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Inside the mind of a Martyr
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Posted 8/23/09
It is said that if you want to your life, do it in a useful manner. Thats why my experiments always struggle when i do surgery.
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Posted 8/24/09 , edited 8/24/09
I have never once stated it was ok for Palestinians to get even with Israelis by killing children I am just stating it isnt hard to see why they are taught to hate jews. Reading about their horrid conditions imposed by Israelis, their day to day life, the disporportion of deaths hell that makes me angry with Israel myself. Unfortuantly all of the Israeli Jews will be stereotyped just because of this treatment and if they continue the then extremist will keep teaching their kids about the "evil jews". But this is just merely from me reading it, the people actually having to go through it is a lot worse. All I did was just point out the blatant racism in Israel. Like I stated we talk as if Israel is some non racist peace loving country but your never told what they really are. Not all Israelis are racist of course but I believe the majority of people in their government are because if they werent these jim crow laws wouldnt be in place. How ironic here in the USA we preach equality and peace for all yet we support a racist country such as this? You keep killing innocents, keeping them in a huge concentration camp, kicking them out their homes then please dont act surprise if they teach their children to hate you. Thats is all sorry for getting off topic just had to clear this up.

Me having to be muslim has nothing to do with this my sources come from non muslim sources.
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Posted 8/24/09

SeraphAlford wrote:


Yei wrote:

Yes, I did read it all, and now it's become two separate subjects. The individual cases you brought up in the beginning and all the Palestinians and their various terrorist activities in general. We already talked about the individual cases you brought up in the beginning, they were in crazy mental situations and extremists took advantage of them. Then we started talking about why Palestinians in general commit so much terrorism. I said the obvious reasons, and then you just started listing other irrelevant situations of oppressed people or extremists.

I didn't understand exactly what you were trying to get at by continuing to question why they don't do this, or why don't these other people do something similar, but obviously you were trying to say something about the Palestinians. And the whole time your point was that they have a unique "culture of hate"? And specifically, it's a culture of hate for the Jews. So they have all these extreme terrorist problems just because of their hateful culture? Right? And be clear on what you mean by culture.


We’re apparently on different wave lengths because the initial subject was never replaced. It simply progressed, and for me we were discussing both. That’s why I kept brining the names Wafa and Idris back. My whole point is that we have extremist Muslim groups here too. Yet, because they’re unable do large scale recruiting on an individual level they’re only scattered problems.

The people I brought up weren’t random. They’re not irrelevant. You said that Palestine produces so many terrorists because it’s desperate. I pointed out that if that were true then other desperate people would be producing terrorists on such a quantum scale too, and yet they’re not. I gave specific examples. Then you said it was because the extremists Muslims. Once again I pointed out that extremists Muslims exist everywhere and yet cannot function like they do in Palestine. You said the Palestinians are just retaliating for their losses in 1948, and I demonstrated the historical folly of that.

The two subjects are one and the same, because ultimately the larger picture doesn’t function without the smaller bits. I’m discussing the larger population, the organizations, and the institutes in terms of their ability to influence the individuals. Hamas would not work without grass roots support. In fact, that’s why it took Hamas so long to win an election and even longer to cease power. That’s why Hamas didn’t immediately jump to pursue its goal of Israeli eradication. No, it began as a humanitarian aid group for Palestinians using the Palestinian people’s greatest ally for funding: Israel.

When I say culture I mean a set of values, feelings, perspectives, aspirations, and attributes characterizing and fostered by a group of people within a specific geopolitical group.

In the years leading up to the Second World War about fifty percent of the United States wanted to support the Nazis. America was only just recently out of its own imperialistic phase. This was, after all, right after we annexed Hawaii, purchased the Philippines (a territory gain made possible by war and larger than the entire British Isles, one that made us an Eastern as well as a Western power) and captures Cuba from its Spanish occupants.

Yet, the progressive intelligentsia and the administration worked together to create an anti-Axis culture. The first issue of Captain America presented the Cap’ sporting his red-white-and-blue underwear and punching Hitler in the nose. His sidekick was busy kicking crude Japanese caricatures in the head. Super Man was occupied with a battle against Nazi aliens. Wonder Woman was the Kryptonian equivalent of a 20th century Moses. She lassoed the evil anti-Semites and while deflecting enchanted Nazi bullets with her golden armbands.

As the war progressed in Europe frankfurters became hotdogs and hamburgers became glory stakes. Henry Ford was silenced for his Nazi sympathy while the media was flooded with sensationalist yellow journalism slandering the axis. By the time Pearl Harbor was bombed and we were given an excuse to get involved America had already grown to despise the Germans and Japanese. Our culture of hatred had progressed so far that we were even willing to drop not one, but two nuclear bombs. In two days we killed more than 500,000 people--and we were glad! There was some opposition, but generally the bombing was marked with the same moral certainty as ever other attack on these subhuman monsters.

On the flip side our media’s continuous barrage of slavery in the years leading up to the civil war alienated the south in the eyes of not only the Union but also all of Europe. The confederates would’ve won the war if they had attracted British, French, or Spanish support as they had attempted. Yet, with the production of books such as Uncle Tom’s cabin and the writings of radical abolitionists such as Fredrick Douglas nobody wanted to help the south and everyone refrained.

Today there’s more free media and thus a less radical and less united population. This is typical of modern, progressive democracies including Israel. Khaled Abu Toameh is a Palestinian journalist who was born in Westbank and began his career working for the PLO's newspaper Al Fajr. He did well, a naturally eloquent writer. He even became editor. Yet, he pointed out that Al Fajr was not a newspaper. It was an institute of the PLO, and because of his extroversive criticism of Palestinian media he received multiple threats on his life. Many of his fellow journalists were killed or beaten. They received orders from above telling them what to write and how to write it. He was so fed up with being censored that he actually went to Jerusalem and began writing for the Jerusalem post. Now he complains that the lack of editing is profound that they often overlook typos and spelling errors that would’ve been caught in Palestine.

He writes about how throughout the Arab world doing research is difficult because Arab nations close their archives to researchers and expose only selective documents, especially when it comes to the years in the mid twentieth century or topics concerning their treatment of the Jews or contributions to pogroms against Jewish immigrants in Palestine. He points out that while Palestine is worse than most other Arab states, they’re guilty of controlling the media and censorship to a lesser degree.

So, they produce more terrorists than their progressive, modern, democratic brothers in the west, Europe, and even Israel. Palestine, however, goes a step further. Not only news they engrain texts books, school curriculums, and every day television from kids shows to soap operas with hate of the Jews. Their best selling literature are anti-Semitic documents. It’s no surprise that they produce even more terrorists.

Because television, radio, school, and literature are common sculpting factors in who we are on an individual and especially a cultural level. And when all of these things are imbued with nothing but racism and hate the culture becomes one of racism and hate.

“For the flight and fall of the other villages it is our leaders who are responsible because of their dissemination of rumors exaggerating Jewish crimes and describing them as atrocities in order to inflame the Arabs ... By spreading rumors of Jewish atrocities, killings of women and children etc., they instilled fear and terror in the hearts of the Arabs in Palestine, until they fled leaving their homes and properties to the enemy."– The Jordanian daily newspaper Al Urdun, April 9, 1953.


The individual situations you talked about happen all over, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, Syria, Iraq, even Britain. People with messed up mentalities just get brainwashed by some extremists to join, that's not something unique to Palestine. That's a separate explanation, the question of why there's so much terrorism and hate from Palestinians is simple and it's already been answered. The same reason why there was/is so much hate and terrorism against the British from the Irish.

When I say culture I mean a set of values, feelings, perspectives, aspirations, and attributes characterizing and fostered by a group of people within a specific geopolitical group.

So basically by "the Palestinians have a culture of hate" you mean "the Palestinians seem to hate Israel"? Ok? I think it's pretty obvious many Palestinians attack Israel and say bad things about Israel because they don't like it.
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Posted 8/24/09 , edited 8/24/09

Yei wrote:

The individual situations you talked about happen all over, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, Syria, Iraq, even Britain. People with messed up mentalities just get brainwashed by some extremists to join, that's not something unique to Palestine. That's a separate explanation, the question of why there's so much terrorism and hate from Palestinians is simple and it's already been answered. The same reason why there was/is so much hate and terrorism against the British from the Irish.

When I say culture I mean a set of values, feelings, perspectives, aspirations, and attributes characterizing and fostered by a group of people within a specific geopolitical group.

So basically by "the Palestinians have a culture of hate" you mean "the Palestinians seem to hate Israel"? Ok? I think it's pretty obvious many Palestinians attack Israel and say bad things about Israel because they don't like it.


No, it was not answered. You attempted to give the traditional one-sided Arab-camp answer that the Palestinians hate Jews because they’re occupied, but the Palestinians hated Jews long before they were occupied, long before any land was stolen; moreover, whenever the Jordanians and the Egyptians occupied them they didn’t hate the Jordanians and the Egyptians for it. And yes, individual issues like that happen all over, but like I said it doesn't happen in great abundance and with as much organization in places elsewhere, especially not to the degree in which it happens in Palestine: even Palestine outside of Gaza and Westbank.

And stop bullshitting, they don’t hate Israel. They hate Jews. They don’t acknowledge Israel. You can’t hate what you don’t acknowledge, and they were slaughtering Jews who had nothing to do with Israel. And they were hating the Jews long before there was any large scale attempt to create Israel.
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Posted 8/24/09 , edited 8/24/09

drizza wrote:
You keep killing innocents, keeping them in a huge concentration camp, kicking them out their homes then please dont act surprise if they teach their children to hate you. Thats is all sorry for getting off topic just had to clear this up.



Ah yes, clearing things up with propaganda and bullshit like compairing the entire Jewish ethnicity to Nazis. Nothing opens people's eyes like good old fashion racism.



How ironic here in the USA we preach equality and peace for all yet we support a racist country such as this?


So we shouldn't support any country with prejudice in it?

There goes Obama’s peace process to any Muslim country in the entire world. There goes our support of the European Union, of Japan-god knows Japan-hell, there goes our support of Canada for its discrimination against people with controversial opinions. There goes support of Australia and every nation in the entire world.

We also stand for democracy and separation of church and state. Doesn’t mean we should stop trading with the UAE or flooding Egypt with 3 billion dollars of foreign aid each year.

At least in Israel they're trying to stop it. Did you even watch all the parts to your own posted video? Thousands of people, Jew and Arab alike, came together in a protest against those discriminatory policies; which, by the way, are present in all the nations I listed.


And as I said before, my theory as to where that hate is coming from is above and ready for discussion.
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Posted 8/24/09 , edited 8/24/09

SeraphAlford wrote:


Yei wrote:

The individual situations you talked about happen all over, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, Syria, Iraq, even Britain. People with messed up mentalities just get brainwashed by some extremists to join, that's not something unique to Palestine. That's a separate explanation, the question of why there's so much terrorism and hate from Palestinians is simple and it's already been answered. The same reason why there was/is so much hate and terrorism against the British from the Irish.

When I say culture I mean a set of values, feelings, perspectives, aspirations, and attributes characterizing and fostered by a group of people within a specific geopolitical group.

So basically by "the Palestinians have a culture of hate" you mean "the Palestinians seem to hate Israel"? Ok? I think it's pretty obvious many Palestinians attack Israel and say bad things about Israel because they don't like it.


No, it was not answered. You attempted to give the traditional one-sided Arab-camp answer that the Palestinians hate Jews because they’re occupied, but the Palestinians hated Jews long before they were occupied, long before any land was stolen; moreover, whenever the Jordanians and the Egyptians occupied them they didn’t hate the Jordanians and the Egyptians for it. And yes, individual issues like that happen all over, but like I said it doesn't happen in great abundance and with as much organization in places elsewhere, especially not to the degree in which it happens in Palestine: even Palestine outside of Gaza and Westbank.


I think why some Palestinian may hate Jews is another question. Why many Palestinians hate Israel and commit terrorism has already been answered many times. The Prime Minister of Israel himself said he would also be a terrorist if he was in their shoes. It's not really a mystery.
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Posted 8/24/09 , edited 8/24/09

SeraphAlford wrote:


drizza wrote:
You keep killing innocents, keeping them in a huge concentration camp, kicking them out their homes then please dont act surprise if they teach their children to hate you. Thats is all sorry for getting off topic just had to clear this up.



Ah yes, clearing things up with propaganda and bullshit like compairing the entire Jewish ethnicity to Nazis. Nothing opens people's eyes like good old fashion racism.



How ironic here in the USA we preach equality and peace for all yet we support a racist country such as this?


So we shouldn't support any country with prejudice in it?

There goes Obama’s peace process to any Muslim country in the entire world. There goes our support of the European Union, of Japan-god knows Japan-hell, there goes our support of Canada for its discrimination against people with controversial opinions. There goes support of Australia and every nation in the entire world.

We also stand for democracy and separation of church and state. Doesn’t mean we should stop trading with the UAE or flooding Egypt with 3 billion dollars of foreign aid each year.

At least in Israel they're trying to stop it. Did you even watch all the parts to your own posted video? Thousands of people, Jew and Arab alike, came together in a protest against those discriminatory policies; which, by the way, are present in all the nations I listed.


And as I said before, my theory as to where that hate is coming from is above and ready for discussion.


Nope you cleared absolutely nothing at all. Thus I will continue to think Israel acts in a nazi fashion by what I am reading and how they treat their neighbor. In all of your threads you did nothing but try to justify this which is not surprising. After all your an American you get one view from the media and you grow from there. My stance stays we support, fund Israel a Jim Crow law nation which racism is fluent with racist statements written on walls in arab neighborhoods and seen on their television screens. I am not trying to butt in on you and Yei debate you may continue but at least before you talk about a group of people just so happening to hate another group for absoultly no reason but the fact they are jews at least understand their situation. As long as Israel continues the same policies nobody going to care about this propaganda we can hear on Fox news that is being written on the majority of these threads. Because what we see and maybe you are blind to it I dont know is a nation bullying and occupying another nation. Try as hard as you might to twist that around but it wont work buddy. I am getting too far off topic I apologize I just had to but in and set the record straight Israel is a racist country.

I dont believe your ignorant at all just we have two different views of this situation and I think they are unchangeable I feel like I hijacked this thread so I wont post anymore.
Posted 8/24/09

drizza wrote:


SeraphAlford wrote:


drizza wrote:
You keep killing innocents, keeping them in a huge concentration camp, kicking them out their homes then please dont act surprise if they teach their children to hate you. Thats is all sorry for getting off topic just had to clear this up.



Ah yes, clearing things up with propaganda and bullshit like compairing the entire Jewish ethnicity to Nazis. Nothing opens people's eyes like good old fashion racism.



How ironic here in the USA we preach equality and peace for all yet we support a racist country such as this?


So we shouldn't support any country with prejudice in it?

There goes Obama’s peace process to any Muslim country in the entire world. There goes our support of the European Union, of Japan-god knows Japan-hell, there goes our support of Canada for its discrimination against people with controversial opinions. There goes support of Australia and every nation in the entire world.

We also stand for democracy and separation of church and state. Doesn’t mean we should stop trading with the UAE or flooding Egypt with 3 billion dollars of foreign aid each year.

At least in Israel they're trying to stop it. Did you even watch all the parts to your own posted video? Thousands of people, Jew and Arab alike, came together in a protest against those discriminatory policies; which, by the way, are present in all the nations I listed.


And as I said before, my theory as to where that hate is coming from is above and ready for discussion.


Nope you cleared absolutely nothing at all. Thus I will continue to think Israel acts in a nazi fashion by what I am reading and how they treat their neighbor. In all of your threads you did nothing but try to justify this which is not surprising. After all your an American you get one view from the media and you grow from there. My stance stays we support, fund Israel a Jim Crow law nation which racism is fluent with racist statements written on walls in arab neighborhoods and seen on their television screens. I am not trying to butt in on you and Yei debate you may continue but at least before you talk about a group of people just so happening to hate another group for absoultly no reason but the fact they are jews at least understand their situation. As long as Israel continues the same policies nobody going to care about this propaganda we can hear on Fox news that is being written on the majority of these threads. Because what we see and maybe you are blind to it I dont know is a nation bullying and occupying another nation. Try as hard as you might to twist that around but it wont work buddy. I am getting too far off topic I apologize I just had to but in and set the record straight Israel is a racist country.

I dont believe your ignorant at all just we have two different views of this situation and I think they are unchangeable I feel like I hijacked this thread so I wont post anymore.


drizza it will never change period, the jews and arabs will always hate each other have been at war for 1000 of years and will be long after we dead and buried. The war started out for religious reasons and now is just hate between these two group of people. Also the gaza strip or a holy land for both groups is another huge reason why they figh.
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Posted 8/25/09 , edited 8/25/09
Why did almost all the Seraph thread are always fill with Israel/Palestine post lol?
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Posted 8/27/09

SeraphAlford wrote:

Whenever somebody asks why a suicide bomber would want to become a terrorist, would be so dedicated to mass murder that he/she would give his/her own life a political or religious conversation almost always ensues. Al Qaeda’s agents massacred three thousand innocent civilians because they strongly disagreed with the US government’s policy of foreign aid to Israel. Shiites claiming to be mujahedeen are battling to earn their place in paradise, to win their eternally replenishing virgin sex companions, to please the One True God. Palestinian bombers are attacking Israeli citizens and soldiers because they’re indoctrinated to do so, or because they’re desperate, or most likely an odd combination of the two.

I think that this is a tragedy. We’re so consumed with the theological and political debate that we never take the time to examine the actual individual. We forget that the self proclaimed mujahedeen, these aspiring martyrs, are people. They’re living human beings experiencing the exact same psychological conditions as so many Americans, Jews, Brits, Africans, Asians, and Europeans alike. They’re individuals with a lot on their mind. They’re victims and victimizers with friends, families, and thoughts not limited to the spectrum of politics.

Hussam Bilal Abdo was an unpopular fourteen year old Palestinian student in Gaza. He was desperate to earn the love and admiration of his classmates and somehow came to the conclusion that he could win their respect, as well as some money for his family, by dying in a suicide attack on IDF soldiers posted at the shchem checkpoint. He prepared for his assault by strapping on 8kgs of explosives and a suicide vest under his clothes. Apparently Hussam lost his courage halfway through the attack and approached the checkpoint with his arms up. Hussam called out to the Israelis for help, announcing that he had a bomb and crying, “I am afraid to die.” The Israelis delivered a pair of scissors to the child from a safe distance via a police robot and proceeded to instruct him on how to remove the explosives. Before it was over Hussam walked away wearing nothing but the jacket of one of the soldier’s he’d intended to kill.

The entire event was captured on tape and can be viewed along with a later interview on youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPU4UN03t7E

This was the fourth child suicide bombing attempt on shchem...in two months.

Wafa al-Bis was engaged to be married before she was badly burnt when her gas powered stove caught flame and exploded. The doctors who treated her injuries say that the wounds would’ve been fatal had it not been for their intervention. In their opinion she, like many Gazans, was lucky to receive free medical care from Israel. After the operation Wafa spent six months at the Israeli hospital where she apparently formed bonds with other Palestinian convalescents and Jewish staff members alike. Wafa described the atmosphere during her stay in Israel as warm and welcoming.

She returned home happily, but returned for her follow-up with twenty pounds of explosives stashed in her underwear. Since her visit to Israel her husband had left her because of the burns inflicted on her body by the cooking accident. She confessed to feeling alone and ugly and cried, “Give me a bomb!” to one of her peers at the hospital during her stay. During this time of confusion she was recruited by the al-Aqsa Martyr Brigades and indoctrinated with false accusations of Israeli police tearing pages out of a Qur’an. (her mother would later lament, “my child is sick and they used her!”)

IDF soldiers posted at a Gaza checkpoint received Israeli intelligence warning them of female suicide-bomber targeting an Israeli hospital. The soldiers ordered Wafa to stop and undress at which point she attempted to detonate herself and murder the men posted nearby but the explosives did not go off. The bombs were removed and safely detonated.

I managed to locate an NBC documentary and a BBC article on Wafa’s tragic story.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22XEkJY62VA&feature=response_watch

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4113538.stm

Front Page Magazine assembled a panel of experts to discuss how terrorist organizations like Hamas, Hezbollah, Al-Qaeda, and other terrorist organizations managed victimize and coerce other Islamic women into throwing down their lives to assassinate innocent civilians. The first female suicide bomber on Israel from Palestine, Wafa Idris, is a good example. Living misogynist society Idris was viewed as worthless because she could not bear children. Her husband beat and divorced her and her community shunned her. She was living as an outcast when terrorist organizations exploited her:

http://www.frontpagemag.com/readArticle.aspx?ARTID=7310

Thoughts, comments, ext.


Thank you SeraphAlford for these articles. I can be at time be partial slightly to Palestinians since they are usually not represented at times, but still it was nice to read on such insights.
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Posted 8/27/09

CecilTheDarkKnight_234 wrote:

drizza it will never change period, the jews and arabs will always hate each other have been at war for 1000 of years and will be long after we dead and buried. The war started out for religious reasons and now is just hate between these two group of people. Also the gaza strip or a holy land for both groups is another huge reason why they figh.


Actually, that’s not true. The Jews have maintained a continuous and prospering presence in Arab/Muslim countries throughout the Greater Middle East for thousands of years. Although they were living as second class citizens since the rise of Islam they were still offered professional and education opportunities. There were minor restrictions on their rights. They were allowed to practice their religion and pass it on to their children, for example, but not to gather converts. So, there was some discrimination since the time of the prophet (peace be upon him,) but comparatively speaking the Middle Eastern and Arab nations were fairly welcoming of the Jews. The Jewish immigrants and denizens alike provided them with labor forces willing to do the labor that Arabs and Muslims did not or could not do. Together the Jews and the Arabs created prospering societies.

There’s no historical animosity between the Jews and Arabs. This battle was created by the British.
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Posted 8/27/09

Northboundsnow wrote:

Thank you SeraphAlford for these articles. I can be at time be partial slightly to Palestinians since they are usually not represented at times, but still it was nice to read on such insights.


Look, I’m not against the Palestinians. I actually made a thread a while back in which I argued that all American foreign aid to Israel should immediately end until they agree to stop building settlements in the Westbank. I cited a speech in which Ronald Reagan described the cessation of building projects in the Westbank by the Jews as a signal of trust necessary for peace. I stand by my observation that peace would’ve been attained a long time ago if these people could simply trust each other.

The ceasefire before this recent outbreak could’ve been avoided if they had trusted each other. Israel was lifting the blockade and Hamas had dropped missile fire 90%. Yet, the area composing Gaza and nearby Israeli settlements now had a reputation for being dangerous. In Sderot 94% of the children show symptoms of post traumatic stress disorder and Gaza is Gaza. So, the people who used to trade with Gazans weren’t willing to go into the area until a lasting peace had been proven. They were afraid of rockets and they were afraid of the IDF. They were afraid that at any given moment Hamas and Israel would change their mind and start fighting: and then where would they be? They’d be caught in the middle. So, traffic into Gaza did increase and Hamas acknowledge this. Yet, it never returned to the number Hamas had expected. So, they assume Israel wasn’t lifting the blockade at the expected rate--and to some degree they were right. Missile fire did not completely stop and Israeli’s believe that Hamas was still allowing other terrorists to fire missiles. This is also partially true but not completely fair. Hamas has some corruption and there are several Hamas officials who openly boast that they in fact armed and encouraged terrorists from other organizations. Yet Hamas as an entity arrested a couple of these same terrorists and in fact made public calls for missile fire to stop.

Neither side trusted the other and so missile fire spiked, returned with a vengeance. Israel reestablished the blockade and war breaks out once again. You know the rest.

It’s trust they need! My problem is that the Palestinians elected Hamas, and so long as Hamas has control of Gaza there will be no trust. Since 2001 there has not been a single break without missile fire into Israel. It’s a war that never ends. And Israelis so frightened of being chastised by the UN and international community that it isn’t protecting its citizens. So, the citizens get angry. And when you get a rush of angry citizens in a democratic government bombs are dropped.

But we’re getting back off topic. I’m glad you enjoyed the articles. You might note the difference between the BBC and the NBC articles. I think the former demonstrates a clear bias against Israel. For example, they start out by saying “Israel claims,” as if it was Just Israel saying something and not backing it up. They don’t mention that Israeli reporters and news helicopters caught the whole thing on tape, that it’s not a matter of ‘claiming,’ so much as fact. They don’t mention that her treatment in Israel was warm and welcoming, that she formed a friendship with the doctors, and they neglected to include her mother’s statements that her daughter was ill and they exploited her.

I think the Palestinians get a lot of attention. They fire thousands of rockets into Israel and the news never shows that. Then when Israel retaliates suddenly you see all these casualties, all these damaged buildings, all of these wounded and dead. You never see the suffering Israelis. You’re never told about the billions of dollars of damage that have been done to Israel by terrorists. You never learn that the Israeli’s in Sderot are trapped in a never ending war.

You hear about the 700,000 Palestinians displaces and how the Jews took Israel. Yet with the exception of the anti-defamation league and a few independent scholars you never, ever hear about how the Arabs ceased enough land from the Jews to fit FOUR Israel’s into it. Even if Israel still had the land it captures in 1967 that STILL doesn’t match up to the amount of land the Arab/Muslims stole from them. Hell, how many people know that 825,000 Jews were displaced in 1948? Jews who actually owned the territory they were losing, unlike the Palestinians. Jews who’d spent thousands of years in these communities as compared to the Palestinians-most of which had only been in Palestine for about a hundred years at the time of the incident. They hated the Jewish immigrants but the fact is that their parents and grandparents were immigrants to Turkish territory.

I feel that the Israeli’s never get their side of the story told. The Palestinians have the United Kingdom, the United Nations, and the Arab League—they have the oil lords, and by extension all of Africa, Mexico, Japan, and all other nations relying on any member of the Arab league for oil. In fact, you can go back and see that EVERY major anti-Israeli UN resolution was accompanied by or preceded by oil embargoes or threats thereof on the part of the Arab nations.

Again, getting off topic. What are your thoughts on these individual cases? (If you like go ahead an PM me about the bigger issue, but in public let’s just stay on topic for now.)
Posted 8/27/09
Seraph, did I already mention that you're a pearl in this sink called CR forums? One of the most interesting forum poster and thread creator. =]
I know..it's off-topic..just had to say it as I finished reading through this thread. ^-^
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Posted 8/27/09

ShroomInferno wrote:

Seraph, did I already mention that you're a pearl in this sink called CR forums? One of the most interesting forum poster and thread creator. =]
I know..it's off-topic..just had to say it as I finished reading through this thread. ^-^


Wow, I’m just used to people badgering and telling me that I’m a Zionist liar who talks too much about Israel and Palestine. I'm glad you like my threads, though I don't know I'd call myself a pearl. lol.
Posted 8/27/09 , edited 8/27/09

SeraphAlford wrote:
Wow, I’m just used to people badgering and telling me that I’m a Zionist liar who talks too much about Israel and Palestine. I'm glad you like my threads, though I don't know I'd call myself a pearl. lol.


Yeah, I realised that much. I notice how "You're just a dumb American who's being brain-washed by the western media" is being used non-stop, when in fact, most media concerning the IsraelVSPalestine conflict always nicely depict how bad the Palestinians' lives are. At least..that's what it looks like in Europe, and the rest of the world probably, too.

Well, I wouldn't say that you're a Zionist. I consider you to be one of the most moderate debaters in this forum when it comes to this subject. At least you're trying to view the situation from both sides, and research accordingly. And your opinions also evolve..quite contrarily to others who seem to be still stuck with the same notions they had two years ago. I've long given up putting any effort into my posts when it comes to this forum...so I'm always amazed to see how actively you're informing and explaining to users what is going on in this world and all that in spite of the constant kvetching of a few individuals.

Kudos to that.
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