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Real Life Battle-Mechs just got more Possible
Posted 8/15/09 , edited 8/15/09
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHJJQ0zNNOM

Big Dog is mech, and they plan to attatch guns to it. Possibly even attatch laser cannons in the near future because the USA is heavily researching in laser technology.

Yea... The biggest talking point against the feassibility of mechs is that technology is nowhere near the point where we could sustain balance. All the robots we ever see in real life are all clunky, linear, or just not big. If you push them, they fall over.. How does a mech get up if you post it over?

Well, that problem has been solved. Though I half to say, if we are headed into a era of mech development in the future. Mechs will probably be quad jointed rather than 2 legged goliaths. Think beastwars or those wolf mobile suits in gundam seed.
Posted 8/15/09
Its scary !!
as all things that designed to kill people..
Posted 8/15/09
Well if it's anything like the anime Gundam, we're all doomed.
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Posted 8/15/09
Over ten minutes and no "I, for one," joke already?

I don't even know you anymore, Internet.
Posted 8/15/09 , edited 8/15/09

life-oxygen wrote:

Its scary !!
as all things that designed to kill people..


I think if all nations start developing this technology, overall the wars that are faught will become less human depended in the first place. In other words, the more the bots, the less real blood to be spilt. If both sides to 1 conflict use mostly robotics to run into battle, wars will become a batlle of taxdollars and technology, and less of human lives.

Basically the nation who runs out of money will just cave and sign a treaty, make a deal with the country for whatever reason, law, or resource the opposing faction warred over. Or the gvt of the losing faction will just half to step down from political standing and let the other faction step up and declare annexation.

Sadly, that would be a long way off. Battles for now will be very bloody, and grim for all the soldiers who put themselves at the gundpoint of one of these beasts.
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Posted 8/15/09
i like back in the old day war where you get a sword and a shield and hack each other off
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Posted 8/15/09

varnlestoff wrote:


life-oxygen wrote:

Its scary !!
as all things that designed to kill people..


I think if all nations start developing this technology, overall the wars that are faught will become less human depended in the first place. In other words, the more the bots, the less real blood to be spilt. If both sides to 1 conflict use mostly robotics to run into battle, wars will become a batlle of taxdollars and technology, and less of human lives.

Sadly, that would be a long way off. Battles for now will be very bloody, and grim for all the soldiers who put themselves at the gundpoint of one of these beasts.


Read Philip K. Dick's "Second Variety" short story and see how wrong you are.
Posted 8/15/09 , edited 8/15/09

EBKemanon wrote:


varnlestoff wrote:


life-oxygen wrote:

Its scary !!
as all things that designed to kill people..


I think if all nations start developing this technology, overall the wars that are faught will become less human depended in the first place. In other words, the more the bots, the less real blood to be spilt. If both sides to 1 conflict use mostly robotics to run into battle, wars will become a batlle of taxdollars and technology, and less of human lives.

Sadly, that would be a long way off. Battles for now will be very bloody, and grim for all the soldiers who put themselves at the gundpoint of one of these beasts.


Read Philip K. Dick's "Second Variety" short story and see how wrong you are.


Because manpower is needed to keep maintainence and be there. Yes there will always be to some extent people who are needed. Also, for whichever nation does not accept defeat. The battle would be brought to the nations cities and civilians. Also, ranking officers and people for influence tides of war will always be flesh and blood. And the men will always be targets, hence human bloodshed will always exist.

Philip K was a neat auther, BUT SCI-FI. Realisticly, what I am talking about would just ease itself in over MANY years. Major change in the way battles are fought does not take place fast. I am only wrong if you have fighting points to prove me wrong. Other than that, it's up to history. After all, I never said wars would be completely robotic dependet. But "mostly". Which it is an undeniable fact that we are becoming "MORE" robotic dependent already.

FYI, people believed the world was flat. People would have also laughed at you if you said their was such a thing as a wireless phone, or "Cellphone" 60 years back. Skeptics will always be skeptics, but it all laughable theories or skepticism until the history proves it all wrong. For now, we can only go off trends we currently see. Whics leads many to belive that seeing as we are already becoming more and more "robiticly" dependent, who's to say it won't adjust into the primary means.
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Posted 8/15/09 , edited 8/15/09




FYI, people believed the world was flat. People would have also laughed at you if you said their was such a thing as a wireless phone, or "Cellphone" 60 years back


All other points aside, I have to call this out.

No. Most people thought the world was round since at least the third century BCE, and before then most likely as well, no matter what people are told about Columbus. For that second bit, even before 1949, people thought we'd have self driving flying cars by now and you would just wash dirty dishes down the drain.


And well, yes, everything is but to the roll of history's dice, but you can't just hide under that and declare your opinion indisputable simply because the future is yet to be determined.
Posted 8/15/09 , edited 8/15/09

EBKemanon wrote:





FYI, people believed the world was flat. People would have also laughed at you if you said their was such a thing as a wireless phone, or "Cellphone" 60 years back


All other points aside, I have to call this out.

No. Most people thought the world was round since at least the third century BCE, and before then most likely as well, no matter what people are told about Columbus. For that second bit, even before 1949, people thought we'd have self driving flying cars by now and you would just wash dirty dishes down the drain.


And well, yes, everything is but to the roll of history's dice, but you can't just hide under that and declare your opinion indisputable simply because the future is yet to be determined.


I don't set things in stone. I firmly agree with the rolling dice centiment. But I also notice that once things go past a certain breaking point, it is very difficult to disrupt it from that course. Once we started making the first giant industrial computers. It was almsot guarenteed research would continue until we where at the point we are so spoiled with today.

Basically, I'm making a hailstorm forecast. Dunno for sure if it will happen, but it looks very possible as we've already started using it as a means to an end in real life, even if at a very little extent. I know for sure quite a few militants will be VERY relieved when that Big Dog is able to walk into a home suspected of having terrorits, or a cave that may have traps, and taking all the punishment for them. Besides the big dog, we've already been using things like RC's, tredded transports, and unmanned aircraft, and a few other robotics for military purposes.

Also, their is a HUGE difference between the flying cars preditiction back in 49, and the prediction of robotics today. Because as it stands, it is already being put in use to an extent. Wheres flying cars was just a wild imagination, we already have physical robots walking around in combat right now!

It is in fact stated that bigdog will be used for recon, and will be mounted weapons.
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Posted 8/15/09

varnlestoff wrote:


EBKemanon wrote:





FYI, people believed the world was flat. People would have also laughed at you if you said their was such a thing as a wireless phone, or "Cellphone" 60 years back


All other points aside, I have to call this out.

No. Most people thought the world was round since at least the third century BCE, and before then most likely as well, no matter what people are told about Columbus. For that second bit, even before 1949, people thought we'd have self driving flying cars by now and you would just wash dirty dishes down the drain.


And well, yes, everything is but to the roll of history's dice, but you can't just hide under that and declare your opinion indisputable simply because the future is yet to be determined.


I don't set things in stone. I firmly agree with the rolling dice centiment. But I also notice that once things go past a certain breaking point, it is very difficult to disrupt it from that course. Once we started making the first giant industrial computers. It was almsot guarenteed research would continue until we where at the point we are so spoiled with today.

Basically, I'm making a hailstorm forecast. Dunno for sure if it will happen, but it looks very possible as we've already started using it as a means to an end in real life, even if at a very little extent. I know for suer quite a few militants will be VERY relieved when that Big Dog is able to walk into a home suspected of having terrorits, or a cave that may have traps, and taking all the punishment for them.

It is in fact stated that bigdog will be used for recon, and will be mounted weapons.


Well it's that very same analogy that makes the Second Variety scenario so very plausible. We're both just speculating, but no matter where this path ends we can agree there's no hope of it not going down said path. Vonnegut was right in that wars are like icebergs. I just don't see the introduction of this sort of technology making war more humane in the long run.
Posted 8/15/09 , edited 8/15/09

EBKemanon wrote:


varnlestoff wrote:


EBKemanon wrote:





FYI, people believed the world was flat. People would have also laughed at you if you said their was such a thing as a wireless phone, or "Cellphone" 60 years back


All other points aside, I have to call this out.

No. Most people thought the world was round since at least the third century BCE, and before then most likely as well, no matter what people are told about Columbus. For that second bit, even before 1949, people thought we'd have self driving flying cars by now and you would just wash dirty dishes down the drain.


And well, yes, everything is but to the roll of history's dice, but you can't just hide under that and declare your opinion indisputable simply because the future is yet to be determined.


I don't set things in stone. I firmly agree with the rolling dice centiment. But I also notice that once things go past a certain breaking point, it is very difficult to disrupt it from that course. Once we started making the first giant industrial computers. It was almsot guarenteed research would continue until we where at the point we are so spoiled with today.

Basically, I'm making a hailstorm forecast. Dunno for sure if it will happen, but it looks very possible as we've already started using it as a means to an end in real life, even if at a very little extent. I know for suer quite a few militants will be VERY relieved when that Big Dog is able to walk into a home suspected of having terrorits, or a cave that may have traps, and taking all the punishment for them.

It is in fact stated that bigdog will be used for recon, and will be mounted weapons.


Well it's that very same analogy that makes the Second Variety scenario so very plausible. We're both just speculating, but no matter where this path ends we can agree there's no hope of it not going down said path. Vonnegut was right in that wars are like icebergs. I just don't see the introduction of this sort of technology making war more humane in the long run.


Well yeah, it won't be more humane. But I won't be complaining if the day ever came where 2 opposing factions bitched at eachother because the "Enemy" robot blew up "Their" robot. Like I said, it would only be a "positive thing" one it became big enough for the ammount of "human" casualties to decrease vastly. For the first part like right now, this is in fact very very inhuman. Being killed by a robot at the hand of someone controlling a joystick is a terrible thought.

But thinking about a robot destroying another robot is 1 less casualty in the long run, if we ever got to that point.
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Posted 8/15/09
That seems like an idealistic view. Realistically, this will result in higher human casualties by making killing easier. Drone planes may reduce pilot casualties, but they sure make engendering even more casualties easier. I see this as an extension of that principle.
Posted 8/15/09 , edited 8/15/09

EBKemanon wrote:

That seems like an idealistic view. Realistically, this will result in higher human casualties by making killing easier. Drone planes may reduce pilot casualties, but they sure make engendering even more casualties easier. I see this as an extension of that principle.


That really depends. Where the robot is, someone else would be doing instead. So in the end, the overall ammount of possible casualties from every single encounter is reduced. Picture this.

Scenario A: a squad of troops raid a weapons store, all hell breaks loose and a grenade goes off and everybody dies. All of the terrorists, and all of the troops. All of the families get the grim news that their children died.

Scenario B: a robot goes in, it kills most of the terrorists, the robot becomes completely useless. A bunch people who would have died have not.

This isn't idealism at all. Either way you look at killing, it is not a good thing. But would you rather have a higher ammount of casualties per conflict? There is a deffinate moral border being scraped at here. Alot of people will complain that it is bad that robots are doing the killing, AND IT IS. But honestly, how can they talk when either way, people are going to die. I think we threw most morals out of the border the moment the war started. It's really hard to top that.

Just in the way illegal immigrents don't make more jobs. But instead the take jobs away from natives. Their won't be more burger flipping in war, it will just be done differently.
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Posted 8/15/09
But my qualm is that the robots will ultimately lead to a higher degree of killing by making it more efficient. Soon enough in that future all sides shall have their robots.
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