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Brainwashing kids
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Posted 6/18/09 , edited 6/18/09

Yei wrote:


drizza wrote:


Yei wrote:


drizza wrote:

Is it really only muslims and christians who dont believe in homosexuality? Really now a lot of asain countries do not allow homosexal marriages and Indian, African, the list goes on so lets not just single out these two groups as the main driving factor around the world. I agree with Digs we are suppose to instruct them to what is right and wrong. My parents coming up was not in support of homosexuality but never told me that I need to kill them as well. They already taught me what my religion says about it and in the Quran and probably in the bible it doesnt tell us to go out and hunt these people down. Everyone hates something in this world it is the individual who decides on how far this hate goes.


I was talking about the Muslims and Christians who are taught homosexuals need to be killed. That's very different from just "not believing in homosexuality" (whatever that means lol), they are taught that God and their religion says it's right to kill people because they are gay.


I was speaking in general but when I said believing in it I chose the wrong choice of words. I should have said agreed with. I havent came across any muslim so far who are taught this and it cant be taught in Islam becaise the Quran doesnt say it. Some countries like the many in Africa such as Kenya, Ethiopia etc kill them.


Yeah but people get alot of guidance from Hadiths as well:




I can see where alot of Muslims might get the idea that homosexuals should be dealt with so harshly:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9OvVd3VH3f4

Parents could easily be teaching their kids this stuff.



Sigh I dealt with Hadiths too much and I have told Seraph there are fake hadiths. Such as the Hadith with the (insert # here) virgins myth. The west only picks up on those Hadiths to further make arabs and muslims look bad so we can have a permenant stay in the middle east. This is another topic so I wont go into much detail.

Now that link you sent me I dont know what your trying to prove. Yes some people who are muslim go to extremes with homosexuality but what about people in Africa? As stated I spoken with many Africans who tell me how the their country is religious it is legal to kill homosexuals. Untill you can actually pull quotes from the Quran rather then Hadiths that can be made up then you will have a point. If you cant quote the holy books where we learn from then I dont care what some other outside source says because thats our source. People need to learn how to seperate culture from religion. Because like I stated the countries that doesnt allow gay marriages is it because of culture or religion? The whole world isnt christian and muslim you konw.
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Posted 6/18/09

drizza wrote:

Sigh I dealt with Hadiths too much and I have told Seraph there are fake hadiths. Such as the Hadith with the (insert # here) virgins myth. The west only picks up on those Hadiths to further make arabs and muslims look bad so we can have a permenant stay in the middle east. This is another topic so I wont go into much detail.

Now that link you sent me I dont know what your trying to prove. Yes some people who are muslim go to extremes with homosexuality but what about people in Africa? As stated I spoken with many Africans who tell me how the their country is religious it is legal to kill homosexuals. Untill you can actually pull quotes from the Quran rather then Hadiths that can be made up then you will have a point. If you cant quote the holy books where we learn from then I dont care what some other outside source says because thats our source. People need to learn how to seperate culture from religion. Because like I stated the countries that doesnt allow gay marriages is it because of culture or religion? The whole world isnt christian and muslim you konw.


Iran, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, United Arab Emirates, Sudan, Nigeria, Mauritania - all give the death penalty for homosexuals. The point is, there are people in my school that believe gays should be stoned to death, burned or thrown off buildings, because of what some hadiths and scholars say. I'm not saying anything about Islam at all, like I said before, homosexually is probably alot more acceptable in Islam than Christianity. I'm talking about teaching kids this stuff, not culturally, but religiously. Saying that this is what is what God wants goes far beyond just being homophobic, and these kinds of extremist ideologies are very similar to what this girl was taught.
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Posted 6/18/09 , edited 6/18/09
Well then they are extremists and that's their laws in their country. Keyword you mention "some" but when you mention religion then you talking about all people associated with it. What I am saying to you is how can a parent say God says to do this when they cant find it in the Quran? You have to have proof he says it right? I mentioned this 1000x no matter what religion you are people are going to do what they want to do no human is perfect. There will never be a religion where everyone who follows it is holier then thou never ever. Christianity didnt tell America to deny women rights and make them fight for it. That was their culture this is the same with these arab countries. I dont know why they treat their peers like this many muslims in the west dont agree with it as well but whatever. My dad stays overseas and he is saying the people are trying to make a change. Even the arabs in the country dont agree with their government. Hell I dont agree with the majority of the shit my government does but what can I do?

If she was taught these extreme measures then yes she needs to be removed from her parents they are teaching her hate. There are a lot of things that we dont like but to take an innocent life is a crime in any religion.
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Posted 6/18/09

Yei wrote:
Children shouldn't even be exposed to any serious views on anything until they're old enough to understand them. It's a serious problem when 7 year olds are saying they're Muslim or Christian if they can't even read the Quran or Bible yet.


So when a 3 year old asks their parents how did the world come into existence, what are they supposed to tell them? When that 3 year old sees their parents praying or going to church or doing other religious activities, what are they supposed to tell them? If that 3 year old sees something about Scientology on TV and decides that they are a Scientologist, and their family doesn't approve of Scientology and wants that child to grow up and be a part of their religion, what are they supposed to tell them?
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Posted 6/18/09 , edited 6/18/09

Cuddlebuns wrote:


Yei wrote:
Children shouldn't even be exposed to any serious views on anything until they're old enough to understand them. It's a serious problem when 7 year olds are saying they're Muslim or Christian if they can't even read the Quran or Bible yet.


So when a 3 year old asks their parents how did the world come into existence, what are they supposed to tell them? When that 3 year old sees their parents praying or going to church or doing other religious activities, what are they supposed to tell them? If that 3 year old sees something about Scientology on TV and decides that they are a Scientologist, and their family doesn't approve of Scientology and wants that child to grow up and be a part of their religion, what are they supposed to tell them?


I don't think a 3 year old would do any of that, they'd be too busy being 3 years old. If they're raised surrounded in religion, like going to Church and praying, that's just normal cultural stuff. But when you're 7 and you say you've been saved and are born again, that's where there's a problem. Children shouldn't be brainwashed from 3 to have set opinions on abortion, politics, science, deep and serious religious beliefs, etc. Not when they're three, wait until they're old enough to actually understand what those things are.
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Posted 6/18/09

Yei wrote:


Cuddlebuns wrote:


Yei wrote:
Children shouldn't even be exposed to any serious views on anything until they're old enough to understand them. It's a serious problem when 7 year olds are saying they're Muslim or Christian if they can't even read the Quran or Bible yet.


So when a 3 year old asks their parents how did the world come into existence, what are they supposed to tell them? When that 3 year old sees their parents praying or going to church or doing other religious activities, what are they supposed to tell them? If that 3 year old sees something about Scientology on TV and decides that they are a Scientologist, and their family doesn't approve of Scientology and wants that child to grow up and be a part of their religion, what are they supposed to tell them?


I don't think a 3 year old would do any of that, they'd be too busy being 3 years old. If they're raised surrounded in religion, like going to Church and praying, that's just normal cultural stuff. But when you're 7 and you say you've been saved and are born again, that's where there's a problem. Children shouldn't be brainwashed from 3 to have set opinions on abortion, politics, science, deep and serious religious beliefs, etc. Not when they're three, wait until they're old enough to actually understand what those things are.


Maybe 3 is a bit early, I'm no child development expert, but what if a 7 or 8 or 9 year old asks those things? When is a child old enough to understand those things?
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Posted 6/19/09 , edited 6/19/09

Cuddlebuns wrote:


Yei wrote:


Cuddlebuns wrote:


Yei wrote:
Children shouldn't even be exposed to any serious views on anything until they're old enough to understand them. It's a serious problem when 7 year olds are saying they're Muslim or Christian if they can't even read the Quran or Bible yet.


So when a 3 year old asks their parents how did the world come into existence, what are they supposed to tell them? When that 3 year old sees their parents praying or going to church or doing other religious activities, what are they supposed to tell them? If that 3 year old sees something about Scientology on TV and decides that they are a Scientologist, and their family doesn't approve of Scientology and wants that child to grow up and be a part of their religion, what are they supposed to tell them?


I don't think a 3 year old would do any of that, they'd be too busy being 3 years old. If they're raised surrounded in religion, like going to Church and praying, that's just normal cultural stuff. But when you're 7 and you say you've been saved and are born again, that's where there's a problem. Children shouldn't be brainwashed from 3 to have set opinions on abortion, politics, science, deep and serious religious beliefs, etc. Not when they're three, wait until they're old enough to actually understand what those things are.


Maybe 3 is a bit early, I'm no child development expert, but what if a 7 or 8 or 9 year old asks those things? When is a child old enough to understand those things?


I'd say when they're around 13 or 14. Knowing about your religion and being an observant Christian or Muslim when you're younger is fine, it's something cultural, but I'm talking about when they start saying they're born again or they've already become extremists at 8.
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Posted 6/19/09 , edited 6/19/09

Yei wrote:


Cuddlebuns wrote:


Yei wrote:


Cuddlebuns wrote:


Yei wrote:
Children shouldn't even be exposed to any serious views on anything until they're old enough to understand them. It's a serious problem when 7 year olds are saying they're Muslim or Christian if they can't even read the Quran or Bible yet.


So when a 3 year old asks their parents how did the world come into existence, what are they supposed to tell them? When that 3 year old sees their parents praying or going to church or doing other religious activities, what are they supposed to tell them? If that 3 year old sees something about Scientology on TV and decides that they are a Scientologist, and their family doesn't approve of Scientology and wants that child to grow up and be a part of their religion, what are they supposed to tell them?


I don't think a 3 year old would do any of that, they'd be too busy being 3 years old. If they're raised surrounded in religion, like going to Church and praying, that's just normal cultural stuff. But when you're 7 and you say you've been saved and are born again, that's where there's a problem. Children shouldn't be brainwashed from 3 to have set opinions on abortion, politics, science, deep and serious religious beliefs, etc. Not when they're three, wait until they're old enough to actually understand what those things are.


Maybe 3 is a bit early, I'm no child development expert, but what if a 7 or 8 or 9 year old asks those things? When is a child old enough to understand those things?


I'd say when they're around 13 or 14. Knowing about your religion and being an observant Christian or Muslim when you're younger is fine, it's something cultural, but I'm talking about when they start saying they're born again or they've already become extremists at 8.


Absolutely nothing wrong with teaching a child about your religion and about God at a young age what damage can it possible do? If one truly practices religion the correct way you will find them to be the most peaceful and sincere people you ever met in your life. I been taught about my religion ever since I was young. I went to the mosque with my parents and they read the Quran with me. At age six someone can ask me what religion I am and I would tell them I am muslim. That age I couldnt understand the Quran myself but I knew at least there was a God. What is the danger of that? Also at young ages you really dont see kids going around talking bad about homosexuality or trying to convert. We are too busy playing and most of us at a young age dont even take religion that seriously so how can they become extremists? Our brains wouldnt allow us to be. In order for a child to have sincere hate for something the parents as you said on the title thread have to do some periodic brainwashing to the childs head

If I have kids you better believe it they will go to the mosque with me and know what their religion is. When they become adults they can choose whatever they want to be.
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Posted 6/20/09 , edited 6/20/09

drizza wrote:
Absolutely nothing wrong with teaching a child about your religion and about God at a young age what damage can it possible do? If one truly practices religion the correct way you will find them to be the most peaceful and sincere people you ever met in your life. I been taught about my religion ever since I was young. I went to the mosque with my parents and they read the Quran with me. At age six someone can ask me what religion I am and I would tell them I am muslim. That age I couldnt understand the Quran myself but I knew at least there was a God. What is the danger of that? Also at young ages you really dont see kids going around talking bad about homosexuality or trying to convert. We are too busy playing and most of us at a young age dont even take religion that seriously so how can they become extremists? Our brains wouldnt allow us to be. In order for a child to have sincere hate for something the parents as you said on the title thread have to do some periodic brainwashing to the childs head

If I have kids you better believe it they will go to the mosque with me and know what their religion is. When they become adults they can choose whatever they want to be.


There's nothing wrong with the regular "observant" religious practices and teachings, it's nothing serious and just cultural. But if does get serious, young people can very easily become extremists, like this girl did, like those young children in Palestine, like kids who are taught to fight the non-believers or that gays should be stoned. The problem is not everyone is taught the right and peaceful version of the religion and when they grow up these ideas would most-likely stick.
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Posted 6/20/09

Yei wrote:


drizza wrote:
Absolutely nothing wrong with teaching a child about your religion and about God at a young age what damage can it possible do? If one truly practices religion the correct way you will find them to be the most peaceful and sincere people you ever met in your life. I been taught about my religion ever since I was young. I went to the mosque with my parents and they read the Quran with me. At age six someone can ask me what religion I am and I would tell them I am muslim. That age I couldnt understand the Quran myself but I knew at least there was a God. What is the danger of that? Also at young ages you really dont see kids going around talking bad about homosexuality or trying to convert. We are too busy playing and most of us at a young age dont even take religion that seriously so how can they become extremists? Our brains wouldnt allow us to be. In order for a child to have sincere hate for something the parents as you said on the title thread have to do some periodic brainwashing to the childs head

If I have kids you better believe it they will go to the mosque with me and know what their religion is. When they become adults they can choose whatever they want to be.


There's nothing wrong with the regular "observant" religious practices and teachings, it's nothing serious and just cultural. But if does get serious, young people can very easily become extremists, like this girl did, like those young children in Palestine, like kids who are taught to fight the non-believers or that gays should be stoned. The problem is not everyone is taught the right and peaceful version of the religion and when they grow up these ideas would most-likely stick.


Well you do have a point. You see the arab culture and American culture is different. So by saying that if I was born somewhere in the middle east I would have an extreme view of homosexuals regardless if I was a muslim/christian because thats how they treat those people. Now a muslim born in the US wouldnt take it that far to killing them becuase you dont too much here about any crimes done to homosexuals. Not saying they are all perfect but it is very very small in America. Culture tends to overlap over religion a lot so thats why I cant say just because we see the arabs in the middle east treat homosexuals this way or brainwash their kids it is a part of Islam. There are muslims all over the world who adjust to their countries culture.
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Posted 6/20/09

drizza wrote:


Yei wrote:


drizza wrote:
Absolutely nothing wrong with teaching a child about your religion and about God at a young age what damage can it possible do? If one truly practices religion the correct way you will find them to be the most peaceful and sincere people you ever met in your life. I been taught about my religion ever since I was young. I went to the mosque with my parents and they read the Quran with me. At age six someone can ask me what religion I am and I would tell them I am muslim. That age I couldnt understand the Quran myself but I knew at least there was a God. What is the danger of that? Also at young ages you really dont see kids going around talking bad about homosexuality or trying to convert. We are too busy playing and most of us at a young age dont even take religion that seriously so how can they become extremists? Our brains wouldnt allow us to be. In order for a child to have sincere hate for something the parents as you said on the title thread have to do some periodic brainwashing to the childs head

If I have kids you better believe it they will go to the mosque with me and know what their religion is. When they become adults they can choose whatever they want to be.


There's nothing wrong with the regular "observant" religious practices and teachings, it's nothing serious and just cultural. But if does get serious, young people can very easily become extremists, like this girl did, like those young children in Palestine, like kids who are taught to fight the non-believers or that gays should be stoned. The problem is not everyone is taught the right and peaceful version of the religion and when they grow up these ideas would most-likely stick.


Well you do have a point. You see the arab culture and American culture is different. So by saying that if I was born somewhere in the middle east I would have an extreme view of homosexuals regardless if I was a muslim/christian because thats how they treat those people. Now a muslim born in the US wouldnt take it that far to killing them becuase you dont too much here about any crimes done to homosexuals. Not saying they are all perfect but it is very very small in America. Culture tends to overlap over religion a lot so thats why I cant say just because we see the arabs in the middle east treat homosexuals this way or brainwash their kids it is a part of Islam. There are muslims all over the world who adjust to their countries culture.


Yeah, but many people in American and Canadian cultures still have extremist views. Their own culture is a big part of it, but you can easily figure out what part of the religion they think they're trying to follow. A regular Muslim here in this culture could very easily believe that homosexuals need to be stoned or thrown from a very high point, simply from what alot of Muslim scholars say. So it is a legitimate and logical part of Islam to them.
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Posted 6/20/09
Well one thing about Islam is there is no spoke person for our religion and I never heard a muslim scholar preach this. Maybe you will find some in the middle east but like I stated it is due more to culture then religion. I mentioned Africa and I will do it again I have some friends from Africa with very strong views of homosexuals. In their country gays are killed and it is legal and/or arrested. So like I said culture has more to do with this then religion. To me it seems like whatever happens in the middle east we just blame religion but we dont do this to any other country around the world.
Posted 6/21/09 , edited 6/21/09
I agree with you completely... Until the last sentence at least. I don't feel they are wrong as such, but I understand why you're saying it's wrong. They should be targeting other brainwashing as well - but when religion is involved it would be very tough. Religious groups/beliefs are widespread, and some would be in quite high numbers. I suspect they're afraid of the consequences of taking a child away from a family based on their brainwashing/religious views being forced upon the child.

Or at least, they wouldn't want it public.

More importantly, anyone who writes that over their kid - as though using them as a form of protest - is clearly a bit mental regardless of the view. and the "Just because certain people take white nationalism to extremes doesn’t mean that I am," comment, this woman is deluded. I would want to take the child away, but I guess that's hypocritical when you don't consider the views.

Another note, it wasn't just the religious views as stated. "The lawyer for CFS told court Monday this case has nothing to do with infringing on free speech or expression. He said it’s about "longstanding family dysfunction" — including drug and alcohol abuse, mental illness, neglect, and criminal activity and associations — which will prove the children are at risk if returned to their parents."

We don't know the full evidence so we can't decide whether their choice was right or wrong. But assuming everything in this article is true - then I happily agree with taking the children away.
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Posted 7/5/09
I don't know why is this case so special, teaching your beliefs to your child has been done since humans existed. Beliefs and opinions can neither be right or wrong, it only depends on the person believing and acting on it. Parents just passes along what they've learned and believed in to their offspring just to continue their legacy. If you want to stop this, "brainwashing" then you should start with the parents and the society as a whole. Condemning the parents and then separating the child from them is plainly stupid and forgetting the fact that it's not solely the parents fault for formulating such extreme ideas.
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Posted 7/5/09
another good way to stop brainwashing is to stop watching american news!!!
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