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[DA] Thread on Abortion
Posted 10/5/10
I think that abortion should be allowed.
Way I see it, it's the baby's fault it's getting aborted.
If it chose a better mother, then it wouldn't be aborted.
We must punish stupidity.
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Posted 10/6/10 , edited 10/7/10

SeraphAlford wrote:

Imagine that one day you were kidnapped while you slept. By the time you wake up you realize that you’ve been attached to a complete stranger via a series of life supporting tubes. Two options are now available.

You can pull the tubes right away and go on about your life without being forced to use your body to preserve a virtual parasite. However, doing this will result in the stranger’s death. On the other hand you can leave the tubes in place for nine months and THEN remove them. In doing this you’ll allow the stranger a chance to live, but if you do this the process will be painful and expensive.

Now, it would be nice of you to choose the second option. But you have no moral or constitutional obligation to do so. You have a right to go on with your life unfettered, you have a right to choose the first option, you have a right to attain an abortion.


Amazing logical fallacy you got right there.

Your provided theoretical situation is basically how a baby is born with all the fancy smancy "tubes and parasite" bit, except instead of describing a fetus as a clump of cell, the clump of cell is preemptively changed to a fully grown living man ignoring the 9 months of gestation period and the 18 years of child-raising necessary to change a clump of cell into a full grown adult. At least you did one thing right; skip teenage angst phase.

Judith Jarvis Thompson is a dumb WASP that needs to get laid by a hung black man.
Playing Devil's Advocate only works when you decide not to use the retarded devil.
Posted 6/14/11
I don't like the whole idea of abortion itself and I think it's inhuman. But I will say this- I don't think abortion should be illegal, because people should have freedom to do what they want. We should control our own lives, and have a choice on whether to put their baby up for adoption, kill it, or keep it.
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Posted 6/16/11
Abortion should be legal.
Simply because people have the right to choose over their own lives.
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Posted 6/16/11
Abortion of flawed fetuses should be incentivized. Hopefully, one day in the future, we can use genetic engineering and in-vitro fertilization to increase the strength, intelligence, and aesthetics of our children, so that the human race advances more quickly than nature would otherwise allow for.
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Posted 6/18/11
I think abortion should only be allowed if there is a danger on the mother's life if she continued without abortion.
In cases of flawed fetuses I agree with st1rn3r, also not for any flaw abortion should be allowed, just for extreme cases.

I don't see any other situation where I would agree with abortion, although there might be some that I missed
Posted 6/18/11

st1rn3r wrote:

Abortion of flawed fetuses should be incentivized. Hopefully, one day in the future, we can use genetic engineering and in-vitro fertilization to increase the strength, intelligence, and aesthetics of our children, so that the human race advances more quickly than nature would otherwise allow for.
Since the immoral discrimination known as eugenic ideology didn't worked for Nazi, why do you think it's any different in today's bioethics? When most of the the world's brilliant individuals are hardly functional, if not socially flawed.


shiroioni wrote:

I think abortion should only be allowed if there is a danger on the mother's life if she continued without abortion.
In cases of flawed fetuses I agree with st1rn3r, also not for any flaw abortion should be allowed, just for extreme cases.

I don't see any other situation where I would agree with abortion, although there might be some that I missed
You might want to look into unwanted births.
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Posted 6/18/11

DomFortress wrote:
You might want to look into unwanted births.


I can see the point there, but what would be the time limits on abortion? to me, Abortion of a 4 months fetus is about the same as killing a newborn baby, which I'm sure no one would be okay with.
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Posted 6/18/11

shiroioni wrote:

I think abortion should only be allowed if there is a danger on the mother's life if she continued without abortion.
In cases of flawed fetuses I agree with st1rn3r, also not for any flaw abortion should be allowed, just for extreme cases.

I don't see any other situation where I would agree with abortion, although there might be some that I missed


What about if the child was conceived as a result of rape? I'm not exactly pro abortion, but I think it is wrong for a woman to have to carry the child of someone who has raped her.
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Posted 6/18/11

maffoo wrote:


shiroioni wrote:

I think abortion should only be allowed if there is a danger on the mother's life if she continued without abortion.
In cases of flawed fetuses I agree with st1rn3r, also not for any flaw abortion should be allowed, just for extreme cases.

I don't see any other situation where I would agree with abortion, although there might be some that I missed


What about if the child was conceived as a result of rape? I'm not exactly pro abortion, but I think it is wrong for a woman to have to carry the child of someone who has raped her.



Even though she have to go through the pregnancy and delivery, after that the kid can go to an orphanage.


I'm against abortion when the fetus looks something like human, but I'm not sure / don't have any opinion on the very first days/weeks.
maffoo 
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Posted 6/18/11

shiroioni wrote:


maffoo wrote:


shiroioni wrote:

I think abortion should only be allowed if there is a danger on the mother's life if she continued without abortion.
In cases of flawed fetuses I agree with st1rn3r, also not for any flaw abortion should be allowed, just for extreme cases.

I don't see any other situation where I would agree with abortion, although there might be some that I missed


What about if the child was conceived as a result of rape? I'm not exactly pro abortion, but I think it is wrong for a woman to have to carry the child of someone who has raped her.



Even though she have to go through the pregnancy and delivery, after that the kid can go to an orphanage.


But that is 9 months of having a reminder of her attacker inside her. Plus pregnancy puts a massive strain on a woman's body, and even with all our medical expertise it carries risks. Why should she go through that for something that she bears no responsibility for?

I'm not saying that it is necessarily right to abort the baby, I still think it is wrong in a sense as it is an innocent life. However, my view is that it is equally wrong for a woman to have to carry that child if she doesn't want to.
Posted 6/18/11

shiroioni wrote:


DomFortress wrote:
You might want to look into unwanted births.


I can see the point there, but what would be the time limits on abortion? to me, Abortion of a 4 months fetus is about the same as killing a newborn baby, which I'm sure no one would be okay with.

shiroioni wrote:




Even though she have to go through the pregnancy and delivery, after that the kid can go to an orphanage.


I'm against abortion when the fetus looks something like human
, but I'm not sure / don't have any opinion on the very first days/weeks.
Really now, even when the reality of inhumane psychopaths can still look human on the outside, while collectively the human specie can still become evil through the socialization process called Lucifer effect. Isn't your definition of what constitutes a human being rather oversimplified, to the point of being superficial and shallow?

Also, I would think twice about irresponsibly raising unwanted children in any social institution. Especially considering its track record on the lack of intimate relationships.

In conclusion, I'll support abortion for as long as your unrealistic expectation about child-care is the social norms.
Posted 6/18/11 , edited 6/18/11
If you have made enough of a mistake as to deny another life from living because you had an itch in your crotch, then it is seems your life is the one that should be brought to an end. As it is you can possibly make money to support an unwanted child. So in that case your continued living is justified to an extent. Beyond that, the stupidity that forever marks you defines who you are.

People will tell you that sex is okay if the people involved love each other. An expression of love is nothing to be ashamed of. If all they do is utilize the pleasure of that expression and continually frustrate their biological function, what does it amount to?

It would be best that a person remains celibate if sex is just a plaything to them. Forever tortured in their inability to have a mate. As they well and truly deserve.
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Posted 12/7/11
I'm normally pro-choice about this sort of thing, but with abortion it doesn't really seem like you're giving the fetus a choice, i mean it's a potential life that you're taking. I admit that if the mothers life is at risk or the child will be born so deformed that it won't live for a significant amount of time abortion should be carried out. But people that have abortions just because they're not ready to have a child, or can't afford it shouldn't have got pregnant in the first place, and I'm sure they can give it up for adoption afterwards. I'm sure you'd rather be born and have a less comfortable life than never having been born at all.
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Posted 12/31/11 , edited 12/31/11

RandomHoboAttack wrote:

I'm normally pro-choice about this sort of thing, but with abortion it doesn't really seem like you're giving the fetus a choice, i mean it's a potential life that you're taking. I admit that if the mothers life is at risk or the child will be born so deformed that it won't live for a significant amount of time abortion should be carried out. But people that have abortions just because they're not ready to have a child, or can't afford it shouldn't have got pregnant in the first place, and I'm sure they can give it up for adoption afterwards. I'm sure you'd rather be born and have a less comfortable life than never having been born at all.


A foetus is a potential life. It has the potential to be a person. Potential to be something doesn't make it so. Rights are given to people. A foetus is not a person. It is a non-sentient, non-feeling clump of cells. The person who is pregnant on the other hand is fully sentient and fully capable of feeling pain and emotions. To value a parasitic lump of cells over a person is ethically void.

As for the whole "don't want kids don't get pregnant" argument... Contraception isn't 100% which means that even the most responsible people can still fall pregnant. As for the adoption argument, you're still forcing a pregnancy on someone. You wouldn't force someone to donate an organ or blood so why should a uterus-bearer be forced to lend their body? Sex in humans isn't just for reproducing. It also serves as a bonding activity. Just because you decide you're ready for sex doesn't mean you're also automatically ready to raise a child. Forcing a child or pregnancy on someone for having sex? That does not show compassion for the potential child, it shows a sadistic, arrogant desire to punish the person for having sex. Children should be wanted, not used as some method of punishment. To be brought up by mentally, financially unprepared parents who never wanted them in the first place does absolutely no favours for the child.

Not to mention the thousands of kids that are already waiting to be adopted. There just aren't that many families out there willing to adopt them. Thousands of people age out of the system without ever having a stable home environment, without ever making familial bonds. These people are statistically more likely to have depressive mental disorders, engage in criminal activity, be unemployed or have poor jobs. Why add to that number?

I do not know of anyone who was asked prior to being born, whether or not they wanted to be born. That argument is moot. Foetuses are non-sentient. If I was never born, I would never have been born. I would never have existed and therefore wouldn't have an opinion regarding whether or not I would want to be born or anything for that matter.
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