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Fur is murder "debate"
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32 / F / Pluto
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Posted 1/6/08

sky2high wrote:

not over at all. ok, eating meat is essential for humans to stay healthy, and its natural to eat meat.
running over a possum- accident
spaying cats- not murder in the least, just controlling population, not killing living things
bird gets stuck in 6 pack plastic thingy- accident, preventable, but not murder, you didnt throw that plastic just so you could kill a bird and use it for yourself to look good.

killing an animal that we wouldnt normally eat just for the fur it has- murder. if we used cows fur i wouldnt care, because they already are going to be killed. but an animal that otherwise would be left alone, as a luxury of the rich? yes, this is sooooo equivalent to all those previous things, accidents and spaying cats. nice comparison.


Ok, first, we do use cow... skin kinda.. for leather. Second, my point was that it's not murder because murder is a term for humans only. If you "accidentally" kill another human there are concequences. If you run over a person it's manslaughter.. if you run over a possum it's road kill. Third, so killing for food is ok, but killing for clothing is not? Do you not need clothes to be protected from the elements? Now I know your saying to yourself, that's what the textile industry is for. But hey, that's what tofu, yogurt and various protien filled non meat foods are for.

I am so sick of all the "eco friendly" people questioning one of the founding principles of all societies. man>animal. We're at the top of the food chain. And while that does not give us the right to torture lesser beings, it does enable us to use them to improve our way of life. Sounds harsh, I know, but that's one of our baser animal instincts. We're the only ones that NEED clothing, that have a concept of clothing. Fur was utilized long before the invention of polyester, and just because we now have alternative options does not make thousands of years of fur immoral. It doesn't make it wrong now either.


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22 / M / Amurka
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Posted 1/6/08

applexshampoo wrote:


siththomas wrote:


applexshampoo wrote:


siththomas wrote:


applexshampoo wrote:


blablabla9876 wrote:

does it matter? its just fur. god damn animal rights activists


yes it does matter, because believe it or not we share out home with them! they have a great impact on our planet. how stupid are you?


You're are making claims such as "they have a great impact on our planet" etc. Yes that is true but you have done nothing to support your argument now have you?


neither have you. the information is accessible and if you PM me i'll be more the happy to point you in the right direction but me posting statistics for you to just over look and continue on with your life isn't going to support anything


I have done more than enough to support my argument. You don't want to post statistics because you have no statistics or they are probably made up or googled. You have nothing to support your argument all you're doing is making fallacious attacks on others. Now pointing me in the right direction do you mean animal activist direction? If that is the "right" direction I will have to decline. I am by no means an animal activist.


please show me the support of your argument? i don't see it anywhere, show me that the fur trade doesn't have a big enough effect for it to be dismantled.

killing too much is bad, thats about all you've said so far..

if you want to know the negitive<--(negative)effect the fur trade has i can provide the information if you want to decline then shut the fuck up about something you obivously<--(obviously) don't know or want to know about

that's all i'm<--(I'm) saying


I never once said that it wasn't a big enough affect to be dismantled. Point out where I said this. I did say killing too much is bad. That isn't my whole argument the other part of my argument is how this whole topic is sensationalized and I have supported that argument. I never once said I declined the information you had either what i did say I decline your invitation to point be in the "right" direction.
spelling errors in read. Go eat your salad and shut your mouth.
Posted 1/6/08

applexshampoo wrote:


blablabla9876 wrote:


applexshampoo wrote:


blablabla9876 wrote:

does it matter? its just fur. god damn animal rights activists


yes it does matter, because believe it or not we share out home with them! they have a great impact on our planet. how stupid are you?


I don't see animal being slaughtered left and right where I live. So yeah doesn't matter to me and it doesn't impact the way I live. Also do you support PETA?


yeah, you don't see the war in the middle east either yet it is effecting the whole world! no, i believe peta is too neutral in the subject


again the war in the middle east is not affecting my daily life I don't give a shit. Also you animal rights activist see what your beloved PETA is doing
http://www.petakillsanimals.com/ PETA has killed over 14,419 animals while only managing to find homes for 304 of them. Thats just from 98 to 05
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26 / M / Texas
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Posted 1/6/08

Ashamaru wrote:


andthisismyusername wrote:


applexshampoo wrote:


blablabla9876 wrote:

does it matter? its just fur. god damn animal rights activists


yes it does matter, because believe it or not we share out home with them! they have a great impact on our planet. how stupid are you?



the elimination of one species or even a few isn't a big deal. thousands upon thousands ofspecies have come and gone. the environment has an equilibrium that will moderate itself.


Not when Humans screw it up. The environment won't just keep pumping out squirrels just because we need fur jackets.

Anyway, I don't care. Humans should just kill off a bunch of the species that way humans will die off. All of us humans are just stupid anyway.


not all humans just you. humans aren't screwing anythig up. if we need squirrels for coats, humans would control and moderate their population and take care of them to ensure there are enough just like humans do when hunting things like deer. initially when the "white man" came to america, there were only a few thousand deer, but becausewe liked hunting them, we took care of them so can hunt them some more. now deer populatios number in the millions.
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M / sydney, australia
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Posted 1/6/08

siththomas wrote:


applexshampoo wrote:


siththomas wrote:


applexshampoo wrote:


siththomas wrote:


applexshampoo wrote:


blablabla9876 wrote:

does it matter? its just fur. god damn animal rights activists


yes it does matter, because believe it or not we share out home with them! they have a great impact on our planet. how stupid are you?


You're are making claims such as "they have a great impact on our planet" etc. Yes that is true but you have done nothing to support your argument now have you?


neither have you. the information is accessible and if you PM me i'll be more the happy to point you in the right direction but me posting statistics for you to just over look and continue on with your life isn't going to support anything


I have done more than enough to support my argument. You don't want to post statistics because you have no statistics or they are probably made up or googled. You have nothing to support your argument all you're doing is making fallacious attacks on others. Now pointing me in the right direction do you mean animal activist direction? If that is the "right" direction I will have to decline. I am by no means an animal activist.


please show me the support of your argument? i don't see it anywhere, show me that the fur trade doesn't have a big enough effect for it to be dismantled.

killing too much is bad, thats about all you've said so far..

if you want to know the negitive<--(negative)effect the fur trade has i can provide the information if you want to decline then shut the fuck up about something you obivously<--(obviously) don't know or want to know about

that's all i'm<--(I'm) saying


I never once said that it wasn't a big enough affect to be dismantled. Point out where I said this. I did say killing too much is bad. That isn't my whole argument the other part of my argument is how this whole topic is sensationalized and I have supported that argument. I never once said I declined the information you had either what i did say I decline your invitation to point be in the "right" direction.
spelling errors in read. Go eat your salad and shut your mouth.


oh i get it now. its the "i have nothing to say to you so i'm going to point out that you don't use proper grammar on and internet forum" argument eh?

real mature and only makes you look like very pompous

i didn't attack your opinion on sensationalism did i? keep in context of this argument

"I don't think fur is a bad thing, it helps the animal population stay where it should be."

i asked if you had information to support this claim which you didn't its just you opinion which its based on what again?

yeah, this is going no where. go correct someone else’s grammar cause that obviously concerns you a hell of a lot
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Posted 1/6/08
It's wrong to take fur from animals just for fashion. What's worse it the way that they do it! If you watch Earthlings, you will see a part in the documentary where they show an animal that is still alive and blinking even after they ripped the fur off of it. It is one of the most horrible and cruel things.

This is a good video to watch:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1282796533661048967
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M / Menzoberranzan
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Posted 1/6/08
At siththomas, you correcting that guy's grammar doesn't make you seem any smarter, you just quoted him and used firefox's auto-spell feature to make him seem stupid.
Way to go....

It's specifically stated in the Bible that man has dominion over 'All the animals that crawl on land, swim in the sea, and that fly in the air. This could be translated in the wrong way, but to me that means that killing a few animals is alright.

I consider humans to be a balancing force between animals. But, unfortunately humans tend to hoard wealth. In other words, we might only need to kill 4 foxes, but we end up making whole farms dedicated to harvesting more than we need. While I'm still neutral on this specific argument, I would like to recognize some of the more foolish arguments stated on both sides.
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M / sydney, australia
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Posted 1/6/08

blablabla9876 wrote:

again the war in the middle east is not affecting my daily life I don't give a shit. Also you animal rights activist see what your beloved PETA is doing
http://www.petakillsanimals.com/ PETA has killed over 14,419 animals while only managing to find homes for 304 of them. Thats just from 98 to 05


the fact you don't think the war is not effecting your everyday life gives us an insight to your worldly knowledge. come back when you have gotten a clue please

also i said i didn't support PETA that article discredits me how?
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26 / M / Texas
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Posted 1/6/08
besides, if god didn't want us to wear animals, he wouldn't have made them out of fur
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28 / M / Dublin, Ireland
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Posted 1/6/08 , edited 4/21/08

andthisismyusername wrote:


Ashamaru wrote:


andthisismyusername wrote:


applexshampoo wrote:


blablabla9876 wrote:

does it matter? its just fur. god damn animal rights activists


yes it does matter, because believe it or not we share out home with them! they have a great impact on our planet. how stupid are you?



the elimination of one species or even a few isn't a big deal. thousands upon thousands ofspecies have come and gone. the environment has an equilibrium that will moderate itself.


Not when Humans screw it up. The environment won't just keep pumping out squirrels just because we need fur jackets.

Anyway, I don't care. Humans should just kill off a bunch of the species that way humans will die off. All of us humans are just stupid anyway.


not all humans just you. humans aren't screwing anythig up. if we need squirrels for coats, humans would control and moderate their population and take care of them to ensure there are enough just like humans do when hunting things like deer. initially when the "white man" came to america, there were only a few thousand deer, but becausewe liked hunting them, we took care of them so can hunt them some more. now deer populatios number in the millions.


No, dumbass. All humans are stupid. We think we aren't animals just because we can build skyscrapers. No, the only thing that separates us from every other animal are opposable thumbs and the ability to combine tools together. Humans are a plague and need to die. Anything we touch is guaranteed to die. We aren't intelligent, just melodramatic.
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24 / M / California
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Posted 1/6/08 , edited 4/21/08

hq145 wrote:


sky2high wrote:




Ok, first, we do use cow... skin kinda.. for leather. Second, my point was that it's not murder because murder is a term for humans only. If you "accidentally" kill another human there are concequences. If you run over a person it's manslaughter.. if you run over a possum it's road kill. Third, so killing for food is ok, but killing for clothing is not? Do you not need clothes to be protected from the elements? Now I know your saying to yourself, that's what the textile industry is for. But hey, that's what tofu, yogurt and various protien filled non meat foods are for.

I am so sick of all the "eco friendly" people questioning one of the founding principles of all societies. man>animal. We're at the top of the food chain. And while that does not give us the right to torture lesser beings, it does enable us to use them to improve our way of life. Sounds harsh, I know, but that's one of our baser animal instincts. We're the only ones that NEED clothing, that have a concept of clothing. Fur was utilized long before the invention of polyester, and just because we now have alternative options does not make thousands of years of fur immoral. It doesn't make it wrong now either.




you again use a bad comparison. when we needed fur, sure i'm all for it. but when vain rich people buy it to look good, i think its wrong
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26 / M / Texas
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Posted 1/6/08 , edited 4/21/08

Ashamaru wrote:


andthisismyusername wrote:


Ashamaru wrote:


andthisismyusername wrote:


applexshampoo wrote:


blablabla9876 wrote:

does it matter? its just fur. god damn animal rights activists


yes it does matter, because believe it or not we share out home with them! they have a great impact on our planet. how stupid are you?



the elimination of one species or even a few isn't a big deal. thousands upon thousands ofspecies have come and gone. the environment has an equilibrium that will moderate itself.


Not when Humans screw it up. The environment won't just keep pumping out squirrels just because we need fur jackets.

Anyway, I don't care. Humans should just kill off a bunch of the species that way humans will die off. All of us humans are just stupid anyway.


not all humans just you. humans aren't screwing anythig up. if we need squirrels for coats, humans would control and moderate their population and take care of them to ensure there are enough just like humans do when hunting things like deer. initially when the "white man" came to america, there were only a few thousand deer, but becausewe liked hunting them, we took care of them so can hunt them some more. now deer populatios number in the millions.


No, dumbass. All humans are stupid. We think we aren't animals just because we can build skyscrapers. No, the only thing that separates us from every other animal are opposable thumbs and the ability to combine tools together. Humans are a plague and need to die. Anything we touch is guaranteed to die. We aren't intelligent, just melodramatic.


No, dumbass. All humans are stupid. kinda agree
We think we aren't animals just because we can build skyscrapers. agree
No, the only thing that separates us from every other animal are opposable thumbs and the ability to combine tools together. agree
Humans are a plague and need to die. nah
Anything we touch is guaranteed to die. not really
We aren't intelligent, just melodramatic. totally

i agree with your biblical rant too

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Posted 1/6/08 , edited 4/21/08

sky2high wrote:

you again use a bad comparison. when we needed fur, sure i'm all for it. but when vain rich people buy it to look good, i think its wrong



So if a poor girl saves up and buys a fur coat because she likes the way it looks and feels, that's ok? Just getting clarification, is it that fur is a status symbol that's got your knickers in a bunch? I thought the question was whether or not fur was murder. Well, no... murder is for humans only.. that's been established. So we alter the question to what we are arguing about. Is fur morally wrong, as we no longer have an actual need for it? At least I thought that's what I was arguing. Now it seems that I'm also arguing that rich people have a right to fur just as much as that mountain man with a bear rug on his floor.
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M / Menzoberranzan
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Posted 1/6/08 , edited 4/21/08
You know, I'm going to go try to make a rock bleed. It'll make more sense than your comments, and I won't feel like an idiot for listening to it. Have a good life, I don't feel like continuing this conversation anymore.

Although I see the point that you made earlier is right, It's still not completely true, most people don't consider themselves as animals because they don't run in front of cars. And quite frankly, dogs can't build computers, they can't even identify themselves in a mirror.

And one last point. It would be a sad day when I had to depend on people liking me merely because I was smart, but If that's the only thing that works for you, go for it. It's obviously not your personality.
Posted 1/6/08 , edited 4/21/08

eldiablo312 wrote:


x0needlesandguns0x wrote:

^^ But the whole point of "fur is murder" that in this day and age you don't really have to kill animals to survive, and since it's unnecessary, some people find it cruel and wasteful.


actually it is very necessary to kill certain animals or else they over populate and screw with the population of the other animals in the area.


You mean invasive species, I assume?

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