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The Power of a Documentary
Yei
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Posted 7/21/09 , edited 7/21/09

SeraphAlford wrote:


Yei wrote:


SeraphAlford wrote:


Yei
But apparently, anything by Micheal Moore is deceitful and his style specifically is not what I would consider an ideal documentary. Bowling for Columbine was very good because it made a lot of great points though. What are the best documentaries you've seen, other than that abortion one?


You mean excluding ones about ‘ancient civilizations and anima mating,’ then? Well, I watched a documentary from Lisa Ling (that reporter who’s always on Oprah and managed to infiltrate North Korea,) that seemed to be very good. Then again, I’ve never been to North Korea. I’m assuming her presentation of the communist country is accurate because I also read a book some time back written by a refugee from North Korea. And I heard the testimony of a Christian missionary who was arrested and put in North Korean prison for being Christian. All seem to agree on the treatment of Americans, foreigners, North Korean citizens, and religious poeple-especially Christians.


EDIT: I liked these a lot because they approached Korea from the humanitarian crisis front. Mostly all we hear about them is their nuclear program, which is also important but drowns out the other equally important issue.


That's it?

You should check out all the ones I described here: http://www.crunchyroll.com/forumtopic-533565/best-documentaries/

Especially Jesus Camp and Deliver Us From Evil. And I also loved The Tank Man (Tienanmen Square), Ghosts of Rwanda and The Devil Came on Horseback(Darfur).

Almost all of them can be seen on Youtube or Google vids.


Well, go ahead and give me a link and I’ll probably take some time to watch a couple of those. You should hook me up with a link to “For the Bible Tells me so,” as well. I’ll prolly watch that.


For the Bible Tells Me So: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04AVRslVRbY&feature=PlayList&p=5AF735132EB1CEC6&index=0

Has an epic intro^

Jesus Camp: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujS6URPcSUc

Deliver Us From Evil: http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=7745088455537169028&ei=FUFmStrSCKWgqgL45OSLAQ&hl=en (bad quality, but it shouldn't really be a problem)

tell me if you want any others
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Posted 7/21/09
I see a documentary like this if I see hard evidence which cannot be refuted and the only way to silence it is by calling someone a conspiracy theorist or he is just doing this for money dont work on me. I like to read facts and I am not swayed by name calling at all. If I was I would think every critic of Israel is an Anti-Semite. Some of these are bullshit and some of these are eye openers to let you see the other side of the story. It should be this way we shouldnt just up and believe something the first time we hear it lets hear both sides then we choose. Just because my government calls anything a conspiracy I am not going to follow along with it especially after the lies I am being fed on a daily basis by my media ESPECIALLY on foreign policy.
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Posted 7/22/09 , edited 7/22/09

Yei

For the Bible Tells Me So: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04AVRslVRbY&feature=PlayList&p=5AF735132EB1CEC6&index=0

Has an epic intro^

Jesus Camp: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujS6URPcSUc

Deliver Us From Evil: http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=7745088455537169028&ei=FUFmStrSCKWgqgL45OSLAQ&hl=en (bad quality, but it shouldn't really be a problem)

tell me if you want any others


I just finished watching “For the Bible Tells Me So,” and I enjoyed it very much. I can now add another name to my short list of good documentaries. One complaint I do have is that the cartoon bit, while amusing, can also be misleading. The part where they cite the twin test leaves out vital information. Twins are genetically identical, so if homosexuality is strictly genetic then both siblings would be gay. Now, seventy percent of the time this is true, but thirty percent it’s not. This actually suggests that there’s something else in play other than genetic and therefore the study’s conclusion was being manipulated. Only slightly, but it was. Also, each species has its own nature. Citing the homosexual tendency in one species to address what’s natural to another is silly.

All and all, fair, balance, and well done. The eighth segment of it made me cry. Am I a sissy or was that traumatizing?

Also, I think something the video might’ve mentioned is that the passage saying to kill homosexuals wasn’t a commandment. It was a mitzvah. The mitzvah were rules given to the Jews about how to govern their society to prosper. As they pointed out in the video, they needed to multiply. They need to procreate. The Jewish people, their culture, religion, and tradition would’ve been eradicated off the face of the earth a long time ago if they hadn’t been such a large minority.
Yei
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Posted 7/22/09

SeraphAlford wrote:


Yei

For the Bible Tells Me So: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04AVRslVRbY&feature=PlayList&p=5AF735132EB1CEC6&index=0

Has an epic intro^

Jesus Camp: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujS6URPcSUc

Deliver Us From Evil: http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=7745088455537169028&ei=FUFmStrSCKWgqgL45OSLAQ&hl=en (bad quality, but it shouldn't really be a problem)

tell me if you want any others


I just finished watching “For the Bible Tells Me So,” and I enjoyed it very much. I can now add another name to my short list of good documentaries. One complaint I do have is that the cartoon bit, while amusing, can also be misleading. The part where they cite the twin test leaves out vital information. Twins are genetically identical, so if homosexuality is strictly genetic then both siblings would be gay. Now, seventy percent of the time this is true, but thirty percent it’s not. This actually suggests that there’s something else in play other than genetic and therefore the study’s conclusion was being manipulated. Only slightly, but it was. Also, each species has its own nature. Citing the homosexual tendency in one species to address what’s natural to another is silly.

All and all, fair, balance, and well done. The eighth segment of it made me cry. Am I a sissy or was that traumatizing?

Also, I think something the video might’ve mentioned is that the passage saying to kill homosexuals wasn’t a commandment. It was a mitzvah. The mitzvah were rules given to the Jews about how to govern their society to prosper. As they pointed out in the video, they needed to multiply. They need to procreate. The Jewish people, their culture, religion, and tradition would’ve been eradicated off the face of the earth a long time ago if they hadn’t been such a large minority.


I don't think it claimed that the twins study meant it was 100% genetic, they just said it meant genes probably play a role. It says right in the beginning and throughout the cartoon that there are many factors to consider, not just genes. By definition, it is natural, because it is something that occurs by itself in nature. Natural = occurs by itself in nature, nature = the physical world not affected by people, so by definition it is natural.

Is the eighth segment the part where it shows and explains all the hate towards homosexuals? lol it was pretty sad, but I didn't cry. The woman's daughter who committed suicide and the situation that homosexual kids and adolescents in very religious families are in, is tragic and that almost made me cry.
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Posted 7/22/09 , edited 7/22/09

Yei
I don't think it claimed that the twins study meant it was 100% genetic, they just said it meant genes probably play a role. It says right in the beginning and throughout the cartoon that there are many factors to consider, not just genes. By definition, it is natural, because it is something that occurs by itself in nature. Natural = occurs by itself in nature, nature = the physical world not affected by people, so by definition it is natural.

Is the eighth segment the part where it shows and explains all the hate towards homosexuals? lol it was pretty sad, but I didn't cry. The woman's daughter who committed suicide and the situation that homosexual kids and adolescents in very religious families are in, is tragic and that almost made me cry.


That’s what you call a word game, it’s toying with which definition of the term we’re using. See, there are two forms of the word natural as demonstrated by these sentences:


It was a natural response for her to say no.
Natural forces sculpted the earth’s surface.

That would be like me swapping from an ethnic Jew to a religious Jew to prove my point. For example, if somebody said they disliked Jews because they’re homophobic beliefs and I called him racist. What he said wasn’t racist, because he was obviously referencing the religion. This is the number one error in any deductive argument.

The twin study they cited was used to argue that homosexuality was genetic and not a choice, this is the fallacy of limited choices. They did mention that there are several things scientists consider but the cartoon was arguing on a narrow premises than what it acknowledged other sources work on.

But yeah, it is a tragic thing and it really made me very sad. Shelly and I were pretty tight. She was a manager at my old work, the whole crew was family. She was also gay. I just kept picturing –her- face, she’s really pretty, when I was seeing all those gays beaten to death. And my uncle, who’s so kind and loving….

Natural:

1. of nature: relating to nature
natural history

2. conforming with nature: in accordance with the usual course of nature
natural signs of aging

3. produced by nature: present in or produced by nature, not artificial or synthetic
a natural sapphire

4. of physical world: relating to the physical rather than the spiritual world
striking natural features

5. like human nature: in accordance with human nature
It's only natural that they should want to be independent.

6. innate: inborn, rather than acquired
lots of natural charm

7. being something by nature: having a particular character by nature
a natural leader

8. not affected: behaving in a sincere and unaffected way and not affected or adopted for a special purpose
a natural manner

9. like real life: representing something in a way that seems true to life
10. biological: related by blood, rather than adoption
her natural mother

11. not sharp or flat: describes a note in music that is neither sharp nor flat
12. without sharps or flats: describes a musical key or scale containing no sharps or flats
13. without joker or wild card: not made using a joker or a wild card
a natural flush

14. illegitimate: born of unmarried parents (archaic)
a natural child


Encarta ® World English Dictionary © & (P) 1998-2005 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

There's also a part about people who are born with skill, like "He's a natural ball player," but i'm leaving that out.
Yei
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Posted 7/22/09 , edited 7/22/09

SeraphAlford wrote:


Yei
I don't think it claimed that the twins study meant it was 100% genetic, they just said it meant genes probably play a role. It says right in the beginning and throughout the cartoon that there are many factors to consider, not just genes. By definition, it is natural, because it is something that occurs by itself in nature. Natural = occurs by itself in nature, nature = the physical world not affected by people, so by definition it is natural.

Is the eighth segment the part where it shows and explains all the hate towards homosexuals? lol it was pretty sad, but I didn't cry. The woman's daughter who committed suicide and the situation that homosexual kids and adolescents in very religious families are in, is tragic and that almost made me cry.


That’s what you call a word game, it’s toying with which definition of the term we’re using. See, there are two forms of the word natural as demonstrated by these sentences:


It was a natural response for her to say no.
Natural forces sculpted the earth’s surface.

That would be like me swapping from an ethnic Jew to a religious Jew to prove my point. For example, if somebody said they disliked Jews because they’re homophobic beliefs and I called him racist. What he said wasn’t racist, because he was obviously referencing the religion. This is the number one error in any deductive argument.

The twin study they cited was used to argue that homosexuality was genetic and not a choice, this is the fallacy of limited choices. They did mention that there are several things scientists consider but the cartoon was arguing on a narrow premises than what it acknowledged other sources work on.

But yeah, it is a tragic thing and it really made me very sad. Shelly and I were pretty tight. She was a manager at my old work, the whole crew was family. She was also gay. I just kept picturing –her- face, she’s really pretty, when I was seeing all those gays beaten to death. And my uncle, who’s so kind and loving….

Natural:

1. of nature: relating to nature
natural history

2. conforming with nature: in accordance with the usual course of nature
natural signs of aging

3. produced by nature: present in or produced by nature, not artificial or synthetic
a natural sapphire

4. of physical world: relating to the physical rather than the spiritual world
striking natural features

5. like human nature: in accordance with human nature
It's only natural that they should want to be independent.

6. innate: inborn, rather than acquired
lots of natural charm

7. being something by nature: having a particular character by nature
a natural leader

8. not affected: behaving in a sincere and unaffected way and not affected or adopted for a special purpose
a natural manner

9. like real life: representing something in a way that seems true to life
10. biological: related by blood, rather than adoption
her natural mother

11. not sharp or flat: describes a note in music that is neither sharp nor flat
12. without sharps or flats: describes a musical key or scale containing no sharps or flats
13. without joker or wild card: not made using a joker or a wild card
a natural flush

14. illegitimate: born of unmarried parents (archaic)
a natural child


Encarta ® World English Dictionary © & (P) 1998-2005 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

There's also a part about people who are born with skill, like "He's a natural ball player," but i'm leaving that out.


I don't understand the point of using is like it is used in "It was a natural response for her to say no." Obviously it is natural in that sense. I don't think anyone would be displaying genuine homosexuality if they didn't feel it was "natural" in that sense. What most people mean by saying it's unnatural is that they can't have kids, so it's going against nature, I don't think many people use it in the other sense. But saying it's unnatural is an invalid argument either way.


You should watch Jesus Camp or Deliver us from Evil now.
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Posted 7/22/09

Yei
I don't understand the point of using is like it is used in "It was a natural response for her to say no." Obviously it is natural in that sense. I don't think anyone would be displaying genuine homosexuality if they didn't feel it was "natural" in that sense. What most people mean by saying it's unnatural is that they can't have kids, so it's going against nature, I don't think many people use it in the other sense. But saying it's unnatural is an invalid argument either way.


You should watch Jesus Camp or Deliver us from Evil now.


No, what they mean is that it’s not in human nature to be homosexual. For example, we tell our little girls, “It’s natural to start your period at this age,” but for other animals it of course isn’t natural. I agree with you, but the video was still playing a word game and this is still misleading. I’ll probably watch them here pretty quick. I’ll get back to you when I’ve seen them.
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Posted 7/23/09
Why arent there any Israel/Palestine documentaries? Fear of Biased? Good question posted by me.
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Posted 7/23/09
^
Are you sure?
Occupation 101


Well, the acceptance of any Info about any controversial issue as it is from documentaries or whatever source without evidences or trying to assert the truth is kind of naivety .
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digs 
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Posted 7/23/09
Documentaries can be good and informative. But many have a preset goal in mind and aren't necessarily seeking truth. They select info, use a spin on words, and sometimes distort the truth to bring about a desired result. We should take everything in and weigh it with contradictory evidence without our biases in order to really find what is true. Many documentaries are exist to simply make money.
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Posted 7/24/09 , edited 7/24/09

digs wrote:

Documentaries can be good and informative. But many have a preset goal in mind and aren't necessarily seeking truth. They select info, use a spin on words, and sometimes distort the truth to bring about a desired result. We should take everything in and weigh it with contradictory evidence without our biases in order to really find what is true. Many documentaries are exist to simply make money.


What if the documentary helps to bring out the Truth? Out of a million viewers, you are the only one stands out and oppose it. While the others change their attitudes on the certain thing. You are left behind. Yah maybe is for money, but what if the evidence is convincing? the people is convincing, does the directors deserve such money? They are trying to help us think through but our arrogance and ignorance blinds us. Whose to blame?
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Posted 7/24/09

Real_ZERO wrote:

^
Are you sure?
Occupation 101


Well, the acceptance of any Info about any controversial issue as it is from documentaries or whatever source without evidences or trying to assert the truth is kind of naivety .


ahhh yes i have found one!
Yei
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Posted 7/24/09
I forgot to mention "Jihad for Love", it's about gay Muslims and their situations. It made me cry it's disturbing and so tragic
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Posted 7/24/09

azera wrote:

Why arent there any Israel/Palestine documentaries? Fear of Biased? Good question posted by me.


Well, Sixty Minutes has done at least two that I know of. The first was about Israeli Apartheid in Westbank and the second was about Palestinian Pollywood. I can link you to both, if you like.
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Posted 7/24/09

SeraphAlford wrote:


azera wrote:

Why arent there any Israel/Palestine documentaries? Fear of Biased? Good question posted by me.


Well, Sixty Minutes has done at least two that I know of. The first was about Israeli Apartheid in Westbank and the second was about Palestinian Pollywood. I can link you to both, if you like.


Did you watch Jesus Camp or Deliver us from Evil yet?
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