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WOW! When i thought drug companies could not get more corrupt
Posted 9/2/09 , edited 9/2/09
As the title says, I never thought drug companies could be this corrupt just to get a profit by selling their product. It's really starting to piss me off that our health care in this country has become such shit in the 20 years plus years that I have been alive hell even in the past 5 years watching it decline more. I am for some kind reform to stop these bastards making so much profit like this and taking advantage of people like you and me. It its me at home as well since I am 6 different meds for depression/anxiety etc. A drug company called pfizer has to pay 2.3billion dollars in damages for shady advertising and giving doctors big cuts etc. here is a link for more info and sorry for ranting so much. Feel free to post your thoughts and opinions on the subject.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Pfizer-to-pay-record-23B-apf-1176280604.html?x=0
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32552775/ns/business-businessweekcom/
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Posted 9/2/09
'I am against big Government but in this case, I have to say America would be better off if the health-care was run by the government and everyone had the same free health care. Other than what your tax.. for it, but it would be a lot less than you think.
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Posted 9/3/09
^
Like the UK with it's NHS (National Health Service)
Sadly it's not run very well, just take a look at the news and you'll see countless fuckups by a system that wasn't designed to profit.
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Posted 9/4/09

CecilTheDarkKnight_234 wrote:

As the title says, I never thought drug companies could be this corrupt just to get a profit by selling their product. It's really starting to piss me off that our health care in this country has become such shit in the 20 years plus years that I have been alive hell even in the past 5 years watching it decline more. I am for some kind reform to stop these bastards making so much profit like this and taking advantage of people like you and me. It its me at home as well since I am 6 different meds for depression/anxiety etc. A drug company called pfizer has to pay 2.3billion dollars in damages for shady advertising and giving doctors big cuts etc. here is a link for more info and sorry for ranting so much. Feel free to post your thoughts and opinions on the subject.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Pfizer-to-pay-record-23B-apf-1176280604.html?x=0
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32552775/ns/business-businessweekcom/


I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again. As somebody who spent half of his childhood in Europe, and who’s studied the topic, the only people who want socialized healthcare in America have never been to a nation with socialized health care.

Honestly, what’s going on in the senate scares the hell out of me. Seriously, if they try to socialize health care (and begin using my tax dollars to fund abortion,) I’m moving to Texas for the succession.

Socialized healthcare is a bad idea, especially with our government. Come on, people. They’ve done such a good job with the power and money we’ve given them so far that you want to give them more?!

A meeting with the doctor in a nation with socialized healthcare is not only hard as hell to get, it’s also like a day at the DMV. You ever been to one of those free clinics we have here in the US? Multiply that ten times over.
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Posted 9/4/09 , edited 9/4/09

Sunnyxx wrote:

^
Like the UK with it's NHS (National Health Service)
Sadly it's not run very well, just take a look at the news and you'll see countless fuckups by a system that wasn't designed to profit.


If we are gonna talk about government run health care we talk about the oldest (Germany) or the newest (Taiwan, if i remember correctly), then there is Britain NHS, they do have their fair share of problems and its usually because of lack of equipment. Taiwan despite being the newest and most successful also have their fair share of problems. If any1 have studied economics, they would have learn that a purely govenment run or purely privately run health care is more often lead to problems, inefficiency or lack of coverage and a mixture is needed.

Found this clip - Hope its relevant
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9E--8IQd3g

PS: The irony is there was such a case of Tainted Milk in China, guess US and China have LOTS in common.
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Posted 9/4/09

SeraphAlford wrote:


CecilTheDarkKnight_234 wrote:

As the title says, I never thought drug companies could be this corrupt just to get a profit by selling their product. It's really starting to piss me off that our health care in this country has become such shit in the 20 years plus years that I have been alive hell even in the past 5 years watching it decline more. I am for some kind reform to stop these bastards making so much profit like this and taking advantage of people like you and me. It its me at home as well since I am 6 different meds for depression/anxiety etc. A drug company called pfizer has to pay 2.3billion dollars in damages for shady advertising and giving doctors big cuts etc. here is a link for more info and sorry for ranting so much. Feel free to post your thoughts and opinions on the subject.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Pfizer-to-pay-record-23B-apf-1176280604.html?x=0
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32552775/ns/business-businessweekcom/


I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again. As somebody who spent half of his childhood in Europe, and who’s studied the topic, the only people who want socialized healthcare in America have never been to a nation with socialized health care.

Honestly, what’s going on in the senate scares the hell out of me. Seriously, if they try to socialize health care (and begin using my tax dollars to fund abortion,) I’m moving to Texas for the succession.

Socialized healthcare is a bad idea, especially with our government. Come on, people. They’ve done such a good job with the power and money we’ve given them so far that you want to give them more?!

A meeting with the doctor in a nation with socialized healthcare is not only hard as hell to get, it’s also like a day at the DMV. You ever been to one of those free clinics we have here in the US? Multiply that ten times over.


The socialized healthcare here in Canada is great from what I've experienced. It's not difficult to meet a doctor and it's nothing like the DMV. You call your doctor's office, make an appointment, and you meet him the next time he's available.

Health care in the US seems horrifying from all the cases I've heard about. Like hospitals and doctors refusing to treat people even in emergencies and letting them die because their insurance. It seems like it's ridiculously expensive for many people because it's a business now, all the companies involved are just trying to capitalize.

A least here in Canada, if someone is hurt and needs treatment, the hospital does whatever it can to help them instead of checking if they'll be paid to save a life first and refusing treatment.
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Posted 9/4/09
I don't know if I would trust these sources. MSNBC and Yahoo are both very liberally biased. And socialized health care (in the US) would be a terrible idea. In the UK their system is so bloated that they are the world's 3rd largest employer with 1.3 million employees.
Posted 9/4/09

SeraphAlford wrote:


CecilTheDarkKnight_234 wrote:

As the title says, I never thought drug companies could be this corrupt just to get a profit by selling their product. It's really starting to piss me off that our health care in this country has become such shit in the 20 years plus years that I have been alive hell even in the past 5 years watching it decline more. I am for some kind reform to stop these bastards making so much profit like this and taking advantage of people like you and me. It its me at home as well since I am 6 different meds for depression/anxiety etc. A drug company called pfizer has to pay 2.3billion dollars in damages for shady advertising and giving doctors big cuts etc. here is a link for more info and sorry for ranting so much. Feel free to post your thoughts and opinions on the subject.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Pfizer-to-pay-record-23B-apf-1176280604.html?x=0
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32552775/ns/business-businessweekcom/


I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again. As somebody who spent half of his childhood in Europe, and who’s studied the topic, the only people who want socialized healthcare in America have never been to a nation with socialized health care.

Honestly, what’s going on in the senate scares the hell out of me. Seriously, if they try to socialize health care (and begin using my tax dollars to fund abortion,) I’m moving to Texas for the succession.

Socialized healthcare is a bad idea, especially with our government. Come on, people. They’ve done such a good job with the power and money we’ve given them so far that you want to give them more?!

A meeting with the doctor in a nation with socialized healthcare is not only hard as hell to get, it’s also like a day at the DMV. You ever been to one of those free clinics we have here in the US? Multiply that ten times over.


i don't want universal care i can care less about that i just want a massive overhaul on the system to prevent this shit from happeing again but since you took out of context thanks. Lets drug companies keep taking advantage of us or insurance companies fucking taking advantage of people. Have fun in texas btw hope you last long.
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Posted 9/4/09

CecilTheDarkKnight_234 wrote:

i don't want universal care i can care less about that i just want a massive overhaul on the system to prevent this shit from happeing again but since you took out of context thanks. Lets drug companies keep taking advantage of us or insurance companies fucking taking advantage of people. Have fun in texas btw hope you last long.


I don’t recall having said that –you- wanted socialized healthcare. I just said that I think it’s a bad idea. As far as insurance companies taking advantage of people, how would you propose fixing that without socializing the system at least a little?

Concerning the succession, I think you’d be surprised out how effective it could be. See, if Texas succeeds I can guarantee you that at least two states will probably join them. Oklahoma and Alaska-because both have voted to reserve the right of succession that Texas is supposedly planning on employing.

Alaska is our number one oil producing state. Texas is our number one continental oil producing state. Oklahoma doesn’t have a lot of oil of its own, but the lines that provide oil for California and other western/northern states have to pass through the heartland. You have no idea how easy it would be for us to cut off the supply line.

Then there’s the military statistics. With California as a exception most Democratic states provide only a small percentage of their population to military service. The republican states, Oklahoma and Texas most especially, provide large percentages of their population to military service.

Now, I’m sure we couldn’t win. But we could really hurt the Union and hopefully in doing this we could force them to say: “It’s easier to give them what they want than to fight them.”

But that's another topic.
Posted 9/4/09

SeraphAlford wrote:


CecilTheDarkKnight_234 wrote:

i don't want universal care i can care less about that i just want a massive overhaul on the system to prevent this shit from happeing again but since you took out of context thanks. Lets drug companies keep taking advantage of us or insurance companies fucking taking advantage of people. Have fun in texas btw hope you last long.


I don’t recall having said that –you- wanted socialized healthcare. I just said that I think it’s a bad idea. As far as insurance companies taking advantage of people, how would you propose fixing that without socializing the system at least a little?

Concerning the succession, I think you’d be surprised out how effective it could be. See, if Texas succeeds I can guarantee you that at least two states will probably join them. Oklahoma and Alaska-because both have voted to reserve the right of succession that Texas is supposedly planning on employing.

Alaska is our number one oil producing state. Texas is our number one continental oil producing state. Oklahoma doesn’t have a lot of oil of its own, but the lines that provide oil for California and other western/northern states have to pass through the heartland. You have no idea how easy it would be for us to cut off the supply line.

Then there’s the military statistics. With California as a exception most Democratic states provide only a small percentage of their population to military service. The republican states, Oklahoma and Texas most especially, provide large percentages of their population to military service.

Now, I’m sure we couldn’t win. But we could really hurt the Union and hopefully in doing this we could force them to say: “It’s easier to give them what they want than to fight them.”

But that's another topic.


Well personally I would get rid of the pre existing condition bs to prevent people from getting health care in the 1st place. That way people at least can have health care but will have to pay just a little more if they choose to live unhealthy. Also I would have more regulation on the market to prevent doctors and pharmacist to stop getting such good and free benefits from popping pills to those who only have a few symptoms of depression or other bs conditions like restless leg syndrome etc. Another thing I would do is Cut down on greatly on mal practice suits so doctors would not have to worry about getting sued all the time and have to do so many unnecessary test also I would make sure people could buy any health insurance from anybody in any state. On the succession thing look at the civil war that went well but i don't want to talk any more about that but what i have learned in my life is what happens, happens.
Posted 9/4/09

digs wrote:

I don't know if I would trust these sources. MSNBC and Yahoo are both very liberally biased. And socialized health care (in the US) would be a terrible idea. In the UK their system is so bloated that they are the world's 3rd largest employer with 1.3 million employees.


sigh digs it's media period but just trust me on this just look at rush limbaugh he is very Conservative but well here you go is a fox news source as well
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,521928,00.html
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Posted 9/4/09 , edited 9/4/09

Yei wrote:

The socialized healthcare here in Canada is great from what I've experienced. It's not difficult to meet a doctor and it's nothing like the DMV. You call your doctor's office, make an appointment, and you meet him the next time he's available.

Health care in the US seems horrifying from all the cases I've heard about. Like hospitals and doctors refusing to treat people even in emergencies and letting them die because their insurance. It seems like it's ridiculously expensive for many people because it's a business now, all the companies involved are just trying to capitalize.

A least here in Canada, if someone is hurt and needs treatment, the hospital does whatever it can to help them instead of checking if they'll be paid to save a life first and refusing treatment.


I didn’t mean to attack Canada, Yei. Canada really is one of my favorite countries in the world. As far as socialized healthcare goes I also think your nation has one of the best systems because it eliminates death panels, though it replaces them with computers from before the turn of the century.

As far as what you’ve heard about American Healthcare it sounds to me like you’ve watched Sicko, but you must remember the Michael Moore is a lying propagandist. There’s actually a Canadian documentary about how twists the truth, exaggerates, omits relevant facts, and flatly lies. The documentary is actually nicer to him than I would’ve been, but it still clearly demonstrates that Michael Moore is a less reliable source for information than John Hagee with his bullshit “Christian Zionist,” movement among hyper conservative Evangelicals.

As it stands our hospitals are not allowed to deny care to patients in emergency situations or critical conditions. There are laws regulating the conduct of hospitals. One example is that whenever a woman has been raped they’re required to give her the morning after pill. However, the system isn’t utopian and sometimes medical professionals are required to make hard decisions. This is true of both of our systems but when it comes down to it we make our choices on different merits.

Let’s say you have two patients who need a heart transplant but only one heart available. I know, this is over simplified, but you’ll get the point. During the 1960s the Supreme Court of Canada ruled to make the decision matrix biased in favor of certain social characteristics. So, if somebody has an attribute more favorable to society they’re more likely to be kept alive.

Here we make a decision based on a more individual level. Instead of considering somebody as though they’re only as valuable as they are useful to society we consider everyone equal and then decide based on who is most likely to survive the operation. So, yes, some people really do get shafted. Say, if you’re getting lung surgery and you’re a smoker. Well, if the person you’re vying for the position with isn’t a smoker you’ll just have to go without. But that’s true of Canadian healthcare too.

The other factor we consider is in fact finances, but again this is indirectly true of the Canadian system as well-though most Canadians don’t seem to know it. So, yes. If you have better insurance you have a better chance of being saved because that allows the hospital to make more money and thus help more people.

For those of us who cannot afford health insurance, myself included, there are government systems for emergency situations. If all else fails you can file bankruptcy. People hear the word bankruptcy and freak out, but my dad filed bankruptcy twice in his life and my mother once. My step-dad filed once too. In all of these cases it actually, in the long run, helped their credit and because of that they’ve been able to get better health insurance. And the beauty of this is that their insurance now is so extensive that it even covers me because I have no income outside of my school grants and subsidized loans. (This stops when I turn twenty one, however.)

I didn’t mean to attack Canada, Yei. Canada really is one of my favorite countries in the world. As far as socialized healthcare goes I also think your nation has one of the best systems because it eliminates death panels, though it replaces them with computers from before the turn of the century.

As far as what you’ve heard about American Healthcare it sounds to me like you’ve watched Sicko, but you must remember the Michael Moore is a lying propagandist. There’s actually a Canadian documentary about how twists the truth, exaggerates, omits relevant facts, and flatly lies. The documentary is actually nicer to him than I would’ve been, but it still clearly demonstrates that Michael Moore is a less reliable source for information than John Hagee with his bullshit “Christian Zionist,” movement among hyper conservative Evangelicals.

As it stands our hospitals are not allowed to deny care to patients in emergency situations or critical conditions. There are laws regulating the conduct of hospitals. One example is that whenever a woman has been raped they’re required to give her the morning after pill. However, the system isn’t utopian and sometimes medical professionals are required to make hard decisions. This is true of both of our systems but when it comes down to it we make our choices on different merits.

Let’s say you have two patients who need a heart transplant but only one heart available. I know, this is over simplified, but you’ll get the point. During the 1960s the Supreme Court of Canada ruled to make the decision matrix biased in favor of certain social characteristics. So, if somebody has an attribute more favorable to society they’re more likely to be kept alive.

Here we make a decision based on a more individual level. Instead of considering somebody as though they’re only as valuable as they are useful to society we consider everyone equal and then decide based on who is most likely to survive the operation. So, yes, some people really do get shafted. Say, if you’re getting lung surgery and you’re a smoker. Well, if the person you’re vying for the position with isn’t a smoker you’ll just have to go without. But that’s true of Canadian healthcare too.

The other factor we consider is in fact finances, but again this is indirectly true of the Canadian system as well-though most Canadians don’t seem to know it. So, yes. If you have better insurance you have a better chance of being saved because that allows the hospital to make more money and thus help more people.

For those of us who cannot afford health insurance, myself included, there are government systems for emergency situations. If all else fails you can file bankruptcy. People hear the word bankruptcy and freak out, but my dad filed bankruptcy twice in his life and my mother once. My step-dad filed once too. In all of these cases it actually, in the long run, helped their credit and because of that they’ve been able to get better health insurance. And the beauty of this is that their insurance now is so extensive that it even covers me because I have no income outside of my school grants and subsidized loans. (This stops when I turn twenty one, however.)

As far as the DMV comments, I stand by it. Having to get inspected and then wait for 6-18 weeks your doctor files forms and wait for the DoL to make decisions would be unacceptable here in America.

Favoring infants with certain genetic traits is also disgusting to me. It completely tosses out any illusion of equality amongst the human race and instead adopts an ideology startlingly similar to that of Nazi Germany-which, by the way, was considered to have an amazing healthcare system.

We sure as hell wouldn’t ship a child off to Burma and revoke their citizenship because they have a genetic predisposition to disease. That's something you'd see in a primitive society like Sparta or Sumeria.


EDIT:

Canada’s health care system is like a bloated bureaucracy. Actually, while living in Seattle Washington I met several Canadians who came to America to get their healthcare because it was easier to access and didn’t take as long. In fact, Canada’s hospitals have trouble providing timely healthcare to many patients with critical conditions and as a result often redirect patients to American hospitals, according to R. Loch Macdonald, chief of the division of neurosurgery at St. Michael's Hospital in Toronto.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/article661794.ece

Our system has problems, but it's fast, it's not as stressing, and it's certainly not as prejudice.
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Posted 9/4/09

CecilTheDarkKnight_234 wrote:

Well personally I would get rid of the pre existing condition bs to prevent people from getting health care in the 1st place. That way people at least can have health care but will have to pay just a little more if they choose to live unhealthy. Also I would have more regulation on the market to prevent doctors and pharmacist to stop getting such good and free benefits from popping pills to those who only have a few symptoms of depression or other bs conditions like restless leg syndrome etc. Another thing I would do is Cut down on greatly on mal practice suits so doctors would not have to worry about getting sued all the time and have to do so many unnecessary test also I would make sure people could buy any health insurance from anybody in any state. On the succession thing look at the civil war that went well but i don't want to talk any more about that but what i have learned in my life is what happens, happens.


I don’t think you could accomplish those goals, admirable though they may be, without socializing the system. Maybe I’m wrong. As far as the civil war goes, back then the south actually had a better chance of winning than the revolutionaries did when they rebelled against England. They only lost because A) they didn’t have factories for producing goods, They weren’t able to recruit foreign support. But in the modern world where oil is the life blood of society Texas would have absolutely no trouble pulling in support from nations all over the world.
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Posted 9/4/09 , edited 9/4/09


I know it wasn't an attack on Canada, I was talking about the system of health care not the country. So most other countries with socialized health care have "death panels"?

Regardless of what you think of Michael Moore, those cases still mean something. Unless they were all actors, the things that happened to those people really happened. Like having to choose which finger to reattach because the guy couldn't afford both. And the baby girl dying because she was denied treatment at the hospital (so I guess they broke the law) because her insurance said she had to go to another hospital. And people being denied insurance because of their health or being screwed over by their insurance and having to pay ridiculous amounts of money for health care. How do you explain all the cases like these?


As far as the DMV comments, I stand by it. Having to get inspected and then wait for 6-18 weeks your doctor files forms and wait for the DoL to make decisions would be unacceptable here in America.

Favoring infants with certain genetic traits is also disgusting to me. It completely tosses out any illusion of equality amongst the human race and instead adopts an ideology startlingly similar to that of Nazi Germany-which, by the way, was considered to have an amazing healthcare system.


Where do these things happen?
Posted 9/4/09

SeraphAlford wrote:


CecilTheDarkKnight_234 wrote:

Well personally I would get rid of the pre existing condition bs to prevent people from getting health care in the 1st place. That way people at least can have health care but will have to pay just a little more if they choose to live unhealthy. Also I would have more regulation on the market to prevent doctors and pharmacist to stop getting such good and free benefits from popping pills to those who only have a few symptoms of depression or other bs conditions like restless leg syndrome etc. Another thing I would do is Cut down on greatly on mal practice suits so doctors would not have to worry about getting sued all the time and have to do so many unnecessary test also I would make sure people could buy any health insurance from anybody in any state. On the succession thing look at the civil war that went well but i don't want to talk any more about that but what i have learned in my life is what happens, happens.


I don’t think you could accomplish those goals, admirable though they may be, without socializing the system. Maybe I’m wrong. As far as the civil war goes, back then the south actually had a better chance of winning than the revolutionaries did when they rebelled against England. They only lost because A) they didn’t have factories for producing goods, They weren’t able to recruit foreign support. But in the modern world where oil is the life blood of society Texas would have absolutely no trouble pulling in support from nations all over the world.


well it doesn't hurt to have dreams and those are mine for health care but oh well
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