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Christian & Islamic views of Homosexuality
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M / Yo Mommas House
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Posted 6/24/09
If I am a muslim and I follow Islam then yes I will agree to everything my religion teaches in the Quran or else I am not really a muslim. How can you omit some parts of a religion. Like thats to say I am a muslim but I eat pork? Now your Quran and mine must have different translators because people try to match the english as close to the arabic as they possibly can. Mine says two men then it has men or women in paranthesis. Now like I stated and I dont want to keep going back and forth with you the stories in the Quran arent just bed time stories or something for entertainment. As I stated there is a lesson to be learned and muslims strive to follow the lives of the prophets. If the Quran has specific quotes of what Lot says about homosexuals then this shows us that this behavior is not tolerated as illustrated in the quotes. As I stated before that story with Lot was dealing with other issues as well not just homosexuality.

Now to answer in the Quran about left handed individuals God doesnt criticize people for being born the way they are. You will never find a quote criticizing races, sex, disabilities in the Quran or any religion at that. And also if you read the chapter dealing with women they are to be respected. In fact I have quotes which I need to find through my email to prove that. The prophet Mohammad was who does he love more and he said his mother 3 times first then his father.

Now we cant place blame on Islam and Christianity this is human nature. What religion was Hitler when he done those horrible things to the jews. If he did have a religion did he use it to justify his actions? I

Now to sum up your last sentence like I stated there is still no proof to this day that gays are born the way they are. I believe it is still choice/preference just like how Seraph said in a previous thread that he prefers asiains. Now everyone is different so of course some people are going to use religion to gain political ground or satisfy their own greeds. There is a another quote in the Quran about that as well but lol like I stated it has been awhile and my slow ass dad takes all day to respond to my emails for me to repost it.
Yei
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Posted 6/24/09

drizza wrote:

If I am a muslim and I follow Islam then yes I will agree to everything my religion teaches in the Quran or else I am not really a muslim. How can you omit some parts of a religion. Like thats to say I am a muslim but I eat pork? Now your Quran and mine must have different translators because people try to match the english as close to the arabic as they possibly can. Mine says two men then it has men or women in paranthesis. Now like I stated and I dont want to keep going back and forth with you the stories in the Quran arent just bed time stories or something for entertainment. As I stated there is a lesson to be learned and muslims strive to follow the lives of the prophets. If the Quran has specific quotes of what Lot says about homosexuals then this shows us that this behavior is not tolerated as illustrated in the quotes. As I stated before that story with Lot was dealing with other issues as well not just homosexuality.

Now to answer in the Quran about left handed individuals God doesnt criticize people for being born the way they are. You will never find a quote criticizing races, sex, disabilities in the Quran or any religion at that. And also if you read the chapter dealing with women they are to be respected. In fact I have quotes which I need to find through my email to prove that. The prophet Mohammad was who does he love more and he said his mother 3 times first then his father.

Now we cant place blame on Islam and Christianity this is human nature. What religion was Hitler when he done those horrible things to the jews. If he did have a religion did he use it to justify his actions? I

Now to sum up your last sentence like I stated there is still no proof to this day that gays are born the way they are. I believe it is still choice/preference just like how Seraph said in a previous thread that he prefers asiains. Now everyone is different so of course some people are going to use religion to gain political ground or satisfy their own greeds. There is a another quote in the Quran about that as well but lol like I stated it has been awhile and my slow ass dad takes all day to respond to my emails for me to repost it.


Remember, whether it is choice or biological is a scientific question; so scientists and psychologists and doctors who have done research are the only ones who are actually fit to give answers (other than homosexuals of course). And they say it's not choice, genes probably play a role, and it cannot be changed.

Now let's pretend homosexuality is not a choice and is biological. That would mean that the millions of gays all over the world are not just very talented and committed liars and actors who choose to be something they're not for whatever ridiculous reason. And it would mean all those scientists and doctors are not part of some conspiracy. Very hard to imagine, I know...

If sexual orientation is not a choice and cannot be changed, and is equivalent to being right or left-handed or black or white, would that mean Islam and Christianity are wrong? Or do you think Muslims and Christians would just suddenly rethink the verses condemning it?
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M / Yo Mommas House
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Posted 6/25/09 , edited 6/25/09

Yei wrote:


drizza wrote:

If I am a muslim and I follow Islam then yes I will agree to everything my religion teaches in the Quran or else I am not really a muslim. How can you omit some parts of a religion. Like thats to say I am a muslim but I eat pork? Now your Quran and mine must have different translators because people try to match the english as close to the arabic as they possibly can. Mine says two men then it has men or women in paranthesis. Now like I stated and I dont want to keep going back and forth with you the stories in the Quran arent just bed time stories or something for entertainment. As I stated there is a lesson to be learned and muslims strive to follow the lives of the prophets. If the Quran has specific quotes of what Lot says about homosexuals then this shows us that this behavior is not tolerated as illustrated in the quotes. As I stated before that story with Lot was dealing with other issues as well not just homosexuality.

Now to answer in the Quran about left handed individuals God doesnt criticize people for being born the way they are. You will never find a quote criticizing races, sex, disabilities in the Quran or any religion at that. And also if you read the chapter dealing with women they are to be respected. In fact I have quotes which I need to find through my email to prove that. The prophet Mohammad was who does he love more and he said his mother 3 times first then his father.

Now we cant place blame on Islam and Christianity this is human nature. What religion was Hitler when he done those horrible things to the jews. If he did have a religion did he use it to justify his actions? I

Now to sum up your last sentence like I stated there is still no proof to this day that gays are born the way they are. I believe it is still choice/preference just like how Seraph said in a previous thread that he prefers asiains. Now everyone is different so of course some people are going to use religion to gain political ground or satisfy their own greeds. There is a another quote in the Quran about that as well but lol like I stated it has been awhile and my slow ass dad takes all day to respond to my emails for me to repost it.


Remember, whether it is choice or biological is a scientific question; so scientists and psychologists and doctors who have done research are the only ones who are actually fit to give answers (other than homosexuals of course). And they say it's not choice, genes probably play a role, and it cannot be changed.

Now let's pretend homosexuality is not a choice and is biological. That would mean that the millions of gays all over the world are not just very talented and committed liars and actors who choose to be something they're not for whatever ridiculous reason. And it would mean all those scientists and doctors are not part of some conspiracy. Very hard to imagine, I know...

If sexual orientation is not a choice and cannot be changed, and is equivalent to being right or left-handed or black or white, would that mean Islam and Christianity are wrong? Or do you think Muslims and Christians would just suddenly rethink the verses condemning it?


Well untill I see this being the evidence around the world to silence criticism on homosexuality then I will always believe it is choice and it being the wrong choice. For Muslims I cant speak for Christianity, God is the all knowing, the all seeing so if homosexuality was ever something you are born with then It would be mentioned in the Quran when they it talks about relations. But it only speaks of it dealing with heterosexuals. It doesnt have any endorsements or support for any homosexual activity at all. There is nothing a human being can discover that God doesnt already know. The inventions you see now that we create came from the knowledge and resources recieved by God. Now since I believe in God and he is never wrong I believe that there will never be any evidance supporting this as a natural event.
Yei
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Posted 6/25/09

drizza wrote:
Well untill I see this being the evidence around the world to silence criticism on homosexuality then I will always believe it is choice and it being the wrong choice. For Muslims I cant speak for Christianity, God is the all knowing, the all seeing so if homosexuality was ever something you are born with then It would be mentioned in the Quran when they it talks about relations. But it only speaks of it dealing with heterosexuals. It doesnt have any endorsements or support for any homosexual activity at all. Now since I believe in God and he is never wrong I believe that there will never be any evidance supporting this as a natural event.


There's 3 possibilities with homosexuality: it's a choice (just like stealing or killing), it's some sort of mental disorder (like if someone was bipolar, so it's not their fault and they just need help), or it's not a choice, not a disorder, and perfectly ok.

It's ridiculous to think it's just simple choice, that makes absolutely no sense at all. So you should stick with the idea of it being a mental disorder, even though that's not what scientists and doctors all say, but what do they know.
Yei
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Posted 6/25/09 , edited 6/25/09
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/natural

There's the definition of natural^

Homosexuality is 100% natural by definition, so don't bring up the idea that it's unnatural. The only legitimate argument against it now is that it's a mental disorder and all the homosexuals and scientists and doctors all over the world are part of some conspiracy.
Yei
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Posted 6/28/09 , edited 6/30/09
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sKWo3Q-UZ8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4oGKm8Upp8

Comedians always have the best ways of explaining serious political issues

Dennis Kucinich is great: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLa725owBUA
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Posted 7/1/09

Yei wrote:

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/natural

There's the definition of natural^

Homosexuality is 100% natural by definition, so don't bring up the idea that it's unnatural. The only legitimate argument against it now is that it's a mental disorder and all the homosexuals and scientists and doctors all over the world are part of some conspiracy.


Murder and incest are natural too.
Yei
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Posted 7/1/09

Sulla wrote:


Yei wrote:

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/natural

There's the definition of natural^

Homosexuality is 100% natural by definition, so don't bring up the idea that it's unnatural. The only legitimate argument against it now is that it's a mental disorder and all the homosexuals and scientists and doctors all over the world are part of some conspiracy.


Murder and incest are natural too.


That's nice. The only legitimate argument against it now is that it's a mental disorder and all the homosexuals and scientists and doctors all over the world are part of some conspiracy. That makes alot of sense.
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Posted 7/1/09

Yei wrote:


Yei wrote:

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/natural

There's the definition of natural^

Homosexuality is 100% natural by definition, so don't bring up the idea that it's unnatural. The only legitimate argument against it now is that it's a mental disorder and all the homosexuals and scientists and doctors all over the world are part of some conspiracy.




That's nice. The only legitimate argument against it now is that it's a mental disorder and all the homosexuals and scientists and doctors all over the world are part of some conspiracy. That makes alot of sense.


The other legitimate argument about it is that it males more effeminate males than being a mommas boy or adult on rape does.
Homosexuality also wrecks human pop growth

Yei
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Posted 7/1/09

Sulla wrote:


Yei wrote:


Yei wrote:

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/natural

There's the definition of natural^

Homosexuality is 100% natural by definition, so don't bring up the idea that it's unnatural. The only legitimate argument against it now is that it's a mental disorder and all the homosexuals and scientists and doctors all over the world are part of some conspiracy.




That's nice. The only legitimate argument against it now is that it's a mental disorder and all the homosexuals and scientists and doctors all over the world are part of some conspiracy. That makes alot of sense.


The other legitimate argument about it is that it males more effeminate males than being a mommas boy or adult on rape does.
Homosexuality also wrecks human pop growth



Yeah, and I heard it causes global warming too. What do you think we should do about this serious issue?
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Posted 7/1/09

Yei wrote:



Anyways, something that always confused me was that if Christianity and Islam were completely against homosexuality, how could there be Christian and Muslim gay activates? I thought the Bible and Quran both clearly said homosexuality was a sin and unacceptable, so how could there be Muslims and Christians saying it is acceptable?



I do apologize if someone already answered this question.
First thing i want to say is don't believe everything you hear in documentaries, news, or any media source.
Secondly, if you give a perfectly good ferrari to a noob driver, and he/she crashes it, whose fault is it; the ferrari or the driver?

this analogy of course referring to Religion and Believer. If the believer makes a mistake, you can't say the religion made the mistake.
I don't know about christianity, but in Islam homosexuality is strictly prohibited.

I want to mention when you hear prohibited/unlawful/HARAM, thats not say someone who commits those things is going to hell no questions asked. Everyone always has a chance!

back to the original point. If there are "gay muslims" and they are saying homosexuality is allowed in Islam, doesn't mean its allowed in Islam, it only means that they want it to be allowed in Islam, and they are trying to bring about unrest in society.

As humans muslims, and christians have the free will to say whatever they want, if they say something against the religion (or their holy scriptures) it doesn't make it true, and the same goes for something said in favor, doesn't have to be true.
Yei
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Posted 7/1/09

rizzyman wrote:


Yei wrote:



Anyways, something that always confused me was that if Christianity and Islam were completely against homosexuality, how could there be Christian and Muslim gay activates? I thought the Bible and Quran both clearly said homosexuality was a sin and unacceptable, so how could there be Muslims and Christians saying it is acceptable?



I do apologize if someone already answered this question.
First thing i want to say is don't believe everything you hear in documentaries, news, or any media source.
Secondly, if you give a perfectly good ferrari to a noob driver, and he/she crashes it, whose fault is it; the ferrari or the driver?

this analogy of course referring to Religion and Believer. If the believer makes a mistake, you can't say the religion made the mistake.
I don't know about christianity, but in Islam homosexuality is strictly prohibited.

I want to mention when you hear prohibited/unlawful/HARAM, thats not say someone who commits those things is going to hell no questions asked. Everyone always has a chance!

back to the original point. If there are "gay muslims" and they are saying homosexuality is allowed in Islam, doesn't mean its allowed in Islam, it only means that they want it to be allowed in Islam, and they are trying to bring about unrest in society.

As humans muslims, and christians have the free will to say whatever they want, if they say something against the religion (or their holy scriptures) it doesn't make it true, and the same goes for something said in favor, doesn't have to be true.


But the interpretation of scripture is subjective. I personally don't see anything that definitively condemns homosexuality in the Quran. So I don't think Islam does prohibit homosexuality, or anything else that's harmless and out of people's control.
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Posted 7/1/09

Yei wrote:


Sulla wrote:


Yei wrote:


Yei wrote:

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/natural

There's the definition of natural^

Homosexuality is 100% natural by definition, so don't bring up the idea that it's unnatural. The only legitimate argument against it now is that it's a mental disorder and all the homosexuals and scientists and doctors all over the world are part of some conspiracy.




That's nice. The only legitimate argument against it now is that it's a mental disorder and all the homosexuals and scientists and doctors all over the world are part of some conspiracy. That makes alot of sense.


The other legitimate argument about it is that it males more effeminate males than being a mommas boy or adult on rape does.
Homosexuality also wrecks human pop growth



Yeah, and I heard it causes global warming too. What do you think we should do about this serious issue?


this seems to have gone off topic...first of all murder is not a mental disorder, i don't know where that came from, now serial killing that definitely has mental issues involved. I'm not gona comment on whether or not its a "mental disorder" per say, but it definitely has issues involving brain development/structure.

Also, you can't say its unnatural, because the only meaning of that is that its "unnatural" by view of the societal norm.
But, you can't argue that its normal in any sense of the word, even though it has existed for countless years now, it has and will always remain an undisputed minority.
Yei
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Posted 7/1/09

rizzyman wrote:

this seems to have gone off topic...first of all murder is not a mental disorder, i don't know where that came from, now serial killing that definitely has mental issues involved. I'm not gona comment on whether or not its a "mental disorder" per say, but it definitely has issues involving brain development/structure.

Also, you can't say its unnatural, because the only meaning of that is that its "unnatural" by view of the societal norm.
But, you can't argue that its normal in any sense of the word, even though it has existed for countless years now, it has and will always remain an undisputed minority.


Normal? What does it matter if it's normal or not? And yes, you can't say it's unnatural because it is natural.

From science, we know it's not a choice or a disorder. That's it, according to all the leading scientists, doctors and psychologists in the world, homosexuality is not a choice, disorder and cannot be changed. And there's nothing wrong with two consenting people loving each other.
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Posted 7/1/09

Yei wrote:


rizzyman wrote:


Yei wrote:



Anyways, something that always confused me was that if Christianity and Islam were completely against homosexuality, how could there be Christian and Muslim gay activates? I thought the Bible and Quran both clearly said homosexuality was a sin and unacceptable, so how could there be Muslims and Christians saying it is acceptable?



I do apologize if someone already answered this question.
First thing i want to say is don't believe everything you hear in documentaries, news, or any media source.
Secondly, if you give a perfectly good ferrari to a noob driver, and he/she crashes it, whose fault is it; the ferrari or the driver?

this analogy of course referring to Religion and Believer. If the believer makes a mistake, you can't say the religion made the mistake.
I don't know about christianity, but in Islam homosexuality is strictly prohibited.

I want to mention when you hear prohibited/unlawful/HARAM, thats not say someone who commits those things is going to hell no questions asked. Everyone always has a chance!

back to the original point. If there are "gay muslims" and they are saying homosexuality is allowed in Islam, doesn't mean its allowed in Islam, it only means that they want it to be allowed in Islam, and they are trying to bring about unrest in society.

As humans muslims, and christians have the free will to say whatever they want, if they say something against the religion (or their holy scriptures) it doesn't make it true, and the same goes for something said in favor, doesn't have to be true.


But the interpretation of scripture is subjective. I personally don't see anything that definitively condemns homosexuality in the Quran. So I don't think Islam does prohibit homosexuality, or anything else that's harmless and out of people's control.


well in the end of the day, interpretation of all religious scriptures is subjective. But there still has to be an interpretation, and the ones doing it are the most knowledgeable of the time (or at least considered to be). You can't completely dismiss an argument and say the opposite must be true; its called argumentum ad ignorantiam, look it up. You have to bring both sides to question, and looking at the big picture; homosexuality in its entirety and Islam in its entirety, you can come to a logically conclusion.

Now keep in mind the logical conclusion will still be arguable, and in the end of the day, you cannot absolutely prove either side.
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