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The “N” Word
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Posted 8/22/09

SeraphAlford

I think that you’re accepting the popular myth that African Americans are not subject to intense discrimination today, and that African Americans are not living in a world very much influenced by slaver and the prejudice against their people.


I'm pretty sure that most of us aren't. As far as I know, that only happens in a few places across the country.



The bloods and the kryps are both the immediate consequences of slavery.


Care to explain? From what I know, they only fight because of conflicting egos and turf wars, a.k.a stupid crap.
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Posted 8/22/09

Cuddlebuns wrote:


The bloods and the kryps are both the immediate consequences of slavery.


Care to explain? From what I know, they only fight because of conflicting egos and turf wars, a.k.a stupid crap.


The Crips and Bloods are the result of the conditions young African Americans in southern California were put in, and that's a direct result of segregation and racism, and ultimately slavery.

Here's a very recent documentary on it called "Crips and Bloods: Made in America":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70oMep0RhiY
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Posted 8/22/09

Cuddlebuns wrote:

I'm pretty sure that most of us aren't. As far as I know, that only happens in a few places across the country.


Well, it’s been a while since I did my paper on this so I don’t have an immediate list of sources, and I’m a little iffy on some specific numbers. However, African Americans constitute about 13% of the United States population and yet 70% of the United States prison population. Even though 90% of serial killers are white, more African Americans receive the capital punishment sentence than any other ethnic group. African Americans put up for capital punishment are execute after a shorter period of time following the sentence than whites. African Americans are more likely to be the victim of police brutality than any other ethnic group.

Several studies demonstrated that from a young age many African American children are being indoctrinated to feel inferior. For example, in one study a pair of dolls was brought into a classroom of kindergarteners. The dolls were identical in every way except skin color--one was black and the other was white. When asked which doll was ugly children of all races pointed towards the black doll. Apparently similar studies with different ethnic group combinations yielded more diverse answers.

There was another study (I think this one was actually cited in that Dr. Phil episode,) where applications were sent to private companies. Some of these applications had traditional African American names while others had tradition white names. The study demonstrated that for all of the companies people from dominantly white neighborhoods with white names were more likely to get called for an interview than people with traditionally African American names in largely black neighborhoods. This was true even if the black name was more qualified.

This is actually something that I find alarming. I think too many African Americans are unaware and too willing to accept prejudice and discrimination against them.

Think about popular culture, think about music. How often do you hear the N-bomb dropped in songs? Now imagine that the performer had been singing using terms like faggot or chink. The outcry would be enormous. But we’re so used to racial slurs against blacks (like sexist slurs against women in our generally misogynist society,) that nobody’s outraged anymore. In fact, the black population is adopting this phrase as a term of endearment.

This is alarming to me. On one hand, yes: we need to move on. On the other hand, turning a blind eye to the prejudice against your own ethnic group is not the path to take in my opinion. I think we should see some heated (but peaceful) resistance.

Yei already answered for the rest of my post, but it's not just that. African American communities are still suffering economically from when Woodrow Wilson fired ever single African American employed by the US government. That’s why we started affirmative action, but the republicans weren’t able to carry it out and the democrats corrupted it. (The new form is not only ineffective, in my opinion it actually contributes to racial animosity towards the blacks.) The African American life expectancy is lower than that of whites, and it wasn't until 2003 that it was no longer a MAJOR factor. There's a lot going on, people just don't pay attention.
Posted 8/22/09 , edited 8/22/09
But this issue isn't just a black issue. People from other ethnicities get discriminated against just as much, no?
Last time I checked people from hispanic and native american descent don't really have it better than the blacks..you know it really makes me wonder why every Dick and Jane focuses on the "black" issue, but completely disregards that there are other ethnicities who are just as much affected by racism as the afro americans. I would say that every body who has obvious non-white physical features gets discriminated against.
I mean it's cool to bring some light into the "racism against blacks" issue, but it would be even cooler if it wasn't discussed in a fashion where it looks like the only ones who are suffering from racism are the afro americans.
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Posted 8/22/09

ShroomInferno wrote:

But this issue isn't just a black issue. People from other ethnicities get discriminated against just as much, no?
Last time I checked people from hispanic and native american descent don't really have it better than the blacks..you know it really makes me wonder why every Dick and Jane focuses on the "black" issue, but completely disregards that there are other ethnicities who are just as much affected by racism as the afro americans. I would say that every body who has obvious non-white physical features gets discriminated against.
I mean it's cool to bring some light into the "racism against blacks" issue, but it would be even cooler if it wasn't discussed in a fashion where it looks like the only ones who are suffering from racism are the afro americans.


Actually, discrimination against African Americans is significantly more present here in the United States than against any other ethnic minority.
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Posted 8/22/09
I noticed that whenever a non-black person said the N words to a black guy, he gets offended. But when the black guy said the N word to another black guy, he doesn't get offended. Why is that?
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Posted 8/22/09 , edited 8/22/09
This is how i work it, if a black person/s call ME the N word, I take it as fair play to use it as well and I do, there have been a few times they seemed surprised, and after explaining myself, they usually understand, except for like one or two cases where they just stopped calling me the N word as well. (note: i myself am not black)
Posted 8/23/09

SeraphAlford wrote:
Actually, discrimination against African Americans is significantly more present here in the United States than against any other ethnic minority.


Oh? What makes you say this?
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Posted 8/23/09

ShroomInferno wrote:

Oh? What makes you say this?


Like I said before, I don’t have my sources immediately with me but I did write a paper about this. African Americans make up only about 13 percent of our population, yet they’re a vast majority in our prison population even though they’re not even the largest ethnic minority. African Americans are more likely than any other ethnicity to face unreasonable police brutality. Police of all colors have been tested and are more likely to shoot an unarmed African American suspect than a suspect of any other ethnicity.

Besides, I think that the African American society often subjects ITSELF to discrimination. Again, when was the last time you heard a singer screaming “beaner,” or ‘chink,” or any of a million other racial slurs other than the n-word? The only two groups that we allow this against are: Women and blacks.

We’re a misogynist society and we’re taught from a very, very early age to be racist even if our parents don’t realize they’re teaching us to be so. We gain this prejudice through quiet intimations from the adults in our life as well as the media. Even black children show signs of subtle, minor prejudices against black people.
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Posted 8/23/09

SeraphAlford wrote:


Cuddlebuns wrote:

I'm pretty sure that most of us aren't. As far as I know, that only happens in a few places across the country.


Well, it’s been a while since I did my paper on this so I don’t have an immediate list of sources, and I’m a little iffy on some specific numbers. However, African Americans constitute about 13% of the United States population and yet 70% of the United States prison population. Even though 90% of serial killers are white, more African Americans receive the capital punishment sentence than any other ethnic group. African Americans put up for capital punishment are execute after a shorter period of time following the sentence than whites. African Americans are more likely to be the victim of police brutality than any other ethnic group.

Several studies demonstrated that from a young age many African American children are being indoctrinated to feel inferior. For example, in one study a pair of dolls was brought into a classroom of kindergarteners. The dolls were identical in every way except skin color--one was black and the other was white. When asked which doll was ugly children of all races pointed towards the black doll. Apparently similar studies with different ethnic group combinations yielded more diverse answers.

There was another study (I think this one was actually cited in that Dr. Phil episode,) where applications were sent to private companies. Some of these applications had traditional African American names while others had tradition white names. The study demonstrated that for all of the companies people from dominantly white neighborhoods with white names were more likely to get called for an interview than people with traditionally African American names in largely black neighborhoods. This was true even if the black name was more qualified.

This is actually something that I find alarming. I think too many African Americans are unaware and too willing to accept prejudice and discrimination against them.

Think about popular culture, think about music. How often do you hear the N-bomb dropped in songs? Now imagine that the performer had been singing using terms like faggot or chink. The outcry would be enormous. But we’re so used to racial slurs against blacks (like sexist slurs against women in our generally misogynist society,) that nobody’s outraged anymore. In fact, the black population is adopting this phrase as a term of endearment.

This is alarming to me. On one hand, yes: we need to move on. On the other hand, turning a blind eye to the prejudice against your own ethnic group is not the path to take in my opinion. I think we should see some heated (but peaceful) resistance.

Yei already answered for the rest of my post, but it's not just that. African American communities are still suffering economically from when Woodrow Wilson fired ever single African American employed by the US government. That’s why we started affirmative action, but the republicans weren’t able to carry it out and the democrats corrupted it. (The new form is not only ineffective, in my opinion it actually contributes to racial animosity towards the blacks.) The African American life expectancy is lower than that of whites, and it wasn't until 2003 that it was no longer a MAJOR factor. There's a lot going on, people just don't pay attention.


Well I knew that there is still a lot of discrimination, but I wouldn't call it intense. "Intense" better describes what it was like 40-50+ years ago.

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Posted 8/23/09

ShroomInferno wrote:
Hmm, I read this already..., but in spite of this I don't think that other minorities are being less subjected to discrimination than Afro Americans. Maybe they're being subjected to it differently, and maybe are more likely to keep it to themselves.
Other than that....there's probably a reason why so many people have such a bad perception of Afro American people in general. I doubt that it's a "racism" matter in terms of pure discrimination against physical appearance, but more like a discrimination against the character. I mean...look at what kind of music videos they use to promote their songs, and what kind of texts - quite decadent if you ask me, and really doesn't show their best sides at all...as you've mentioned..they're probably more likely to subject themselves to discrimination. I would even go so far as to claim that they're putting down their reputation down on their own..or more like...where a minority is dragging the overall level of the whole group down.

Even in Africa, Africans show racism...against other black tribes..., or make racist remarks, like one black tribe is renowned for its laziness, while an other tribe is renowned for being greedy....; stereotypes.
Stereotypes are being built into each society...and most stereotypes aren't all that unfounded if we observe the situations more closely, or quite contrarily complete bullsh*t. It's human nature to categorise people by general knowledge - it makes it easier to adapt to your surrounding. For example, where I live...Czech people have not a very good opinion of gypsies because the majority of them don't want to work, steal, and well..generally do unlawful stuff, and all that jazz. So logically, first thing a Czech thinks when he sees a gypsy is to hold his bag more tighter, etc. I guess, this could be considered racism, but when you've made your fair share of experience with a certain ethnic group then you can't help it.


The majority of African Americans are honest, normal people. They’re no different than anyone else, and as somebody with African American family I’m offended that anyone would suggest otherwise. What you described is simply racist profiling, and while some people would argue that it’s justifiable I would not. It’s like harassing a Muslim or an Arab at the airport, or paying women less than male employees for doing the same job. I don’t defend any of these things, I condemn them all.

Profiling and generalizing are just forms of thinly masked racism. It’s not fair to judge somebody to fit into a negative stereotype just because they have more skin pigments than you, or have a funny manor of dress, or don’t believe the same thing as you. People are just that, they’re people. Each one is an individual and should be treated as such. Profiling degrades humankind to the level of animals and resources.
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Posted 8/23/09
There is no doubt that blacks still receive racism. Although in other places they are favored and others receive reverse (still just as bad) racism. My opinion on the N-word is that no one has the right to censor the speech of it. My personal view would be that it just goes away because to some it harbors much pain and reminds the country of slavery 150 years ago. However realistically I don't see it fading away. It can be a comical word, and I think a double standard of having black only words is wrong. Regardless though, it's best left unsaid.
Posted 8/23/09

SeraphAlford wrote:
The majority of African Americans are honest, normal people. They’re no different than anyone else, and as somebody with African American family I’m offended that anyone would suggest otherwise. What you described is simply racist profiling, and while some people would argue that it’s justifiable I would not. It’s like harassing a Muslim or an Arab at the airport, or paying women less than male employees for doing the same job. I don’t defend any of these things, I condemn them all.

Profiling and generalizing are just forms of thinly masked racism. It’s not fair to judge somebody to fit into a negative stereotype just because they have more skin pigments than you, or have a funny manor of dress, or don’t believe the same thing as you. People are just that, they’re people. Each one is an individual and should be treated as such. Profiling degrades humankind to the level of animals and resources.

I agree with you. I never understood why some of my acquaintances act so prejudiced towards gypsies. I have a friend who literally changes the side walk out of fear whenever she sees a gypsy coming along. I told her that with this behaviour she shouldn't be surprised if ever a gypsy is going to confront her with this. I don't really understand this reaction especially since I know that she never had any issues with gypsies, so she isn't even suffering from a personal "trauma" so to say.

But like I said...people just simply can't help it. It seems that it's hard for them to make such distinctions.
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Posted 8/23/09

Cuddlebuns wrote:

Well I knew that there is still a lot of discrimination, but I wouldn't call it intense. "Intense" better describes what it was like 40-50+ years ago.



Don’t get me wrong, I understand that there has been progress. But just because people in the past have had it even worse than people in the presence doesn’t mean we should devalue the current suffering. Quite the contrary, we should look back and be outraged that this has gone on for as long as it has.

Rodney King: On March 3, 1991 Rodney King was pulled over for drunk driving. Upon exiting his car he was repeatedly tased. Once on the ground and unable to defend himself he was brutally beaten for over a minute straight. If I came over there and began clubbing a harmless Czech like a baby seal with half a dozen or so of my buddies wouldn’t you call that intense discrimination? This is perhaps the most famous example of modern US police brutality, but only because it happened to be caught on tape.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROn_9302UHg&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Ecracked%2Ecom%2Ffunny%2D1743%2Drodney%2Dking%2F&feature=player_embedded

Something you might want to notice while you watch this: between stomping on his face and beating his skull in with their clubs the officers actually became so exhausted that they have to stop and take a break, letting their buddies take shifts while they catch their breath. Now, I don’t know what kind of equipment police over in your nation use. I do know that my step-father used to be a police officer. You’d be amazed at how heavy and hard those batons really are. I’m surprised Rodney survived. The police officers caught on tape were reported and cleared of all charges…until the video was leaked to the internet and media and African American riots FORCED the federal government to do something.

Joseph Guzman: Joseph Guzman: In 2006 Joseph Guzman and several of his friends attended a bachelor’s party. Upon leaving they were followed by police who claimed to have reason to suspect that Guzman was armed. Sure, he was black, and the stereotype-the racial profile-of blacks is that they’re all gun wielding maniacs. The police fired fifty shots at Guzman, who made no attempt to resist them. He gave them no reason to shoot, but shoot they did, fifty times. Guzman was hit with about twenty bullets including several in the chest and one in the head, but the police continued to shoot his downed body for now reason.

http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/04/02/doctor-tells-of-a-19-gunshot-wound-survivor/

Fifty shots? It required fifty bullets to take down one unarmed suspect? The white people weren’t suspected. The black man was. That’s intense.

Oscar Grant: This is another incident that happened to be caught on tape. Police arrived at a 2009 New Year Celebration after hearing reports of a fight in the rail station. Most of the people involved turned and ran away, but not Oscar. Oscar was the only suspect who cooperated. Another boy, one who happened to be white, was caught on the run and dragged back. They were placed in the corner where a multiple officers surrounded and began to interrogate them. Oscar was handcuffed and pushed on the ground. The white boy, I don’t know his name, is not harassed. You can see in the many videos that neither of the boys were doing anything suspicious. Oscar was actually being very polite, but he was still handcuffed and thrust on the ground. Then, one of the police officers pulls out a gun and shoots him. There’s a white boy beside him behaving in the exact same way but without his hands bound. The white boy clearly poses a greater threat than Oscar, but it is Oscar who gets shot. It is Oscar who was murdered. That’s intense, that’s a New Year execution.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46IQfVIAl8Y&feature=fvw

The police commissioner, after seeing the tape, tried to defend Officer Bart. He said, “we need to investigate.” It wasn’t until, once again, riots broke out that policeman faces any consequences for his actions.

And yet, these things are only exceptions to the norm in that people care. It’s going on all over America. The examples I provided originate from California and New York. I’m not even touching on the deep south. These are mild cases from the far north and the west, states that are supposed to be liberal, open minded, and progressive.

That's not intense to you? If any other nation was systematically violating the rights of an entire ethnic group the United Nations would be involved, unless that nation happened to be any nation other than Israel.
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Posted 8/23/09 , edited 8/23/09

ShroomInferno wrote:


SeraphAlford wrote:
The majority of African Americans are honest, normal people. They’re no different than anyone else, and as somebody with African American family I’m offended that anyone would suggest otherwise. What you described is simply racist profiling, and while some people would argue that it’s justifiable I would not. It’s like harassing a Muslim or an Arab at the airport, or paying women less than male employees for doing the same job. I don’t defend any of these things, I condemn them all.

Profiling and generalizing are just forms of thinly masked racism. It’s not fair to judge somebody to fit into a negative stereotype just because they have more skin pigments than you, or have a funny manor of dress, or don’t believe the same thing as you. People are just that, they’re people. Each one is an individual and should be treated as such. Profiling degrades humankind to the level of animals and resources.

I agree with you. I never understood why some of my acquaintances act so prejudiced towards gypsies. I have a friend who literally changes the side walk out of fear whenever she sees a gypsy coming along. I told her that with this behaviour she shouldn't be surprised if ever a gypsy is going to confront her with this. I don't really understand this reaction especially since I know that she never had any issues with gypsies, so she isn't even suffering from a personal "trauma" so to say.

But like I said...people just simply can't help it. It seems that it's hard for them to make such distinctions.


People are trained by their societies and cultures to be racist and prejudice. Christians against gays, Muslims against Jews, whites in the US against blacks, Czechs against the Roma (of course this prejudice reaches all across Europe and there are actually multiple skinhead groups in the United Kingdom dedicated to chasing the Gypsy out with terrorism), in Germany it’s the East Indians people hated, in Canada it’s the Chinese. It’s everywhere, and the racists are victims. They’re indoctrinated from an early age. Still, we must acknowledge the issue and attempt to cure them via education. You cannot educate if you don’t acknowledge and address the facts.
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