs. And there are alot, believe me.




Alright, I've realized it's hard to discuss politics with people who are ignorant of the true nature of power in the world. Watch a movie called The Obama Deception, (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrpRocaEfQE&feature=PlayList&p=9657816B36974DC0&index=0) and hopefully it will open your eyes to what's really been going on.
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Posted 6/3/09
I think anyone with any kind of intuition have already detected that wealthy elites have userped American democracy, and unfortunately my native Canada too.

The real problem is that with this recession most people are in such a bad spot financially that they don't have the time the energy or willpower to take part in government.

Political parties that actually stand up for the people at grass roots are under funded and therefore ill equipped to compete with their titanic rivals. The story of David and Goliath is romanticized but in reality how many Davids did Goliath crush before one got lucky?

I agree that people who are trying to create this new world order are indeed treasonous, but who is able to hold them accountable. The police? The police have very little ability to effect events on such a large scale and the larger national organizations are easily manipulated by influential politicians.

So who then is there to save us? A sympathetic insider? I suggest you read 1984 and find out what happens when you deal with someone you think is a supposed sympathetic insider. The people that hold the reins of power rarely are acting in the interest of the people and those that are, can often be seen on page 4 the new paper being brought down by some minor scandal that may or may not even have a basis in fact.

What can you do? Work for yourself, don't be an employee be an entrepreneur, there is always a way to make it happen and most people would rather deal with a trustworthy local person than a multinational consortium.

Participate in local government. Join that underdog party that is actually trying to stand up for the little people, even if you don't get much real power at least you can bring the other parties to task for any outlandish wrongdoings. Law low obey the law, protest the ones that are absurd. Things are pretty bad right now but this new world order business is far from official and that means you can still prevent it.
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Posted 6/3/09

Yei wrote:
The main problem with Hamas is, like every other political power in the Middle East, it's horribly corrupt.


This isn’t a matter of corruption. The purpose of Hamas is to wage a genocidal campaign against the Jews and that’s exactly what they’re trying to do. Their main problem is that they’re a company of religious bigots blinded by lies and driven by hate and ignorance. I find them shockingly similar to the KKK in their conduct, except the KKK doesn’t extend its terrorism to its own people and is probably better organized.


You notice every time peace talks are under way or an agreement is almost reached, is when suicide bomber strikes or Hamas stupidly fires some futile missiles?


Actually, no, I have not noticed anything of the sort. One example is that when Israel agreed to leave Gaza after their recent campaign they announced that if Hamas fired a missile at Israel it will have proven itself to be an evil institution. Although there were some inexorable conflicts involving small arms and individual units, Hamas did –not- ruin the peace agreement. Assuming your conspiracy theory is true this would’ve been the perfect opportunity.

What I notice is that the peace treaties last just long enough for Israel’s enemy’s to re-group, re-organize, and begin with a renewed assault. Anyone who’s studied the history of Israel’s wars could see this very clearly.


Then Israel has an excuse to cancel peace talks, not have to do anything productive, or maybe even massacre some Palestinians.
And why would Israel support and give money to a terrorist group like Hamas?


Israel funded Hamas because, as I’ve said a hundred times before, Hamas originally began as a non-militant Muslim humanitarian aid organization. Even after it declared jihad against Israel Hamas continued to use Israeli funding to feed and clothe Palestinians, at least until it won the elections and no logner needed their support.



And then Fatah shows up and they start fighting for stupid reasons and everyone has this horrible image of Palestinians as terrorists.


Hamas is the aggressor against Fatah, not the opposite. Fatah already had power and did not need violence to grasp it. Hamas, on the other hand, was being dennied power they felt (perhaps rightfully so,) was rightfully theirs and reacted by slaughtering people in the streets until they got what they want. This is a terrorist tactic.


Hamas is supported by alot of Palestinians because Israel gives them a reason to do so. Israel wants everything that's been happening to happen.


Yeah, every nation loves being hit with missiles , boycotted by their closest neighbors, and internationally slandered.


Hamas has the potential to do alot of good for the Palestinians if it wasn't for the extreme corruption in it's leadership. Basically, as long as the Palestinians keep being crazy, violent terrorists, Israel/US are happy.


Yeah, it could, and the first step to do a lot of good for Palestine is to amend those charters and make peace with Israel, but Hamas has no intention to do so.




Article 49 of the Fourth Geneva Convention regulates the occupation of land; it does not forbid it, though I see you’ve been reading your Finkelstein. Well, forget what Finkelstein tells you to think. Here’s the text of Article 49 of the Fourth Geneva Convention. You make your own interpretations.



The Occupying Power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies.

The settlements were, and are illegal, and Israel was encouraging the illegal settlements the whole time. The courts even unanimously decided that the settlements were illegal and that the proper borders are the pre-1967 ones. So there's not much controversy there.


Wrong, they ruled that the settlements AFTER 1967 were illegal, but again, good Finkelstein reference. Israel didn't transfer its citizens as it stands, they went there on their own. Israel just did nothing to prevent it, which yes, was a mistake because now we have this situation.

might bother getting along to the rest of this shit later.
Yei
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Posted 6/3/09 , edited 6/3/09
Israel encouraged people to settle there even though it was not legally even part of Israel.

And the excuse for that is they didn't literally transfer people, they just told them it would be a good idea to go there? ReallY? Well that's not what the United Nations Security Council, the International Court of Justice, the European Union, Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch say.

* The International Committee of the Red Cross' commentaries to the Geneva Conventions state that Article 49, paragraph 6, "is intended to prevent a practice adopted during the Second World War by certain Powers, which transferred portions of their own population to occupied territory for political and racial reasons or in order, as they claimed, to colonize those territories." It further notes "that in this paragraph the meaning of the words 'transfer' and 'deport' is rather different from that in which they are used in the other paragraphs of Article 49 since they do not refer to the movement of protected persons but to that of nationals of the occupying Power". The Committee has on several occasions described the establishment of Israeli settlements in the occupied territories as a violation of the Fourth Geneva Convention.
* the International Court of Justice, in paragraph 120 of its advisory opinion on the "Legal Consequences of the Construction of a Wall in the Occupied Palestinian Territory", asserts that: "That provision [article 49(6)] prohibits not only deportations or forced transfers of population such as those carried out during the Second World War, but also any measures taken by an occupying Power in order to organize or encourage transfers of parts of its own population into the occupied territory" and "concludes that the Israeli settlements in the Occupied Palestinian Territory (including East Jerusalem) have been established in breach of international law". The dissenting judge Thomas Buergenthal agreed that "this provision applies to the Israeli settlements in the West Bank and that their existence violates Article 49, paragraph 6".
* Article 8(2)(b)(viii) of the International Criminal Court Rome Statute defines "[t]he transfer, directly or indirectly, by the Occupying Power of parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies" as a war crime. Israel did initially sign the statute, but later declared its intention not to ratify it.
* The Security Council has in Resolution 446 determined: "that the policy and practices of Israel in establishing settlements in the Palestinian and other Arab territories occupied since 1967 have no legal validity".


What Israel did was against the Geneva Convention and a war crime. And no, International Court of Justice ruled on July 9th 2004 that ALL the settlements on occupied land are illegal.
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Posted 6/3/09

Yei wrote:

Israel encouraged people to settle there even though it was not legally even part of Israel.

And the excuse for that is they didn't literally transfer people, they just told them it would be a good idea to go there? ReallY? Well that's not what the United Nations Security Council, the International Court of Justice, the European Union, Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch say.

* The International Committee of the Red Cross' commentaries to the Geneva Conventions state that Article 49, paragraph 6, "is intended to prevent a practice adopted during the Second World War by certain Powers, which transferred portions of their own population to occupied territory for political and racial reasons or in order, as they claimed, to colonize those territories." It further notes "that in this paragraph the meaning of the words 'transfer' and 'deport' is rather different from that in which they are used in the other paragraphs of Article 49 since they do not refer to the movement of protected persons but to that of nationals of the occupying Power". The Committee has on several occasions described the establishment of Israeli settlements in the occupied territories as a violation of the Fourth Geneva Convention.
* the International Court of Justice, in paragraph 120 of its advisory opinion on the "Legal Consequences of the Construction of a Wall in the Occupied Palestinian Territory", asserts that: "That provision [article 49(6)] prohibits not only deportations or forced transfers of population such as those carried out during the Second World War, but also any measures taken by an occupying Power in order to organize or encourage transfers of parts of its own population into the occupied territory" and "concludes that the Israeli settlements in the Occupied Palestinian Territory (including East Jerusalem) have been established in breach of international law". The dissenting judge Thomas Buergenthal agreed that "this provision applies to the Israeli settlements in the West Bank and that their existence violates Article 49, paragraph 6".
* Article 8(2)(b)(viii) of the International Criminal Court Rome Statute defines "[t]he transfer, directly or indirectly, by the Occupying Power of parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies" as a war crime. Israel did initially sign the statute, but later declared its intention not to ratify it.
* The Security Council has in Resolution 446 determined: "that the policy and practices of Israel in establishing settlements in the Palestinian and other Arab territories occupied since 1967 have no legal validity".


What Israel did was against the Geneva Convention and a war crime. And no, International Court of Justice ruled that ALL the settlements on occupied land are illegal settlements.


And this is why wars aren't fun anymore, virtually everything is a war crime. Wars should be like they used to be, not these watered down conflicts we call wars.
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Posted 6/3/09 , edited 6/3/09
Amazing how all Israels actions can be cast aside as normal with no consequence. We act like homemade none explosive rockets are coming from people who have absolutely nothing to do rather then attack Israel. But we simply ignore the occupation, starvation, and economic warfare. Resisting occupying powers is now considered as being terrorist organizations how did this come to being? Would Hamas and Hezbollah even form if Israel occupied, maimed, ethnic cleanse people? We act like resistances are not suppose to form and people should live in hell for the rest of their lives.

On another note what strikes me is Canada's JDL (Jewish Defense League). Now here in USA we have the ADL but JDL is roots is far more powerful. Lol they was actually able to convince the Canadian government that former British Parliament member George Galloway was a threat to their country. All the man did was deliver food, supplies, baby diapers, etc. to the people of Palestine after Israels violent attack on them. Now I mean we have to see people has human beings here and as a natural human emotion when people go their tragic events people and organizations will be there to send aid after the event. I guess the JDL doesnt give two shits if the Palestinians live in shit at all. So they was successfully able to get Canada to ban him from the country. He was able to travel the USA and all of it states but Canada seems to think he is there to spread hate.

Take a look at this video and the pathetic JDL trying to convince us that George Galloway is a threat http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FoAG4H2sSzE I swear all these Jewish Anti-Semitic hate groups are all bullshit. Lol the even have an internet organization JIDF http://www.thejidf.org/ supposedly aim to stop anti semitism aka any criticism towards Israel/Zionism and not Jewish religion in particular. Hell to them I am probably an anti-semite. These people why are they going so far to do this? Dont they know this only makes the situation worse? Year 2009 has anti-semitism really died down after seeing Israels actions and all these stupid Jewish organizations silencing criticism?

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Posted 6/3/09

drizza wrote:

Amazing how all Israels actions can be cast aside as normal with no consequence. We act like homemade none explosive rockets are coming from people who have absolutely nothing to do rather then attack Israel. But we simply ignore the occupation, starvation, and economic warfare. Resisting occupying powers is now considered as being terrorist organizations how did this come to being? Would Hamas and Hezbollah even form if Israel occupied, maimed, ethnic cleanse people? We act like resistances are not suppose to form and people should live in hell for the rest of their lives.

On another note what strikes me is Canada's JDL (Jewish Defense League). Now here in USA we have the ADL but JDL is roots is far more powerful. Lol they was actually able to convince the Canadian government that former British Parliament member George Galloway was a threat to their country. All the man did was deliver food, supplies, baby diapers, etc. to the people of Palestine after Israels violent attack on them. Now I mean we have to see people has human beings here and as a natural human emotion when people go their tragic events people and organizations will be there to send aid after the event. I guess the JDL doesnt give two shits if the Palestinians live in shit at all. So they was successfully able to get Canada to ban him from the country. He was able to travel the USA and all of it states but Canada seems to think he is there to spread hate.

Take a look at this video and the pathetic JDL trying to convince us that George Galloway is a threat http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FoAG4H2sSzE I swear all these Jewish Anti-Semitic hate groups are all bullshit. Lol the even have an internet organization JIDF http://www.thejidf.org/ supposedly aim to stop anti semitism aka any criticism towards Israel/Zionism and not Jewish religion in particular. Hell to them I am probably an anti-semite. These people why are they going so far to do this? Dont they know this only makes the situation worse? Year 2009 has anti-semitism really died down after seeing Israels actions and all these stupid Jewish organizations silencing criticism?



Lol you seems piss off, well lets face it this is reality. You are likely to labeled anti-semite seconds later if they ever read your post.
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Posted 6/4/09

drizza wrote:

Amazing how all Israels actions can be cast aside as normal with no consequence. We act like homemade none explosive rockets are coming from people who have absolutely nothing to do rather then attack Israel. But we simply ignore the occupation, starvation, and economic warfare. Resisting occupying powers is now considered as being terrorist organizations how did this come to being? Would Hamas and Hezbollah even form if Israel occupied, maimed, ethnic cleanse people? We act like resistances are not suppose to form and people should live in hell for the rest of their lives.

On another note what strikes me is Canada's JDL (Jewish Defense League). Now here in USA we have the ADL but JDL is roots is far more powerful. Lol they was actually able to convince the Canadian government that former British Parliament member George Galloway was a threat to their country. All the man did was deliver food, supplies, baby diapers, etc. to the people of Palestine after Israels violent attack on them. Now I mean we have to see people has human beings here and as a natural human emotion when people go their tragic events people and organizations will be there to send aid after the event. I guess the JDL doesnt give two shits if the Palestinians live in shit at all. So they was successfully able to get Canada to ban him from the country. He was able to travel the USA and all of it states but Canada seems to think he is there to spread hate.

Take a look at this video and the pathetic JDL trying to convince us that George Galloway is a threat http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FoAG4H2sSzE I swear all these Jewish Anti-Semitic hate groups are all bullshit. Lol the even have an internet organization JIDF http://www.thejidf.org/ supposedly aim to stop anti semitism aka any criticism towards Israel/Zionism and not Jewish religion in particular. Hell to them I am probably an anti-semite. These people why are they going so far to do this? Dont they know this only makes the situation worse? Year 2009 has anti-semitism really died down after seeing Israels actions and all these stupid Jewish organizations silencing criticism?



I agree with you. Its like saying that french resistance or US troops in Europe during ww2 was actually terrorist act against the poor innocent nazis.
Posted 6/4/09

blancer wrote:

I agree with you. Its like saying that french resistance or US troops in Europe during ww2 was actually terrorist act against the poor innocent nazis.


Maybe from a Nazi standpoint it was?
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Hmm, I can't decide if it is more sad or ironic that in order to create and support Israel that many Jewish survivors have become the very thing they hated in the Nazi regime, sure there are no gas chambers for Palestinians, but from what I read it seems that they are making ghettos for them, which is an unfortunate step in the wrong direction.
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digs 
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I think Hamas does more Palestinian oppression then Israel does. In fact, Israel doesn't oppress the Palestinians. It isn't oppression to protect yourself from terrorists who have it within their own charter to drive all Jews into the sea and genocide Israel and set up Jerusalem as a Palestinian capitol (Hamas).
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Posted 6/4/09

ShroomInferno wrote:


blancer wrote:

I agree with you. Its like saying that french resistance or US troops in Europe during ww2 was actually terrorist act against the poor innocent nazis.


Maybe from a Nazi standpoint it was?


That was my point. It was open, all - out war, so you can not call it terrorism, but if you see it from their standpoint, and compare it to what is said in this thread, that was it: an act of terrorism.

But in reality those two things can not be compared, of course.
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Posted 6/4/09 , edited 6/4/09

digs wrote:

I think Hamas does more Palestinian oppression then Israel does. In fact, Israel doesn't oppress the Palestinians. It isn't oppression to protect yourself from terrorists who have it within their own charter to drive all Jews into the sea and genocide Israel and set up Jerusalem as a Palestinian capitol (Hamas).


Basically making life worse for people is protecting your county? Making life worse for someone breeds no hatred toward your country? So innocent Palestinians should blame Hamas for Israel starving them, still building settlements and illegal roads into their lands saying "Jews Only". Thats protecting your people. Putting Israel citizens in settlements right next to hamas is protecting citizens? Dude nobody will like you if you keep this behavior up.

On another up wow Obamas speech on Israel/Palestine in Egypt shocked the shit out of me. Never heard a president actually criticize Israel and get applause for it. Now the first thing I had to do is turn to Faux News and I was not surprised at all. Nothing but attacks on Obama for criticizing Israel. They stating he criticized Israel too much etc, Palestinians fault etc, the same ole you criticize Israel then your wrong. You must be fully on board with all their terror and hate Arabs/Islam. All day Fox is attacking this man for this. But anyways that was a great speech from Obama and hopefully it will break the one sided view with Israel and bring some real peace.
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digs 
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Posted 6/4/09

drizza wrote:


digs wrote:

I think Hamas does more Palestinian oppression then Israel does. In fact, Israel doesn't oppress the Palestinians. It isn't oppression to protect yourself from terrorists who have it within their own charter to drive all Jews into the sea and genocide Israel and set up Jerusalem as a Palestinian capitol (Hamas).


Basically making life worse for people is protecting your county? Making life worse for someone breeds no hatred toward your country? So innocent Palestinians should blame Hamas for Israel starving them, still building settlements and illegal roads into their lands saying "Jews Only". Thats protecting your people. Putting Israel citizens in settlements right next to hamas is protecting citizens? Dude nobody will like you if you keep this behavior up.

On another up wow Obamas speech on Israel/Palestine in Egypt shocked the shit out of me. Never heard a president actually criticize Israel and get applause for it. Now the first thing I had to do is turn to Faux News and I was not surprised at all. Nothing but attacks on Obama for criticizing Israel. They stating he criticized Israel too much etc, Palestinians fault etc, the same ole you criticize Israel then your wrong. You must be fully on board with all their terror and hate Arabs/Islam. All day Fox is attacking this man for this. But anyways that was a great speech from Obama and hopefully it will break the one sided view with Israel and bring some real peace.


Israel isn't starving Palestinians and Hamas is the one making Gaza into a concentration camp that breeds terror. In Gaza all Jewish Israelis were forced to leave even if they wanted to stay and live among the Palestinians. They were militantly removed by force by the Israeli Army. There are no Jewish settlements in Gaza, and there certainly aren't roads that say "Jews Only."

Obama says what he wants his audience to here. When Obama was in Israel he basically praised the Israelis and condemned Hamas. When Obama is with Arabs and Egyptians he says what they want to hear. And Obama did criticize Israel too much in his speech, and he did it to gain the support of the Arab nations and Egypt. He flips himself when he goes to different countries, he never condemned Israel while he was in Israel (and if he said they needed to change anything, he wasn't as open and critical of them). Obama wants everyone to lobe him, so he spews what his audience wants to hear at that moment. The only one sided view I see on the issue is in the Arab world where all of them despise Israel and condemn everything they do while refusing to recognize them as a nation. In America most people support Israel, but there are many who are highly critical of it. I would say it's about a 60/40 split in the US and a much higher split in Europe.
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Posted 6/4/09

digs wrote:


drizza wrote:


digs wrote:

I think Hamas does more Palestinian oppression then Israel does. In fact, Israel doesn't oppress the Palestinians. It isn't oppression to protect yourself from terrorists who have it within their own charter to drive all Jews into the sea and genocide Israel and set up Jerusalem as a Palestinian capitol (Hamas).


Basically making life worse for people is protecting your county? Making life worse for someone breeds no hatred toward your country? So innocent Palestinians should blame Hamas for Israel starving them, still building settlements and illegal roads into their lands saying "Jews Only". Thats protecting your people. Putting Israel citizens in settlements right next to hamas is protecting citizens? Dude nobody will like you if you keep this behavior up.

On another up wow Obamas speech on Israel/Palestine in Egypt shocked the shit out of me. Never heard a president actually criticize Israel and get applause for it. Now the first thing I had to do is turn to Faux News and I was not surprised at all. Nothing but attacks on Obama for criticizing Israel. They stating he criticized Israel too much etc, Palestinians fault etc, the same ole you criticize Israel then your wrong. You must be fully on board with all their terror and hate Arabs/Islam. All day Fox is attacking this man for this. But anyways that was a great speech from Obama and hopefully it will break the one sided view with Israel and bring some real peace.


Israel isn't starving Palestinians and Hamas is the one making Gaza into a concentration camp that breeds terror. In Gaza all Jewish Israelis were forced to leave even if they wanted to stay and live among the Palestinians. They were militantly removed by force by the Israeli Army. There are no Jewish settlements in Gaza, and there certainly aren't roads that say "Jews Only."

Obama says what he wants his audience to here. When Obama was in Israel he basically praised the Israelis and condemned Hamas. When Obama is with Arabs and Egyptians he says what they want to hear. And Obama did criticize Israel too much in his speech, and he did it to gain the support of the Arab nations and Egypt. He flips himself when he goes to different countries, he never condemned Israel while he was in Israel (and if he said they needed to change anything, he wasn't as open and critical of them). Obama wants everyone to lobe him, so he spews what his audience wants to hear at that moment. The only one sided view I see on the issue is in the Arab world where all of them despise Israel and condemn everything they do while refusing to recognize them as a nation. In America most people support Israel, but there are many who are highly critical of it. I would say it's about a 60/40 split in the US and a much higher split in Europe.


How is Hamas starving the people are they the ones blocking all the entrances to Gaza? Are they the ones forcing the Palestinians into one large jail cell? If this was the case also are the Palestinians not smart enough to elect someone who wont starve them? If this was blatant why is there more hatred towards Israel then Hamas in Palestine? So what exactly is Israel doing just minding her own business and she gets randomly attacked from out the blue is that how you see this? If you see it this way your not even in step with the USA even pro Israel supporters know about the illegal settlements and the blocking of all trades routes by Israel. They also know of the Israeli/Jewish only roads built inside of Palestinian land. How can you go to someone else's land and build roads and then be justified?

I dont want Obama to praise Hamas of course he will condemn Hamas in Israel and Egypt. Your response is not surprising at all of Obama being too critical of Israel the same was said about Chas Freeman before he declined his position because AIPAC thought he was too critical of Israel. What is too critcal of Israel? If it was too critical how do you not be too critical of Israel. What Obama spoke was light criticism in comparison of too critical. Denoucing settlements and telling Israel they need to reconginze Palestine as a state which actions shows they apparently dont is too critical in your view? I guess he was to follow the status quo and say it in the most "soft" way in order to still look pro Israel. Really I swear after watching that speech it was already in my head, "Most of the mainstream and Americans who have been constantly being spoon fed one side of the story will most likely think he was being overly critical of Israel." The second I turn to Fox I was right.

Arab countries are recognizing Israel which is why they arent attacking them. Hell some are even friends with them check out Egypt. Which arab country is occupying Israel, having them live in one huge concentration camp? Are Israels lands battered/beat down like Palestinian lol not even close. It is not hard to despise Israel when you see how they can level lands and kill innocent civilians using advance weaponry and try to gain sympathy by using the same tired holocaust excuse to back themselves up. It is hard to not to despise Israel who ignores all international law. Jews such as Uri Avery and others believe many Israelis think they are the chosen people and they are above every other human being. I have heard this stat ement too many times but when you see their actions and what they can get away with around this world why wouldn't they believe this?

Hopefully I will get my internet set back up quickly after I finish moving to respond to you.
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