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Obama...... anti-Semite?
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Posted 6/15/09

azera wrote:

Its a all out war between Israel and US. I wonder if their relationship can stay long.

What if US suddenly break ties with Israel? What will be the outcome? And Israel will be on heir own, they will get bullied by Iran, Hamas and Hezbollah. Nuke missles will likely to fly around, and many lives will be vanished instantly.


You seriously believe Israel with her advance weaponry would actually get buillied by Iran who lacks an air force? Iran would be stupid if they attacked Israel thats very suicidal. israel can wipe that country out in two seconds. The only nuke missles that will be flying around will come from Israel because they are the only ones with it in that region.
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Posted 6/15/09

Yei wrote:

I'm talking about the pre-1967 borders 2-state plan, the one that requires Israel to start following the law. I don't think Israel ever accepted that plan, seeing how they always rejected it in every UN General Assembly vote and went on building illegal settlements. The whole world has been voting in favor of this obvious solution for about 40 years except for Israel and the US (and now a small handful of countries no one has ever heard of).

So yes, the whole world has been wanting it to happen for about 40 years, and Israel has always been rejecting it.

And I blame the Palestinians for not following Gandhi's example.


Actually they did attempt to comply but the conditions they placed on their participation (Israel must be acknowledge and a long lasting peace must be mutually acknowledged,) were deemed unacceptable. The Palestinians are to blame for rejecting the two state plan long before the Israelites did. Why it’s okay for the Palestinians to kill Jews, attempt to take Jewish land, ignore international law, make zero concessions to peace, and deny the two state plan but not for the Israelites I’ll never know. But then, this is coming from somebody who thinks Norman Finkelstein is fair, honest, and balanced so I can’t expect much else.
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Posted 6/15/09

drizza wrote:


azera wrote:

Its a all out war between Israel and US. I wonder if their relationship can stay long.

What if US suddenly break ties with Israel? What will be the outcome? And Israel will be on heir own, they will get bullied by Iran, Hamas and Hezbollah. Nuke missles will likely to fly around, and many lives will be vanished instantly.


You seriously believe Israel with her advance weaponry would actually get buillied by Iran who lacks an air force? Iran would be stupid if they attacked Israel thats very suicidal. israel can wipe that country out in two seconds. The only nuke missles that will be flying around will come from Israel because they are the only ones with it in that region.


Israel would not be able to maintain its military standard without the support of the United States.
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Posted 6/15/09

SeraphAlford wrote:


drizza wrote:


azera wrote:

Its a all out war between Israel and US. I wonder if their relationship can stay long.

What if US suddenly break ties with Israel? What will be the outcome? And Israel will be on heir own, they will get bullied by Iran, Hamas and Hezbollah. Nuke missles will likely to fly around, and many lives will be vanished instantly.


You seriously believe Israel with her advance weaponry would actually get buillied by Iran who lacks an air force? Iran would be stupid if they attacked Israel thats very suicidal. israel can wipe that country out in two seconds. The only nuke missles that will be flying around will come from Israel because they are the only ones with it in that region.


Israel would not be able to maintain its military standard without the support of the United States.


I dont believe that but anyways you purpose we continusously baby sit that nation for the rest of our lives?
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Posted 6/15/09

drizza wrote:
I dont believe that but anyways you purpose we continusously baby sit that nation for the rest of our lives?


Why shouldn’t we? We’re babysitting the rest of the world, including Palestine even though the current humanitarian aid crises in Palestine was brought upon the Palestinians BY Palestine.
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Posted 6/15/09

SeraphAlford wrote:


drizza wrote:
I dont believe that but anyways you purpose we continusously baby sit that nation for the rest of our lives?


Why shouldn’t we? We’re babysitting the rest of the world, including Palestine even though the current humanitarian aid crises in Palestine was brought upon the Palestinians BY Palestine.


Lol I disagree with your last sentence as well but yeah you are right we are pretty much babysitting other countries by leaving our permanent bases there. I really dont see the point to this as it is costing us too mcuh money they act as if we have a strong dollar followed by a robust economy.
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Posted 6/15/09
What isn't right is that we give so much aid and protect so many people... only so they can criticize the US as "evil" and the cause of all the worlds problems. We gave the most aid to Africa under Bush, we are one of the world's (if not the largest) aid contributer. It's just not right, but we should help people because we want them to like us... it would just be nice to have some appreciation :(

And I don't think Obama is anti-Semitic. I think he says things to please whatever audience he has. He said pro-Israel stuff in Israel, and didn't mention that in Cairo and talked mainly negatively about them. Btw, Netanyahu just announced that he supports a two state solution I hope this brings peace.
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Posted 6/15/09 , edited 6/15/09

drizza wrote:

Lol I disagree with your last sentence as well but yeah you are right we are pretty much babysitting other countries by leaving our permanent bases there. I really dont see the point to this as it is costing us too mcuh money they act as if we have a strong dollar followed by a robust economy.


Forget our bases in foreign countries; we’re still the number one contributor to foreign aid and humanitarian aid across the globe. We’re also everyone’s military safety net; and who do you think is drained the most by the bank international? The United States. We babysit the whole world, and how do they repay us? England spends released propaganda against us. The entire European Union as well as our Asian trade partners and the common wealth states subject us to unbalanced rates with their tariffs on our goods, which are much higher than the tariffs we put on their good. The entire world takes us for granted and thinks our charity is an obligation that we owe to them. I don’t know where they got this sense of entitlement, but it’s frustrating.
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Posted 6/15/09

drizza wrote:


azera wrote:

Its a all out war between Israel and US. I wonder if their relationship can stay long.

What if US suddenly break ties with Israel? What will be the outcome? And Israel will be on heir own, they will get bullied by Iran, Hamas and Hezbollah. Nuke missles will likely to fly around, and many lives will be vanished instantly.


You seriously believe Israel with her advance weaponry would actually get buillied by Iran who lacks an air force? Iran would be stupid if they attacked Israel thats very suicidal. israel can wipe that country out in two seconds. The only nuke missles that will be flying around will come from Israel because they are the only ones with it in that region.


Wait Iran doesnt have any nuke missles? There must be a couple of them hidden somewhere in the country where even the US intelligence agencies could not notice it. I'm doubt that world war 3 can happen anytime soon in the mid east. Obama is sure full of stress now, he has to handle Israel relationship with care or else the Israel will do it own their own.
Yei
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Posted 6/15/09 , edited 6/15/09

SeraphAlford wrote:


Yei wrote:
They want peace and a fair solution to this conflict, supporting Hamas doesn't make someone an anti-Semite.


I wasn’t actually talking about Hamas, but if you read the Hamas charter you will see that they have no interest in peace. If you take a trip over to PMW and view some of their political campaign ads and the television broadcasts on their official station you’d see how untrue what you just said is. Need I remind you that they’re costing the Palestinian people literally billions of dollars in Humanitarian aid because they refuse to amend their charter so that it does not call for the genocide of the Jews?


As far as the two state plan; they tell us that they’re interested in the two-state plan but back behind the scenes they tell another story to their supporters. They tell the Palestinians that they will conquer all of Israel and force all of the Jews out of the middle east.


Oh, so they're lying about wanting the 2-state plan, and instead they're going to literally try to run the Jews out? I think Hamas leaders a long time ago actually started thinking.



His exact words: “I was of course happy to meet the Hizbullah…I do want to express solidarity with them, and I’m not going to be a coward about it.”

Let's get this cleared up: Solidarity: mutual agreement and support
Encarta ® World English Dictionary © & (P) 1998-2005 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

Hezbollah

So he agrees with the Hezbollah and supports them. The Hezbollah says that the Jews, not Israel, not Zionists, the Jews intentionally created HIV in the Middle East and infected Muslims and Arabs.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/12/12/international/europe/12france.html?_r=1

Norman expresses his full solidarity, Norman agrees.

They aired television programs saying that the Jews were trying to take over the world and violent action should be taken to prevent them from attaining dominance.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F02E7DE1031F93AA35751C1A9629C8B63

Norman agrees, and supports this violent action.

Hezbollah used what was supposed to be educational material to teach five year old to be anti-Semites:

http://www.iheu.org/node/2390

http://www.wiesenthal.com/site/pp.asp?c=lsKWLbPJLnF&b=4441251

Norman is completely okay with this, in fact he agrees with their method and supports their opinion.


He's not a coward, he's an anti-Semite who doesn't consider himeslf a member of the Jewish people but simply uses his heredity as a crutch to manipulate simple minded people who think that it's impossible for somebody with an ounce of Jewish blood in them to be an anti-Semite even though HItler was half-Jewish.



Here's what he said:


I was of course happy to meet the Hizbullah people, because it is a point of view that is rarely heard in the United States. I have no problem saying that I do want to express solidarity with them, and I am not going to be a coward of a hypocrite about it. I don’t care about Hizbullah as a political organization. I don’t know much about their politics, and anyhow, it’s irrelevant. I don’t live in Lebanon. It’s a choice that the Lebanese have to make: Who they want to be their leaders, who they want to represent them. But there is a fundamental principle. People have the right to defend their country from foreign occupiers, and people have the right to defend their country from invaders who are destroying their country. That to me is a very basic, elementary and uncomplicated question

My parents went through World War II. Now, Stalin’s regime was not exactly a bed of roses. It was a ruthless and brutal regime, and many people perished. But who didn’t support the Soviet Union when they defeated the Nazis? Who didn’t support the Red Army? In all the countries of Europe which were occupied – who gets all the honors? The resistance. The Communist resistance – it was brutal, it was ruthless. The Communists were not… It wasn’t a bed of roses, but you respect them. You respect them because they resisted the foreign occupiers of their country. If I am going to honor the Communists during World War II, even through I probably would not have done very well under their regimes… If I’m going to honor them, I am going to honor the Hizbullah. They show courage, and they show discipline. I respect that..


He respects the fact that they are brave enough to defend themselves. Regardless of their political or religious views, I think you should try to understand Norman's mature and considerate mentality about these things. He's not saying he hates Jews and that he supports everything Hezbollah has ever done and everything they believe.
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Posted 6/15/09
lol people and their outlandish claims. even if two countries are close allies, they can't agree on everything. just because the leader of one country disagrees on a few points with the other country, it doesn't make him a hater. people have their own opinions on things. i personally agree with obama's stance, but i am in no way anti-semitic. however i really doubt it will happen soon. maybe after a few more civil wars the situation might "improve".
Yei
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Posted 6/15/09 , edited 6/15/09

SeraphAlford wrote:


Yei wrote:

I'm talking about the pre-1967 borders 2-state plan, the one that requires Israel to start following the law. I don't think Israel ever accepted that plan, seeing how they always rejected it in every UN General Assembly vote and went on building illegal settlements. The whole world has been voting in favor of this obvious solution for about 40 years except for Israel and the US (and now a small handful of countries no one has ever heard of).

So yes, the whole world has been wanting it to happen for about 40 years, and Israel has always been rejecting it.

And I blame the Palestinians for not following Gandhi's example.


Actually they did attempt to comply but the conditions they placed on their participation (Israel must be acknowledge and a long lasting peace must be mutually acknowledged,) were deemed unacceptable. The Palestinians are to blame for rejecting the two state plan long before the Israelites did. Why it’s okay for the Palestinians to kill Jews, attempt to take Jewish land, ignore international law, make zero concessions to peace, and deny the two state plan but not for the Israelites I’ll never know. But then, this is coming from somebody who thinks Norman Finkelstein is fair, honest, and balanced so I can’t expect much else.


There was a point when Israel didn't vote no on the plan in the General Assembly, stopped all the settlements and was willing to follow the UN's original plan? When was that? And no one said the Palestinians actions were all ok, that's pretty obvious.
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Posted 6/15/09 , edited 6/15/09

Yei wrote:
Oh, so they're lying about wanting the 2-state plan, and instead they're going to literally try to run the Jews out? I think Hamas leaders a long time ago actually started thinking.


The Hamas charter, ratified in 1988, sets forth the organization’s ideology that clearly states: “Israel will remain erect until Islam eliminates it.” Not, “Islam forces it to accept the pre-1967 borders,” but “eliminates it.” It also states, “The…peaceful solutions…are all contrary to the beliefs of the Islamic Resistance Movement,” AKA-Hamas. “There is no solution to the Palestinian problems except by holy war.”

Maybe they have gotten smarter...but wait, when the UN asked them to amend their charter so that it doesn't demand war or call for the execution of Jews (I left the parts we all know about, the ones that cite those out of context sura, out. Those call for genocide of the Jews,) they refused, even after this caused the UN and Us to cut massive sums of humanitarian aid to Palestine for fear that it'd wind up in Hamas' hands.



He respects the fact that they are brave enough to defend themselves. Regardless of their political or religious views, I think you should try to understand Norman's mature and considerate mentality about these things. He's not saying he hates Jews and that he supports everything Hezbollah has ever done and everything they believe.


I understand him just fine. You’re the one who seems to be sugar coating. Basically he said:

I support and agree with Hezbollah. I do not know or care what exactly they want to do, but regardless I agree with them because Israel is the aggressor.

In other words, he’s saying that even if they want to eradicate the Jews they’re still the good guys and he still supports them because Israel, the Jews, are the instigators and Hezbollah can rise against instigators by any means necessary and to any end imaginable and he’d still support them, he doesn’t care, Israel’s the bad guy.

Which is really a lot of what you see among Israel’s opposition. It’s okay for the terrorists to break international law, it’s okay for Hamas to break international law, but not Israel. It’s all Israel’s fault even though no other nation has made as many concessions to peace as Israel.
Yei
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Posted 6/15/09

SeraphAlford wrote:

The Hamas charter, ratified in 1988, sets forth the organization’s ideology that clearly states: “Israel will remain erect until Islam eliminates it.” Not, “Islam forces it to accept the pre-1967 borders,” but “eliminates it.” It also states, “The…peaceful solutions…are all contrary to the beliefs of the Islamic Resistance Movement,” AKA-Hamas. “There is no solution to the Palestinian problems except by holy war.”

Maybe they have gotten smarter...but wait, when the UN asked them to amend their charter so that it doesn't demand war or call for the execution of Jews (I left the parts we all know about, the ones that cite those out of context sura, out. Those call for genocide of the Jews,) they refused, even after this caused the UN and Us to cut massive sums of humanitarian aid to Palestine for fear that it'd wind up in Hamas' hands.


And when did the UN ask them to do that?




No, what he said was that he doesn’t care how they feel or what they want to do the Jews, because regardless of their terrorism they’re still the good guys because the Jews are the instigators and are therefore bringing it on themselves. Again, I support Hizbullah, I agree with Hizbullah, but I don’t know or care what they’re politics are: translation, even if they want to murder all the Jews they’re still the good guys because the Jews are the aggressors.


I thought what he said was pretty clear:



He respects them for their courage and discipline. Very simple. I don't see anything in there along the lines of "they're the good guys cause the Jews are the aggressors."
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Posted 6/15/09 , edited 6/15/09

Yei wrote:
And when did the UN ask them to do that?


Meant US, sorry. But, the US isn't alone. It's all the heavy hitters of the UN, though I don't know if the UN has released an official request. I can’t help but notice you didn’t address the rest of the post. Does that mean that you’re conceding that Hamas doesn’t want peace or that you’re refusing to accept that even though you don’t have a counter argument?


He respects them for their courage and discipline. Very simple. I don't see anything in there along the lines of "they're the good guys cause the Jews are the aggressors."


Then you're not looking.
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