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The Evil in Human Hearts
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Posted 8/25/09 , edited 8/25/09

SeraphAlford wrote:

It means exactly what it says. Human nature is evil. We’re naturally prone to rape, murder, sadism, perversion, deceitfulness, and various other earthly attributes to our character. We can be taught to separate ourselves from these by society, but that’s not our natural, initial state. It’s programming, brainwashing, training. Now, your definition of evil may vary from one individual to the next.

By my definition, however, rape is evil by the very nature of its existence. In a universe of nothing but good there would be no rape. It’s like suffering. Suffering is evil by its very nature, but that doesn’t mean you’re being evil if you suffer. Well, human nature is evil but that doesn’t mean you’re evil for having an evil nature. In other words, your learned desire to be good has to outweigh your natural desire to be ‘earthly.’


Human nature isn't good or evil, good and evil are recent human invented concepts, they don't apply to nature and how it works. So a species nature is neither good or evil.

Human nature was and is simply survival. These "evil" things like corruption, mass murders, terrorism are all recent concepts only a few thousand, maybe a few tens of thousands of years old, that's far far younger than the origins of human nature, so they are not part of human nature, they are a result of man's increased intelligence. An animals intelligence can override its basic instincts and nature. If it couldn't nobody would be able to commit suicide, since staying alive is a powerful basic instinct.

And things like perversion / manipulation aren't evil, its natural, and manipulation can mean the difference between life and death.
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Posted 8/25/09

Allhailodin wrote:

Human nature isn't good or evil, good and evil are recent human invented concepts, they don't apply to nature and how it works. So a species nature is neither good or evil.

Human nature was and is simply survival. These "evil" things like corruption, mass murders, terrorism are all recent concepts only a few thousand, maybe a few tens of thousands of years old, that's far far younger than the origins of human nature, so they are not part of human nature, they are a result of man's increased intelligence. An animals intelligence can override its basic instincts and nature. If it couldn't nobody would be able to commit suicide, since staying alive is a powerful basic instinct.

And things like perversion / manipulation aren't evil, its natural, and manipulation can mean the difference between life and death.


Go back and read my first post and you’ll see that I made note of that. Like I said, secularly good and evil don’t exist. But your argument is flatly weak. Just because an item predates a category doesn’t mean that it doesn’t fit into that category. For example, stars were around in all their different stages for billions of years before we started classifying them as Red Giants or White Dwarves. But a White Dwarf star was still a white dwarf star before we comprehended what that meant or had the sophistication to discover that and give it a label.

But yes. Without religious we’re just biological machines, robot vehicles blindly programmed for the selfish preservation of molecules known to us as genes. That’s pretty close to the quote. I’ve cited it a billion times, about five hundred million times to you in particular since we keep having this conversation. But like I said. That's my definition of evil.
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Posted 8/26/09

SeraphAlford wrote:


leviathan343 wrote:


What does this mean?


It means exactly what it says. Human nature is evil. We’re naturally prone to rape, murder, sadism, perversion, deceitfulness, and various other earthly attributes to our character. We can be taught to separate ourselves from these by society, but that’s not our natural, initial state. It’s programming, brainwashing, training. Now, your definition of evil may vary from one individual to the next.

By my definition, however, rape is evil by the very nature of its existence. In a universe of nothing but good there would be no rape. It’s like suffering. Suffering is evil by its very nature, but that doesn’t mean you’re being evil if you suffer. Well, human nature is evil but that doesn’t mean you’re evil for having an evil nature. In other words, your learned desire to be good has to outweigh your natural desire to be ‘earthly.’


If humans were naturally evil, then where does goodness came from? If it can be taught, then who is the first to distinguish goodness?

In my POV. Humans were born carrying the traits of being evil and at the same time, being good. In our nature reside both, we tend to be greed sometimes and giving at the other time, though no one taught us how to. Because we possess both, thus making us neutral - balanced.

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Posted 8/26/09

Well, I believe in the Yin and Yang therefore all humans have a dark side. Its up to each individual to decide which personality of themselves is the most dominant. We are all selfish creatures who desire not only the basics such as food but the other materialstic items too.

I think we can control out innerbeast. We all have our own free will and self control yet for some, they do not know how to use it yet. It might take time for them to perfect this.
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Posted 8/26/09 , edited 8/26/09

hello1993 wrote:
If humans were naturally evil, then where does goodness came from? If it can be taught, then who is the first to distinguish goodness?

In my POV. Humans were born carrying the traits of being evil and at the same time, being good. In our nature reside both, we tend to be greed sometimes and giving at the other time, though no one taught us how to. Because we possess both, thus making us neutral - balanced.



What do you mean nobody taught us how? Almost as soon as they can talk children go through the ‘mine,’ phase. This isn’t a cultural development, it happens all over the world. Teaching children not to be selfish, to be generous, to share is one of the first things parents go through. It’s also one of the hardest lessons to learn. We are taught to be generous. Religions teach us to be generous and I don’t quite see how anyone can think otherwise. We are not born generous, and that’s a psychological fact.


Even if we acknowledge that there’s some good, say innocence, in our natural state the odds that it just HAPPENS to balance out are astronomical. It’s much more likely that we’d lean slightly to one side or the other, and my guess is the darker end of the spectrum. I don’t see how anyone who has studied this issue can come to any other conclusion.

We’re naturally racist, ignorant, selfish and not generous, hateful, sadistic, deceitful, lusty, manipulative, just generally evil.

The only area I see where an honest person can disagree is in his/her definition of evil. Some people think that whatever’s natural is good, and that’s their perspective. But what you’re saying, to me, seems more like believing what you want to be true. Not attacking you, I could be wrong. Just saying that's what it LOOKS like from my end.
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Posted 8/26/09 , edited 8/26/09

SeraphAlford wrote:


leviathan343 wrote:


What does this mean?


It means exactly what it says. Human nature is evil. We’re naturally prone to rape, murder, sadism, perversion, deceitfulness, and various other earthly attributes to our character. We can be taught to separate ourselves from these by society, but that’s not our natural, initial state. It’s programming, brainwashing, training. Now, your definition of evil may vary from one individual to the next.

By my definition, however, rape is evil by the very nature of its existence. In a universe of nothing but good there would be no rape. It’s like suffering. Suffering is evil by its very nature, but that doesn’t mean you’re being evil if you suffer. Well, human nature is evil but that doesn’t mean you’re evil for having an evil nature. In other words, your learned desire to be good has to outweigh your natural desire to be ‘earthly.’


Why is human nature evil? One can be nurtured to be sadistic, murderous, perverted, and deceitful.

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Posted 8/26/09

leviathan343 wrote:

Why is human nature evil? One can be nurtured to be sadistic, murderous, perverted, and deceitful.



I already told you how its evil, and what are you talking about? Sure, someone can be raised to be evil. That has absolutely nothing to do with the status of human nature.
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Posted 8/26/09

SeraphAlford wrote:


leviathan343 wrote:

Why is human nature evil? One can be nurtured to be sadistic, murderous, perverted, and deceitful.



I already told you how its evil, and what are you talking about? Sure, someone can be raised to be evil. That has absolutely nothing to do with the status of human nature.


When someone describes something with characteristics, they are taken to be universal unless otherwise. "Human nature is evil" is different than "human nature can be evil/human nature produces evil results". Semantics fail for you.
Posted 8/28/09
Evil is some bullshit based upon religious shit.
So I guess, yes, we're evil.
If self preservation and the need to continue our DNA is evil.
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Posted 8/28/09
well you have to consider the extreme circumstances these people (fictional in your examples) were under. When it comes to surviving on an uninhabited island, where you have to struggle for survival against other animals (beasts), your primitive survival instinct is likely to take over.

I'm sure it wouldn't happen in an instant, but over time as you have to survive for extended periods of time, you may have to cast of the idea of civil living, and survive.

However, i wouldn't call it evil, its survival of the fittest (more literally than in the Darwinian sense)

in some situtaions though it would be considered evil i guess like in lord of the flies, its think thats more like a dictatorship type evil like hitler; oppress (kill) the opposition. However once the opposition is gone it again becomes survival, rather than evil.
Posted 8/28/09

cdplayer6 wrote:

It has been portrayed through several crappy shows, movies (notably, Tom Hank's Cast Away), and novels like "The Lord of the Flies" that humans all carry an evil side to themselves that can take over and become a more obvious asset when "civilization" or laws are not present. Do you believe this is possible or can we control our "inner beast"?
"If I reduce others as simply below myself, I can then justify my actions towards those that I downplayed upon." That's the mindset of an elitist, regardless of his intentions were good or evil. There's nothing emotional, primal, nor natural in any sense of the way of that thinking. Yet it's calculating, civilized, and very systematic in our society. Also very "close-minded", mind you.

Therefore I don't see my inner-self as just another beast, but more like a mirror when polished enough. So it can reflect the truth about my surroundings through my feelings and emotions, thus gives me a more complete look at the world that we're in when I reflect upon myself.
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Posted 8/28/09

DomFortress wrote:


cdplayer6 wrote:

It has been portrayed through several crappy shows, movies (notably, Tom Hank's Cast Away), and novels like "The Lord of the Flies" that humans all carry an evil side to themselves that can take over and become a more obvious asset when "civilization" or laws are not present. Do you believe this is possible or can we control our "inner beast"?
"If I reduce others as simply below myself, I can then justify my actions towards those that I downplayed upon." That's the mindset of an elitist, regardless of his intentions were good or evil. There's nothing emotional, primal, nor natural in any sense of the way of that thinking. Yet it's calculating, civilized, and very systematic in our society. Also very "close-minded", mind you.

Therefore I don't see my inner-self as just another beast, but more like a mirror when polished enough. So it can reflect the truth about my surroundings through my feelings and emotions, thus gives me a more complete look at the world that we're in when I reflect upon myself.


You should write a book.
Posted 8/28/09

cdplayer6 wrote:
You should write a book.
And make enemies of every single elitists in our civilization? Love to.

But I would rather be a social worker, and do my good deeds upon the local community that I live by, with the people that I came to know and love.
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Posted 8/31/09 , edited 8/31/09
Humans are such vile creatures capable of good and evil intentions. Humans are ruled and controlled by lust,power, and greed. Just look at our past and the things we have done; all manners of evils and cruelty visited upon our fellow beings, human and other. Regard: war, slavery,rape,murder, environmental destruction,and emotional brutalities against even the most innocent and defenseless. Are these not perfect example of our inherent potential for evil. Im gonna post a few pics to prove my point if they are to graphic please feel free to delete them i hope i dont offend anyone.
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Posted 8/31/09
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