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Fansubs, simulcasts, DVDs and you.
Mahzes 
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Posted 8/2/09 , edited 8/2/09
Following on from my last topic, this is another discussion I'm hoping will be useful for my dissertation;

Where do you personally stand in regard to fansubs, legal streaming and DVDs? Do you buy DVDs for any, some or all of the series you follow, if they’re available?
Do you see fansubs as a replacement for DVDs? What are fansubs to you personally?

From what I can tell so far, the main motivations for downloading fansubs is usually either a lack of willingness or ability to pay for legal alternatives, an actual lack of legal alternatives, or a massive distance between legal releases and current new episodes. Personally, it varies quite a bit with me. I think that for me, the main factors are availability of the show legally, how much I actually like the series, and how long the series is.

Let me explain that in a bit more depth. I think in general, I won’t really purchase something that I haven’t already seen, for a start, which is perhaps somewhat ironic. I’ll watch something for free (online, legally or otherwise, or on TV), then make a purchase depending on a number of factors- most important perhaps being how much I like what I’ve seen. For example, I currently follow Naruto and One Piece (among other series, which I’ll get to later)- I buy Naruto legally (both DVDs and manga volumes), yet resort to fansubs and manga scans for One Piece.

Of course, there’s no real legal alternative for One Piece in the UK anyway, what with no UK DVD releases and no simulcasts (and even when they were planned, they were region blocked to US-only as it is). Whilst the manga is available in the UK, it’s very far behind, and even though ViZ will shortly be catching up with the One Piece manga, I still probably won’t get it, nor admittedly would I be likely to buy that many One Piece DVDs were they to come out here. Whilst I do admittedly prefer Naruto to One Piece slightly, I personally feel as though it’s the sheer number of episodes and manga volumes that puts me off- Naruto is already a long, ongoing series, which is currently taking up a lot of my shelf space and requires a considerable amount financially to purchase in its entirety. I suppose I feel as though legally purchasing more than one long-running series is just a bit much, both in terms of physical space that the books and DVDs would occupy, as well as the costs incurred by buying so many episodes.

As for other series, like I’ve said, I’ll usually watch them before making a purchase decision as it is. I suppose in that sense fansubs serve as a sort of ‘try before you buy’ for me.

I kind of wish that more shows would go up on Crunchyroll or similar site, though- that way I could watch series for cheap or free without having to feel as though I’m stealing them. And at the same time, I’m still then able to make DVD purchases (provided they’re released here) for the ones that I especially like. And if not, then I can still watch them legally without them having to take up shelf (or disk) space.

Oh, and another point I should probably make is that, despite buying the English Naruto manga and having an anime membership, I still read the manga scans online in order to read them as soon as possible, despite having a full intention to buy them once they’re available. I also admittedly sometimes download fansubs or rips of Naruto episodes I’ve seen legally via my paid Crunchyroll subscription, for the sake of being able to play them on TV. Of course, I still plan on buying the DVDs once they’re here, but still.

I’m not sure how well I’ve put what I’m trying to convey here, but I’ll try and narrow things down again- what factors determine whether you opt for fansubs, simulcasts or DVD purchases? How much anime do you follow legally as opposed to not, and why?
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Posted 8/2/09 , edited 8/2/09
I've been watching Naruto on Narutofan.com at first, then on here. I esp. watch Shangrila on Crunchyroll, And Shugo Chara, two series that have been slow to come up on Narutofan. As for the manga, I'll admit that it's easier to read online than buy, due to the fact of not having to wait 3-4 months or more for volumes. DVDs? Well, I only collect what I'm truly working on right now, and it hasn't been much as of late. Either way, with me being in the military, it's less DVD's/manga I have to carry when I move, and less stuff that might get chewed on by the baby!
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Posted 8/2/09 , edited 8/2/09
can u shorten it 4 me :p i dont want to read all of it
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Posted 8/2/09 , edited 8/2/09
Ever since the bullshit from 4Kids, I'll always see Fansubs better...

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54 / M / Tulsa, OK
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Posted 8/2/09 , edited 8/2/09

holy_may wrote:

Ever since the bullshit from 4Kids, I'll always see Fansubs better...



So buying the legit DVD boxsets is beneath you eh? People like you need to wake-up to reality and realize that your mindset is what will eventually kill the anime industry. By the way fansubs do have their place but try supporting the industry as well!
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Posted 8/2/09 , edited 8/2/09

otaku1964 wrote:


holy_may wrote:

Ever since the bullshit from 4Kids, I'll always see Fansubs better...



So buying the legit DVD boxsets is beneath you eh? People like you need to wake-up to reality and realize that your mindset is what will eventually kill the anime industry. By the way fansubs do have their place but try supporting the industry as well!


Screw DVD, I don't use disk anymore
The only anime industry that I will kill would only be the American company. Talk of knowing your stuff...
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Posted 8/2/09 , edited 8/2/09

otaku1964 wrote:


holy_may wrote:

Ever since the bullshit from 4Kids, I'll always see Fansubs better...



So buying the legit DVD boxsets is beneath you eh? People like you need to wake-up to reality and realize that your mindset is what will eventually kill the anime industry. By the way fansubs do have their place but try supporting the industry as well!




Scratch that... I was being too arrogant because I just woke up. Still you can't force people to buy and even if the industry died, people would move on. That's how morbid and crazy life is now
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Posted 8/2/09 , edited 8/2/09
I was not attempting to rehash and old argument. You are free to spend your money as you like however if the industry dies just what do those that refuse to pay anything go to after anime crashes and burns?
I spend my money on the product just as I also have downloaded fansubs. I to purchase those things that I like and no one twists my to do so. However, it would seem that the culture of everything should be free has reached a point that may destroy the product the consumer wants and as I stated earlier, what will the ones who caused the crash move on to. After all the cycle will only be repeated.
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Posted 8/2/09 , edited 8/2/09

otaku1964 wrote:

I was not attempting to rehash and old argument. You are free to spend your money as you like however if the industry dies just what do those that refuse to pay anything go to after anime crashes and burns?
I spend my money on the product just as I also have downloaded fansubs. I to purchase those things that I like and no one twists my to do so. However, it would seem that the culture of everything should be free has reached a point that may destroy the product the consumer wants and as I stated earlier, what will the ones who caused the crash move on to. After all the cycle will only be repeated.


I use my money otherwise. Instead of buying DVD, I go for new technology products. I am planning to buy a new monitor as example. In that case, I would be helping the economy at some extent. Sure, it's not helping the so-called Anime company (especially the American ones) but I don't even the english dub + the subtitle made from those dubs. As I said, I'm not giving back the chance to those companies anytime soon.

Just to brag and make you anger yourself, 5500 Gb of anime in my hard drive. I've only spent 1 500$ in those past 3 years on Anime which is not a lot. Do the math and calculate how much I got of anime if you take 26 episodes x 5-8Gb as average. Along with a whole DVD set of Anime for ***$, (I think it was around 20$ for 4 episodes)
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Posted 8/2/09 , edited 8/2/09

holy_may wrote:


otaku1964 wrote:


holy_may wrote:

Ever since the bullshit from 4Kids, I'll always see Fansubs better...



So buying the legit DVD boxsets is beneath you eh? People like you need to wake-up to reality and realize that your mindset is what will eventually kill the anime industry. By the way fansubs do have their place but try supporting the industry as well!


Screw DVD, I don't use disk anymore
The only anime industry that I will kill would only be the American company. Talk of knowing your stuff...


Unfortuately you have only proven my point. And since when do you really know anything. After all if you kill the region 1 industry then the Japanese industry may not survive, after all if they lose one once profitable market then how do they manage to make enough money to put out more of those illustrious titles that we have been so lucky to enjoy.
Mahzes 
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Posted 8/2/09 , edited 8/2/09
Whilst you're all making valid points here, I think you're missing the main concept just a bit.

I want to know what, for you personally, is the main reason you either buy DVDs or download fansubs, etc.

Do you download fansubs so you don't have to buy DVDs? Do you download them so you get to see them early and then buy the DVDs anyway later on? Or do you download them for certain shows because there's no legal way of seeing them in your country?

Also, what is your opinion on long, ongoing series? Does the length of these shows put you off wanting to buy DVDs of them, because you know you'll be spending a lot on them for a long time?
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Posted 8/2/09 , edited 8/2/09

otaku1964 wrote:


holy_may wrote:


otaku1964 wrote:


holy_may wrote:

Ever since the bullshit from 4Kids, I'll always see Fansubs better...



So buying the legit DVD boxsets is beneath you eh? People like you need to wake-up to reality and realize that your mindset is what will eventually kill the anime industry. By the way fansubs do have their place but try supporting the industry as well!


Screw DVD, I don't use disk anymore
The only anime industry that I will kill would only be the American company. Talk of knowing your stuff...


Unfortuately you have only proven my point. And since when do you really know anything. After all if you kill the region 1 industry then the Japanese industry may not survive, after all if they lose one once profitable market then how do they manage to make enough money to put out more of those illustrious titles that we have been so lucky to enjoy.


Since when Japanese industry rely on other region to make profit? Their main target are the Japanese themselves. Outside regions simply buy the rights so they can put their language dubbing along with their official subs. You do know that direct translation from jap => eng is impossible. Honorific as example.

You make it seems like the only way for Japanese company to make profit is through America which is a false assumption of yours.
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Posted 8/2/09 , edited 8/2/09

Mahzes wrote:

Whilst you're all making valid points here, I think you're missing the main concept just a bit.

I want to know what, for you personally, is the main reason you either buy DVDs or download fansubs, etc.

Do you download fansubs so you don't have to buy DVDs? Do you download them so you get to see them early and then buy the DVDs anyway later on? Or do you download them for certain shows because there's no legal way of seeing them in your country?

Also, what is your opinion on long, ongoing series? Does the length of these shows put you off wanting to buy DVDs of them, because you know you'll be spending a lot on them for a long time?


I rather download than buying, I always hated the dubbing, the official subs are pretty much useless.

Here's an excellent example of what fansub can do while official company can't do (Crunchyroll included)





The one at the top is by Eclipse Production, founder of the Quality speedsubs fansubs group. Their work are above official subs. Including Karaoke effect in their opening/ending theme, you can't get that from Official Legal releases.

To answer your question on ongoing series, the only ongoing series that I like is One Piece, but as I stated, fansubs > official subs because of the lexicon used. Take example of Kaizoku-Fansubs






This is true professional work at their best and reason why Funimation didn't send Cease & Desist letter is because, K-F supporters will 100% hate Funimation if they were to do such reckless action. It is because of K-F that One Piece is well known worldwide in the Internet*.

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Posted 8/2/09 , edited 8/2/09
I prefer to watch anime before I buy anything. That way I only spend my money on the shows I really like. Being as the TV networks in America seem to have less and less anime as time goes on, legal streaming online through either commercial paid advertising or paid subscriptions is the next best thing on a broad scale. I like it because I get to watch the shows in Japanese this way and only an hour or more after they air in Japan.

The accuracy of subtitling is of little importance to me because I speak Japanese. I do notice problems all the time from both fansubbers and the licensee's (including CR) so that is unfortunate for many viewers.

When it comes to what is available and where, I try to stay legit... but should that not be possible or not to my satisfaction I will improvise and appreciate the contributions from some fansubbers or raw providers (excluding those that rip off content that is otherwise provided legally in my region. ei horriblesubz).

-moose
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Posted 8/2/09 , edited 8/3/09

mozychan wrote:

I prefer to watch anime before I buy anything. That way I only spend my money on the shows I really like. Being as the TV networks in America seem to have less and less anime as time goes on, legal streaming online through either commercial paid advertising or paid subscriptions is the next best thing on a broad scale. I like it because I get to watch the shows in Japanese this way and only an hour or more after they air in Japan.

The accuracy of subtitling is of little importance to me because I speak Japanese. I do notice problems all the time from both fansubbers and the licensee's (including CR) so that is unfortunate for many viewers.

When it comes to what is available and where, I try to stay legit... but should that not be possible or not to my satisfaction I will improvise and appreciate the contributions from some fansubbers or raw providers (excluding those that rip off content that is otherwise provided legally in my region. ei horriblesubz).

-moose


horriblesub is dead
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