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Why do you think Communism is good or bad?
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Posted 4/27/10
This my best way of saying this .Life is not fair and it never will be that is a fact of life. If people are involved corruption going to be there no mater what kind of government. the best form is to allow me to make my own choice and live with them. Less government more money for me. Your looking for a fantasy world No hard feeling your a passionate person
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Posted 4/27/10
. Lfe is not fair and it never will be, there's all ways going to be crooks government or corporate I have run into this allot lately people who think life is fair or should be. This is a cold blooded to say it this way but people have been the top predators on this planet for some time now. Many people still act this way sad but true.
Yei
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Posted 4/27/10 , edited 4/27/10

Allhailodin wrote:


Yei wrote:

China and Russia were not really socialist. The most basic principle of socialism is that workers be in charge of production. That was not part of China or Russia, they were both totalitarian states, not socialist states.

Corporations (aka, private tyrannies) are another issue, I don't think we should discuss them now.


Your description of socialism is fine with me, i just wanna be in charge of my own life and run my business my own way without having unnecessary, stupid, and heavily burdening regulations slammed down my throat.

But if the SU wasn't socialist why is it called USSR, instead of USCR ( Union of Soviet Communist Republics ) or USTR (Union of Soviet Totalitarian Republics), its specifically called USSR, the word socialist in in the name. Why then ?


Russia wanted the moral prestige of having created the first socialist state, and that would give it global support from people who knew what socialism was. And of course to make the Russians think they were getting socialism. That's the best reason I've heard.

The majority of the world has been enslaved under imperialist capitalism for centuries, and socialism is widely seen as the obvious way to get a just society and for people to get control of their own countries. So socialist revolutions gain a lot of support for the morality they represent in freeing countries from imperialism, but they always to fail because of outside intervention (mostly the US) and internal resistance. And just to keep control of the country, the "socialists" or "communists" who realize things aren't going to work out turn totalitarian. But they keep the label of "socialist" or "communist" as a sort of refusal to face the reality that they failed and to seem like they have good intentions.

I think most people know what communism is, it's total, extreme socialism, where everybody collectively owns all the wealth and property and everyone is equal (which I think would be impossible). That should be common knowledge, but then how did people think Russia was a communism? Or that China is one now? The communist party is ruling China, but is everyone collectively owning everything, is everyone equal? It's pretty obvious that there has been no society that's even come close to communism.
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Posted 4/27/10 , edited 4/27/10

Yei wrote:

Russia wanted the moral prestige of having created the first socialist state, and that would give it global support from people who knew what socialism was. And of course to make the Russians think they were getting socialism. That's the best reason I've heard.

The majority of the world has been enslaved under imperialist capitalism for centuries, and socialism is widely seen as the obvious way to get a just society and for people to get control of their own countries. So socialist revolutions gain a lot of support for the morality they represent in freeing countries from imperialism, but they always to fail because of outside intervention (mostly the US) and internal resistance. And just to keep control of the country, the "socialists" or "communists" who realize things aren't going to work out turn totalitarian. But they keep the label of "socialist" or "communist" as a sort of refusal to face the reality that they failed and to seem like they have good intentions.

I think most people know what communism is, it's total, extreme socialism, where everybody collectively owns all the wealth and property and everyone is equal (which I think would be impossible). That should be common knowledge, but then how did people think Russia was a communism? Or that China is one now? The communist party is ruling China, but is everyone collectively owning everything, is everyone equal? It's pretty obvious that there has been no society that's even come close to communism.


In communist countries the government owns everything, land, homes, even the peoples lives. it has all the money too. Not the people. The government.

Examples. North Korea, whats his name(the dictator there, can't remember his name right now) owns everything and petty much everyone, and everyone works for him, they have no money, and last time i saw a night arial pic of nk no electricity either.

Screw that.

China - Hu Jintao (I think thats you spell his name) the current owner of the china, runs the government, although i suppose if the communist party really wanted to they could probably kick his ass out, anyway, everything is highly regulated, controlled, the government decides the peoples job i think as well. Some people are forced to work in those factories against their will. Don't get paid much either.

Screw that.

So communism sucks.


'A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government. ' -- Thomas Jefferson.

The exact opposite of communism.
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Posted 4/28/10

Allhailodin wrote:


Yei wrote:

Russia wanted the moral prestige of having created the first socialist state, and that would give it global support from people who knew what socialism was. And of course to make the Russians think they were getting socialism. That's the best reason I've heard.

The majority of the world has been enslaved under imperialist capitalism for centuries, and socialism is widely seen as the obvious way to get a just society and for people to get control of their own countries. So socialist revolutions gain a lot of support for the morality they represent in freeing countries from imperialism, but they always to fail because of outside intervention (mostly the US) and internal resistance. And just to keep control of the country, the "socialists" or "communists" who realize things aren't going to work out turn totalitarian. But they keep the label of "socialist" or "communist" as a sort of refusal to face the reality that they failed and to seem like they have good intentions.

I think most people know what communism is, it's total, extreme socialism, where everybody collectively owns all the wealth and property and everyone is equal (which I think would be impossible). That should be common knowledge, but then how did people think Russia was a communism? Or that China is one now? The communist party is ruling China, but is everyone collectively owning everything, is everyone equal? It's pretty obvious that there has been no society that's even come close to communism.


In communist countries the government owns everything, land, homes, even the peoples lives. it has all the money too. Not the people. The government.

Examples. North Korea, whats his name(the dictator there, can't remember his name right now) owns everything and petty much everyone, and everyone works for him, they have no money, and last time i saw a night arial pic of nk no electricity either.

Screw that.

China - Hu Jintao (I think thats you spell his name) the current owner of the china, runs the government, although i suppose if the communist party really wanted to they could probably kick his ass out, anyway, everything is highly regulated, controlled, the government decides the peoples job i think as well. Some people are forced to work in those factories against their will. Don't get paid much either.

Screw that.

So communism sucks.


'A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government. ' -- Thomas Jefferson.

The exact opposite of communism.


I lived in communism for 15 years, and it was nothing like that. Where did you get all those one - sided lies? And not all communist countries and systems are the same. That goes for democracy and socialism too. For some it works, for some it don't.
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Posted 4/28/10

blancer wrote:

I lived in communism for 15 years, and it was nothing like that. Where did you get all those one - sided lies? And not all communist countries and systems are the same. That goes for democracy and socialism too. For some it works, for some it don't.


Not all communist countries are highly tyrannical like that, some are, some aren't. If it works for you then so be it.

No 2 countries are the same, each has its own individual set rules and ways of doing things, some work better than others, and some don't work as well as others.
Posted 4/28/10
No type of -ism is good. End of story.
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Posted 4/29/10

Allhailodin wrote:


blancer wrote:

I lived in communism for 15 years, and it was nothing like that. Where did you get all those one - sided lies? And not all communist countries and systems are the same. That goes for democracy and socialism too. For some it works, for some it don't.


Not all communist countries are highly tyrannical like that, some are, some aren't. If it works for you then so be it.

No 2 countries are the same, each has its own individual set rules and ways of doing things, some work better than others, and some don't work as well as others.



SeraphAlford wrote:

Society needs elements of both communism, or at least socialism, and capitalism. Whenever you get too extremely capitalist you run into private monopolies.

Examples: Andrew Carnegie’s Steal Company, John D. Rockefeller’s Standard Oil Company, and the industrial revolution in general.

Whenever you get too extremely communist you run into public monopolies.

Examples:
Soviet Russia, North Korea, education in the United States, healthcare in Ontario, Canada.

Also, somebody here made a comment about how life quality in a communist state is low. Well, that’s true because in a strict communism you lose personal freedoms. Like, I want to be a writer. But, since the state doesn’t need artists to functions I don’t get to be a writer. Instead, the state chooses a job for me and tells me what job they need done. So, if there’s a shortage on rice farmers they’ll pull me out of the city and put me on the rice farm. Also, the monopolies make the state inefficient and thus poor. In Soviet Russia, for example, the average Russian spent 2 hours every day waiting in line.

On the flip side have any of you guys ever read about the Industrial Revolution? Have you ever heard of company towns? What about Farmers in the late nineteenth century? Have you ever seen, “Death of a Salesmen,” or read enjoyed any of the literature from that time?

The worst conditions we endure are not during times of extreme economic depression, but rather extreme economic expansion.


A past post by SeraphAlford says it best.
Yei
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Posted 4/29/10 , edited 4/29/10

Allhailodin wrote:

In communist countries the government owns everything, land, homes, even the peoples lives. it has all the money too. Not the people. The government.

Examples. North Korea, whats his name(the dictator there, can't remember his name right now) owns everything and petty much everyone, and everyone works for him, they have no money, and last time i saw a night arial pic of nk no electricity either.

Screw that.

China - Hu Jintao (I think thats you spell his name) the current owner of the china, runs the government, although i suppose if the communist party really wanted to they could probably kick his ass out, anyway, everything is highly regulated, controlled, the government decides the peoples job i think as well. Some people are forced to work in those factories against their will. Don't get paid much either.

Screw that.

So communism sucks.


'A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government. ' -- Thomas Jefferson.

The exact opposite of communism.


You haven't read Karl Marx's Communist Manifesto, have you?

In communists countries the governments don't own everything, that's totalitarian states. China and North Korea are totalitarian.

If you actually read Karl Marx's work, you would see communism is absolute socialism in which everything is owned collectively by everyone and therefore makes everyone equal. Is that the case in China and North Korea? Obviously not.

Just like socialism, no one bothers looking up what communism is.
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Posted 4/29/10

Yei wrote:

You haven't read Karl Marx's Communist Manifesto, have you?

In communists countries the governments don't own everything, that's totalitarian states. China and North Korea are totalitarian.

If you actually read Karl Marx's work, you would see communism is absolute socialism in which everything is owned collectively by everyone and therefore makes everyone equal. Is that the case in China and North Korea? Obviously not.

Just like socialism, no one bothers looking up what communism is.


Nope, haven't read it.

I was basing my model of it off of what I see in the so called communist countries, aka China, North Korea, Russia to a lesser extent.

If communism is absolute socialism where everything is owned by the people, and the people have all the money, wheres the government come it ? Need one of those.
Posted 4/29/10

Allhailodin wrote:


Yei wrote:

You haven't read Karl Marx's Communist Manifesto, have you?

In communists countries the governments don't own everything, that's totalitarian states. China and North Korea are totalitarian.

If you actually read Karl Marx's work, you would see communism is absolute socialism in which everything is owned collectively by everyone and therefore makes everyone equal. Is that the case in China and North Korea? Obviously not.

Just like socialism, no one bothers looking up what communism is.


Nope, haven't read it.

I was basing my model of it off of what I see in the so called communist countries, aka China, North Korea, Russia to a lesser extent.

If communism is absolute socialism where everything is owned by the people, and the people have all the money, wheres the government come it ? Need one of those.


the weird thing is china is well partially still communist but they got a taste of capitalism and look at their economy now, it is booming liking crazy with all the goods that they produce.
Yei
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Posted 4/29/10

Allhailodin wrote:


Yei wrote:

You haven't read Karl Marx's Communist Manifesto, have you?

In communists countries the governments don't own everything, that's totalitarian states. China and North Korea are totalitarian.

If you actually read Karl Marx's work, you would see communism is absolute socialism in which everything is owned collectively by everyone and therefore makes everyone equal. Is that the case in China and North Korea? Obviously not.

Just like socialism, no one bothers looking up what communism is.


Nope, haven't read it.

I was basing my model of it off of what I see in the so called communist countries, aka China, North Korea, Russia to a lesser extent.

If communism is absolute socialism where everything is owned by the people, and the people have all the money, wheres the government come it ? Need one of those.


That's why I don't think communism makes sense, everyone needs to be compliant. Some sort of government could still exist, the only thing communism suggests is that everyone have the same amount of wealth and be equal.

Like I said before, totalitarian states label themselves as lots of things, but there's no reason to take them seriously when the reality is so obvious.


CecilTheDarkKnight_234 wrote:

the weird thing is china is well partially still communist but they got a taste of capitalism and look at their economy now, it is booming liking crazy with all the goods that they produce.


In what way is China still communist? I think it's one of the most extreme capitalist states in the world. Yes, the economy is booming for certain cities in China, the turn to capitalism benefited a small percentage of the population. But the large majority of Chinese people are essentially slaves now, living in extreme poverty. Pure capitalism the way it works today is great if you have no respect for human rights, and if you're ok with a small percentage of the population having all the wealth.
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Posted 4/29/10 , edited 4/29/10

Yei wrote:

That's why I don't think communism makes sense, everyone needs to be compliant. Some sort of government could still exist, the only thing communism suggests is that everyone have the same amount of wealth and be equal.

Like I said before, totalitarian states label themselves as lots of things, but there's no reason to take them seriously when the reality is so obvious.


So everyone is equally poor, why isn't there a scenario where everyone is roughly equally rich, not billionaire rich, cause that's just ridiculous, but like several hundred thousand dollar rich, most small business owners that I know are actually millionaires,so if more people owned their own businesses seems to me that more people would have more money and the wealth would be roughly more equal.

Its impossible to have everyone truly equally rich or poor, so as long as its roughly in the same ballpark it should be fine.


In what way is China still communist? I think it's one of the most extreme capitalist states in the world. Yes, the economy is booming for certain cities in China, the turn to capitalism benefited a small percentage of the population. But the large majority of Chinese people are essentially slaves now, living in extreme poverty. Pure capitalism the way it works today is great if you have no respect for human rights, and if you're ok with a small percentage of the population having all the wealth.


That's why you don't use 100% pure capitalism. true capitalism allows for monopolies, you force the company to split up into multiple smaller companies, but the aspect of capitalism where anyone can own their own business and make as much money as they want is pretty nice. Its only human nature to want to make money. But poverty in china is improving, its been improving for a while now, they just have so many people in their country theres not enough jobs or money for everyone, and not all of china is developed yet. So the poverty will improve over time, but no matter where you go you have poverty, its just how it is.

Lazy people who don't wanna work hard will have no money, its only natural, not saying the Chinese are lazy, cause their not, they work really hard.

The Chinese economy may be somewhat capitalist, but the government sure isn't. its totalitarian as you say.

And as I understand it, the people don't get to completely own their own companies, its partly owned by the government there, i could be wrong tho.
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Posted 5/2/10

digs wrote:


Yei wrote:


tarakelly wrote:

Communism if you like mass murder it fine. The wealthy are the heads of party and military. Stallion has been said murder30 to 40 million after WW11 was over. China Mao Zedong estimate 50 to 70 million. Cambodia and Vietnam millions but finding numbers is difficult with all the different wars. If people could act like ants it would work well. Please show me a working communist country. I am assuming this post was a joke


None of those were communist or any form of socialist states. Socialism is probably the fairest, most logical form of society humans have come up with so far.

I'd recommend studying what socialism is first before talking about it, US indoctrination on this topic has been going on for a century so I can understand how people already have set views and yet don't know what they're talking about.


Actually they were communist and socialist states. Mao Zedong was part of the Communist Party of China. Stalin was part of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union. The Soviet Union's official name was the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. The official name of Vietnam is the Socialist Republic of Vietnam. These countries were all communist/socialist nations and the wicked leaders who murdered millions were part of communist socialist political parties.

My personal opinion on communism is that it is one of the worst forms of government. It's a terrible political philosophy that makes everyone slaves to the state. I also think socialism is a terrible form of government as well. People should have freedom and small government, not big government regulating what is "fair" and having the whole nation dependent on the government.


Oh, what's in a name, call cow dung a 'rose', it is not a rose, call totalitarianism 'Communism' and it is not Communism. Call N. Korea a 'People's Democratic Republic...' and it is hardly representative of the people, Democracy, or a Republican form of government.
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Posted 5/6/10
In my opinion, Communism will never work. There are too many restrictions and controls by the government/regime. Communism is just an idea to gather people to support you in taking down a government that's already in place. For instance, Mao Zedong used his influence on the peasantry and told them that he will improve their lives and economy. So he took over China of course, but did the lives of the peasants improve? Not only did it not improve, the lives people living in the cities did not improve either. Now after Deng Xiaoping's economic reforms and going towards a more capitalists reform, we see that Communism does not work. I hope that was clear, not really in the mood of writing about history and all.
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