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Post Reply Vasto Lorde Discussion (Warning May Contain Spoilers)
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Posted 8/30/09
Of all the espada, which ones do you think were Vasto Lordes?

There's been very few times where Vasto Lordes have been discussed in the manga/anime. From those few moments, people have huge expectations for them. The most notable moment where they were discussed was when Hitsugaya explained what they are. He basically said that they were the size or normal humans and have fighting skills above the level of a captain. Further more he stated that if Aizen were to get 10 of these Vasto Lordes in his army, that it would be the end of Soul Society.

In this explanation he broke down the different type of Menos:


There are three levels of evolution, each with superior strength, speed, and intelligence compared to its previous form. The first of these is the Gillian which is large and powerful, but possesses very little intelligence and no individuality as a result of the merging of hundreds of hollows. If one of the hollows that now make up the gillian retains its consciousness, that consciousness takes over, and the gillian can continue to eat other hollows (including other Menos) and eventually evolve into an Adjuchas. Adjuchas act as leaders for groups of gillians, but if an adjuchas stops eating hollows, it will revert back in evolution, turning into gillian once again, permanently. From the adjuchas state, some have the potential to evolve into Vasto lordes. Vasto lorde are more humanoid in size and appearance and posses battle strength comparable or superior to a Soul Reaper captain


Now, lets analyze the information I've provided here.

We have Gillian:



We then have Adjuchas:



Finally, we have Vasto Lordes:




If we go by the above explanation of the stages of a menos, then wouldn't all the espada be technically Vasto Lordes?

The answer is yes. But, where the problem occurs is Aizen's intervention.

In Bleach, separate from the menos stages, exists Arrancar.

When we look at the espada, you must decifer who was as they appear before Aizen used the Hōgyoku. Granted they all received powerups from Aizen, some were more so than others.

Some of the espada may seem rather weak but lets think about something. We have the 3 stages, but each stage lasts a certain period of time before you advance to the next stage. It's not, I'm an Adjucas, i eat a bunch of hollow and then jump up to Vasto lorde and am immediately insanely powerful. What happens first is that once you've consumed a ton of other adjuchas, you then take on the form of a vasto lorde (Power, intelligence, most notably appearance and size). You take on that size but you still have growth where you become stronger and stronger.

I think that the top 4 espada (Not including Yammy), were all Vasto Lordes.

1.) Stark: Really powerful, if you read the manga, you see that he's fighting captains and vizards simultaneously
2.) Barragan: Pretty much seemingly invincible. His power was actually some of the strongest we've seen in the entire series thus far. He only lost due to his own absolute power against him.
3.) Harribel: She was beating up on Hitsugaya without even breaking a sweat. Hitsugaya used a new power and still can't beat her on his own.
4.) Ulquiorra: He killed Ichigo twice. Not much else to say. Ichigo was only able to defeat him by turning into some insanely powerful hollow/human hybrid that would have beaten anyone


Thoughts? Theories?
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Posted 9/3/09 , edited 9/3/09
We should see in the middle of the show where Grimmjow Transforms into a Vasto Lordes. (If that's really how it goes ) Grimmjow should Absorb Adjuchases
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Posted 9/4/09
So..you want us to answer which espada we think were vasto lordes.

Well the way I would theorize it is..

1. How they look in their release form, cause I believe they said that their release form is a resemblance of their original form before arrancar.
Vasto Lorde->Human
Adjuchas->Animal

So that means Ulquiorra (Bat?) and Halibel (Shark?) was not a Vasto Lorde.
Barragan resembled an old (skele)king, pretty humanize to me so good chance of Vasto Lorde
Stark is using a gun lol..pretty modern? human? haha seems Vasto Lorde since he is above Barragan.
But I wouldn't base it on strength as who was Vasto Lorde.
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Posted 9/4/09
I'd say Stark is definitely a vasto lorde without question, completely agree on him. He looked completely human before transforming and is pretty much entirely human looking after resurrection. And yea, he's got a gun as a weapon lol. Starks awesome
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Posted 9/4/09 , edited 9/4/09
Starrk's resurreccion form is a gunslinger/wolf pack leader so yea Starrk is most probably a VL since he doesn't have an animal/insect release nor of a giant monster entity.
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Posted 9/8/09
As far as Harribel being a shark, you can't write her off as not being a vasto lorde because of that. Because if you say that she's a shark, guess what? You also have to say that Starrk is a wolf then. Look at Harribel's pictures, she doesn't resemble an animal at all in her resurrection form.



She actually looks more human in her resurrection form than she does in her sealed state.


We really need more info on Vasto Lordes. I'd also like someone higher up than Hitsugaya to discuss it. Hitsugaya is the newest of the captains and isn't anywhere near as knowledgeable as the rest may be. Vasto Lordes are just so rarely brought up. This week's manga, or actually, I should say next week's manga, I think something might be said.
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Posted 9/8/09
well idk about you but lol...I didn't see a resemblance of a wolf in stark till i saw the wolf pack.

and yeah you are probably right about halibel, she does look more like human other than that shark loooking weapon she is holding.

but this is just theorizing, so what i said about who might be vasto lorde cuz of release, its probably not right
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Posted 9/14/09
I am begining to wonder if Wonderweiss is a Vasto Lordes. But since he hasn't really show his powers I can't say. I think Starrk has the most un animal like forms.
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Posted 11/12/09
vaste lordes are all ready stronger than an avarage shinigami captain level fighter, and the espada are all defeated by captains, stark even was defeated by 8th division captain's shikai, while in his released form, eventhough he is probably the stongest after the old man (general commander)
so none of the epsada are vaste lorde
besides, vaste lorde have the size and shape of humans, and thats what has been said, that doesnt mean they have to look like humans, like the espada do
besides, aizen is a captain, he would lose to a vaste lorde, so he cant get his hands on one of them, especially since their so rare
(only reason why top 3 captains cant defeat aizen is explained in the last bleach manga chapter, because theyve seen his shikai, ichigo hasnt, and a random vaste lorde probably neither, so ichigo might win if hes stronger, which he isnt (pretty weak for a main char, compared to top 5 chars), but a vaste lorde is, so...yeah
by the way, this the top 5 ive been talking about, and im pretty sure im right about it:
1. old man general
2. 8th division captain
3. ukitake (cant fight long because of his disease)
4. urahara
5. yorouichi
(zaraki only has high amount of spirit power, and when using both hands, doesnt garantee a victory because of his nature of loving to extend a fight to enjoy the fight even more, byakuya, well, he lost to ichigo, come on, you cant be weaker then ichigo when youre a captain, except soifon or mayuri, or the doggie captain)
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Posted 11/12/09
So confusing. My brain wasn't meant for complicated topics :S. But anyways I'll try...
Well, Ulquiorra is a vasto lordes but isn't Grimmjow one too. I thought he was but technically, I guess they're all Vasto Lordes.
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Posted 11/12/09

memphis834

Some of the espada may seem rather weak but lets think about something. We have the 3 stages, but each stage lasts a certain period of time before you advance to the next stage. It's not, I'm an Adjucas, i eat a bunch of hollow and then jump up to Vasto lorde and am immediately insanely powerful. What happens first is that once you've consumed a ton of other adjuchas, you then take on the form of a vasto lorde (Power, intelligence, most notably appearance and size). You take on that size but you still have growth where you become stronger and stronger.


Gonna quote this again to highlight this point otherwise everyone will miss it.

It's all about time people. The people I mentioned in the initial post can be Vasto Lordes. They just might be in the beginning stages of it. Take for instance Hitsugaya and Shunsui. Everyone would agree that the Shunsui is stronger than Hitsugaya correct? But guess what? Hitsugaya is a new captain. Shunshu has hundreds of years of experience and growth on him. They're both captains though. Yet you can see the huge gap in power. It works the same way with what I was saying in my first post. Just because you're a vasto lorde or a captain, it doesn't mean that instantly you'll be godlike. It takes time.
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Posted 11/14/09
I also think that Starrk and Harribel are Vasto Lordes because their resureccion forms are more "human-like" .
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Posted 12/8/09
its absolutely the three which aizen brought to karakura town, starrk, baragan, and harribel
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Posted 12/16/09
None of the Espada are Vasto Lorde. They're just Adjuches with Shinigami powers.
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Posted 12/19/09

TheYeager wrote:

None of the Espada are Vasto Lorde. They're just Adjuches with Shinigami powers.


Hmm.. you maybe correct. But then think about this carefully: Any arrancar that was a vasto lorde would take a human form instantaneously when they become a arrancar. Stark would be the most probable one. As to why he lost... Shunsui's shikai had a huge advantage over him, plus he was probably more skilled than stark.
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