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How do you feel about CR censoring "Charger Girl"
Posted 7/9/09 , edited 7/9/09

Aizen-X wrote:




It's because in fact, the issue is on a small scale.

What you think is right and what CR thinks is right could be two different kinds of rights, what you see as a possible wrong is a possible right to them.

It may be so but that doesn't mean people have to give up the right to censor things they may see to be unfit for certain reasons just because people don't like censorship.

Again people retain the right to censor what they wish.

Yes that may be true but CR can do what they want with the anime, it is not just you they are showing it for, they are showing for their many other users who may be interested.

That's true that they could be showing other 'ideal' animes but there could be plans for that, you never know.

And you shouldn't assume that their idea is to ruin the integrity of the show, they are editing it for the users, and you have no idea how the show is going to be like edited so you shouldn't assume that it's already ruined to an extent just because it's censored.

Right now your points hold very little validity because it is based on what you think is right and wrong, which on CR, most likely holds no meaning because they know what they are doing.




Sorry buddy, but you're wrong. Censorship is a broad issue, not a small one, and it has implications that reach beyond 1 or 2 shows on CR. If anime fans are complacent with these kinds of shenanigans then there's no reason to assume CR or other distributors won't do it again and in more meaningful ways. Charger Girl is a new title and not that well known right now, but I'll bet a lot more people would be upset if they had done this to something like Code Geass or Gundam OO.

And what CR thinks is right is irrelevant - the only thing that matters here is what the people PAYING for anime think is right. I doubt many people feel like supporting the distribution of incomplete, hacked up and edited anime (would you buy a censored DVD?). Beyond that censorship has NEVER resulted in anything good. Censorship has always been an agent of controlling fascists who believed they knew what was best for everyone else.

And don't even try to pretend that the edits aren't an affront to the integrity of anime, especially in the case of Charger Girl (it doesn't matter what their intent is, they've altered the product; they've changed its integrity). It's quite clear this is a fan service anime, but they edit out parts of the fan service - that completely defeats the purpose of airing the show.

CR should simply stay away from shows that it cannot air in their entirety.
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Posted 7/9/09 , edited 7/9/09

MrBadguy wrote:


Aizen-X wrote:




It's because in fact, the issue is on a small scale.

What you think is right and what CR thinks is right could be two different kinds of rights, what you see as a possible wrong is a possible right to them.

It may be so but that doesn't mean people have to give up the right to censor things they may see to be unfit for certain reasons just because people don't like censorship.

Again people retain the right to censor what they wish.

Yes that may be true but CR can do what they want with the anime, it is not just you they are showing it for, they are showing for their many other users who may be interested.

That's true that they could be showing other 'ideal' animes but there could be plans for that, you never know.

And you shouldn't assume that their idea is to ruin the integrity of the show, they are editing it for the users, and you have no idea how the show is going to be like edited so you shouldn't assume that it's already ruined to an extent just because it's censored.

Right now your points hold very little validity because it is based on what you think is right and wrong, which on CR, most likely holds no meaning because they know what they are doing.




Sorry buddy, but you're wrong. Censorship is a broad issue, not a small one, and it has implications that reach beyond 1 or 2 shows on CR. If anime fans are complacent with these kinds of shenanigans then there's no reason to assume CR or other distributors won't do it again and in more meaningful ways. Charger Girl is a new title and not that well known right now, but I'll bet a lot more people would be upset if they had done this to something like Code Geass or Gundam OO.

And what CR thinks is right is irrelevant - the only thing that matters here is what the people PAYING for anime think is right. I doubt many people feel like supporting the distribution of incomplete, hacked up and edited anime (would you buy a censored DVD?). Beyond that censorship has NEVER resulted in anything good. Censorship has always been an agent of controlling fascists who believed they knew what was best for everyone else.

And don't even try to pretend that the edits aren't an affront to the integrity of anime, especially in the case of Charger Girl (it doesn't matter what their intent is, they've altered the product; they've changed its integrity). It's quite clear this is a fan service anime, but they edit out parts of the fan service - that completely defeats the purpose of airing the show.

CR should simply stay away from shows that it cannot air in their entirety.


Alright there are some points that you've missed and you still continue to miss.
1) CR can do what they want with the anime they have, bottom line.
2) The idea of what is wrong and what is right is based on your views, which doesn't matter since CR is still going to show the anime.
3) The censorship deal is all your beliefs, which don't really mean anything considering you are the only one who is making a big deal about it, and you have no proof that censorship has "never" resulted in anything good.

Let me link you to the 3rd reason first.

Movies, are big to people and are small to people, they also mean nothing.
But those who are big on movies, watch them and I am pretty sure somewhere on this world someone has had a kid watch a censored movie. Good right? Of course. Censorship helped in this case.
It's the same for anime, where it was edited for a younger audience. Movies are edited for younger audiences sometimes too.
And about the DVDs, people buy them all the time, some come even with uncensored but people sometimes buy the movie as soon as it comes out on DVD. Some of them have second sales where they sell the same DVD but with double features and the missing uncensored parts.

Ok, so you care about censorship so much, I am pretty sure you are aware that Air and Kanon have both been censored as well correct?
They have both been intended for adults and have been edited for younger audiences. But people still love it yes? So there is no saying that censorship have never resulted in anything good. Also, they wouldn't have gotten popular if it WASN'T for them being censored in the first place.

And to be honest, people who are paying to see this anime, it's their choice. I am pretty sure they aren't paying just to see this anime, there are more that they would want to see than just this. If they don't like it, there is google for them to search.

Again, You are just saying what you believe, you have no proof = void.
Posted 7/9/09
don't know what charger girl & don't care. plus this is in the wrong section

~reported.
Posted 7/9/09 , edited 7/9/09

Aizen-X wrote:

Alright there are some points that you've missed and you still continue to miss.
1) CR can do what they want with the anime they have, bottom line.
2) The idea of what is wrong and what is right is based on your views, which doesn't matter since CR is still going to show the anime.
3) The censorship deal is all your beliefs, which don't really mean anything considering you are the only one who is making a big deal about it, and you have no proof that censorship has "never" resulted in anything good.

Let me link you to the 3rd reason first.

Movies, are big to people and are small to people, they also mean nothing.
But those who are big on movies, watch them and I am pretty sure somewhere on this world someone has had a kid watch a censored movie. Good right? Of course. Censorship helped in this case.
It's the same for anime, where it was edited for a younger audience. Movies are edited for younger audiences sometimes too.
And about the DVDs, people buy them all the time, some come even with uncensored but people sometimes buy the movie as soon as it comes out on DVD. Some of them have second sales where they sell the same DVD but with double features and the missing uncensored parts.

Ok, so you care about censorship so much, I am pretty sure you are aware that Air and Kanon have both been censored as well correct?
They have both been intended for adults and have been edited for younger audiences. But people still love it yes? So there is no saying that censorship have never resulted in anything good. Also, they wouldn't have gotten popular if it WASN'T for them being censored in the first place.

And to be honest, people who are paying to see this anime, it's their choice. I am pretty sure they aren't paying just to see this anime, there are more that they would want to see than just this. If they don't like it, there is google for them to search.

Again, You are just saying what you believe, you have no proof = void.



Alright, let's go around the circle one more time, since you're still in the dark:

1. I never said they couldn't, but it is unfortunate that they choose to do so.
2. It's not just "my" view - it's the opinion of A LOT of people. Ask any artist/musician/writer/director/poet/etc. and they will tell you that censorship is an atrocious attack on artistic freedom and expression. (take a look at the poll - I'm not alone )
3. See number 2. It's not simply a "belief" but a fact. Censorship belongs in the same era as McCarthyism and the Nazi regime. (No I'm not saying CR is run by nazis, but they are making some of the same poor choices).


Now, if you honestly think movies/media mean "nothing" you really need to get out in the world and read a few books while you're at it. You've pretty much destroyed any chance you had at making a valid argument right there. Media and entertainment shape the general zeitgeist of any society and censorship intrudes upon and warps that.

As for DVDs - extra features are not content removed from the original and then put back into specials editions; they are EXTRA, as in extraneous. They aren't removed portions of the main production.

As for "broader" audiences: That's a load of BS. The audience doesn't need to be made any more broad than the original target, especially when we're talking about age sensitive viewers. Anyone who isn't old enough to view X movie now can simply see it when they grow up.
No artist would condone having their work watered down just so a few more kids to could see it sooner. If they wanted a wider audience they'd produce something for them.

Now, for the paying members of the site: They may not be specifically paying for Juuden-chan (it's so new many may not even know about it)... but they are paying for it indirectly. I think most people would rather have their money spent on acquiring the rights to air unedited anime. When CR spends money on rights to something like Juuden-chan they no longer have money to spend on an anime they could treat in a more civilized manner.
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Posted 7/9/09

MrBadguy wrote:


Aizen-X wrote:

Alright there are some points that you've missed and you still continue to miss.
1) CR can do what they want with the anime they have, bottom line.
2) The idea of what is wrong and what is right is based on your views, which doesn't matter since CR is still going to show the anime.
3) The censorship deal is all your beliefs, which don't really mean anything considering you are the only one who is making a big deal about it, and you have no proof that censorship has "never" resulted in anything good.

Let me link you to the 3rd reason first.

Movies, are big to people and are small to people, they also mean nothing.
But those who are big on movies, watch them and I am pretty sure somewhere on this world someone has had a kid watch a censored movie. Good right? Of course. Censorship helped in this case.
It's the same for anime, where it was edited for a younger audience. Movies are edited for younger audiences sometimes too.
And about the DVDs, people buy them all the time, some come even with uncensored but people sometimes buy the movie as soon as it comes out on DVD. Some of them have second sales where they sell the same DVD but with double features and the missing uncensored parts.

Ok, so you care about censorship so much, I am pretty sure you are aware that Air and Kanon have both been censored as well correct?
They have both been intended for adults and have been edited for younger audiences. But people still love it yes? So there is no saying that censorship have never resulted in anything good. Also, they wouldn't have gotten popular if it WASN'T for them being censored in the first place.

And to be honest, people who are paying to see this anime, it's their choice. I am pretty sure they aren't paying just to see this anime, there are more that they would want to see than just this. If they don't like it, there is google for them to search.

Again, You are just saying what you believe, you have no proof = void.



Alright, let's go around the circle one more time, since you're still in the dark:

1. I never said they couldn't, but it is unfortunate that they choose to do so.
2. It's not just "my" view - it's the opinion of A LOT of people. Ask any artist/musician/writer/director/poet/etc. and they will tell you that censorship is an atrocious attack on artistic freedom and expression.
3. See number 2. It's not simply a "belief" but a fact. Censorship belongs in the same era as McCarthyism and the Nazi regime. (No I'm not saying CR is run by nazis, but they are making some of the same poor choices).


Now, if you honestly think movies/media mean "nothing" you really need to get out in the world and read a few books while you're at it. You've pretty much destroyed any chance you had at making a valid argument right there. Media and entertainment shape the general zeitgeist of any society and censorship intrudes upon and warps that.

As for DVDs - extra features are not content removed from the original and then put back into specials editions; they are EXTRA, as in extraneous. They aren't removed portions of the main production.

As for "broader" audiences: That's a load of BS. The audience doesn't need to be made any more broad than the original target, especially when we're talking about age sensitive viewers. Anyone who isn't old enough to view X movie now can simply see it when they grow up.
No artist would condone having their work watered down just so a few more kids to could see it sooner. If they wanted a wider audience they'd produce something for them.

Now, for the paying members of the site: They may not be specifically paying for Juuden-chan (it's so new many may not even know about it)... but they are paying for it indirectly. I think most people would rather have their money spent on acquiring the rights to air unedited anime. When CR spends money on rights to something like Juuden-chan they no longer have money to spend on an anime they could treat in a more civilized manner.


Whoops I missed a few words about that nothing but, I do personally think it's nothing. A lot of it is fake and is misleading. I like how the media always has something to say about someone dying everyday and yet some of them say it with a very up tone, I'd take that as an insult. The media is utter crap when it comes to portraying a message,too. How much would I like it to know that rappers are saying that human traficking is ok, and have my possible future kids learn that? I wouldn't like it at all. This is another reason why I think it's crap.

Well I am about to tell you one thing, and that is people believe in different things obviously.
To me, it is not fact.
To you it could be.
I'm not ignorant, I know more that most people would.

Though I like how you think you know what is best for CR, which goes back to my #1, they can do what they want and you don't seem to get it.

Ok so let me say something, how does something becomes popular? People see it, know about it and talk about it. How do you make more money? When your product sales. How do you make it sell more? By making the target audience broader. So in other words, it's not Bull Shit, any person who knows about marketing would know broadening the audience makes more money, same with everything else. Look at kids bop or whatever, they are making a lot of money just because they broadened the audience of music into younger generation, hence they had to censor some of it.

Also, It happens. People censor everything. There is no use in complaining about it. If you want, you can start a revolt or something to get your message through. The anime is getting censored, like I said, go to google and do some searching there if you don't like it.
Anyways those who are getting the money are happy, so they don't have anything to complain about either, if they do, then they should cry in a corner because half of them don't have any good message to portray in the first place anyways.

And uh, I don't think they added those bonus clips into the movie after they finished shooting the movie and made it official, it would be stupid and illogical.



Posted 7/9/09

Aizen-X wrote:

Whoops I missed a few words about that nothing but, I do personally think it's nothing. A lot of it is fake and is misleading. I like how the media always has something to say about someone dying everyday and yet some of them say it with a very up tone, I'd take that as an insult. The media is utter crap when it comes to portraying a message,too. How much would I like it to know that rappers are saying that human traficking is ok, and have my possible future kids learn that? I wouldn't like it at all. This is another reason why I think it's crap.

Well I am about to tell you one thing, and that is people believe in different things obviously.
To me, it is not fact.
To you it could be.
I'm not ignorant, I know more that most people would.

Though I like how you think you know what is best for CR, which goes back to my #1, they can do what they want and you don't seem to get it.

Ok so let me say something, how does something becomes popular? People see it, know about it and talk about it. How do you make more money? When your product sales. How do you make it sell more? By making the target audience broader. So in other words, it's not Bull Shit, any person who knows about marketing would know broadening the audience makes more money, same with everything else. Look at kids bop or whatever, they are making a lot of money just because they broadened the audience of music into younger generation, hence they had to censor some of it.

Also, It happens. People censor everything. There is no use in complaining about it. If you want, you can start a revolt or something to get your message through. The anime is getting censored, like I said, go to google and do some searching there if you don't like it.
Anyways those who are getting the money are happy, so they don't have anything to complain about either, if they do, then they should cry in a corner because half of them don't have any good message to portray in the first place anyways.

And uh, I don't think they added those bonus clips into the movie after they finished shooting the movie and made it official, it would be stupid and illogical.




While your ignorance regarding media and entertainment continues to be astounding you are right about the marketing. I know, it's business and business minded people will do whatever makes the most money. That's not surprising, but it's sad because there are better alternatives.

Now... do I know what's best for CR? No, but I do know that most anime fans do not want to watch watered down anime. I also know censorship hurts the media in general by implying that parts of it are not held in high enough esteem to be viewed in their complete form. It is an entirely negative action in the prism of creative freedom. Good for business, bad for art.

And about DVD extras: Again, those things are extra. They were the bits and pieces that did not make the final cut. That is entirely different from censorship. The creatives minds made a decision to omit content because they felt the over all piece would benefit from it - not because some third party said, "lol we can't show THAT."
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Posted 7/9/09

MrBadguy wrote:


Aizen-X wrote:

Whoops I missed a few words about that nothing but, I do personally think it's nothing. A lot of it is fake and is misleading. I like how the media always has something to say about someone dying everyday and yet some of them say it with a very up tone, I'd take that as an insult. The media is utter crap when it comes to portraying a message,too. How much would I like it to know that rappers are saying that human traficking is ok, and have my possible future kids learn that? I wouldn't like it at all. This is another reason why I think it's crap.

Well I am about to tell you one thing, and that is people believe in different things obviously.
To me, it is not fact.
To you it could be.
I'm not ignorant, I know more that most people would.

Though I like how you think you know what is best for CR, which goes back to my #1, they can do what they want and you don't seem to get it.

Ok so let me say something, how does something becomes popular? People see it, know about it and talk about it. How do you make more money? When your product sales. How do you make it sell more? By making the target audience broader. So in other words, it's not Bull Shit, any person who knows about marketing would know broadening the audience makes more money, same with everything else. Look at kids bop or whatever, they are making a lot of money just because they broadened the audience of music into younger generation, hence they had to censor some of it.

Also, It happens. People censor everything. There is no use in complaining about it. If you want, you can start a revolt or something to get your message through. The anime is getting censored, like I said, go to google and do some searching there if you don't like it.
Anyways those who are getting the money are happy, so they don't have anything to complain about either, if they do, then they should cry in a corner because half of them don't have any good message to portray in the first place anyways.

And uh, I don't think they added those bonus clips into the movie after they finished shooting the movie and made it official, it would be stupid and illogical.




While your ignorance regarding media and entertainment continues to be astounding you are right about the marketing. I know, it's business and business minded people will do whatever makes the most money. That's not surprising, but it's sad because there are better alternatives.

Now... do I know what's best for CR? No, but I do know that most anime fans do not want to watch watered down anime. I also know censorship hurts the media in general by implying that parts of it are not held in high enough esteem to be viewed in their complete form. It is an entirely negative action in the prism of creative freedom. Good for business, bad for art.

And about DVD extras: Again, those things are extra. They were the bits and pieces that did not make the final cut. That is entirely different from censorship. The creatives minds made a decision to omit content because they felt the over all piece would benefit from it - not because some third party said, "lol we can't show THAT."


Nah I lack no ignorance regarding to the media, I just know better than many other people. Media is fake, useless, the only media you can rely on is what you know is fact. Entertainment is..just there to keep people occupied from matters that are important. I am not going to continue this part because it would be branching off topic.

You speak like you know what is best

If CR feels that it needs to censor a show in order to make it age appropriate for its users then it shouldn't waste it's time on shows like that.



CR should simply stay away from shows that it cannot air in their entirety.



If that's the case then they have no business showing a program like Charger Girl. If they can't air it without editing it they should just leave it alone altogether.


Oh and I caught this one as well.

When CR spends money on rights to something like Juuden-chan they no longer have money to spend on an anime they could treat in a more civilized manner.


Civilized? So are you saying they are treating it in a inhumane manner? To whoms standards and why are you putting your personal idea of what is civilized and what is not into this?

And by the way, again, if they don't want to they don't have to watch waterdown anime, Although they do it anyways<!> so there is no reason why they should care about watered down anime
Posted 7/9/09

Nah I lack no ignorance regarding to the media, I just know better than many other people. Media is fake, useless, the only media you can rely on is what you know is fact. Entertainment is..just there to keep people occupied from matters that are important. I am not going to continue this part because it would be branching off topic.


Media is fake, useless


LOL. Do I even need to say anything? You'd be laughed out of any serious institution of of art, film, or literature.
Go back to school, please.



Civilized? So are you saying they are treating it in a inhumane manner? To whoms standards and why are you putting your personal idea of what is civilized and what is not into this?


Civilized cultures do not censor their media. Censorship is and always has been a tactic of close-minded, fearful people.



And by the way, again, if they don't want to they don't have to watch waterdown anime, Although they do it anyways<!> so there is no reason why they should care about watered down anime


No reason why they should care? Pshh, yeah, who the heck cares about experiencing media in the manner it was intended to be experienced. Beethoven wouldn't care if his music was heard through a broken, mono speaker with static and reverberation, so why should you, lol that's so silly.
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Posted 7/9/09
*sigh* they don't people downloading it illegally, then they make it so that illegal downloading is the only way to see the uncensored version...that's..... really clever...

good luck with that Avex
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Posted 7/9/09

MrBadguy wrote:


Nah I lack no ignorance regarding to the media, I just know better than many other people. Media is fake, useless, the only media you can rely on is what you know is fact. Entertainment is..just there to keep people occupied from matters that are important. I am not going to continue this part because it would be branching off topic.


Media is fake, useless


LOL. Do I even need to say anything? You'd be laughed out of any serious institution of of art, film, or literature.
Go back to school, please.



Civilized? So are you saying they are treating it in a inhumane manner? To whoms standards and why are you putting your personal idea of what is civilized and what is not into this?


Civilized cultures do not censor their media. Censorship is and always has been a tactic of close-minded, fearful people.



And by the way, again, if they don't want to they don't have to watch waterdown anime, Although they do it anyways<!> so there is no reason why they should care about watered down anime


No reason why they should care? Pshh, yeah, who the heck cares about experiencing media in the manner it was intended to be experienced. Beethoven wouldn't care if his music was heard through a broken, mono speaker with static and reverberation, so why should you, lol that's so silly.



LOL. Do I even need to say anything? You'd be laughed out of any serious institution of of art, film, or literature.
Go back to school, please.


I guess it's good that I take no interest in any of those three anyways.


Civilized cultures do not censor their media. Censorship is and always has been a tactic of close-minded, fearful people.

So I guess we are not according to you.

And yeah, there is a difference between anime and music, one is made from intruments and the other is made from drawings, anime can be edited out, so can music, the worst to happen in anime is a few missing clips, in music, a few missing beats or what not.. You make it sound so silly it's rediculous.
And we are not talking about music either, way to go genius. Although I like how you tried to relate them, but your example really did suck.
Posted 7/9/09

Aizen-X wrote:


Civilized cultures do not censor their media. Censorship is and always has been a tactic of close-minded, fearful people.

So I guess we are not according to you.

And yeah, there is a difference between anime and music, one is made from intruments and the other is made from drawings, anime can be edited out, so can music, the worst to happen in anime is a few missing clips, in music, a few missing beats or what not.. You make it sound so silly it's rediculous.
And we are not talking about music either, way to go genius. Although I like how you tried to relate them, but your example really did suck.


Culture takes a step, however small, backwards whenever freedom of expression is limited. Complacently accepting censorship means that our society still has room to improve itself.

Now, if you can't see the broader implications of censorship, here or elsewhere, that's your problem - the only intellectuals you'll find who support your view are misanthropes whom everybody remembers as jackasses. And if you can't make the connection between two kinds of creative productions then you're more hopeless than I first thought. Just stop embarrassing yourself.
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Posted 7/9/09

MrBadguy wrote:


Aizen-X wrote:


Civilized cultures do not censor their media. Censorship is and always has been a tactic of close-minded, fearful people.

So I guess we are not according to you.

And yeah, there is a difference between anime and music, one is made from intruments and the other is made from drawings, anime can be edited out, so can music, the worst to happen in anime is a few missing clips, in music, a few missing beats or what not.. You make it sound so silly it's rediculous.
And we are not talking about music either, way to go genius. Although I like how you tried to relate them, but your example really did suck.


Culture takes a step, however small, backwards whenever freedom of expression is limited. Complacently accepting censorship means that our society still has room to improve itself.

Now, if you can't see the broader implications of censorship, here or elsewhere, that's your problem - the only intellectuals you'll find who support your view are misanthropes whom everybody remembers as jackasses. And if you can't make the connection between two kinds of creative productions then you're more hopeless than I first thought. Just stop embarrassing yourself.



I hope you know that this is only your opinion, and your opinion means nothing to me at all. You will end up realizing soon enough though so whatever.
Posted 7/10/09

Aizen-X wrote:

I hope you know that this is only your opinion, and your opinion means nothing to me at all. You will end up realizing soon enough though so whatever.


Then you admit that your own posts, filled with opinion and conjectures, are equally meanlingless. And now you've rendered your argument moot, nice work.
Meanwhile the majority of people will continue to recognize censorship as a worthless stone-age tactic of fearful, greedy people.
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Posted 7/10/09
I don't care, I don't watch it.
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Posted 7/10/09

MrBadguy wrote:


Aizen-X wrote:

I hope you know that this is only your opinion, and your opinion means nothing to me at all. You will end up realizing soon enough though so whatever.


Then you admit that your own posts, filled with opinion and conjectures, are equally meanlingless. And now you've rendered your argument moot, nice work.
Meanwhile the majority of people will continue to recognize censorship as a worthless stone-age tactic of fearful, greedy people.


I meant your opinions, not mines.
I don't know where you picked that up from.
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