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The Three Laws of Robotics and Artificial Intelligence
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Posted 9/4/09 , edited 9/4/09

DomFortress wrote:

Which is ever more so to require deeper introspects on my part. And I think that a fair trial for a crime that involves both human and AI will thus need: 1)a judge that's well versed with both artificial and authentic intelligences, therefore it can be both a human or an AI respectively. 2)a jury that consist of equal numbers of both human and AI jurors. And 3)a jointed team effort of both a human and an AI prosecutor for the victim and attorney for the accused. This justice system is of course only for crimes that involves both humans and AI's, when individual cases of crimes that either parties committed onto their own kinds, will be thus trialed and judged by their own kinds respectively.

As for methods of punishments that's best suited for an artificial intelligent criminal, now that's very interesting indeed! Since they don't understand the concept of inborn mortality, anything ranging from imprisonment to capital punishment will ultimately means nothing to their built-in immortality and their all encompassing intellectual values. Therefore I propose a range of hardware downgrades to the ultimate punishment on an AI's existence; a forced personality reset that will cause an AI's logic to crash due to conflicting identity issues. The AI will be spending the rest of its existence without knowing just why it got punished, when humans' style of punishment had always been about making the lessons stick by constantly making examples on our kinds.

It's ironic to think that the greatest pardon on a human criminal is a second chance to start a new life, can be a horrifying existence to an AI being forced to deny access to its past experiences. For try as they might, AI won't be the same as us humans, when they don't share our biological limitations.

And as for controlling the population of AI, I think the AI will know just how many individual existences they'll need in order to generate a democratic majority within their society: three. And the rest will be robotic drones without on-board self-awareness, with personality interfaces designed to interact with humans. Thus the AI tribunal can interact with individual human beings while operating from a safe distance. The number of drones needed in activation will be decided by the AI tribunal, for just how many drones per human interactions is required as representative.


That's what we called equal rights, even though AI and humans are really different in most aspect. I wonder when such society of malicious human kind would accept them as an equal being like us, where the discrimination to races, gender and nationality among human itself is still on such tension.

But yes, the punishment for AI should be different from what human received as our view to death is different, as they are system not souls. So the punishment of an AI could not be set as an example to other AI to prevent the crimes as their concept is different from us? In countries like Singapore, when drug(Narcotics, Marijuana) traffickers and user are being judged by capital punishment, it's really effective as there is no report of drug user amongst youth.

I wondering when AI advancement of morality really can be as same as what human kind had. When they can understand the values , norm and many other things as human feel. And when the equal rights of Robots really being implemented in modern society, could an AI becomes a representative of human beings and create policy for the sake's of a citizens across the country, such as being a President?

Personally, I think it could be happen when they can feel feelings and voice what their people wants, thus an AI could run as a president candidate when they've been accepted by both humans and AI citizen. Well, many stories of science fiction tells how AI could live as same as human beings, though. The question is, will it really happens in real life? lol ~ have to wait for couple of decades.

Add : Sci-fi manga about the robots that could live as human beings.

http://www.onemanga.com/Pluto/
However, in this manga Asimov's laws is exist but it's not being described as discrimination and not being a social problem in AI's society. Well, the main focus of this manga not about that, though. So it might not represent the image/picture of future's society with AI.

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Posted 9/5/09
Will Smith destroys the robots in the end
Posted 9/5/09

macphapie wrote:

Will Smith destroys the robots in the end

No.
He destroys the AI.
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LiquoriceJellyBean wrote:


macphapie wrote:

Will Smith destroys the robots in the end

No.
He destroys the AI.


I thought destroy wasn't literal but yeah... That's how it ends
Posted 9/6/09 , edited 9/6/09

Ryutai-Desk wrote:That's what we called equal rights, even though AI and humans are really different in most aspect. I wonder when such society of malicious human kind would accept them as an equal being like us, where the discrimination to races, gender and nationality among human itself is still on such tension.

But yes, the punishment for AI should be different from what human received as our view to death is different, as they are system not souls. So the punishment of an AI could not be set as an example to other AI to prevent the crimes as their concept is different from us? In countries like Singapore, when drug(Narcotics, Marijuana) traffickers and user are being judged by capital punishment, it's really effective as there is no report of drug user amongst youth.

I wondering when AI advancement of morality really can be as same as what human kind had. When they can understand the values , norm and many other things as human feel. And when the equal rights of Robots really being implemented in modern society, could an AI becomes a representative of human beings and create policy for the sake's of a citizens across the country, such as being a President?

Personally, I think it could be happen when they can feel feelings and voice what their people wants, thus an AI could run as a president candidate when they've been accepted by both humans and AI citizen. Well, many stories of science fiction tells how AI could live as same as human beings, though. The question is, will it really happens in real life? lol ~ have to wait for couple of decades.

Add : Sci-fi manga about the robots that could live as human beings.

http://www.onemanga.com/Pluto/
However, in this manga Asimov's laws is exist but it's not being described as discrimination and not being a social problem in AI's society. Well, the main focus of this manga not about that, though. So it might not represent the image/picture of future's society with AI.
However, just like you mentioned before that Asimov's second Law of Robotic is flawed, in Pluto,
This is also why I want to fix that flawed logic, by replacing The Three Laws of Robotic with an ethic algorithm for artificial intelligent. In fact, it's even possible that my ethic algorithm will eliminate the possibility of robot crime, when AI are constantly questioning the morality behind their every actions. And to think, a president that's so moral and ethical that he's incapable of committing crime. Now there's the making of a fine leader that can't be corrupted.

BTW Viz Media is now publishing the official English GN of Pluto, with extra materials like interviews with the editor and mangaka!

EDIT: I forgot to address your question regarding that "the punishment of an AI could not be set as an example to other AI to prevent the crimes as their concept is different from us?"

The examples set by others will always serve as lessons for the rest, this universal truth is the same with both humans and artificial intelligences. For that's one of the hallmarks of true self-awareness; from one individual recognizing another existence. So in that sense, the ultimate punishment to reset an AI, will prove to the rest of the AI that whatever the former did was an error, on its passing the wrong judgment that goes against its ethical programing.

Therefore, when a man will justify himself with his fundamental rights and freedoms, my AI shall do so with its ethics and morals. While men will pass judgments onto others based on values in actions, my AI shall do so based on the ethics and morals behind their thinking.


LiquoriceJellyBean wrote:


macphapie wrote:

Will Smith destroys the robots in the end

No.
He destroys the AI.

macphapie wrote:I thought destroy wasn't literal but yeah... That's how it ends
I disagree. What Will Smith's character ended up destroying in the end was an error, a flawed logic that's only designed to enslave the human passions. And he did so with the help of a true artificial intelligent.
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Posted 9/7/09 , edited 9/7/09

DomFortress wrote:


Ryutai-Desk wrote:That's what we called equal rights, even though AI and humans are really different in most aspect. I wonder when such society of malicious human kind would accept them as an equal being like us, where the discrimination to races, gender and nationality among human itself is still on such tension.

But yes, the punishment for AI should be different from what human received as our view to death is different, as they are system not souls. So the punishment of an AI could not be set as an example to other AI to prevent the crimes as their concept is different from us? In countries like Singapore, when drug(Narcotics, Marijuana) traffickers and user are being judged by capital punishment, it's really effective as there is no report of drug user amongst youth.

I wondering when AI advancement of morality really can be as same as what human kind had. When they can understand the values , norm and many other things as human feel. And when the equal rights of Robots really being implemented in modern society, could an AI becomes a representative of human beings and create policy for the sake's of a citizens across the country, such as being a President?

Personally, I think it could be happen when they can feel feelings and voice what their people wants, thus an AI could run as a president candidate when they've been accepted by both humans and AI citizen. Well, many stories of science fiction tells how AI could live as same as human beings, though. The question is, will it really happens in real life? lol ~ have to wait for couple of decades.

Add : Sci-fi manga about the robots that could live as human beings.

http://www.onemanga.com/Pluto/
However, in this manga Asimov's laws is exist but it's not being described as discrimination and not being a social problem in AI's society. Well, the main focus of this manga not about that, though. So it might not represent the image/picture of future's society with AI.


However, just like you mentioned before that Asimov's second Law of Robotic is flawed, in Pluto,


This is also why I want to fix that flawed logic, by replacing The Three Laws of Robotic with an ethic algorithm for artificial intelligent. In fact, it's even possible that my ethic algorithm will eliminate the possibility of robot crime, when AI are constantly questioning the morality behind their every actions. And to think, a president that's so moral and ethical that he's incapable of committing crime. Now there's the making of a fine leader that can't be corrupted.

BTW Viz Media is now publishing the official English GN of Pluto, with extra materials like interviews with the editor and mangaka!


I forgot to mention in Pluto, not all Asimov's laws being implemented in AI. The first law and 3rd laws might be there. But an AI does not have to follow any orders given by humans in this manga. As we know, the main character pretty much rebellious, lol.

Also there's an anime that much more focused on Robotics Laws. All 3 Asimov's laws are really being implemented in this anime. You could watch it on Crunchyroll
http://www.crunchyroll.com/library/Time_of_Eve



Haha, yes. If an Ai already becomes as advance as humans or even more than that till the extend they only can accept as good things to society. I really hope I can see that 'scenery' before I died.

but, don't you think the concept of morality really differ from person to person? What kind of morality an AI should have/develop? Like, for example. human's views of Abortion, Euthanasia and other morality's concept are really vary from single individual. Do you think Robot's morality concept would be vary as human? Well, in this case, there's no absolute correct or wrong. But for general crimes, I think AI would suit best to justify it as humanity does too.



DomFortress wrote:

EDIT: I forgot to address your question regarding that "the punishment of an AI could not be set as an example to other AI to prevent the crimes as their concept is different from us?"

The examples set by others will always serve as lessons for the rest, this universal truth is the same with both humans and artificial intelligences. For that's one of the hallmarks of true self-awareness; from one individual recognizing another existence. So in that sense, the ultimate punishment to reset an AI, will prove to the rest of the AI that whatever the former did was an error, on its passing the wrong judgment that goes against its ethical programing.

Therefore, when a man will justify himself with his fundamental rights and freedoms, my AI shall do so with its ethics and morals. While men will pass judgments onto others based on values in actions, my AI shall do so based on the ethics and morals behind their thinking.

That kind of punishment really suit and deserve for AI. I think it's good for their sake too. Well, we just hoping the reseted AI would not repeat their crime like humans.
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I gotta ask- who's morals and ethics would be introduced to these AIs? Do we (humans) all agree on what morals and ethics should be, or is this part of the learning experience from which they are suppose to "mature" as AI ? and that begs the question who and what are the AI learning from in order to gain the experience? Ah, if it is us, there goes your moral and ethical Pres. right down the tubes, for after the insight of raising children, even intelligent ones, they tend to ape the bad along with the good. We all learn from mistakes, sure, but with self awareness, won't selfish gratification likely follow in at least some situations. Okay, my run-on brain is losing track of how your improved laws for AI will failsafe us from being harmed, but it only takes one idiot act by a human, witnessed by the evolving AI to throw a monkey wrench into the AI's perception of how to respond to humans. No?
An image of Data and Lore, with the contrast between them as pertaining to the absence or inclusion of the element of emotion comes to mind. ( I liked the way the writers portrayed these two characters, even if it did show the dangers of losing ourselves to our emotions.)
Posted 9/12/09

farmbird wrote:

I gotta ask- who's morals and ethics would be introduced to these AIs? Do we (humans) all agree on what morals and ethics should be, or is this part of the learning experience from which they are suppose to "mature" as AI ? and that begs the question who and what are the AI learning from in order to gain the experience? Ah, if it is us, there goes your moral and ethical Pres. right down the tubes, for after the insight of raising children, even intelligent ones, they tend to ape the bad along with the good. We all learn from mistakes, sure, but with self awareness, won't selfish gratification likely follow in at least some situations. Okay, my run-on brain is losing track of how your improved laws for AI will failsafe us from being harmed, but it only takes one idiot act by a human, witnessed by the evolving AI to throw a monkey wrench into the AI's perception of how to respond to humans. No?
An image of Data and Lore, with the contrast between them as pertaining to the absence or inclusion of the element of emotion comes to mind. ( I liked the way the writers portrayed these two characters, even if it did show the dangers of losing ourselves to our emotions.)
I've always been, and forever be, a Trekkie at heart. Personally I just love a good space drama about how in an ideal futuristic world(no poverty, sickness nor prejudice), humans still struggling between their morality and what make them humans.

My AI algorithm can be simplified into one simple ethic: "survival of the smartest." And with that, I'll let the AI themselves to decide just what's the best example for them to refer to. When they could even decide to just follow their own morals and ethics, thereby them leaving us alone after seeing our own failed attempts at self-authentication. After all, I did made them according to my ideal of "true master of oneself."
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Posted 9/13/09
Ahhhhhh! help me, I never did test well and now your AIs and gonna delete me!
Posted 9/13/09

farmbird wrote:

Ahhhhhh! help me, I never did test well and now your AIs and gonna delete me!
Life is a lesson, which leaves us to be our own judges. So before you fear the AI, ask yourself this: just what's their reason to wipe us out, when my AI algorithm only ensure coexistence of intelligent beings?

You might want to reread all those previous discussion, before you fell into the usual habit of fear of the unknown.
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Posted 9/13/09
Aww! I was just making a joke ( alright a lame one!) Did I ruffle feathers? I actually like the ideas you present having been fascinated by the 3 laws of Robotics since discovering Asimov in my later teen yrs.
Posted 9/13/09

farmbird wrote:

Aww! I was just making a joke ( alright a lame one!) Did I ruffle feathers? I actually like the ideas you present having been fascinated by the 3 laws of Robotics since discovering Asimov in my later teen yrs.
Hardly, I'm just a lover at heart and a bastard by trade. That means even when I love the sound of my own ideas, I don't like to repeat them when they're out in the open.
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Posted 9/13/09
Program ever possibility in the world. And AI will be made :)

Not THAT hard.

Seeing how you can have thousands of people programming areas of it.

:)

But I wouldn't really WANT AI anyways O_o.
Posted 9/13/09

booboox wrote:

Program ever possibility in the world. And AI will be made :)

Not THAT hard.

Seeing how you can have thousands of people programming areas of it.


:)

But I wouldn't really WANT AI anyways O_o.
"Jack of all trade and master of none." If an AI is simply a collection of algorithm that can do anything, then what's not to say that it simply failed at being itself? When it isn't programmed to recognize intelligence.
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Posted 9/13/09

DomFortress wrote:


booboox wrote:

Program ever possibility in the world. And AI will be made :)

Not THAT hard.

Seeing how you can have thousands of people programming areas of it.


:)

But I wouldn't really WANT AI anyways O_o.
"Jack of all trade and master of none." If an AI is simply a collection of algorithm that can do anything, then what's not to say that it simply failed at being itself? When it isn't programmed to recognize intelligence.


It's like...

1) we don't WANT AI
2) if you break down human processes, and decisions, and think so deep at how we make our decisions and get our instincts, we can program an AI to do get that instinct too.
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