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Something that is Good for Developing Your Debating Skills!!
Posted 8/15/09
The thing about US comics, when it comes to Marvel and DC, there is no consistency.
Each character is being handled by several authors at once. Thus, making that character have different stories and personalities/skills.
Not to mention, they like to wedge stories within other stories. They're trying to squeeze a story that can no longer fit. Keep squeezing it, see how would make the future stories look laughable.

Well, if that happens, they end up publishing "What If... [insert hero/villain here] [insert end result]" to compensate for any misleadings.

meh.


Furthermore, check out Spider Man. In one cartoon, he needed to chemically create his own web (in a made-up laboratory). On the other, like the movie, he naturally inherited it.


Now, try to say this (for fun) to a US comic owner and you'll be surprise if he becomes speechless about it.

eheh. >.^

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Posted 8/15/09 , edited 8/15/09

kyoukoujin wrote:

The thing about US comics, when it comes to Marvel and DC, there is no consistency.
Each character is being handled by several authors at once. Thus, making that character have different stories and personalities/skills.
Not to mention, they like to wedge stories within other stories. They're trying to squeeze a story that can no longer fit. Keep squeezing it, see how would make the future stories look laughable.

Well, if that happens, they end up publishing "What If... [insert hero/villain here] [insert end result]" to compensate for any misleadings.

meh.


Furthermore, check out Spider Man. In one cartoon, he needed to chemically create his own web (in a made-up laboratory). On the other, like the movie, he naturally inherited it.


Now, try to say this (for fun) to a US comic owner and you'll be surprise if he becomes speechless about it.

eheh. >.^



That's why he said only canonical information can be used in the debate, and since Stan Lee created Sandman then only his version of Sandman is valid in this situation.

The original Spider-man used web cartridges btw, and Stan Lee is obviously aware of his natural webs in the movies since he appeared in all 3 of them, so it wouldn't surprise him. He'd just tell you that his orginial creation couldn't naturally produce webs. The movies aren't very accurate to the comics.
Posted 8/15/09

Cuddlebuns wrote:


kyoukoujin wrote:

The thing about US comics, when it comes to Marvel and DC, there is no consistency.
Each character is being handled by several authors at once. Thus, making that character have different stories and personalities/skills.
Not to mention, they like to wedge stories within other stories. They're trying to squeeze a story that can no longer fit. Keep squeezing it, see how would make the future stories look laughable.

Well, if that happens, they end up publishing "What If... [insert hero/villain here] [insert end result]" to compensate for any misleadings.

meh.


Furthermore, check out Spider Man. In one cartoon, he needed to chemically create his own web (in a made-up laboratory). On the other, like the movie, he naturally inherited it.


Now, try to say this (for fun) to a US comic owner and you'll be surprise if he becomes speechless about it.

eheh. >.^



That's why he said only canonical information can be used in the debate, and since Stan Lee created Sandman then only his version of Sandman is valid in this situation.

The original Spider-man used web cartridges btw. The movies aren't very accurate to the comics.


Oh. I'm no longer debating on that post.

I was just stating my opinion about US comics, that's all.

Sorry for any misleading. eheh. >.^
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Posted 8/15/09 , edited 8/15/09

Cuddlebuns wrote:

I don't think the Spectacular Spider-man or anything outside of the comics could really be considered canon, since they aren't created by Stan Lee. The original Sandman created by Lee didn't have many of the powers that he has in the movies and recent cartoons, and water was his main weakness. So if the debate is limited to canonical material, Sandman wouldn't be nearly as invincible as he is depicted in the cartoon, and I think he wouldn't be able to become as huge as he is able to now nor have the stamina that he does now. I've never read the comics, but my older brother has, and he has told me that Sandman is a lot more badass now than he was in the comics, and that he never turned into the invincible colossus that he is now. He also mentioned that Spider-man was able to harm him with punches and physical objects if he caught him off-guard.

Therefore, Gaara could simply lure him to water or possibly possess better sand-control skills than the canonical Sandman. I can't say for sure since I don't know the full extent of Gaara's powers (I hate Naruto and stopped watching when Shippuden started) or the original Sandman's powers, but based on what I've seen in his fights against Rock Lee and Naruto, I can guess that Garaa would be able to use the demon thing inside him to take out Sandman.

I have seen Gaara use the demon it made it more easy for Naruto to hit Gaara. He loses his defense shield wen he lets out the demon.
'85 tons of force in the shape of a lance from a 70 foot tall sandman should be able to kill Gaara. 'If Sandman does not turn into a 70 foot tall man, he can still move through the demon that is composed of sand and Kill Gaara wile he is defenseless. 'Just the shear power alone would be enough to brake through Gaara sand shield so I do not see what we are debating.

I used Fantastic Spider man, because it is the closest cartoon to the canon comic.

Anyhow Naruto cartoon is not canon as well, if I was to say cartoon vs cartoon than we use there cartoon powers and not there manga powers.


Ok we are getting way off topic. this was talking about how Vs threads are good for working on ones debating skills not a vs thread it self.
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Posted 8/15/09

Darkphoenix3450
I have seen Gaara use the demon it made it more easy for Naruto to hit Gaara. He loses his defense shield wen he lets out the demon.
'85 tons of force in the shape of a lance from a 70 foot tall sandman should be able to kill Gaara. 'If Sandman does not turn into a 70 foot tall man, he can still move through the demon that is composed of sand and Kill Gaara wile he is defenseless. 'Just the shear power alone would be enough to brake through Gaara sand shield so I do not see what we are debating.

I used Fantastic Spider man, because it is the closest cartoon to the canon comic.

Anyhow Naruto cartoon is not canon as well, if I was to say cartoon vs cartoon than we use there cartoon powers and not there manga powers.


Ok we are getting way off topic. this was talking about how Vs threads are good for working on ones debating skills not a vs thread it self.


By having a VS debate we are demonstrating how VS threads can improve someone's debating skills, and how it doesn't simply have to be 2 fanboys yelling at each other.

The only parts of the anime that aren't canon are the fillers, and as far as I know all of the Gaara fights in the original Naruto series appear in the manga, so they are still canon. Being close to the canon is not the same as the actual canon, so anything outside of Stan Lee's comics doesn't have a place in this discussion, just as nothing outside of Masashi Kishimoto's manga can't be applied here. And, again, in the original comics Sandman never became 70 feet tall, as far as I know he never became bigger than 8-10 feet. And it's still nearly impossible to compare their abilities to control sand considering that they do it in very different ways. So I would say that it could go either way, but I personally would prefer it if Sandman won.
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Posted 8/15/09 , edited 8/15/09

Cuddlebuns wrote:


Darkphoenix3450
I have seen Gaara use the demon it made it more easy for Naruto to hit Gaara. He loses his defense shield wen he lets out the demon.
'85 tons of force in the shape of a lance from a 70 foot tall sandman should be able to kill Gaara. 'If Sandman does not turn into a 70 foot tall man, he can still move through the demon that is composed of sand and Kill Gaara wile he is defenseless. 'Just the shear power alone would be enough to brake through Gaara sand shield so I do not see what we are debating.

I used Fantastic Spider man, because it is the closest cartoon to the canon comic.

Anyhow Naruto cartoon is not canon as well, if I was to say cartoon vs cartoon than we use there cartoon powers and not there manga powers.


Ok we are getting way off topic. this was talking about how Vs threads are good for working on ones debating skills not a vs thread it self.


By having a VS debate we are demonstrating how VS threads can improve someone's debating skills, and how it doesn't simply have to be 2 fanboys yelling at each other.

The only parts of the anime that aren't canon are the fillers, and as far as I know all of the Gaara fights in the original Naruto series appear in the manga, so they are still canon. Being close to the canon is not the same as the actual canon, so anything outside of Stan Lee's comics doesn't have a place in this discussion, just as nothing outside of Masashi Kishimoto's manga can't be applied here. And, again, in the original comics Sandman never became 70 feet tall, as far as I know he never became bigger than 8-10 feet. And it's still nearly impossible to compare their abilities to control sand considering that they do it in very different ways. So I would say that it could go either way, but I personally would prefer it if Sandman won.

Still using canon facts we can still point out that Sandman does seem to have the power advantage over Gaara, what bone guys name is was able to resist Gaara desert coffin attack. Now Sandman has around 80 to 85 tons of power he can throw into it, and he has been known to put holes in steal with his hands. We can agree with that right. We can also agree that Sandman can not be hurt by fiscal attacks. His greatest weakness is fire right. Even wen Sandman was torn apart and spread all over NY he was still able to form back up, even using people turning them into his mindless slaves to help gather all his pieces together. We can also agree that Sandman can travel at great speeds both in the air and underground by using his sand like powers. Those are all canon facts right.

In the end Gaara can be hurt by the Sandman, but does Gaara have anything that can hurt the Sandman?
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Posted 8/15/09

Darkphoenix3450
Still using canon facts we can still point out that Sandman does seem to have the power advantage over Gaara, what bone guys name is was able to resist Gaara desert coffin attack. Now Sandman has around 80 to 85 tons of power he can throw into it, and he has been known to put holes in steal with his hands. We can agree with that right. We can also agree that Sandman can not be hurt by fiscal attacks. His greatest weakness is fire right. Even wen Sandman was torn apart and spread all over NY he was still able to form back up, even using people turning them into his mindless slaves to help gather all his pieces together. We can also agree that Sandman can travel at great speeds both in the air and underground by using his sand like powers. Those are all canon facts right.

In the end Gaara can be hurt by the Sandman, but does Gaara have anything that can hurt the Sandman?


The original Sandman can be hurt by physical objects if he is caught off-guard, I don't know if Gaara is fast enough to surprise him but I'm guessing that he must be pretty fast since he's a ninja, although he would have to be as fast as or faster than Spider-man, and there's no real way to determine that. The original Sandman was weak against water, his fire weakness and immunity to water is relatively new.

The deciding factor is who has better control over sand. Even if they are completely equal in that regard, Sandman is actually made of sand, and there's no reason why Gaara shouldn't be able to hold him in place or tear him apart.
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Posted 8/15/09

Cuddlebuns wrote:


Darkphoenix3450
Still using canon facts we can still point out that Sandman does seem to have the power advantage over Gaara, what bone guys name is was able to resist Gaara desert coffin attack. Now Sandman has around 80 to 85 tons of power he can throw into it, and he has been known to put holes in steal with his hands. We can agree with that right. We can also agree that Sandman can not be hurt by fiscal attacks. His greatest weakness is fire right. Even wen Sandman was torn apart and spread all over NY he was still able to form back up, even using people turning them into his mindless slaves to help gather all his pieces together. We can also agree that Sandman can travel at great speeds both in the air and underground by using his sand like powers. Those are all canon facts right.

In the end Gaara can be hurt by the Sandman, but does Gaara have anything that can hurt the Sandman?


The original Sandman can be hurt by physical objects if he is caught off-guard, I don't know if Gaara is fast enough to surprise him but I'm guessing that he must be pretty fast since he's a ninja, although he would have to be as fast as or faster than Spider-man, and there's no real way to determine that. The original Sandman was weak against water, his fire weakness and immunity to water is relatively new.

The deciding factor is who has better control over sand. Even if they are completely equal in that regard, Sandman is actually made of sand, and there's no reason why Gaara shouldn't be able to hold him in place or tear him apart.


Later on in the same comics he was able to get over his water weakness at least that is what keeps popping back up in my head.
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Posted 8/15/09

Darkphoenix3450

Later on in the same comics he was able to get over his water weakness at least that is what keeps popping back up in my head.


I've never read the comics, but my older brother who has read all of the original Spider-man comics was shocked during the 3rd Spider-man movie when Sandman recovered from being splashed with tons of water, because in the comics that was the only way to defeat him. Maybe he got over it in later adaptations of the comic, but those are non-canon.

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Posted 8/15/09

Cuddlebuns wrote:


Darkphoenix3450

Later on in the same comics he was able to get over his water weakness at least that is what keeps popping back up in my head.


I've never read the comics, but my older brother who has read all of the original Spider-man comics was shocked during the 3rd Spider-man movie when Sandman recovered from being splashed with tons of water, because in the comics that was the only way to defeat him. Maybe he got over it in later adaptations of the comic, but those are non-canon.


no he was mixed with another super human that was made of water, and that messed them both up because two living things got blended together. maby that what he was talking about.



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Posted 8/16/09 , edited 8/16/09

Darkphoenix3450 wrote:


Baka-God wrote:

You know, even if you would use your intelligence and facts to argue with narutards and thousand of those drooling and squealing fangirls, it won't suffice to write a long post about charaka ( Don't know if this is good spelled), Stamina , Strength and Speed or what you have mentioned up there. The people will all ignore it. and say things as '' GAARAA WILL OWN HIS ASS'', '' WHO IS THAT FUCKTARD? NEVER HEARD OF THE SANDMAN, GAARA IS WAY BETTER AS HIM'', '' SANDMAN WILL NEVER WIN''. It's always like that. Even if you have solid and strong points, the evil side of fangirls and narutards? That's way worse as you think. Never try to argue with them or compare Naruto characters to other characters which are all in an imaginary world of our own.

"there part of the Popularity crap and should not be in a debate Thread Like the ED, or if the vs thread got there own thread, and so I think we get less of them than you think.

At least I hope we can.


Yes I do know how bad it can get... I was there on Gaia back wen vs threads was aloud in the anime section, and we had Naruto fan wanked spamming to hell the thread.
That is where I came up with the name Narutard! Yes I am the creator of that word 'Believe it!' or not!

But then can you blame me for giving those types a name after they spam my threads?


Narutards u should have known better than to argue with them u cant win ive tryed it its not worth the sun has baked there brains to the size of a french frie. Do u really want to have a conversation with a french?
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