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Controversial views you hold
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Posted 7/4/09 , edited 7/4/09

Cuddlebuns wrote:


leviathan343 wrote:

New topic:

I personally would allow millions of the poor and starving to die (or be killed) to let the "strong" survive and flourish.


Why? Is financial success really a result of "strength?" Or rather, are people always poor because they don't have the "strength" to become rich?

I guess one of my controversial opinions is that I think criminals should be punished more harshly. Severe crimes like rape and murder should be punished by some kind of torture, because I think people who don't respect other people's rights shouldn't have any of their own. Less severe crimes should be punished by making them do some sort of rigorous/unpleasant productive labor, or possibly force them into the army. But I doubt any of this will ever happen.


I never defined "strong", hence the quotation marks.
But I also stated the position poorly. It's not necessarily a difference in financial prosperity. Have you ever read Nietzsche's Genealogy of Morals?


Cuddlebuns wrote:


leviathan343 wrote:

New topic:

I personally would allow millions of the poor and starving to die (or be killed) to let the "strong" survive and flourish.


I guess one of my controversial opinions is that I think criminals should be punished more harshly. Severe crimes like rape and murder should be punished by some kind of torture, because I think people who don't respect other people's rights shouldn't have any of their own. Less severe crimes should be punished by making them do some sort of rigorous/unpleasant productive labor, or possibly force them into the army. But I doubt any of this will ever happen.


Well, that depends on what you think the goal of imprisonment/punishment is. Is it to reform the criminal or to act as an equalizing force, the "eye for an eye" principle? But you seem to allow things beyond that.
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Posted 7/4/09

Ryutai-Desk wrote:


leviathan343 wrote:

New topic:

I personally would allow millions of the poor and starving to die (or be killed) to let the "strong" survive and flourish.


That would be discrimination. Like what USA did to weak countries in middle east.
If all humans think this way, they'd think themselves is superior than anyone else beside him.

Humanity would be extinct faster this way.


Sorry, I stated it in a shitty manner. "Strength" isn't necessarily greater wealth. It's a description of a different type of human being. I think these individuals and that state of existence should be cultivated, even if it comes at the expense of others.
Posted 7/4/09

marumo-kun wrote:


Master_A wrote:

Alcohol. But then again to try to convince people that it's wrong no matter backup or supporting evidence, you'd probably most likely fail your message through. I don't see why I should start. But that's my opinion. Make it illegal. Ban it from the universe. I don't need any arguments in my opinion. Since it's clear why it should not be allowed. And since I don't care to try, I wont.




Lol. Glad someone in Extended Discussion still has a sense of humour.
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Posted 7/5/09 , edited 7/5/09

Ryutai-Desk
Well, do you like to see a human being tortured in front of you as he screaming about the pains he feel? I think that's just being inhuman.

That eye for an eye philosophy is better than torturing someone. If a person makes another person blind, then he deserves to be a blind man as well, that's what we called equal.
And Does all person in this world has hobby to make someone blind?
The punishment is just for those who commits the crime....

Equality means treat others equally, no discrimination.
Take example, If a president or senate member commit a crime or adultery in a country. Would the punishment and the treatment stay same like those who only civilian or minority?


Personally I don't enjoy watching grotesque violent things like torture. But I think that taking someone's life or violating their body is inhuman too, so people who do those things shouldn't be treated like humans. They don't deserve to be respected as human beings if they can't behave like decent human beings (what defines "decent" is a whole other discussion of course).

Yes everyone has a "hobby" of making someone else blind, unless a criminal has absolutely no one in the world who cares about them, someone will try to seek revenge for their punishment, and it will be a never-ending cycle of revenge. That is why I feel that if we make punishment for severe crimes more harsh, then only the truly psychopathic people (which isn't many people) will commit those kinds of crimes, and it will really make "normal" criminals think hard about if committing the crime is worth the punishment, and hopefully the fear of torture would make more people decide not to commit crimes.

I never said equality was a bad thing, just that it's not always a good thing, like in the case of treating people who commit inhuman crimes as human beings. Why treat someone as a human if they commit inhuman acts?


leviathan343
I never defined "strong", hence the quotation marks.
But I also stated the position poorly. It's not necessarily a difference in financial prosperity. Have you ever read Nietzsche's Genealogy of Morals?


No, but I'll probably look into it. I have too much free time lately so I might as well start studying philosophy again.



Well, that depends on what you think the goal of imprisonment/punishment is. Is it to reform the criminal or to act as an equalizing force, the "eye for an eye" principle? But you seem to allow things beyond that.


I think it depends on the crime and the criminal's reasons for the crime. I think people who commit severe crimes like rape and murder just for the hell of it should be the ones who are tortured, while lesser criminals like petty thieves who steal because they feel like they have no other option should be simply imprisoned and rehabilitated somehow. But I still think jails in the U.S are too "nice," getting free room and board and watching TV all day doesn't seem like a punishment to me, in fact it's a major improvement for a lot of those criminals.
Posted 7/5/09 , edited 7/5/09

No one in my family have touched it. Sorry, but it is personal. Which is what you and her don't get. Excuse me, but what did I say in the very first post? Read it and you will see my point. And I was 100% correct in what I said. Since I didn't leave that message, I was saying "I don't care, don't start an argument" this entire time. But thanks for being so judgemental if you now were right. Which you of course are not. Leave me alone.
Posted 7/5/09

I am not making sense? What the heck did I wrote in my very first post? Did you even understand? If someone doesn't understand something, that does not mean that what you read is wrong or coherent. Mostly it's because you CANNOT understand it. I was never insulting. Why do you think I was? Do you mean you actually are a moron? If you are then yes, but then why do you argue, if you are? If not then why are you acting like this? You insulted me. You were the mean one not me. I told you "I don't want to, leave me alone." Must you make everyone follow your opinion? Can't I have my own? Seriously, give me a break. I don't care for your opinion. I don't care what you wrote. It is pointless. Has nothing to do with banning or not banning alcohol. It was one test. How accurate is one lousy test in one country over a few years anyway? People rob and kill sober when they organise it. If you don't drink, doesn't mean that they will organise it or anything. What a foolish conclusion. And me saying this is ALSO MY OWN PERSONAL OPINION. Which means, why the heck do you need to ask me why, or try to change that? Don't force your foolish arguments or opinions on people. You came with an argument, I never did. I defend myself from weird people like you. So, this is no debate, if it was, I promise you. You would fail. There is no way anyone can win with that weak statement. "Ok now you're not making any sense and insulting and threatening me for absolutely no reason, even though I have been calm and respectful this entire time. "Oh, really? Prove to me you were calm. "you apparently have some anger issues" Prove to me now that I was angry. Can you do that? No, then why the heck do you say such that are lies? And where exactly did I threaten you? Why the heck do you lie so much? "then there is no point in continuing" I get it. When I say "I don't want to, leave me alone." You keep babbling away, but when you find a reason in a lie you created, you say "then there is no point in continuing". You make me laugh. That is ridiculous. You made no sense. I did make sense since I ONLY said I didn't want to argue. I was not angry, but annoyed. I was nice, but you keep pushing me. Then you say "I was bored". What are you insane? Geez, seriously go annoy someone else. If you reply, then please make it be "Goodbye forever".
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Posted 7/20/09

Cuddlebuns wrote:


leviathan343 wrote:

New topic:

I personally would allow millions of the poor and starving to die (or be killed) to let the "strong" survive and flourish.


Why? Is financial success really a result of "strength?" Or rather, are people always poor because they don't have the "strength" to become rich?

I guess one of my controversial opinions is that I think criminals should be punished more harshly. Severe crimes like rape and murder should be punished by some kind of torture, because I think people who don't respect other people's rights shouldn't have any of their own. Less severe crimes should be punished by making them do some sort of rigorous/unpleasant productive labor, or possibly force them into the army. But I doubt any of this will ever happen.


I'm not being funny, but I agree 100%.

Why should a rapist or a murderer be able to mentally torture someone, and just end up in fucking jail?
I think that a murderer should be put to some sort of painful death, and A rapist should be castrated, etc.
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Posted 7/20/09



assuming we had the ability to definitively prove 100% that someone was guilty of said crime?
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Posted 7/20/09

blaaps wrote:




assuming we had the ability to definitively prove 100% that someone was guilty of said crime?


I hope thats the case because stats show that around 30% of the people charged and put in jail years later was found not to have been guilty of those crimes there charged with.

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digs 
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Posted 7/20/09

Darkphoenix3450 wrote:


blaaps wrote:




assuming we had the ability to definitively prove 100% that someone was guilty of said crime?


I hope thats the case because stats show that around 30% of the people charged and put in jail years later was found not to have been guilty of those crimes there charged with.



I would believe this, but do you have a source? It wouldn't surprise me if 30% came out, but is this fact? Because if so it is really shocking to me that the judicial system locks up that many innocent people.

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Posted 7/20/09 , edited 7/20/09
" My controversial view 1.) is that Religion is a plague that does nothing but harm the grouth of all man kind, both in Science advancements and in Morals health. ' I see it as a Poison that rots away one's abulity to use their moral judgment creating mindless drones/sheep.'
Religion is a device to allow a person to not have to think for them selfs. A Device that lets them Hide from the world, and keep them selfs in there own walls of Delusion.
Religion does harm to all, and what good it does is nothing that Non-religous things can say they have did them selfs. In otherwords Its a harmful device kids are brainwashed into and should be removed from this world.


" My controversial view 2.) That America need to stop spending all their borrowed money, (being America it self is broke!) On their military and start working on their space program so that we can expand our minds and are selfs to the stars. We should be building bases on mars later to become Cities. And maybe a Giant Jail on the moon. I also find It sick that America is the most dumb out of the non-3rd-world nations. They should throw some more money into education as well, plus free healthcare programs for everyone. America spend Billions on Drug campaign; money that could have been used to better educate the kids, and give people a better life. Better Education + better lives = Less crime and less need for drugs to help make daily life livable."



" My controversial view 3.) There should be a fat tax. America being 2nd most out of shape country in the world, it a tax that I think we as a nation really needs.
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Posted 7/20/09 , edited 7/20/09

digs wrote:


Darkphoenix3450 wrote:


blaaps wrote:




assuming we had the ability to definitively prove 100% that someone was guilty of said crime?


I hope thats the case because stats show that around 30% of the people charged and put in jail years later was found not to have been guilty of those crimes there charged with.



I would believe this, but do you have a source? It wouldn't surprise me if 30% came out, but is this fact? Because if so it is really shocking to me that the judicial system locks up that many innocent people.



In 1990 estimated 9,969 wrongful convictions for murder alone. What causes wrongful convictions? To find out, Huff and his co-authors created a database of 205 wrongful convictions collected from a variety of sources. After analyzing these cases, the researchers found that most wrongful convictions resulted from a combination of errors. The main cause in more than half of the cases -- 52.3 percent -- was eyewitness misidentification.
Your right it was far from 30% it was closer to 5.5%

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Posted 7/20/09 , edited 7/20/09

Saiyori_xo wrote:


Cuddlebuns wrote:


leviathan343 wrote:

New topic:

I personally would allow millions of the poor and starving to die (or be killed) to let the "strong" survive and flourish.


Why? Is financial success really a result of "strength?" Or rather, are people always poor because they don't have the "strength" to become rich?

I guess one of my controversial opinions is that I think criminals should be punished more harshly. Severe crimes like rape and murder should be punished by some kind of torture, because I think people who don't respect other people's rights shouldn't have any of their own. Less severe crimes should be punished by making them do some sort of rigorous/unpleasant productive labor, or possibly force them into the army. But I doubt any of this will ever happen.


I'm not being funny, but I agree 100%.

Why should a rapist or a murderer be able to mentally torture someone, and just end up in fucking jail?
I think that a murderer should be put to some sort of painful death, and A rapist should be castrated, etc.


Neither of you obviously know what jail is like =/
and the only way this would work is if there was a perfect
system for getting only guilty criminals 100% of the time =/





Darkphoenix3450 wrote:

" My controversial view 1.) is that Religion is a plague that does nothing but harm the grouth of all man kind, both in Science advancements and in Morals health. ' I see it as a Poison that rots away one's abulity to use their moral judgment creating mindless drones/sheep.'
Religion is a device to allow a person to not have to think for them selfs. A Device that lets them Hide from the world, and keep them selfs in there own walls of Delusion.
Religion does harm to all, and what good it does is nothing that Non-religous things can say they have did them selfs. In otherwords Its a harmful device kids are brainwashed into and should be removed from this world.


" My controversial view 2.) That America need to stop spending all their borrowed money, (being America it self is broke!) On their military and start working on their space program so that we can expand our minds and ourselves to the stars. We should be building bases on mars later to become Cities. And maybe a Giant Jail on the moon. I also find It sick that America is the most dumb out of the non-3rd-world nations. They should throw some more money into education as well, plus free healthcare programs for everyone. America spend Billions on Drug campaign; money that could have been used to better educate the kids, and give people a better life. Better Education + better lives = Less crime and less need for drugs to help make daily life livable."



" My controversial view 3.) There should be a fat tax. America being 2nd most out of shape country in the world, it a tax that I think we as a nation really needs.




2.The bit I highlighted those aren't controversial those are just FACTS


I disagree that religion is nothing but a plague
SOME PEOPLE maybe mindless drones who do make all religions look bad
but religion has also helped people be able to deal with difficult phases in their lives such as the death of a loved one etc,
it has also helped to promote tolerance and understanding to many.

I also disagree about taking the money for space travel and building cities on the moon
it should be first used to help 3rd world nations with healthcare, food and schools


Also Master_A
is a moron who can't use paragraphs =/
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Posted 7/20/09

Unellmay
Neither of you obviously know what jail is like =/
and the only way this would work is if there was a perfect
system for getting only guilty criminals 100% of the time =/


Two of my brothers have been in and out of jail most of their lives, for theft, child abuse, and assault, and every time they go their only complaint is that they get bored very often. I don't think someone who physically abuses their children should be punished by being bored for a year.

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Posted 7/20/09

Cuddlebuns wrote:


Unellmay
Neither of you obviously know what jail is like =/
and the only way this would work is if there was a perfect
system for getting only guilty criminals 100% of the time =/


Two of my brothers have been in and out of jail most of their lives, for theft, child abuse, and assault, and every time they go their only complaint is that they get bored very often. I don't think someone who physically abuses their children should be punished by being bored for a year.







Well it depends which jail it is doesn't it ;D
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Posted 7/20/09

Cuddlebuns wrote:


Unellmay
Neither of you obviously know what jail is like =/
and the only way this would work is if there was a perfect
system for getting only guilty criminals 100% of the time =/


Two of my brothers have been in and out of jail most of their lives, for theft, child abuse, and assault, and every time they go their only complaint is that they get bored very often. I don't think someone who physically abuses their children should be punished by being bored for a year.




How about abusing them ? Give them a "taste of their own medicine" as the expression goes.
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Posted 7/20/09
i have so many on my mind, but I'll list one~

- citizens that are wrongfully imprisoned
- I know discrimination plays a big part in it as well, but i feel that today's technology should be advanced enough to avoid wrongfully incarcerating someone.
Posted 7/20/09
-I am for abortion in certain cases.
-I am for gun rights for all people but there needs to but the system on back ground checks needs an overhaul so that repeat offenders of violent crimes can obtain a weapon.
-I believe that all people have right to choose they way they want to live, choosing there own religion etc as long as it's in the law.
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Posted 7/20/09 , edited 7/20/09
- Jesus is Black
- Tupac still alive
- Jews run da whole wide world!
- 9-11 was done by Elvis
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Posted 7/20/09
for abortion
- i don't believe anyone has the right to force their belief on someone else. a mother shouldn't be prohibited from aborting a baby just because some people think it is wrong. i personally don't like abortion at all, but i don't have any right to tell her she can't abort her baby just because i don't like it.

for gun rights
- gun control has done nothing beneficial in the united states. every time a gun ban is passed in a city or state, the crime rate does not go down. criminals will always find ways to obtain guns, and gun bans only strip law abiding citizens of their right to defend themselves.

for the legalization of marijuana
- if something as dangerous and harmful as alcohol is legal, then why is weed illegal? weed is much less harmful than alcohol is and nowhere near as dangerous as alcohol. besides the government could easily make loads of money off taxing it like they do with tobacco.

note: i won't respond to any quotes on this post. i don't care if you agree or disagree with what i think.
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Posted 7/21/09

Cuddlebuns wrote:


Unellmay
Neither of you obviously know what jail is like =/
and the only way this would work is if there was a perfect
system for getting only guilty criminals 100% of the time =/




I'll humour you 'cause I haven't had any close contact with jail within my family.
but you get the point. >_________________<
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