First  Prev  1  2  3  4  5  6  Next  Last
The Zeitgeist Discussion
10452 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
27 / M
Offline
Posted 7/21/09 , edited 7/22/09

drizza wrote:

Hey democracy now I like that show in fact I am watching it right now on Link TV. Anyways I have seen that one and thats the one I was mentioning with the two PM guys vs the college students. I want to see people like thishttp://www.patriotsquestion911.com/engineers.html debate PM. There is a book out there that refutes all of PM. My friend the Ansar refuted PM (he is a physics teacher) if you read the last response here http://www.crunchyroll.com/forumtopic-181651/was-september-11-an-inside-job-by-the-us/?pg=14 and the next page answers some tough questions. The problem is like I said Loose Change was just an eye opener we dont look to those guys as the know it alls of the issue I rather look to people with degree's.


Drizza, I went through and I read a couple of your friend’s posts. I would like to start out by saying that I think you’ve been lied to. I do not buy for even one minute that this guy is a physics professor. Alas, that simply amounts to an ad hominem argument and I’d rather avoid that. So, let’s begin by addressing some of his posts and sources.

First off, he claims that Michael Chertoff’s mother was the first Mossad agent.


Ansar Michael Chertoff is our Homeland Security chief. His mother was the first Israeli Mossad agent, his father was a Rabbi and he is a dual Israeli citizen.


Mossad was founded in 1949 and Israel didn’t being conscripting women until the 1960s. Livia Chertoff was the leader of the Congregation B’nai Israel and a flight attendant, not a Mossad agent. His father was a rabbi and does have a dual citizenship, but how is this relevant to the topic at hand?

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/news/articles/050718/18chertoff_2.htm

After attacking Chertoff he claims that the chief of Homeland security has connections with Popular Mechanics. He directly cites his source.


Well now it just so happens that the person who wrote the Popular Mechanics seriously flawed and much debunked article, parroting the establishment version of 9/11 was none other than Benjamin Chertoff, Michael Chertoff's cousin.

Hiding behind the good name and reputation of Popular Mechanics, Benjamin Chertoff could be charged with collusion. What is also most interesting is how he reacted when an investigative journalist confronted him about this.


Because the manager of public relations for Popular Mechanics didn't respond to repeated calls from American Free Press, I called Benjamin Chertoff, the magazine's "senior researcher," directly.

Chertoff said he was the "senior researcher" of the piece. When asked if he was related to Michael Chertoff, he said, "I don't know." Clearly uncomfortable about discussing the matter further, he told me that all questions about the article should be put to the publicist – the one who never answers the phone.

Benjamin's mother in Pelham, New York, however, was more willing to talk. Asked if Benjamin was related to the new Secretary of Homeland Security, Judy said, "Yes, of course, he is a cousin."

http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/archive.cgi?read=66176


What you’ll notice about this, however, is that his source of information is the American Free Press. As I pointed out earlier, this is a neo-Nazi online news letter that denies the holocaust and continuously blabbers about the Jewish conspiracy to conquer the world. Still, this is what we call a generic fallacy. I cannot say that the information is wrong simply because the source is unreliable. In this case, however, I’ve already pointed out that the accusations made within the neo-Nazi newsletter he is citing have been proven false.

Don't you remember the link I put up in the 9/11 thread?




Ansar

There are numerous flaws in the Popular Mechanics article and a few that I will quickly mention are below. I will also point you to two articles for more info:

1. The buildings fell at near free fall speed as if they were falling at the speed of gravity. Even with Popular Mechanics false claim about melted steel and pancaking effect, that is impossible. There would be significant friction from the opposing structure of the building to slow down the demolition like fall of the building to not be no where near free fall or it won't fall that way at all.

2. Only way for the building to fall like that was for it to be pre-wired for demolition and a substance like thermate used to cut the steel columns to allow the near free fall speed of the collapse of the building. My degree is in Physics and I am a graduate of MIT. My fellow physicist, Dr. Steven Jones proved from the existence of molten steel that the same by products of a thermate reaction was found.


Nobody actually knows how fast the building fell, but the professional estimates say that it took fifteen seconds. That means it was actually much slower than free fall speed and therefore components one and two of the ‘physics professor,’ are debunked.

http://www.911myths.com/html/freefall.html

Some more information on his free fall fallacy based argument can be found at the other websites I’ve linked. This, again, is why I’m encouraging you to read the links.

http://www.debunking911.com/freefall.htm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLShZOvxVe4&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Edebunking911%2Ecom%2Ffreefall%2Ehtm&feature=player_embedded



Numerous reports from firemen, eyewitnesses, maintenance workers, media, etc. were made regarding bombs going off in the building. Exactly the MO that will explain what would cause the buildings to collapse the way they did.


Once again it’s a borrowed accusation, not at all his material. The report from which he borrowed his material claims that numerous firefighters and other witnesses reported –hearing- explosions inside of the world trade center indicating the use of demolitions. However, these explosions do NOT necessarily indicate the use of demolitions. Even if it was a plane loaded with 10,000 gallons of fuel and not demolitions they would’ve heard the same explosions.

http://screwloosechange.blogspot.com/2006/05/top-lies-and-deceptions-in-loose.html
http://www.911myths.com/html/accounts_of_explosions.html


4. What caused WTC 7 to fall EXACTLY the same way as the other two towers that were hit by planes? After all WTC 7 was not hit by a plane


That is true but it’s also misleading. WTC was not hit by a plane but one of the other towers did fall on top of it causing an equally powerful impact.


5. The is the first time in history that high rise buildings supposedly were pancake demolished as a result of fire. There are numerous reports about other high rise buildings that burned for several hours much longer than the WTC towers did but they never collapsed as they did. Why?



6. The Pentagon was supposedly hit by a plane and no where near the damage was supposedly caused by planes hitting the WTC nor was there any evidence that a plane the size of a 767 actually hit the Pentagon.


That’s just not true….I mean, there’s not much to argue about. There either was debris and wreckage or there wasn’t. But of course there was.

http://www.911myths.com/html/757_wreckage.html


5. The is the first time in history that high rise buildings supposedly were pancake demolished as a result of fire. There are numerous reports about other high rise buildings that burned for several hours much longer than the WTC towers did but they never collapsed as they did. Why?


Those buildings weren’t hit by planes and didn’t have another building falling on top of them. This is the first time in history anything like this has happened.

Also, an argument you brought out a while back was that the owner of the WTC pulled out a huge insurance policy and profited from the explosion as a result. However, Larry Silverstein had already had an insurance policy. He was simply –required- to increase the policy because he’d begun leasing the building out just a couple months before 9/11 and that was part of the deal.

http://screwloosechange.blogspot.com/2006/06/larry-silverstein-evil-jewish-landlord.html


So, you see he didn’t debunk anything except his silly claim that he’s got a degree in physics from MIT.
Posted 7/21/09
I have trouble shaking off the idea that 9/11 was not an inside job, like some have said there were just way too many failures in the system on that day to make it seem like coincidince. I also would not put it past the Bush family to stir up some false flag attacks and open up a great propaganda machine to get the nation to agree to war, perhaps the C.I.A. is playing shadow government again like they did after WW II. As for the segments on religion I do think these figures in the bible actually could have existed but I doubt they had supernatural powers and that God actually exists.
4053 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
M / Yo Mommas House
Offline
Posted 7/21/09
Well I have to bring him on I will try hard to get him here because like I said I am still swaying on his side although your info seems credible as well. I am not an expert on this 9-11 topic tho but from what I am seeing it does seem that the government is using 9-11 to advance in foreign adventures. I will send him this email of your responses this is the most effective way anyways thanks for the responses.
10452 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
27 / M
Offline
Posted 7/21/09 , edited 7/21/09

drizza wrote:

Well muslim men are in fact forbidden to wear gold at least this is what I was taught. I dont think it matters with women. I havent been through all the links but I am read them I have many that refutes those as well especially popular mechanics..


Well, I’ve been talking to some of the Imams on the Ask About Islam websites. According to them, Muslims are not allowed to wear jewelry made out of solid gold but there’s nothing forbidding them from wearing things that are gold in color. Since you can’t tell if the watch and ring cited by Loose Change are made of slid gold or are simply gilded, it’s still a weak assertion at best. I typed some of the sura the Imams gave me into youtube search and found this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SgjWGVHxW8&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2E911mysteriesguide%2Ecom%2FMarkyX%2Fvideos%2Ehtml&feature=player_embedded


drizza wrote:

Well I have to bring him on I will try hard to get him here because like I said I am still swaying on his side although your info seems credible as well. I am not an expert on this 9-11 topic tho but from what I am seeing it does seem that the government is using 9-11 to advance in foreign adventures. I will send him this email of your responses this is the most effective way anyways thanks for the responses.


Wait a moment, I don’t understand. You say that all of my information is credible, and if this is true then he never debunked popular mechanics debunking of the 9/11 conspiracy theory; therefore, the logical conclusion is that it was not a government job. So how are you still lingering on his side? Do you simply not trust your own judgment?
10452 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
27 / M
Offline
Posted 7/22/09 , edited 7/22/09

drizza wrote:

Hey democracy now I like that show in fact I am watching it right now on Link TV. Anyways I have seen that one and thats the one I was mentioning with the two PM guys vs the college students. I want to see people like thishttp://www.patriotsquestion911.com/engineers.html debate PM. There is a book out there that refutes all of PM. My friend the Ansar refuted PM (he is a physics teacher) if you read the last response here http://www.crunchyroll.com/forumtopic-181651/was-september-11-an-inside-job-by-the-us/?pg=14 and the next page answers some tough questions. The problem is like I said Loose Change was just an eye opener we dont look to those guys as the know it alls of the issue I rather look to people with degree's.



After these two posts your friend the so called physics professor posted a link and challenged readers to refute even one point made within the article.

http://www.thepeoplesvoice.org/cgi-bin/blogs/voices.php/2006/09/12/who_did_911_obl_bush_or_mossad

Well, that’s not very difficult. This is quote from very early in the article. According to it thousands of Muslims have been arrested on terrorists charges and not one convicted.


Although thousands of Muslims have been arrested not one has been convicted of acts of terrorism.


Actually, only several hundred people have been arrested on terrorist charges. Only thirty nine were convicted on these charges, but an addition of 161 were convicted on other more minor charges that would’ve been overlooked had it not been for the terrorist charges. So, there are actually several incorrect elements to this quote.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/11/AR2005061100381.html

Now, what’s interesting about this is that his article points out that Muslims were being profiled but that a low conviction rate shows this profiling was unfair. After all, if the Muslims really were involved in 9/11 then the investigations following charges would’ve led to more convictions. I actually agree with this, but it later goes on to make multiple references to five Israeli men arrested on 9/11.



All of these were under the headline:

Here is a partial listing and involvement with events surrounding 911 that Israelis were involved with that no other country or organization in the world including the U.S. can match


Sure enough, you can go back and discover mainstream media reports of five “Middle Eastern Looking men documenting and celebrating,” the 9/11 attacks from the roof of their van. The van was investigated and discovered to be filled with passports, box cutters, and a large amount of cash. In addition a camera was found with pictures of the Israeli men frantically thrusting a finger at the WTC as it was burning with what is claimed to be a smile.

Now, this last note caught my attention because it reminded me of something that happened when I was young. We lived in Texas and a large tornado came through our neighborhood. My cousin ran outside to get her cat and I ran after. We came out in time to see a tree tumble into a nearby house. I recall smiling excitedly and pointing. Not because I was celebrating what had happened, but because I was happy that I had gotten to see something. So, I would be surprised if the man was smiling while he viewed the explosion.

As far as documenting, on another occasion me and my sister stood out on the porch and filmed a tornado from a distance here in McAlister, Oklahoma. So the documenting wouldn’t be too shocking either. Really, a lot of people filmed the bombing with excited looks on their face.

That’s why I used the word interesting. The Muslims are being profiled because of their Middle Eastern decent, and that’s bad. But when the Jews and Israelis receive the same treatment it’s ‘proof,’ that Israel is involved.

Well, according to Glen A. Tobias an d Abraham H. Foxman with the Anti-Defamation League:

A few weeks after the arrests of the Israelis was reported, the FBI announced that it had investigated but found no connection between the five men and the World Trade Center attack. Authorities did discover, however, that all of them had worked illegally for a moving van company, Urban Moving Systems, and had violated their tourist visas. According to various newspapers, including The New York Times and the Forward, after being held in prison for over two months all five signed papers acknowledging their immigration violations and were then deported back to Israel. The FBI also cleared them of any involvement in the terrorist
attacks.


This same document icle goes to address the accusation that Jewish and Israeli men were seen

(I cannot post a link because the file is downloaded directly onto my hard drive. However, on request I can send it as an e-mail attachment.)

In the end the article attempts to claim that Israel, not al-Qaeda, is the real culprit behind 9/11. They either orchestrated it or simply knew about it ahead of time. Al-Qaeda leader Ayma al-Zawahiri was actually enraged by these rumors. He claimed that it was a Shiite Muslim attempt to discredit Sunni heroes saying: “the objective behind this lie is to deny that the Sunnis have heroes who harm America…”
http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2008/06/02/080602fa_fact_wright?currentPage=all
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7361414.stm

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,352066,00.html

Surveys consistently indicate that between 270 and 400 Jews were murdered in the bombing.

http://www.jcpa.org/phas/phas-13.htm

Multiple Israeli citizens were also in the world Trade Center and were killed by the bombing!
http://web.archive.org/web/20021104190710/http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/A/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1031666147075

What’s ironic about this is that America’s close relationship with Israel is actually what inspired the extremist Muslim terrorists to bomb the world trade centers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7EB1FxENxQ&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Edebunking911%2Ecom%2Fosama%2Ehtm&feature=player_embedded

http://www.debunking911.com/osama.htm

And in fact on page 147 of the official 9/11 commission:


By his own account, KMS’ animus towards the United States stemmed not from his experiences there…but from his violent disagreement with US foreign policy favoring Israel.



Numerous reports from firemen, eyewitnesses, maintenance workers, media, etc. were made regarding bombs going off in the building. Exactly the MO that will explain what would cause the buildings to collapse the way they did.


Also, I would like to revisit this element of his earlier argument. I’m going to address some of these ‘reports,’ in question. First, Assistant Fire Commissioner Stephen Gregory is reported to have said: “I saw a flash, flash, flash [at] the lower level of the building. You know like when they demolish a building?”

This is one of the supposed comments ‘made regarding bombs going off,” used by conspiracy theorist websites and blogs, you’ve probably read it yourself. However, if you read the whole quote:


I know I was with an officer from Ladder 146, a Lieutenant Evangelista, who ultimately called me up a couple of days later just to find out how I was. We both for whatever reason -- again, I don't know how valid this is with everything that was going on at that particular point in time, but for some reason I thought that when I looked in the direction of the Trade Center before it came down, before No. 2 came down, that I saw low-leve] flashes. In my conversation with Lieutenant Evangelista, never mentioning this to him, he questioned me and asked me if I saw low-level flashes in front of the building, and I agreed with him because I thought – at that time I didn't know what it was. I mean, it could have been as a result of the building collapsing, things exploding, but I saw a flash, flash, flash and then it looked like the building came down


Another commonly quote eyewitness is Mike Walter who is commonly cited as saying, “It was like a cruise missile…went right there into the pentagon.”

I actually found a video footage of his entire CNN testimony on youtube. In the full quote he clearly states that it was a plane. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PTRsuRao7A


Now, another commonly misquote comes from Air Traffic Controller Daniel O’Brien (who has the same last name as my middle name, making him awesome) who stated: “The speed, the maneuverability, the way it turned, we all thought in the radar room, all of us experience Air Traffic Controllers, that it was a military plane.”

However, he was actually explaining why they didn’t find the plane suspicious. Military planes by the pentagon aren’t entirely rare, and if you read the full quote: “The speed, the maneuverability, the way it turned, we all thought in the radar room, all of us experience Air Traffic Controllers, that it was a military plane. You don’t fly a 757 that way because it’s unsafe.”

So you see, the flying pattern and method was typical of a military craft, but the plane itself was not.

Now, concerning the pentagon there was a grand total of 136 witness reports. One hundred and three said they physically saw the plane hit the pentagon. Twenty six agreed that it was an American Airlines Jet. Thirty nine said that it was a large commercial airliner. Seven said it was a Boeing 757. Two called it a commuter plane but were ambivalent or neglected to mention size. One said he saw a corporate jet. Eight of these were pilots, one was the afore mention Air Traffic Controller.

After the actual impact 43 saw airliner debris. Two described seeing two bodies still strapped into their seats. Nobody claimed to have seen a missile hit the pentagon. Nobody saw anything other than a plane hit the pentagon. Nobody reported seeing anything that would suggest anything other than a plane hit the pentagon.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1wQ2BJsgx0

Now, again, most of these cited 'reports,' were actually just people describing noises, and yes. These noises would’ve been present if the being had been demolished. However, they also would’ve been present if the building had been hit by a plane. The following link lists off all of Ansar cited reports so you can read them for yourself. People heard loud bangs. Yes, exploding charges make banging noises. At the same time, so do planes bursting into flames.

http://www.debunking911.com/quotes.htm

The link also points out that Ansar’s sources manage to exaggerate the number of testimonies by citing pieces of the same statement in separate places as if they were made by different people and are different quotes. For example, they did this to Paramedic Daniel Rivera and Stephen Gregory’s interview.
4053 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
M / Yo Mommas House
Offline
Posted 7/22/09
Seraph what I meant was your sources you quoted for someone who doesnt really know about this issue will sound credible. Like I stated this issue is about the same with homosexuality I didn't research it much. The research I did on it was like in 07 and I stopped it just didnt grab me as much as the Palestine/Israel conflict. I cannot speak on behalf on Ansar I sent him and email and he responded and will come and respond to this thread. I will continue to believe 9-11 was done on the inside although you provide a strong case for your view. I want to hear his answer to it as well. I dont get all my info from him though I did a lot of searching on the internet when I was interested in this topic. I am at work right now so I havent been able to dig through all your footnotes.
10452 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
27 / M
Offline
Posted 7/22/09 , edited 7/22/09

drizza wrote:

Seraph what I meant was your sources you quoted for someone who doesnt really know about this issue will sound credible. Like I stated this issue is about the same with homosexuality I didn't research it much. The research I did on it was like in 07 and I stopped it just didnt grab me as much as the Palestine/Israel conflict. I cannot speak on behalf on Ansar I sent him and email and he responded and will come and respond to this thread. I will continue to believe 9-11 was done on the inside although you provide a strong case for your view. I want to hear his answer to it as well. I dont get all my info from him though I did a lot of searching on the internet when I was interested in this topic. I am at work right now so I havent been able to dig through all your footnotes.


That’s what I meant when I asked if you just didn’t trust your own judgment. You don’t feel you’re informed enough o decipher truth from fiction so you maintain faith under the notion that there is an answer. That’s completely fine, nothing wrong with waiting to see if somebody can come up with a rebuttal before making up your mind.

Now, I have to ask you: didn’t you find his posts a little suspicious? I mean, what was with spending so much time talking about how Chertoff is Jewish? How does his race relate to the issue? Is he saying that Jews are suspicious? They’re certainly the corner of many, many conspiracy theories. Especially in the American Free Press he seems to love so much, repeatedly citing it and praising its articles.

Are we suggesting that 9/11 wouldn’t have happened if the Chertoff’s father hadn’t been a rabbi? This accusation that his mother was a Mossad agent is also interesting. Is it not possible that she’s just a Jewish immigrant? Now she has to be a spy? And his article, why is it okay to profile Jews but not Muslims? That all seeed highly racist to me. He spent more time talking about how the Jews are responsible than he did attepting to refute the Popular Mechanics. It's like how Islamweb spread that rumor that 4,000 Jews employed at the WTC took off work the day of the bombing. Or how nobody seemed to mind that five men were arrested for being, "Middle Eastern Looking."

The only reason people are associating Israel with the bombing is because it’s the Jewish state, and among neo-Nazi’s only Jews are cunning and deceitful enough to pull something like this off. The Anti-Defamation league did an investigation. All of these rumors, the Mossad agents, the arrested ‘spies’ (illegal immigrants working for a van company,) Chertoff being despicable simply because he’s Jewish…all of them originate with neo-Nazi news like "The Aryan Weekly," or extremist Arab-Muslim orginizations like "Islmaweb."
43 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
41
Offline
Posted 7/24/09
Drizza,

Thanks for sending me the email. I will go through the thread and respond specifically to what was written. So far I have not seen any refutation to anything I posted. Only someone's opinion on things. But I will respond directly shortly.
43 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
41
Offline
Posted 7/24/09
"Now, I have to ask you: didn’t you find his posts a little suspicious? I mean, what was with spending so much time talking about how Chertoff is Jewish? How does his race relate to the issue? Is he saying that Jews are suspicious? They’re certainly the corner of many, many conspiracy theories. Especially in the American Free Press he seems to love so much, repeatedly citing it and praising its articles."

I will respond to this quickly. SeraphAlford. Let's consider that with all the facts surrounding Michael Chertoff, that instead of Jewish he was Iranian. The double standard in your judgment can be easily seen. On a claim that 19 men of Muslim faith were responsible for 9/11, wars in Muslim countries were and are being fought under false pretense and more than 3 million Muslims have been killed since 9/11. When you add the thousands more who have been persecuted, falsely arrested, in Guantanamo and other places, charities shutdown and members jailed, tortured, etc, etc and all because of the association made with them being Muslims.

It amazes me how when it comes to Israel, people have selective blindness. As with Chertoff the following that I will list below are all TRUE about Israelis. Instead of Israelis, I will substitute Iranians. I wonder how many Israeli deniers would be so quick to deny Iranian involvement if the following statements were true about Iranians? I want to see them read this honestly and tell me what they really think.


So in regards to 911 we find the Iranians involved with many things. Strange wouldn’t you say that we don’t find Russians, Chinese, Italians or even Africans involved with events related to 911 as Iranians. Isn’t it just coincidental that the people involved just happens to be Iranians. Let's just look at a few mainstream reports about Iranian involvement with 911:

1. It was Iranians who were caught watching the WTC burn and crumble and celebrating it with joy. When the Lakers beat Sacramento for the NBA crown they celebrated. Why? Because their efforts were successful! The event, which was the championship game, they won. The Iranians, according to the eye witnesses who saw them on top of the van were ecstatic. They were joyful and why you ask? Because of America’s misery, America’s lost and thousands of innocent lives perishing. But to the Iranians this was success. They were ecstatic with joy because they too won the championship game!

To show that this joy was not local only to the 5 Iranians, look at what was said by and about their leaders:

Reactions from the Iranian side to the September attack:

Farooza Pourkey, terrorism expert at Khomeini University in Tehran, said "From the perspective of Iranians, it is the most important public relations act ever committed in our favor."

The attack "was good for the Iranians," "It is very good", said Mohammed Qahtani...before he caught himself and amended his statement.

In an interview with Le Monde, Ali Namazi, former Head of the Iranian Militia for the Republic of Iran, stated: "Since September 11, our leaders have been euphoric."



The reason why the Iranians failed lie detector tests is because the truth that they could not admit was we planned this. We pulled it off. We successfully created a Pearl Harbor incident to get the stupid goyim fully in bed with us. And just like we did in the time of Christ we are going to do today. We will get our media fully in bed with us to blame someone else for the crime. Yeah we were caught in the Lavon Affair, USS Liberty, etc. But we are ready now. The stakes are too high. “Yippee Aye Yay we are successful. Come on Ali let’s dance!!!”

2. It was Iranians whose van was stopped and maps and other paraphernalia were found leading the FBI to believe that they had definite involvement with 911.

3. It was the Iranian owner of the Moving van company that immediately shutdown his business, put his house up for sale and fled to Iran when his employees were caught. Aren’t these drastic actions and shouldn’t we want to know why the owner behaved that way?

4. It was Iranians who were caught spying on the US and lived in the same vicinity as the supposed “hijackers”.

5. It was Iranians who were part of a spy ring that Carl Cameron reported about in Foxx News saying that government officials stated that they had “tie-ins” to 911. By the way this news was suppressed and the story taken off the Foxx News website. The people responsible for that were IINSA (the Iranian Institute for National Security Affairs). IINSA President and CEO Faruddin Mosadeq is also a director of CAMERA (Committee for Accurate Middle East Reporting in America), the group that actually staged the e-mail, fax, letter, and phone call mobilization that squeezed Fox TV, to the point that they removed the transcripts of the four Carl Cameron segments from their own web site. I wonder why these American Iranians will be interested in doing such a thing?

6. It was Iranians who the following was reported about by U.S. government authorities when the Iranian spies were found: “An Iranian government spokesman reported a few days ago the news of arresting a number of Iranians by the US intelligence bodies in Florida. This might seem strange but what is more significant is the deliberate ignorance by the Iranian government of the reason for the arrests. The Iranians did not even mention the reason or the case for which their subjects were detained. The point is that a big quantity of the Anthrax germ was held with the Iranians when they were arrested. Moreover, the detainees had 15 charts of the New York Trade Center and eight charts of the Pentagon building which were attacked on September 11th. This is in addition to other six charts of the White House, which was among the would-be targets of the September 11th attacks. According to discreet US reports, the charts found with the Iranians had accurately drawn the Pentagon building and the World Trade Center and defined their geometric projections, as well as, precisely depicted the many floors. Further, some data included in the charts define the itineraries of civil passenger planes and their destinations!!!...”

7. It was Iranians who the Tehran Post reported about that 4000 were missing or expected to be dead as a result of doing business and working at the WTC on 911.

8. It was the Iranian general counsel Mohammad Nasruddin Mehdi who reported that out of the 4000 Iranians dead or missing actually only one was killed, a visitor. The statistics of this happening is IMPOSSIBLE. The only reason this could happen is if somehow Iranians were warned ahead of time about the planes crashing into the WTC. The natural question to ask is, are there any evidence of prior warnings of the impending WTC attacks given to anyone in the world? If there is let’s narrow the list down to see if any warnings happen to be given to Iranians. Well it just so happens that there were prior warnings and the only people in the world to receive them were Iranians!!!!

9. It was Iranians who received Odigo warnings two hours before the planes struck the WTC buildings. This was reported both in the Tehran Times and Washington Post newspapers. This is proof positive that someone who cares for the lives of Iranians knew that planes were going to be crashed into the WTC ahead of time and wanted to make sure Iranians were not killed. I am sure the identity of that person was not Bin laden. This succinctly explains why only one Iranian got killed on 911 although the number was expected to be as much as 4000.

10. It was Iranians who were armed with 9mm pistols, nine grenades, explosives, three detonators and 58 bullets and caught in Mexico in an attempt to blow the Mexican Congress up on October 10, 2001. The Iranians were booked for conspiracy to destroy a building by means of an explosive by the Mexican police. If they were successful in blowing up the Mexican Congress then like 911 it would have been blamed on Christian terrorists. They got caught red-handed here and only God knows how many other incidents that innocent Christians are being blamed for that were really done by Iranians.

11. General Gul, who at one time was a close ally of the U.S. and a staunch supporter of western values, who could have blamed 911 on his Russian or Indian enemies but instead choose to blame 911 on Iranians. This former director of the Pakistani Intelligence Service said un-categorically about 911 that “The Iranian Savak and its American associates are the obvious culprits.” Why did he just happen to also blame Iranians. Of course you would say he was biased, etc. I expect that from you but why didn’t he blame India or Russia who were far worse enemies to Pakistan than Iran? This was a man who was close to the American Secret Service leaders and their ally. How come he seems to know what Vreeland and other CIA operatives worldwide knew about 911?

12. The news about the impending attacks was known by even low ranking CIA agents like Delmart Vreeland. To prove it he wrote what was going to happen in August, 2001 in a sealed envelope while in prison in Canada and had his guards open the envelope on September 14th. Lo and behold he accurately predicted the attacks of 911. If he knew about this I am certain that many others in the CIA especially at higher levels knew about it also. As such this was a deliberate planned action set up to create a Pearl Harbor type event to cause the American government to take actions that the planners of this event wanted. With the complicity of the Iranian controlled news media the finger was solidly pointed on OBL, Al-Qaeda and the Taliban. They did not allow any suspicion to be pointed anywhere else. How convenient!!!

As an example of the many reports throughout the world implicating Iranian involvement in 911, here is a partial text of one from Canada’s Stern-Intel on September 17, 2001:

”A US military intelligence source revealed details of an internal intelligence memo that points to the Iranian Savak intelligence service having links to the World Trade Centre and Pentagon attacks.”

13. The U.S. Army School for Advanced Military Studies (SAMS), wrote this about the Iranian Savak which was reported about on September 10, 2001 one day before 911:

"Wildcard. Ruthless and cunning. Has capability to target U.S. forces and make it look like a Palestinian/Arab act."

BINGO! The very next day an “Arab act” took place against the U.S. and no suspicion or investigation was done based on this credible report from SAMS. As I said the finger was so firmly pointed against Bin Laden that even intelligent people were so suffocated by the Iranian press that no other questions were entertained.

14. An abnormal amount of put stock options were purchased against United and American Airlines one day before 911. Gee whiz I wonder why British Airways, Southwest Airlines, Continental or other Airlines did not have abnormally large amounts of put stock options purchases also? Why did it just so happen to be from the two airlines that were involved with the 911 incident? It was reported that many Iranians and even an ex-CIA director from Deutsche bank made huge profits on the purchase. One person made as much as $2,500,000.00 on the deal and when last reported did not come to pick up his money. How did all these people know that American and United Airlines stocks will drop so dramatically in value the next day??? I ask the same question as Michael Shore does in the following paragraph, Why? Also why did this story just drop from the media and no follow up was done? Another example of the media in cahoots with the planners of 911 to deflect attention from the obvious and keep the Americans firmly fixated on OBL as the only possibility for 911.

It would seem easy enough for the FBI and CIA to go to the stockbrokers where these trades were made and find out who made them. This is probably the closest link that can be established to someone who was involved in 911 but neither the FBI nor CIA is, apparently, pursuing this. Why?

15. When Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Hizbollah and other Palestinian groups commits an act of freedom against the brutal Israeli regime, no matter how small the numbers they kill of the enemy they take responsibility for it. That has been their pattern for a long time. Now the largest attack killing the most amount of “the enemy” Americans, instead of OBL boasting about it and even cheering like the Iranians did at the WTC he says the following: “I have already said that I am not involved in the 11 September attacks in the United States. As a Muslim, I try my best to avoid telling a lie. I had no knowledge of these attacks, nor do I consider the killing of innocent women, children and other humans as an appreciable act…”

This is quite significant because as successful as this act was it would have been something for OBL to boast about but instead he condemns it and distances himself from it. Very unlikely behavior for someone guilty and who would normally gloat at such a major accomplishment. The U.S. government claimed that it had proof which they never showed any of us. They claimed that they showed it to the Pakistani President but he also recently came out with a statement claiming that he believes that there is no way that OBL could have pulled off 911. What happened to the proof?

With all this evidence of Iranian involvement, corrupt U.S. government officials involvement and media complicity in covering and even dropping information that should be pursued and thoroughly investigated I ask the question why, why in the hell is any of this not being investigated? This is a mountain of evidence. Other evidence not discussed but also valid is how an Iranian company abruptly broke it’s lease with the WTC, incurring huge costs just weeks before 911, the many reports showing evidence that the WTC was blown up from within explaining how the buildings fell, no video or stills of any of the hijackers at Logan Airport, how did the U.S. government identify so quickly the identities of the hijackers and was able to fix the blame on OBL just a few hours after the event, the fact that 8 of the hijackers identified are still alive today, the many false reports about terrorists identities like the one recently of a Pakistani man who never left Pakistan in his life having his picture publicly broadcasted in the media, and I could go on and on.

What we have been told officially about 911 has more holes in it than aged cheese. It just does not add up. Yet serious actions are being taken against innocent Christians and thousands of lives are being lost and even more are being harassed and persecuted. Why isn’t our government investigating the huge pile of evidence pointing to the Iranians and why isn’t relations between the U.S. and Iran cooled? Why? Why? Why?

Along with this the Iranians have a consistent a consistent history of fraudulent actions costing the lives of millions of human beings.


4053 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
M / Yo Mommas House
Offline
Posted 7/24/09 , edited 7/24/09

Ansar wrote:

Drizza,

Thanks for sending me the email. I will go through the thread and respond specifically to what was written. So far I have not seen any refutation to anything I posted. Only someone's opinion on things. But I will respond directly shortly.


No problem nice to see you back ! I love the way you substituted Israeli for Iranians and Muslims for Christians since it is a country the US doesn't like it makes it easier for Americans to understand what you are trying to say.
10452 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
27 / M
Offline
Posted 7/24/09 , edited 7/25/09

Ansar I will respond to this quickly. SeraphAlford. Let's consider that with all the facts surrounding Michael Chertoff, that instead of Jewish he was Iranian. The double standard in your judgment can be easily seen. On a claim that 19 men of Muslim faith were responsible for 9/11, wars in Muslim countries were and are being fought under false pretense and more than 3 million Muslims have been killed since 9/11. When you add the thousands more who have been persecuted, falsely arrested, in Guantanamo and other places, charities shutdown and members jailed, tortured, etc, etc and all because of the association made with them being Muslims.

It amazes me how when it comes to Israel, people have selective blindness. As with Chertoff the following that I will list below are all TRUE about Israelis. Instead of Israelis, I will substitute Iranians. I wonder how many Israeli deniers would be so quick to deny Iranian involvement if the following statements were true about Iranians? I want to see them read this honestly and tell me what they really think.


See, now you’re judging me to be racially suspicious of Iranians prior to me expressing or demonstrating any suspicion of the Iranian people. That’s pre-judging. That’s prejudice. So, in your first post you demonstrated prejudice against the Jews by coloring Chertoff as suspicious while using his ethnicity as your highlighter. Now you’re going one step further and apparently generalizing and profiling anybody who supports Israel in an unrelated light.

I’m actually a Muslim sympathizer, and honestly I think Iran is more progressive than people give it credit for. About sixty percent of their university students, for example, are female. So, I’m going to request that you refrain from making prejudice assumptions surrounding my character.

You’re right. The discrimination against men because of their Iranian ethnicity is real and it’s wrong. No, yes. A lot of people are suspicious of others for being Iranian. That’s racist and unacceptable. But your apparent racism, or at least racial suspicion, against the Jews is every bit as abhorrent.

As far as not seeing any refutation, I think you’re dodging. I demonstrated several of your claims to be false, misleading, or at very least unreliable (say using a neo-Nazi newsletter as your only cited source) and you don’t have a way to defend it except to attack me and call me racist.
10452 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
27 / M
Offline
Posted 7/25/09

drizza wrote:


Ansar wrote:

Drizza,

Thanks for sending me the email. I will go through the thread and respond specifically to what was written. So far I have not seen any refutation to anything I posted. Only someone's opinion on things. But I will respond directly shortly.


No problem nice to see you back ! I love the way you substituted Israeli for Iranians and Muslims for Christians since it is a country the US doesn't like it makes it easier for Americans to understand what you are trying to say.


I understood what that article is trying to say. That being Israeli makes you suspicious. That’s profiling. Profiling Iranians is wrong, yes, but so is profiling Jews and Israelis. Don’t you agree on that note? It’s like Obama’s preacher made that racist speech against whites. Then a black reporter substituted ‘white’ for black and vice versa. When he read it over he finally realized why people that that the preacher’s teaching was so scary. But, shouldn’t it be scary either way? This document was racist rather you put Israeli, Jew, or Iranian.
43 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
41
Offline
Posted 7/25/09 , edited 7/25/09

SeraphAlford wrote:
As far as not seeing any refutation, I think you’re dodging. I demonstrated several of your claims to be false, misleading, or at very least unreliable (say using a neo-Nazi newsletter as your only cited source) and you don’t have a way to defend it except to attack me and call me racist.


You did not demonstrate anything. You just labeled RBN and hoped people would believe you. I invite everyone to check out RBN for themselves and to listen to the Mike Piper, Mark Glenn and some of the other shows and come with their own opinions. The link to the RBN site is:

http://republicbroadcasting.org/

You will find them much less racist and disgustingly bigoted than the 9 or so European countries that will put people in jail for just questioning the Holocaust. Chemist Germar Rudolph is in prison right now for several years for just doing scientific research and proving that Jews were not gassed in concentration camps. If the Holyhoax was so true then it would be open to scrutiny. But the schemers know it is a lie and they use it to suck money from western countries to feed the racist, imperialist and disgusting state known as Israel.

My friend since you could not rebut the info I wrote about Michael Chertoff, you attempted to rebut the source with nothing but name calling and your opinion. Truth belongs to God and even a criminal can tell truth. So that is a weak method to use to prove that something is wrong. But I won't give up on you. I will repeat what I wrote about Chertoff below and please prove any of it wrong. Of course his Rabbi father and Mossad mother is important. Their interest is in serving Israel. Do you think he would have let go 200+ spies in connection to 9/11 if they were Iranians? Muslims are being held in Guantanamo and in prisons for much less evidence than what was found with the Israeli spies. Yes, Zionist Jews has a real interest in 9/11 and having Muslims blamed. With that one event they got the US to be fully in bed with them and made Israel's enemies America's enemies. Of course Chertoff helped that process. Anyway here is what I wrote before. Please refute any fact that I made if you can:

"Let's take a look briefly at who wrote the so-called debunking article for Popular Mechanics. But first I hope we all know that Michael Chertoff is our Homeland Security chief. A little background on Mr. Chertoff for future reference. His mother was the first Israeli Mossad agent, his father was a Rabbi and he is a dual Israeli citizen. Under his orders the 200+ Israeli spies caught around the time of 9/11 and the Israeli Mossad agents who were caught videotaping the WTC 9/11 attacks, celebrating, hi-fying and dancing with glee -- while the WTC towers were burning and thousands of Americans were suffering and dying -- were all set free and deported to Israel. I think we all know that the Homeland Security Agency is an agency which owes its very existence to the establishment version of the 9/11 attack.

"Well now it just so happens that the person who wrote the Popular Mechanics seriously flawed and much debunked article, parroting the establishment version of 9/11 was none other than Benjamin Chertoff, Michael Chertoff's cousin. (Nice cousin ain't he making sure Mike's job is very secure. Image )"
Posted 7/25/09 , edited 7/25/09
Notice,

Updated opening post to include the shrew of resources you all have provided.

Many thanks goes to SeraphAlford for making this a most interesting discussion!
10452 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
27 / M
Offline
Posted 7/25/09 , edited 7/25/09

Ansar wrote:
You will find them much less racist and disgustingly bigoted than the 9 or so European countries that will put people in jail for just questioning the Holocaust. Chemist Germar Rudolph is in prison right now for several years for just doing scientific research and proving that Jews were not gassed in concentration camps. If the Holyhoax was so true then it would be open to scrutiny. But the schemers know it is a lie and they use it to suck money from western countries to feed the racist, imperialist and disgusting state known as Israel.


Now, you see what’s very interesting about this is that I’m German. So I actually know that Germar Rudolph, a famous holocaust denier back in Germany, was not arrested for doing scientific research. He was arrested for inciting racism against the Jews.

http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,2144,2386563,00.html

As far as his supposed proof that Jews were not gassed in concentration camps, you obviously haven’t even read the 'study.' First, he only researched Auschwitz. That’s one concentration camp, but of course there were many. Another would be Dachau. In addition, his ‘research,’ was later debunked by Richard J. Green. http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/chemistry/ and critically analyzed by Jamie McCarthy.

In Germany people have been arrested for looking up the photographic evidence of the Nazi atrocities, and German public schools don’t teach about the holocaust. They actually did a joke about that on Family Guy that made me laugh for months because it was so very true. Basically, we’re taught that there was a war. We’re told that we were the aggressors and that we lost. That’s about it, some people don’t even think Germany was the aggressor. One person we knew actually thought that Germany won the holocaust. Another was arrested for looking up images of the Jews at concentration camps on Google. Naturally, this is all first person testimony so I have no sources. Feel free to disregard this section.

I can confirm that Finkelstein, a famous holocaust minimizer, receives interviews with top German newspapers and his books are best sellers in Germany.

http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/nazis-beat-drums-of-war-in-germany/
http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/israeli-civil-libertarians-introduction-to-german-edition-of-beyond-chutzpah/


Ansar wrote: Jews were not gassed in concentration camps. If the Holyhoax was so true then it would be open to scrutiny.


So far you’ve claimed to be a physics professor. You immediately thereafter cited a neo-Nazi newsletter as a reliable source, expressing that you agree with its content. Then you pulled up a generally anti-Semitic article and expressed you undying and entire solidarity of its content. Now you’ve denied the holocaust, claiming that it’s a Jewish conspiracy.


My friend since you could not rebut the info I wrote about Michael Chertoff, you attempted to rebut the source with nothing but name calling and your opinion.


That’s called Generic Fallacy, and you obviously didn’t read my post.


"Let's take a look briefly at who wrote the so-called debunking article for Popular Mechanics. But first I hope we all know that Michael Chertoff is our Homeland Security chief. A little background on Mr. Chertoff for future reference. His mother was the first Israeli Mossad agent, his father was a Rabbi and he is a dual Israeli citizen. Under his orders the 200+ Israeli spies caught around the time of 9/11 and the Israeli Mossad agents who were caught videotaping the WTC 9/11 attacks, celebrating, hi-fying and dancing with glee -- while the WTC towers were burning and thousands of Americans were suffering and dying -- were all set free and deported to Israel. I think we all know that the Homeland Security Agency is an agency which owes its very existence to the establishment version of the 9/11 attack.

"Well now it just so happens that the person who wrote the Popular Mechanics seriously flawed and much debunked article, parroting the establishment version of 9/11 was none other than Benjamin Chertoff, Michael Chertoff's cousin. (Nice cousin ain't he making sure Mike's job is very secure. Image )"


Now, from my other post:


also from my other post:






"Well now it just so happens that the person who wrote the Popular Mechanics seriously flawed and much debunked article, parroting the establishment version of 9/11 was none other than Benjamin Chertoff, Michael Chertoff's cousin. (Nice cousin ain't he making sure Mike's job is very secure. Image )"


Benjamin hadn’t even heard of Michael until the incident. They're not related, they just happen to have the same last name. The rumor of course, was started by your favorite neo-Nazi newsletter.

http://911debunker.livejournal.com/7249.html

http://www.911myths.com/html/benjamin_chertoff.html

Moreover, let’s take a trip back to –your- accusation:


My friend since you could not rebut the info [... ] you attempted to rebut the source with nothing but name calling and your opinion.


Now, again:


"Well now it just so happens that the person who wrote the Popular Mechanics seriously flawed and much debunked article, parroting the establishment version of 9/11 was none other than Benjamin Chertoff, Michael Chertoff's cousin. (Nice cousin ain't he making sure Mike's job is very secure. Image )"


Generic Fallacy. First, you attack Popular Mechanic’s article via generic fallacy. Then you accuse me, without even reading my post, of doing this to you. So, here is what Popular Mechanics wrote. Please refute any fact that I made if you can:

http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/defense/1227842.html

Don't forget. Your previous attempt to use fraudulent research to debunk it was already obliterated, even if you chose not to see it and only see someone’s opinion and name calling.



You also dodged my post attacking the content of your other article, the one you're riding on to compensate for a lack of debate skills:

First  Prev  1  2  3  4  5  6  Next  Last
You must be logged in to post.