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What is the difference between a religion and a cult?
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Posted 10/22/09

digs wrote:


Darkphoenix3450 wrote:


digs wrote:


Swedie wrote:


digs wrote:

I cult usually revolves around one leader, they tend to be very extreme and highly extortional. Cults brainwash and usually (not all, but many) are directly against Christianity and in favor of satanic principals. Most cults have some form of magic or spiritual meditation.

And not all religion brainwashes children or uses threats of violence :\ I really don't see how hating of religion adds to the discussion of how they are different from cults. We could say all things try to brainwash children and all parents do. Kids aren't wise enough or mature enough to understand metaphysics and spiritual things, so their parents teach them what they believe. Kids are too young and naive (usually) to understand what religion and God really are, and to not instruct them on anything will only confuse them when they hear about God and other beliefs.


We can switch this all around you know
So you say a cult usually revolves around one leader
Well Christianity revolves around God
Christianity is a monotheistic, meaning one leader who is worship
Christians are brainwashed into thinking that anyone whose practice that does not follow their doctrine will all go to "hell".

Every religion brainwashes children, it's the level of brainwashing that is important. If you grew up in a strong Christian household then you are most likely to be religious at one point or another and have your values defined by what you have been taught. Values that God will be pleased with.

Personally I think children would be less confused if they didn't hear about God and other beliefs until they are older and want to belong to a religion. They won't be confused by whether or not they please this being that does or does not exist. The Bible is confusing enough with all the contradiction it has. Kids will just eat anything up if that pleases their parents, they just want the acceptance.


Christians aren't brainwashed. I am a Christian because I choose to be one, in fact before I was Christian I was atheist. Parent's raise their children with the knowledge of the Bible, just like how atheist parents tell their children there is no God. It's not brainwashing, it's education. And we aren't brainwashed into thinking anyone who isn't Christian goes to hell, we choose to believe it because it's in the Bible. This isn't intolerance, but truth for us, which is why we are to show Christ's love to the world. So they may see Christ in us and choose to be saved from hell and sin. The Bible teaches that we choose to go to hell, and that every provision has been made so that we can be forgiven from sin and go to heaven.

What is your definition of brainwashing? People do tend to have values based on how they are raised, is that wrong? Christians, Muslims, atheists, they all raise their kids with the values that they hold to be true. That isn't brainwashing, it's parenting.

I think kids should learn about God as children. If they have no instruction or beliefs then anyone can take control of them and give them impressions of God that either aren't true, or dangerous. Kids have questions like how the universe was created, if God exists, and so on. Parents should answer their questions with what is right. Kids aren't intellectuals, they go for what appeals to them. They aren't going to make rational decisions on their own, which is why parents parent.



So you do not put the fear of hell in there heads?
You do not tell the kids that only kids who believe in god go to heaven?
you do know when older people tell them things like that, it affects the kids, they learn to think of everything told to them as the truth.
That is why Kids believe in the easter Bunny, Santa, and the tooth fairy. Becouse there older people told them so.
So yes You are brain washing them, by telling them that hell is real and that heaven is the only place that will save you from that.
You are forcing your Ideals into little kids heads. This is Brainwashing.


Parents usually instill morals and an obedience to God in their heads. They tell them about hell, but it isn't to scare children.
And we don't tell them believing in God gets you into heaven, because even the demons believe and tremble (according to the Bible). We tell them you have to repent in Jesus name in order to be forgiven, and the forgiveness from sins is what gets us into heaven. Or rather, what removes us from being sent to hell because God wants us in heaven, we just can't get there if we have sin because sin cannot dwell in God's presence and must be judged.
May I apply the same thing to other parents? Do atheists not teach their kids that all religions are fictitious and that there is no God? Don't atheists tell their kids that we can't know what is right or wrong because there is no absolute set of morals? (not saying they don't teach them to do good and not do bad things like murder, stealing, etc...). By your definition, all parents brainwash their children into what they believe. All education is brainwashing if you want to call it that. Kids can make choices when they grow up, but parents instruct them according to what they believe is right, this is the essence of being a parent.



i actually wanted to quote all of u on this, but yea, brainwashing= learning. Use any definition you want, any form of learning/ education is brainwashing.
Brainwashing just has a negative connotation, so if we dont agree to it, it's brainwashing. If we like it, its called reform. Its all one in the same. Which is why i tend to stay away from using the word brainwashing in a negative sense. Everyone in the world is "indoctrinated" to some form of belief. And a belief in nothing or an indifferent belief is still a belief.peace over war
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Posted 10/22/09

Allhailodin wrote:


SeraphAlford wrote:


Allhailodin wrote:
Everything has flaws, nothing perfect exists, religion is no different.


Exactly my point, religion is no different. Why is it okay to teach children something that’s no different from religion, but if you’re teaching them religion, which is no different from the other thing, it’s suddenly brainwashing and forcing your views down the throat of a child? Why are you okay with teaching a child one thing, that’s no different from religion, but not religion, which is no different than the other thing?


I'd rather teach the kid factual information instead of fairy tales about things that might not exist.


But that same phrase can be used by any religious, philosophical, political, or scientific person. Your "facts" differ from other people's "Facts".

Even in the science community "facts" tend to sway from one guy to the next. Such as global warming, and hell, almost every reasearched subject has its critics and opposing scienctists.

btw, brainwashing=learning. We are all subjected to it, including yourself. Everything u know and learned, or relearned has been brainwashed into. You were brainwashed into learning the english language. U never had a choice...peace over war
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Posted 10/22/09

Darkphoenix3450 wrote:


xeereex wrote:

Actually, i don't belong to any religion, but if they believe in God, i really don't care at all if it's a cult or not.
It's their life.


A life they happen to be brainwashed into, so it might be there life, but its a life they had no choice in having.


everyone has a choice somewhere down the road. Death is always an easily accessed choice when others dont appear.

btw, brainwashing is synominous with learning. Its all the same philosophicaly. Though i do remember discussing a while back peace over war
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Posted 10/22/09

JJT2 wrote:


Darkphoenix3450 wrote:


xeereex wrote:

Actually, i don't belong to any religion, but if they believe in God, i really don't care at all if it's a cult or not.
It's their life.


A life they happen to be brainwashed into, so it might be there life, but its a life they had no choice in having.


everyone has a choice somewhere down the road. Death is always an easily accessed choice when others dont appear.

btw, brainwashing is synominous with learning. Its all the same philosophicaly. Though i do remember discussing a while back peace over war


And you been proven wrong. Brainwashing and learning are not the same thing.
wen someone is told something and threaten with something else if they do not believe it over and over again. Yet they show no evidences to back there claims. That is brainwashing not learning.
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Posted 10/22/09

JJT2 wrote:

But that same phrase can be used by any religious, philosophical, political, or scientific person. Your "facts" differ from other people's "Facts".


It is a fact that haldrons, baryons, quarks and leptons exist, it is not fact that a god or multiple gods exist, so it shouldn't be presented to the kid as an absolute fact. That's what I mean.


Even in the science community "facts" tend to sway from one guy to the next. Such as global warming, and hell, almost every reasearched subject has its critics and opposing scienctists.


Some things are facts to everyone, others are not, would you agree with my if I said, Protons, Neutrons, and electrons exist ? Or that that all stars produce energy and metals( astronomy metals is any element heavier than hydrogen, helium and sometimes lithium ) through nuclear fusion ? These things are fact, they have been proven. These are the things that should be presented as facts to children, not the possible existance of god / gods or angles or heaven and hell or whatever else fits in that category. Since they are not proven as fact, they should not be taught as fact.


btw, brainwashing=learning. We are all subjected to it, including yourself. Everything u know and learned, or relearned has been brainwashed into. You were brainwashed into learning the english language. U never had a choice...peace over war


Learning != Brainwashing. early man was not brainwashed into learning how to utilize fire, he learned it on his own. Problem solving and retaining that problem solving is not brainwashing. When a crow figures out how to smash open a walnut it couldn't open with its beak alone, by flying up rather high and dropping it, that's not brainwashing.

Anything you learn, you can replace with other information should you realize its incorrect. You can replace anything you've learned with new stuff if you desire. I taught myself almost everything I know, but I didn't brainwash myself, you can always override what you have learned with something else.
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Posted 10/22/09

Allhailodin wrote:


JJT2 wrote:

But that same phrase can be used by any religious, philosophical, political, or scientific person. Your "facts" differ from other people's "Facts".


It is a fact that haldrons, baryons, quarks and leptons exist, it is not fact that a god or multiple gods exist, so it shouldn't be presented to the kid as an absolute fact. That's what I mean.


Even in the science community "facts" tend to sway from one guy to the next. Such as global warming, and hell, almost every reasearched subject has its critics and opposing scienctists.


Some things are facts to everyone, others are not, would you agree with my if I said, Protons, Neutrons, and electrons exist ? Or that that all stars produce energy and metals( astronomy metals is any element heavier than hydrogen, helium and sometimes lithium ) through nuclear fusion ? These things are fact, they have been proven. These are the things that should be presented as facts to children, not the possible existance of god / gods or angles or heaven and hell or whatever else fits in that category. Since they are not proven as fact, they should not be taught as fact.


btw, brainwashing=learning. We are all subjected to it, including yourself. Everything u know and learned, or relearned has been brainwashed into. You were brainwashed into learning the english language. U never had a choice...peace over war


Learning != Brainwashing. early man was not brainwashed into learning how to utilize fire, he learned it on his own. Problem solving and retaining that problem solving is not brainwashing. When a crow figures out how to smash open a walnut it couldn't open with its beak alone, by flying up rather high and dropping it, that's not brainwashing.

Anything you learn, you can replace with other information should you realize its incorrect. You can replace anything you've learned with new stuff if you desire. I taught myself almost everything I know, but I didn't brainwash myself, you can always override what you have learned with something else.


Some things are facts to everyone, others are not, would you agree with my if I said, Protons, Neutrons, and electrons exist ? Or that that all stars produce energy and metals( astronomy metals is any element heavier than hydrogen, helium and sometimes lithium ) through nuclear fusion ? These things are fact, they have been proven. These are the things that should be presented as facts to children, not the possible existance of god / gods or angles or heaven and hell or whatever else fits in that category. Since they are not proven as fact, they should not be taught as fact.

logicaly speaking,most kids cant really understand niether of these concepts, nor are they interested in them. All im saying is that some things are fact to some people. Global warming caused by humans is a fact to some, Global warming caused by nature is a fact to others. Abortion rights is a fact to some, a myth to others. This entire disscussion goes far beyond god and religion, or political beliefs ,or ne type of learned knowledge or behavior. The world as we see it doesnt exists, so your facts are myths to others.

Universal "facts" do not exists. anyone in a country with no telescopes or advanced technology will deny the existence of protons,neutrons, and electrons. Because they cant detect them with thier 5 senses. Life and death are defined differently in different countries. In some countries in Africa, If u cant talk, you are considered dead and you are buried "alive".Some people believe the world is only 6000-10,000 yrs old. these are facts to them. There is no such thing as an objective fact in the human sense. We simply know to little and often disreguard what we don't know.

Anything you learn, you can replace with other information should you realize its incorrect. You can replace anything you've learned with new stuff if you desire. I taught myself almost everything I know, but I didn't brainwash myself, you can always override what you have learned with something else

isnt that the definition of brainwashing? replacing new info with old? ne way, either brainwashing= learning or it doesnt exists. All of this indoctrinaton is simply a means of learning, often replacing what isnt there to begin with. i could philosophicly argue how every form of learning replaces new info with old, and is thus brainwashing. I could add "forced" in there to. and im about to do this with dark phynix, who claims my thoery was disproven...by who....that remains to be seen peace over war
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Posted 10/22/09

Darkphoenix3450 wrote:


JJT2 wrote:


Darkphoenix3450 wrote:


xeereex wrote:

Actually, i don't belong to any religion, but if they believe in God, i really don't care at all if it's a cult or not.
It's their life.


A life they happen to be brainwashed into, so it might be there life, but its a life they had no choice in having.


everyone has a choice somewhere down the road. Death is always an easily accessed choice when others dont appear.

btw, brainwashing is synominous with learning. Its all the same philosophicaly. Though i do remember discussing a while back peace over war


And you been proven wrong. Brainwashing and learning are not the same thing.
wen someone is told something and threaten with something else if they do not believe it over and over again. Yet they show no evidences to back there claims. That is brainwashing not learning.


Then most forms of learning in our society is brainwashing then...Advertisenments, politics, religion, science, businesses,ect. all tell us something over and over and over again and threaten us with something if we dont believe them. Capatalism and other forms of government thrive on this concept.

"you by my product, and you wont be disappointed" -threat- if u dont by it u will be disappointed.

"Vote for me and not the other guy because he likes drugs" threat- voting for the other guy must mean im supporting illegal drugs

"do this or god will punish you" threat- i better do this or i will go ot hell

"This is not a scientific fact, your being illogical" -i better believe this thoery or they will call me names.

"work for me, and dont join unions because we feel u dont need to"threat- if i work for this guy, i better not join a worker union

All of these statements are presented over and over again and threaten us with subtle threats.

"Threatening" is also synominous with "force". Every form of learning forces something into your conscience that you werent aware of b4. You may feel "threantened" if u do otherwise,

"i better buy gas at this station because the price is low" the threat- i dont want to run out of gas or money.

either this thoery holds up or brainwashing doesnt exists. Because of the many definitions of brainwashing, all of them are ambiguous.
very few learning processes are done without the use of "force" or "threats".

One guy tried to use the "brainwashing controls emotions" defintion. But emotions are tied into force and threats. forcing you to do ne thing wouldnt mean much if u didnt have emotions to react to it. peace over war
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Posted 10/22/09 , edited 10/22/09

JJT2 wrote:

Some things are facts to everyone, others are not, would you agree with my if I said, Protons, Neutrons, and electrons exist ? Or that that all stars produce energy and metals( astronomy metals is any element heavier than hydrogen, helium and sometimes lithium ) through nuclear fusion ? These things are fact, they have been proven. These are the things that should be presented as facts to children, not the possible existance of god / gods or angles or heaven and hell or whatever else fits in that category. Since they are not proven as fact, they should not be taught as fact.

logicaly speaking,most kids cant really understand niether of these concepts, nor are they interested in them. All im saying is that some things are fact to some people. Global warming caused by humans is a fact to some, Global warming caused by nature is a fact to others. Abortion rights is a fact to some, a myth to others. This entire disscussion goes far beyond god and religion, or political beliefs ,or ne type of learned knowledge or behavior. The world as we see it doesnt exists, so your facts are myths to others.

Universal "facts" do not exists. anyone in a country with no telescopes or advanced technology will deny the existence of protons,neutrons, and electrons. Because they cant detect them with thier 5 senses. Life and death are defined differently in different countries. In some countries in Africa, If u cant talk, you are considered dead and you are buried "alive".Some people believe the world is only 6000-10,000 yrs old. these are facts to them. There is no such thing as an objective fact in the human sense. We simply know to little and often disreguard what we don't know.

Anything you learn, you can replace with other information should you realize its incorrect. You can replace anything you've learned with new stuff if you desire. I taught myself almost everything I know, but I didn't brainwash myself, you can always override what you have learned with something else

isnt that the definition of brainwashing? replacing new info with old? ne way, either brainwashing= learning or it doesnt exists. All of this indoctrinaton is simply a means of learning, often replacing what isnt there to begin with. i could philosophicly argue how every form of learning replaces new info with old, and is thus brainwashing. I could add "forced" in there to. and im about to do this with dark phynix, who claims my thoery was disproven...by who....that remains to be seen peace over war


Most people are really stupid animals, whether they believe something as fact or not, that cannot and does not change whether it is true or not, does believing in god make one exist, does not believing in god erase one or all of them from existance ? Does not believing in matter or evolution make it not exist ? No, it doesn't, it exists and continues to exist whether someone believes it or not. There are absolute facts, whether dumb individual 0 - 7 billion chooses to believe it or not, it doesn't chance the fact that these things exist, if not believing in something erased it from the universe, then there would be no universe at all since there are retards who believe existance does not exist.

Matter exists, cells exist, molecules exist, stars and nuclear fission / fusion exist, these things exist and will continue to exist whether or not, you or I or anyone else chooses to not believe in it. People who refuse to believe the stupidly obvious, don't really deserve the knowledge.

Learning is not brainwashing, as I said before, early man was not brainwashed into discovering how to control fire, he learned the natural way, through observation and trial and error(burning himself and learning not to stick his hand into the fire ). When a young kid grabs a hot burner on a stove and burns his hand, he isn't brainwashed into not doing it again, he learns not to do that again through trail and error. Of course some people are too stupid for that( not including people with learning disabilities or mental disabilities, some people are just really stupid, even a dog would learn faster than some people ), and will do it a second or third, fourth or even a fifth time before finally figuring out not to do that.

Brainwashing is really more of a externally forced overwrite. Not a natural ( done by you ) overwrite, or natural learning of new things.
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Posted 10/24/09
Well...they say religion is a cult that's been around for 1,000 years ^^ I sort of buy into that, meaning I consider the difference to be only a perspective one--the longer something is around, the more established it becomes and the more adherents it attracts. That kind of 'validation' is what separates accepted religions from cults for me.
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Posted 10/25/09
i think cults and religions r the same in some ways and i think the beliefs they pass on is a form of brain washing because humans all want power whether its political, religious, etc. anyway to keep the masses in line
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Posted 10/26/09

elementchild wrote:

Yeah there pretty much the same thing most cults however are more hardcore in the sense of you leaving them or believing other things than them but other then that there the same thing


..... o_o
Religion ask you to try to do things that better you. Cults force you to conform to a standard.
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Posted 10/26/09

fasju wrote:


elementchild wrote:

Yeah there pretty much the same thing most cults however are more hardcore in the sense of you leaving them or believing other things than them but other then that there the same thing


..... o_o
Religion ask you to try to do things that better you. Cults force you to conform to a standard.


If you don't conform to God's will, you will go to hell.

Sounds like every dictatorship known to mankind.
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Posted 10/26/09
Ur choice. If u dont believe in Hell y are u worried about it? If im speaking from most atheist point of view, their mad because we have a place to go when we die and we think they ll go to the other place. And this makes u mad because....?
Posted 10/27/09
Cults are hidden and not mainstream.
Posted 10/27/09 , edited 10/27/09
I find them to be both equally depressing 'cause I can sleep through both of them. And no, I do not look forward to see a religion based on cycling class or any other form of exercise. When there's already stuff like the P90X Challenge and fitness guru like Richard Simmons.

Why oh why can't I just get on with my life through my own cause and purpose, without those cults and religious groups keep interjecting theirs?
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