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Americans ARE Stupid,
Posted 8/17/09 , edited 8/17/09

SeraphAlford wrote:

Well, your country is poor anyway. I was being a bit dramatic.

In this case the tests were partially designed to rate our problem solving capabilities, which does in fact coincide with intellect. In reading comprehension, for example, all the information is on the paper and you simply have to apply it. In science tests the formulas are all given you simply have to find out where to use them and then follow through with the calculations. Short of being illiterate ignorance shouldn’t prevent us from scoring well on these tests if we’re intelligent.

Although maybe you’re right. Ignorance and stupidity aren’t the same thing. Do you know of any place where we can compare average IQs from nation to nation by age group?



Poor? No, not really. We're recovering quite fast from communism, and the 2nd World war and that in spite of the fact that nobody really ever paid anything to us to recover. No, people rather invest in Berlin... Anyway, Prague was once called (before the second WW) the Golden city for a reason, and Czechoslovakia was better off than most other European countries. Economically, culture, educational-wise. In fact, throughout history we never reached real poverty. And nowadays, our streets are cleaner than Italy's, and France's, etc. You see..
You know..Czech Republic isn't the dirty little commie country as most US Americans might remember it for, if they ever set foot in that country at all and aren't just repeating the stupid anti-commie propaganda.
People here aren't suffering from hunger, or not having a f*cking roof over their head. I'd even go so far as to claim that most are better off than most US Americans. Life here is rather cheap, therefore we don't need that much money to finance our life, but it's slowly getting more pricey because of our membership in the EU ( which was the most dumbest idea we could have had; joining EU).
I read the reference and that's what it originally said in the article: "They do worse than kids from poorer countries that spend much less money on education, ranking behind not only Belgium but also Poland, the Czech Republic and South Korea."
It just says...poorer, there's no word about poverty. And honestly, being poorer than the USA doesn't make us poor, just poorer.

Yeah, I know these tests. They might be similar to aptitude tests..if that's the correct term for it. We've had them, and I can say that I know quite a few intelligent individuals who've scored pretty low in those tests. These tests can be a pain if your school system focuses on "other" things. Or also, if you're brain doesn't work after these test's logic. I could word it like that "It wasn't every student's cup of tea". I would say that it might have failed quite a lot of intelligent folks who're just unlucky to have a different logic than the majority's.
Really, those tests are more about knowledge than one would think. If you're not a maths type, then you'll most probably suck at the mathematical logic part, etc.
I think...even Albert Einstein would have failed them. *cough*
And maybe it's also a culture thing....

Anyway, I googled for the latter, and that's what my search brought up:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IQ_and_the_Wealth_of_Nations - sadly it doesn't group it into age categories.
Hmm Asian nations seem to be well off.
http://www.rlynn.co.uk/pages/article_intelligence/t4.asp

I might add, that personally, I consider IQ tests as rather unreliable. But well...that's probably just me.
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Posted 8/17/09

ShroomInferno wrote:

Poor? No, not really. We're recovering quite fast from communism, and the 2nd World war and that in spite of the fact that nobody really ever paid anything to us to recover. No, people rather invest in Berlin... Anyway, Prague was once called (before the second WW) the Golden city for a reason, and Czechoslovakia was better off than most other European countries. Economically, culture, educational-wise. In fact, throughout history we never reached real poverty. And nowadays, our streets are cleaner than Italy's, and France's, etc. You see..


The United States of America has a GDP of 14,264,600 million dollars. The United Kingdom has a GDP of 2,674,000 million. Mexico 1,088,000 million. South Korea 947,000 million. South Africa, 277, 188 million. Columbia 240,654. The Czech Republic 217,077. That's a pretty poor country.


Anyway, I googled for the latter, and that's what my search brought up:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IQ_and_the_Wealth_of_Nations - sadly it doesn't group it into age categories.
Hmm Asian nations seem to be well off.
http://www.rlynn.co.uk/pages/article_intelligence/t4.asp

I might add, that personally, I consider IQ tests as rather unreliable. But well...that's probably just me.


Thanks.
Posted 8/17/09

SeraphAlford wrote:

The United States of America has a GDP of 14,264,600 million dollars. The United Kingdom has a GDP of 2,674,000 million. Mexico 1,088,000 million. South Korea 947,000 million. South Africa, 277, 188 million. Columbia 240,654. The Czech Republic 217,077. That's a pretty poor country.



Meh, we might have a different understanding of poverty then?
http://www.radio.cz/en/article/67620
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Posted 8/17/09 , edited 8/17/09

ShroomInferno wrote:


SeraphAlford wrote:

The United States of America has a GDP of 14,264,600 million dollars. The United Kingdom has a GDP of 2,674,000 million. Mexico 1,088,000 million. South Korea 947,000 million. South Africa, 277, 188 million. Columbia 240,654. The Czech Republic 217,077. That's a pretty poor country.



Meh, we might have a different understanding of poverty then?
http://www.radio.cz/en/article/67620


Like I said , I was just using the term ‘poverty,’ for dramatic effect. Also, we’re talking about two separate sectors. That article you linked was relating to the Czech public, not the Czech government. I meant your government is poor, not necessarily your people. Can you PM why you dislike joining the EU? Also, how do people over there generally feel about us over here? What does the media portray us and the war as?
Posted 8/17/09

SeraphAlford wrote:

Like I said , I was just using the term ‘poverty,’ for dramatic effect. Also, we’re talking about two separate sectors. That article you linked was relating to the Czech public, not the Czech government. I meant your government is poor, not necessarily your people. Can you PM why you dislike joining the EU? Also, how do people over there generally feel about us over here? What does the media portray us and the war as?


Haha, well you said.."country". This led to confusion on my part. Anyway, I surely could PM you about it once I feel like it. (currently not really in the mood to talk about it)
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Posted 8/17/09
no that's not really that stupid i think
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Posted 8/17/09
omg .. is it that bad .. never thought it'll be like that .. i know our public schools r bad .. but not that much .. i'd say what we r studying is bad but how we study it .. it's good ..& who is studying it .. they r the worst .. that's why we r stupid ..
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Posted 8/18/09
Yay, another stupid thread. ^_^

Okay!!! Okay!!!
Hmm, what does a matter that directly relates to HUMAN AMBITION, comes from HUMAN AMBITION, and ends with HUMAN AMBITION have to do with America, a lousy piece of land?

GEEE I DON'T KNOW
maybe...... Ab-so-lutely "f---ing" nothing?

ding.
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Posted 8/19/09

SeraphAlford wrote:

Watching any of the movies concerning schools in America you may get this idea that US schools are the 21st century’s version of ghettoes from WWII. This couldn’t be further from the truth. Actually, about seventy percent of American parents give their child’s school an A or B grade [1].

Yet, there does appear to be a problem. While American children up to ages ten are performing spectacularly as compared to foreign counterparts from across the world, by age fifteen their scores drop significantly below the average for that age group. In 2003 PISA distributed a test to public-school students aged 15+ in forty nations. The Americans ranked 25th. [2]. That means we were outperformed by poverty stricken countries like South Korea (second place,) and the Czech Republic (which came in fifteenth place.)

So, what seems to be the problem? Apparently our children are relatively safe. I don’t think we’d have a seventy percent approval rating if American kids were being robbed, murdered, and addicted to drugs every day. Do we need more funding?

In terms of annual spending per student America ranks first place, tied with Switzerland [3]. Jay P. Greene points out that we’ve doubled per pupil spending over the last thirty years, adjusted for inflation, and yet the performances have remained constant in his “Education Myths.” (Since nobody’s going to bother purchasing a book I won’t bother listing citations. You can find it on Amazon if you want to read it yourself. Besides, I’ll post a separate source that affirms this at the end.)

Recently I watched a documentary on this that was very insightful. I’ve considered, as an aspiring legislature, multiple solutions. My personal experience is that teaching in public schools is too disrupted by social events and a general lack of discipline. I started out in German schools, and it should be noted that Germany was surprised at its low scores in the international tests as well. I then went to American military schools. Military schools are far advanced. I transferred to public schools in Eight Grade. We were learning how to add, subtract, multiply, and divide fractions. This is something I’d been doing since fourth grade. In fact, my personal tests scores dropped from 7th-9th grade, not picking back up until after I dropped out of school in 10th grade. (To be blunt, I feel robbed of my education.)

In military school the teachers were all well paid and highly professional. The students were also well behaved, myself included. See, in military school if you get in trouble they call your parents at work. Anybody who’s received a personal call while on the job knows that bosses don’t take kindly to that. Apparently Drill Sergeants don’t either. You can trust me, whenever you get your dad’s ass busted at work, he’s going to get your ass busted at home. We knew better than to mess around.

At the same time the communities had strict curfews and military police officers instead of civilian law enforcement. In other words, even outside of school and home we were held up to a higher disciplinary standard than children in civilian cities. We were kept in line, very well, because parents who didn’t keep their family matters under control receive martial consequences.

So, that was my solution. Simply extend the disciplinary tactics of military schools to public schools. Children should be made to report directly home after school and wear uniforms. These laws are similar to some recent regulations passed in Japan. (Again, I’d have to cite a text book and nobody’s going to read it. You can ask if you want the name, but this baby will run you about $125 IF you can even find it. Just trust me, why would I lie about that?)

However, the ABC documentary suggested a simpler answer. They brought up the school district system. Now, this is something I could also relate too. You see, in America you don’t get to choose which school you go to. You’re assigned a school based on where you live. We lived in Brittany on the south side of Oklahoma City. In other-words, the virtual red-neck’s ghetto. My mother was not comfortable sending us to the most dangerous school system in the state, so we transferred and commuted. The process of this was grueling and I missed two months of school before I FINNALLY got them to accept me. I was lucky, I was competing with a couple hundred other children, most got denied. The only reason I was accepted is because my families military history and my past in military schools, combined with a respectable academic performance and coaching from my father on how to blow smoke up an adult’s ass, was just enough to convince them to make a rare exception.

It was hard, very hard getting into a good school district. What I never knew was that this system is unique. Most wealthy countries allow families to choose which district they want to attend. Because of this, schools have compete with one another for performance. Parents don’t send their children to bad schools. Schools without children don’t get government funding and close down. In the end, bad schools are closed down while extra funding is funneled to good schools.

I think that we should emulate the success of nations like Belgium and combine that with my previous solution to solve the problem and more. What are your thoughts? The documentary can be viewed here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bx4pN-aiofw&feature=rec-HM-fresh+div

[1] http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G1-79515426.html
[2] http://abcnews.go.com/2020/Stossel/story?id=1500338
[3] http://www.oecd.org/document/34/0,2340,en_2649_201185_35341645_1_1_1_1,00.html








In case you’re curious the Republican political party wants to break the government monopoly on education through a voucher system that will emulate European success by allowing us to select our schools. The Democrats say that this hasn't been tested in America and we shouldn't spend the money to make that transition. (This is to be expected. Republicans support less tax and less governmental social programs. Democrats support higher taxes for more social programs. Education is included in social programs. I'll post a source later, for now it's time to eat.)


i dont really know if americans r stupid or not, but it certainly couldnt be measured by a few tests.As far as schools r concernced, yea American school systems suck. Me and my family where educated in some of the worst schools the USA has to offer-litterally. So i know about the failing education system 1st and 2nd hand, since half of my family r ironicly educators.

But i dont think the problem lies in ameican's intelligence or ignorance. I believe u hit the nail on the head when u refered to disipline.Its a serious lack of disipline on the children's part.and growing up in the worsts schools in the USA may have made me a little biased when concerning schools, but numbers dont lie, and u have provided the figures.

I dont know why or how the children r so dam angry all of the time.They can be smart when they want to be, but they really dont give a dam about education.growing up in schools like mine, i cant blame them for that. but the schools r the way they r because of the lack of disipline the kids show.im not sure if the hip hop culture contributes to this, or perhaps it's the parents or pop culture, i really couldnt tell you, but i believe if the disipline is installed at the home, it will branch out into the schools, and kids will actually do the work instead of being on thier cell phones for 47 mins out of a 55 min class.(ironicly, this boils over into college as well).

"the ruin of a nation begins in the home of it's children"- i forgot who...and that might not be the exact quote , but it sounds awsome none the less. peace over war
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Posted 8/19/09
im having some sort of citizen military training now..... i hate it!
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Posted 8/25/09 , edited 8/25/09

Yellow_Duckeh wrote:

Wow. Those lists really did surprise me. I'm not America, nor do I live in American - British. I always thought American's education system was better than Britain's since it always sounded so complicated heh. I doubt America will be able to adapt to Japan's way of doing things; in a sense, it's going cold turkey. However, I do agree that perhaps in most MEDC countries, our education system needs to be more disciplined and strict. I have just done 10th grade and in all of my science lessons I believe I haven't learnt as much as I could have done because of the strictlessness in class. This shows America isn't the only one that is cause for concern. Nevertheless, I never expected Korea to be in the top 10 heh.

Yay, that's just made me sound like a right geek x)


American's education system really is crap, really as long as the teacher hates you enough or likes you enough you pass(sometimes).one of the only reasons it sounds so good is because of the wording, truely most american kids dont know all 50 states kids in other countries know more about the geogrophy than the people actually living there.its really screwed up,and the number of drop outs doesnt make anything better.the stories you hear,there was a boy who wanted to drop out of school at 16 to become famous playing guitar hero,does that even sound possible
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Posted 8/25/09
Ok....there was a lot to read, but i think it was about American kids grades dropping around age 15.

Well personally I think that Americans have it easy for school. No uniform for one thing. AND they can drive at 16 >.>
In present times, we have these mordern day conveniences. No one pays much attention in school. The school themselves aren't strict as they are in other countries.

Now I have never been to America. This is just from what I've seen on tv/newspapers/and stuff.
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Posted 8/26/09
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Posted 8/26/09


Just another reason I hate the United Kingdom. Nationalist, hypocritical, egotistical jackasses.
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Posted 8/26/09

cdplayer6 wrote:

Yay, another stupid thread. ^_^

Okay!!! Okay!!!
Hmm, what does a matter that directly relates to HUMAN AMBITION, comes from HUMAN AMBITION, and ends with HUMAN AMBITION have to do with America, a lousy piece of land?

GEEE I DON'T KNOW
maybe...... Ab-so-lutely "f---ing" nothing?

ding.


Maybe try reading the thread next time, smart guy? It wasn't about the land, it was about the education system. Ding.
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