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Posted 8/4/09

Yei wrote:


Abu Ghraib was worse than the Holocaust? People weren't tortured in the Holocaust?

And a valid excuse for being proud of the Holocaust and/or denying it, is that other bad things happened as well?

I think this is a good time to end the discussion. You're 13, you still haven't even taken history class in High School, right?


Again, your view is not wide. You only think it in one side. Abu Ghraib is much worse than Holocaust in terms of Humiliation, Torture Method and Evilness ( Look at te photos, the American soldiers smiling in front of naked body, dead body.)

While Nazi's people felt sick when they shot people after while they stopped it and just continue shooting people. That's all, if you have data or links about Nazi was torturing people like what America did in Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo, I'd like to look it.

Again, you only see it in humanity view, not in political view. If Germany honor Nazi, they won't get any benefit of it, just loss. While Japan honor their ancestors, it means a lot to raise their nationalism and etc....

Yeah, I think this is a good time to end it when you can't see from another point of view, as an invader and as a victim as well. Well, it's obvious from 17 years old in 1st world country who haven't experienced yourself, right?
Yei
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Posted 8/4/09 , edited 8/4/09

Ryutai-Desk wrote:


Yei wrote:


Abu Ghraib was worse than the Holocaust? People weren't tortured in the Holocaust?

And a valid excuse for being proud of the Holocaust and/or denying it, is that other bad things happened as well?

I think this is a good time to end the discussion. You're 13, you still haven't even taken history class in High School, right?


Again, your view is not wide. You only think it in one side. Abu Ghraib is much worse than Holocaust in terms of Humiliation, Torture Method and Evilness ( Look at te photos, the American soldiers smiling in front of naked body, dead body.)

While Nazi's people felt sick when they shot people after while they stopped it and just continue shooting people. That's all, if you have data or links about Nazi was torturing people like what America did in Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo, I'd like to look it.

Again, you only see it in humanity view, not in political view. If Germany honor Nazi, they won't get any benefit of it, just loss. While Japan honor their ancestors, it means a lot to raise their nationalism and etc....

Yeah, I think this is a good time to end it when you can't see from another point of view, as an invader and as a victim as well. Well, it's obvious from 17 years old in 1st world country who haven't experienced yourself, right?


No, I completely understand your views, but I guess I have to respectfully disagree. And the Holocaust wasn't just Nazis shooting people, btw, you should study it more.
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Posted 8/4/09

Yei wrote:


Ryutai-Desk wrote:

Again, your view is not wide. You only think it in one side. Abu Ghraib is much worse than Holocaust in terms of Humiliation, Torture Method and Evilness ( Look at te photos, the American soldiers smiling in front of naked body, dead body.)

While Nazi's people felt sick when they shot people after while they stopped it and just continue shooting people. That's all, if you have data or links about Nazi was torturing people like what America did in Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo, I'd like to look it.

Again, you only see it in humanity view, not in political view. If Germany honor Nazi, they won't get any benefit of it, just loss. While Japan honor their ancestors, it means a lot to raise their nationalism and etc....

Yeah, I think this is a good time to end it when you can't see from another point of view, as an invader and as a victim as well. Well, it's obvious from 17 years old in 1st world country who haven't experienced yourself, right?


No, I completely understand your views, but I guess I have to respectfully disagree. And the Holocaust wasn't just Nazis shooting people, btw, you should study it more.


You shouldn't understand my views which is limited, you should understand from all views which involved in this matter, the Invader who wanted to gain glory, the victims who had humiliated, and the global prejudice that will be arise if you honor or not honor them.

If you know more than me, why you don't say it now? I read in the first link you post in first post that Nazi felt sick after shot the civilians.
http://hnn.us/articles/14566.html but if you have more data about the torture done by Nazi, please post it.

"The crimes of the Japanese were so horrific that they almost made their German allies look civilized in comparison. Shooting someone is a terrible act. However, stabbing someone is truly horrific and takes a lot of effort. The victim is screaming and bleeding on the perpetrator who must push the blade in and out, over and over again.

By contrast, Nazi soldiers became ill and began to break down after a few hours of shooting people. Even Heinrich Himmler, the head of the dreaded SS and the concentration (extermination) camps, became ill, turned green and almost threw up while watching his men shoot civilians. Himmler decided there must be a more "humane" way of killing. Himmler was not concerned for the victims, helpless Jews, but the mental state of the Nazi soldier. "



Well actually, we shouldn't compare it, which is I think a bit unnecessary and cruel in respect of victims. And unrelated to the thread. Well, I already given all evidence and reasons why Japanese honoring their ancestors, though.
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Posted 8/4/09

Ryutai-Desk wrote:


Yei wrote:


Ryutai-Desk wrote:

Again, your view is not wide. You only think it in one side. Abu Ghraib is much worse than Holocaust in terms of Humiliation, Torture Method and Evilness ( Look at te photos, the American soldiers smiling in front of naked body, dead body.)

While Nazi's people felt sick when they shot people after while they stopped it and just continue shooting people. That's all, if you have data or links about Nazi was torturing people like what America did in Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo, I'd like to look it.

Again, you only see it in humanity view, not in political view. If Germany honor Nazi, they won't get any benefit of it, just loss. While Japan honor their ancestors, it means a lot to raise their nationalism and etc....

Yeah, I think this is a good time to end it when you can't see from another point of view, as an invader and as a victim as well. Well, it's obvious from 17 years old in 1st world country who haven't experienced yourself, right?


No, I completely understand your views, but I guess I have to respectfully disagree. And the Holocaust wasn't just Nazis shooting people, btw, you should study it more.


You shouldn't understand my views which is limited, you should understand from all views which involved in this matter, the Invader who wanted to gain glory, the victims who had humiliated, and the global prejudice that will be arise if you honor or not honor them.

If you know more than me, why you don't say it now? I read in the first link you post in first post that Nazi felt sick after shot the civilians.
http://hnn.us/articles/14566.html but if you have more data about the torture done by Nazi, please post it.

"The crimes of the Japanese were so horrific that they almost made their German allies look civilized in comparison. Shooting someone is a terrible act. However, stabbing someone is truly horrific and takes a lot of effort. The victim is screaming and bleeding on the perpetrator who must push the blade in and out, over and over again.

By contrast, Nazi soldiers became ill and began to break down after a few hours of shooting people. Even Heinrich Himmler, the head of the dreaded SS and the concentration (extermination) camps, became ill, turned green and almost threw up while watching his men shoot civilians. Himmler decided there must be a more "humane" way of killing. Himmler was not concerned for the victims, helpless Jews, but the mental state of the Nazi soldier. "



Well actually, we shouldn't compare it, which is I think a bit unnecessary and cruel in respect of victims. And unrelated to the thread. Well, I already given all evidence and reasons why Japanese honoring their ancestors, though.


It's hard to understand raping 80000 women and torturing 200000 people to death just for "fun", but I'll try.

Here's more info on the Holocaust: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust Only the really lucky people got shot.

And I already said, I don't think your reasons are good enough excuses for honoring evil and insanely cruel war criminals (not "their ancestors") and denying the truth about history. But we have to respectfully disagree.
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Posted 8/4/09

Yei wrote:


Ryutai-Desk wrote:

You shouldn't understand my views which is limited, you should understand from all views which involved in this matter, the Invader who wanted to gain glory, the victims who had humiliated, and the global prejudice that will be arise if you honor or not honor them.

If you know more than me, why you don't say it now? I read in the first link you post in first post that Nazi felt sick after shot the civilians.
http://hnn.us/articles/14566.html but if you have more data about the torture done by Nazi, please post it.

"The crimes of the Japanese were so horrific that they almost made their German allies look civilized in comparison. Shooting someone is a terrible act. However, stabbing someone is truly horrific and takes a lot of effort. The victim is screaming and bleeding on the perpetrator who must push the blade in and out, over and over again.

By contrast, Nazi soldiers became ill and began to break down after a few hours of shooting people. Even Heinrich Himmler, the head of the dreaded SS and the concentration (extermination) camps, became ill, turned green and almost threw up while watching his men shoot civilians. Himmler decided there must be a more "humane" way of killing. Himmler was not concerned for the victims, helpless Jews, but the mental state of the Nazi soldier. "



Well actually, we shouldn't compare it, which is I think a bit unnecessary and cruel in respect of victims. And unrelated to the thread. Well, I already given all evidence and reasons why Japanese honoring their ancestors, though.


It's hard to understand raping 80000 women and torturing 200000 people to death just for "fun", but I'll try.

Here's more info on the Holocaust: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust Only the really lucky people got shot.

And I already said, I don't think your reasons are good enough excuses for honoring evil and insanely cruel war criminals (not "their ancestors") and denying the truth about history. But we have to respectfully disagree.


Don't understand it in that way, that'll makes you insane and it's inhuman.
What I meant is understand the nation's desire to attain glory when they invade other nation. It's inevitable you killed so many people to occupy a nation.

Well, it's okay if you said 'lucky' to people who got shot. Yes, it's 'lucky' to get shoot while others get tortured, but Australia and America doing it right now and no one in 1st world countries says their act is wrong or at least trying to prevent it through international laws or whatsoever.

And which reasons I provided not good enough? If you are really Japanese, you should understand the culture and tradition of Japanese which is like to honor people, Gods and other things as well.


Yei
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Posted 8/4/09

Ryutai-Desk wrote:


Yei wrote:


Ryutai-Desk wrote:

You shouldn't understand my views which is limited, you should understand from all views which involved in this matter, the Invader who wanted to gain glory, the victims who had humiliated, and the global prejudice that will be arise if you honor or not honor them.

If you know more than me, why you don't say it now? I read in the first link you post in first post that Nazi felt sick after shot the civilians.
http://hnn.us/articles/14566.html but if you have more data about the torture done by Nazi, please post it.

"The crimes of the Japanese were so horrific that they almost made their German allies look civilized in comparison. Shooting someone is a terrible act. However, stabbing someone is truly horrific and takes a lot of effort. The victim is screaming and bleeding on the perpetrator who must push the blade in and out, over and over again.

By contrast, Nazi soldiers became ill and began to break down after a few hours of shooting people. Even Heinrich Himmler, the head of the dreaded SS and the concentration (extermination) camps, became ill, turned green and almost threw up while watching his men shoot civilians. Himmler decided there must be a more "humane" way of killing. Himmler was not concerned for the victims, helpless Jews, but the mental state of the Nazi soldier. "



Well actually, we shouldn't compare it, which is I think a bit unnecessary and cruel in respect of victims. And unrelated to the thread. Well, I already given all evidence and reasons why Japanese honoring their ancestors, though.


It's hard to understand raping 80000 women and torturing 200000 people to death just for "fun", but I'll try.

Here's more info on the Holocaust: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust Only the really lucky people got shot.

And I already said, I don't think your reasons are good enough excuses for honoring evil and insanely cruel war criminals (not "their ancestors") and denying the truth about history. But we have to respectfully disagree.


Don't understand it in that way, that'll makes you insane and it's inhuman.
What I meant is understand the nation's desire to attain glory when they invade other nation. It's inevitable you killed so many people to occupy a nation.

Well, it's okay if you said 'lucky' to people who got shot. Yes, it's 'lucky' to get shoot while others get tortured, but Australia and America doing it right now and no one in 1st world countries says their act is wrong or at least trying to prevent it through international laws or whatsoever.

And which reasons I provided not good enough? If you are really Japanese, you should understand the culture and tradition of Japanese which is like to honor people, Gods and other things as well.


I know all about Japanese culture and it's part of the problem, but it's still no excuse. Believe it or not, but many Germans don't want to honor Hitler because he was evil and tortured millions of people to death based on their race. Being moral human beings, they see him as something to be ashamed of, not honored. Many people don't want Japanese war criminals to be honored for the same reasons, it's very simple. You don't honor extremely evil people. And you don't brainwash people in your country to believe you did nothing wrong in WW2.
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Posted 8/4/09

Yei wrote:


Ryutai-Desk wrote:

Don't understand it in that way, that'll makes you insane and it's inhuman.
What I meant is understand the nation's desire to attain glory when they invade other nation. It's inevitable you killed so many people to occupy a nation.

Well, it's okay if you said 'lucky' to people who got shot. Yes, it's 'lucky' to get shoot while others get tortured, but Australia and America doing it right now and no one in 1st world countries says their act is wrong or at least trying to prevent it through international laws or whatsoever.

And which reasons I provided not good enough? If you are really Japanese, you should understand the culture and tradition of Japanese which is like to honor people, Gods and other things as well.


I know all about Japanese culture and it's part of the problem, but it's still no excuse. Believe it or not, but many Germans don't want to honor Hitler because he was evil and tortured millions of people to death based on their race. Being moral human beings, they see him as something to be ashamed of, not honored. Many people don't want Japanese war criminals to be honored for the same reasons, it's very simple. You don't honor extremely evil people. And you don't brainwash people in your country to believe you did nothing wrong in WW2.


If you're really Japanese the why you don't have a bit nationalism and 'Samurai Blood' to defend your country ? It's weird, well if you have affected by western culture, then it can't be helped.

If German doesn't want to honor them because of their evilness then why Australia and America... etc still honor /respect their armies of what they did in middle east and to minority like Indian tribe and Aborigine?

It because of power of nation in the world, you should see it from political view as well, as a politician, as a leader of a country, not as mere human beings.
Yei
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Posted 8/5/09

Ryutai-Desk wrote:


Yei wrote:


Ryutai-Desk wrote:

Don't understand it in that way, that'll makes you insane and it's inhuman.
What I meant is understand the nation's desire to attain glory when they invade other nation. It's inevitable you killed so many people to occupy a nation.

Well, it's okay if you said 'lucky' to people who got shot. Yes, it's 'lucky' to get shoot while others get tortured, but Australia and America doing it right now and no one in 1st world countries says their act is wrong or at least trying to prevent it through international laws or whatsoever.

And which reasons I provided not good enough? If you are really Japanese, you should understand the culture and tradition of Japanese which is like to honor people, Gods and other things as well.


I know all about Japanese culture and it's part of the problem, but it's still no excuse. Believe it or not, but many Germans don't want to honor Hitler because he was evil and tortured millions of people to death based on their race. Being moral human beings, they see him as something to be ashamed of, not honored. Many people don't want Japanese war criminals to be honored for the same reasons, it's very simple. You don't honor extremely evil people. And you don't brainwash people in your country to believe you did nothing wrong in WW2.


If you're really Japanese the why you don't have a bit nationalism and 'Samurai Blood' to defend your country ? It's weird, well if you have affected by western culture, then it can't be helped.

If German doesn't want to honor them because of their evilness then why Australia and America... etc still honor /respect their armies of what they did in middle east and to minority like Indian tribe and Aborigine?

It because of power of nation in the world, you should see it from political view as well, as a politician, as a leader of a country, not as mere human beings.


I told you, I love Japan and Japanese culture, but I don't love evil war criminals. It doesn't mean you're unpatriotic or against the country if you don't like the idea of honoring monsters who led the rape and murder of hundreds of thousands of innocent people.

Actually, I think you have to like the country more to be bothered by that, the less patriotic person wouldn't really mind, but you have to really respect the country to hate seeing it brought down to this level.
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Posted 8/6/09
never believe the chinese or americans, we did nothing like that.
Yei
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Posted 8/6/09

Kenshin1986 wrote:

never believe the chinese or americans, we did nothing like that.


Nothing like what? Nanking?

That's just a part of all the well-known horrible things Japan did in WW2. Did you learn history in Japan?
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Posted 8/6/09

Yei wrote:


Kenshin1986 wrote:

never believe the chinese or americans, we did nothing like that.


Nothing like what? Nanking?

That's just a part of all the well-known horrible things Japan did in WW2. Did you learn history in Japan?


not much but i did my own research as i did some history electives in university. A lot of the things published are a propaganda scene to get the japanese government to apologies, by throwing out false statements against japan. Sure nanking happened but at the degree which chinese and others state isn't true.



Yei
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Posted 8/6/09

Kenshin1986 wrote:


Yei wrote:


Kenshin1986 wrote:

never believe the chinese or americans, we did nothing like that.


Nothing like what? Nanking?

That's just a part of all the well-known horrible things Japan did in WW2. Did you learn history in Japan?


not much but i did my own research as i did some history electives in university. A lot of the things published are a propaganda scene to get the japanese government to apologies, by throwing out false statements against japan. Sure nanking happened but at the degree which chinese and others state isn't true.



But is it to the degree that Japanese soldiers and generals and the foreigners who were there, say it was?

We had fun killing Chinese. We caught some innocent Chinese and either buried them alive, or pushed them into a fire, or beat them to death with clubs. When they were half dead we pushed them into ditches and burned them, torturing them to death. Everyone gets his entertainment this way. Its like killing dogs and cats. --Asahi Shimbun, Japanese soldier, describing Japanese atrocities during the Rape of Nanking
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Posted 8/6/09

Yei wrote:


Kenshin1986 wrote:


Yei wrote:


Kenshin1986 wrote:

never believe the chinese or americans, we did nothing like that.


Nothing like what? Nanking?

That's just a part of all the well-known horrible things Japan did in WW2. Did you learn history in Japan?


not much but i did my own research as i did some history electives in university. A lot of the things published are a propaganda scene to get the japanese government to apologies, by throwing out false statements against japan. Sure nanking happened but at the degree which chinese and others state isn't true.



But is it to the degree that Japanese soldiers and generals and the foreigners who were there, say it was?

We had fun killing Chinese. We caught some innocent Chinese and either buried them alive, or pushed them into a fire, or beat them to death with clubs. When they were half dead we pushed them into ditches and burned them, torturing them to death. Everyone gets his entertainment this way. Its like killing dogs and cats. --Asahi Shimbun, Japanese soldier, describing Japanese atrocities during the Rape of Nanking


can you prove this statement is true?

False statements are always published to make the loser of the war look bad and it can also be used as a way to frighten others.
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Posted 8/6/09

Kenshin1986 wrote:

can you prove this statement is true?

False statements are always published to make the loser of the war look bad and it can also be used as a way to frighten others.


There was enough proof gathered at the end of WW2, at the Tokyo Trials, as there was in the Nuremberg Trials. So if you believe the facts about the Nazi Holocaust, there's no reason not to believe the facts about the Asian Holocaust.
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Posted 8/6/09
日本国民は戦争を放棄している。
それで。。
戦いは人間の獣性をよびおこす。
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