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Sigh the ignorance of some Americans never cease to amaze me...
Posted 9/9/09

drizza wrote:

Here is a good article relevant to this topic:

Who Does He Think He Is?
What Gives Obama the Right to Speak to American School Children?

By CHARLES R. LARSON

What right does Barack Obama have to speak to American school children? Who does he think he is—the President of the United States?

What right to suggest that American children send him a letter with suggestions that he might use to help the country? That’s down right un-American, or certainly un-conservative. How dare he suggest that Americans might be concerned about other Americans?

What right to tell American school children to work hard, that the future of the country depends on their success? If they want to drop out of school, that’s their choice.

What chutzpah to talk to our children about values. We all know what family values are—they’re for my family and they don’t extend to yours. Who the hell cares about your family?

And the value of education? Isn’t American education socialism, relinquishing what is best for our children and letting those decisions be made by teachers, administrators, and elected school boards? Where can this possibly lead us—to health coverage for the country’s fifty million deadbeats who don’t have a job?

Why would sane adults want their children to be indoctrinated by the President of the United States?

Charles R. Larson, Professor of Literature at American University, believes that parents who argue their children should not listen to the President of the United States need to be sent back to grade school for a mandatory six years of basic education.
Now that would've been funny, if it wasn't for the fact that Charles R. Larson had captured the mindsets of those parents so well, by him repeating exactly just what they've said.

Then again, it's not like those parents have something interesting to say about their children to begin with. Perhaps it's the fact that they don't want their kids to go to school, not because they can do a better job at educating their children, but for an entirely different reason.
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Posted 9/9/09

Cuddlebuns wrote:


JJT2

but what is brainwashing? how does it differ from any taught belief? it IS a learned behavior like any other. i have made a thread discussing this entire myth called brainwashing- its in the extended discussion- check it out. peace over war


The difference between teaching an brainwashing is that people who are taught are usually open to new ideas and respectful of different ideas, while those who are brainwashed tend to think that they know everything and that anyone who does agree with them doesn't know anything.


"usually open to new ideas "

and what is it called if they r not open? brainwashing?

"while those who are brainwashed tend to think that they know everything and that anyone who does agree with them doesn't know anything"

like most businesses, highschools, political beliefs and religions? advertisenments? scientific theories? crunchyroll its self? with all its bright colors...trying to make us picture this site when ever we see orange so it can make money...
where does the line between learning and brainwashing begin and end?

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Posted 9/9/09

JJT2

"usually open to new ideas "

and what is it called if they r not open? brainwashing?


They would be considered close-minded, which is usually a result of brainwashing.


"while those who are brainwashed tend to think that they know everything and that anyone who does agree with them doesn't know anything"

like most businesses, highschools, political beliefs and religions? advertisenments? scientific theories?


People who brainwash expect and make sure that you accept the information they give you. In most cases, the things you list it only present the information and give you the option to reject or accept it.



crunchyroll its self? with all its bright colors...trying to make us picture this site when ever we see orange so it can make money...


I doubt that that is shinji's intent. Anyone who associates this site with the color orange is either extremely feeble-minded or spends way too much time here, or both.



where does the line between learning and brainwashing begin and end?


When you learn, you accept knowledge willingly. When you're brainwashed, you're forced to accept knowledge. It's a pretty clear-cut line.



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Posted 9/9/09

Cuddlebuns wrote:


JJT2

"usually open to new ideas "

and what is it called if they r not open? brainwashing?


They would be considered close-minded, which is usually a result of brainwashing.


"while those who are brainwashed tend to think that they know everything and that anyone who does agree with them doesn't know anything"

like most businesses, highschools, political beliefs and religions? advertisenments? scientific theories?


People who brainwash expect and make sure that you accept the information they give you. In most cases, the things you list it only present the information and give you the option to reject or accept it.



crunchyroll its self? with all its bright colors...trying to make us picture this site when ever we see orange so it can make money...


I doubt that that is shinji's intent. Anyone who associates this site with the color orange is either extremely feeble-minded or spends way too much time here, or both.



where does the line between learning and brainwashing begin and end?


When you learn, you accept knowledge willingly. When you're brainwashed, you're forced to accept knowledge. It's a pretty clear-cut line.





http://www.cracked.com/article_16656_p2.html

really clear cut huh? i agree...either brainwaqshing doesnt exists, or every type of learning is brainwashing. how do u define "forced"?

chants?, slogans? advertisenments? Is there really a choice in the matter? or do we simply believe we have a choice?

peace over war
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Posted 9/9/09


That's interesting, those are all things that I've noticed since they don't really affect me (except tits), but I never thought that most mentally stable people really bought into that stuff.


really clear cut huh? i agree...either brainwaqshing doesnt exists, or every type of learning is brainwashing. how do u define "forced"?


So you consider obtaining any kind of new information to be brainwashing? If I don't know the square root of 7, and find out by putting it in a calculator, did the calculator just brainwash me?

It's pretty obvious when force is being used to indoctrinate an idea. There's always some kind of consequence if you don't accept the information, like exile, beating, execution, etc.


chants?, slogans? advertisenments? Is there really a choice in the matter? or do we simply believe we have a choice?


I think that goes into an entirely different realm of thinking and philosophy. Did I really choose to get out of bed this morning? Did I really choose to make this post? Or are the aliens beaming signals into my head and making me do all of this?


peace over war


Stop brainwashing me.
Posted 9/9/09

Cuddlebuns wrote:

peace over war


Stop brainwashing me.
I'll take this moment and demonstrate how different ideas can not simply coexist, but benefit each other just by presenting the same subject from different points of views. And together they cab all work on benefiting mankind through expanding our understanding of our world.

You seem to be rather funded with the phrase "peace over war", but what's peace without war, and vice versos? Can there be peace without war, or war without peace? Therefore can one be better than the other, when there's on way one can simply exist without the other instead?

And by doing so, I've became neither brainwashed not educated, when I'm simply enlighten.
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Posted 9/9/09

Cuddlebuns wrote:



That's interesting, those are all things that I've noticed since they don't really affect me (except tits), but I never thought that most mentally stable people really bought into that stuff.


really clear cut huh? i agree...either brainwaqshing doesnt exists, or every type of learning is brainwashing. how do u define "forced"?


So you consider obtaining any kind of new information to be brainwashing? If I don't know the square root of 7, and find out by putting it in a calculator, did the calculator just brainwash me?

It's pretty obvious when force is being used to indoctrinate an idea. There's always some kind of consequence if you don't accept the information, like exile, beating, execution, etc.


chants?, slogans? advertisenments? Is there really a choice in the matter? or do we simply believe we have a choice?


I think that goes into an entirely different realm of thinking and philosophy. Did I really choose to get out of bed this morning? Did I really choose to make this post? Or are the aliens beaming signals into my head and making me do all of this?


peace over war


Stop brainwashing me.


That's interesting, those are all things that I've noticed since they don't really affect me (except tits), but I never thought that most mentally stable people really bought into that stuff.

then how do u explain america's comsumer culture? supply and demand? competition between businesses? OR will u argue most americans are not mentally stable?

I think that goes into an entirely different realm of thinking and philosophy. Did I really choose to get out of bed this morning? Did I really choose to make this post? Or are the aliens beaming signals into my head and making me do all of this?

we dont have to take it to that extreme. if i dont buy into the democratic or republican mess, what is my punishment?
society has one, maybe im alienated, or judged as wasting my vote.

what if i dont buy into politics at all? my punishment is that society blames me for holding back america, wasting everyone else's vote, being a jerk as some teachers would call it.
Who should i vote for then? "This guy!" or "that guy!". If i vote for "This" guy, im an enemy of "That" guy and all of his faithful followers.
Is there no end to the judgenment and prosecution of my choices? every choice breeds a consequence- both a negative one and a positive one. All the negative consquences are punishnments! that is force to get me to think a certain way.

propaganda works the same way. If i dont stand up and say the pledge of aleagance, im called a bad american. So they "force" me through my so called "guilt". If i dont learn or believe what the highschool says, my parents punish me, or society judges me and calls me a drop out-hurting my feelings. more punishment. Is that not force?

heavy influence IS force.Advertisenments do the same thng by playing with my mind, twisting statistics, making false alegations seem true.They know the science of the phyche. They know how my brain works. Ever heard of subliminal advertisenment? hyponosis? its force, just subtle force that i cant notice. If i get hungry, what do i eat? who controls my impulese to crave certain foods? there are some foods i have never tasted, why is that? Why do i speak english? why didnt i get to chose my first language?

why am i here? why am i alive? who chooses that? who asked those quesions? why am i asking them?

Stop brainwashing me

so your finally starting to get it...peace over war
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Posted 9/9/09
I think it's stupid to keep kids home from school to avoid a 20 minute speech. They should have let kids hear Obama out, and besides they're just kids. Kids do not have the power to change an adult's mind, especially if the adult is very adamant about it. People need to grow up and stop teaching their kids ignorance.
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Posted 9/9/09

Shamela24 wrote:

I think it's stupid to keep kids home from school to avoid a 20 minute speech. They should have let kids hear Obama out, and besides they're just kids. Kids do not have the power to change an adult's mind, especially if the adult is very adamant about it. People need to grow up and stop teaching their kids ignorance.


? how do u teach ignorance? thas a double paradox...peace over war
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Posted 9/9/09

JJT2

That's interesting, those are all things that I've noticed since they don't really affect me (except tits), but I never thought that most mentally stable people really bought into that stuff.

then how do u explain america's comsumer culture? supply and demand? competition between businesses?


That's all just a result of capitalism and wealth. Even though we are a part of it, not everyone agrees with it, and we still have the option and the ability to escape it by moving to a different country.



OR will u argue most americans are not mentally stable?


Not mentally unstable, but rather mentally feeble, as most humans are.


I think that goes into an entirely different realm of thinking and philosophy. Did I really choose to get out of bed this morning? Did I really choose to make this post? Or are the aliens beaming signals into my head and making me do all of this?

we dont have to take it to that extreme. if i dont buy into the democratic or republican mess, what is my punishment?
society has one, maybe im alienated, or judged as wasting my vote.

what if i dont buy into politics at all? my punishment is that society blames me for holding back america, wasting everyone else's vote, being a jerk as some teachers would call it.
Who should i vote for then? "This guy!" or "that guy!". If i vote for "This" guy, im an enemy of "That" guy and all of his faithful followers.
Is there no end to the judgenment and prosecution of my choices? every choice breeds a consequence- both a negative one and a positive one. All the negative consquences are punishnments! that is force to get me to think a certain way.


I wouldn't consider judgement from others to be a punishment. It is easy to resist, unless of course you are extremely insecure and easily swayed by popular opinion (i.e mentally feeble).


propaganda works the same way. If i dont stand up and say the pledge of aleagance, im called a bad american. So they "force" me through my so called "guilt". If i dont learn or believe what the highschool says, my parents punish me, or society judges me and calls me a drop out-hurting my feelings. more punishment. Is that not force?


No, because you have the ability to resist and overcome their judgments, or at least I would like to believe that you have that ability. If not then it is more rare than I thought.


heavy influence IS force.Advertisenments do the same thng by playing with my mind, twisting statistics, making false alegations seem true.


But you still have the ability to do research and find out for yourself if what they are telling you is true. Unfortunately, people are lazy and just blindly accept or reject anything they hear, depending on whether it agrees with their previously established notions.


They know the science of the phyche. They know how my brain works. Ever heard of subliminal advertisenment? hyponosis? its force, just subtle force that i cant notice.


That kind of stuff can only be considered "force" if it is inflicted upon a feeble mind that is unable to resist or ignore it.




If i get hungry, what do i eat? who controls my impulese to crave certain foods? there are some foods i have never tasted, why is that? Why do i speak english? why didnt i get to chose my first language?


Those are a result of your culture. Culture is a force that manipulates our minds, but there is no conscious being behind driving culture. It cannot brainwash because it cannot have the intent to do so due to it's lack of sentience. It simply occurs, just like lightning can't commit murder because it does not intend to kill, it just happens.



why am i here? why am i alive?

Because your parents were horny.


who chooses that?

On one hand, your parents made the decision to bring you to life. On the other hand, you have the ability to choose and create your own reason for living.



Stop brainwashing me

so your finally starting to get it...peace over war


Not really, I was just joking. Even though I now associate that phrase with your username, I never previously associated it with anything, nor did I previously associate your username with anything. So you haven't washed my brain, just added something new to it.

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Posted 9/10/09

Cuddlebuns wrote:


JJT2

That's interesting, those are all things that I've noticed since they don't really affect me (except tits), but I never thought that most mentally stable people really bought into that stuff.

then how do u explain america's comsumer culture? supply and demand? competition between businesses?


That's all just a result of capitalism and wealth. Even though we are a part of it, not everyone agrees with it, and we still have the option and the ability to escape it by moving to a different country.



OR will u argue most americans are not mentally stable?


Not mentally unstable, but rather mentally feeble, as most humans are.


I think that goes into an entirely different realm of thinking and philosophy. Did I really choose to get out of bed this morning? Did I really choose to make this post? Or are the aliens beaming signals into my head and making me do all of this?

we dont have to take it to that extreme. if i dont buy into the democratic or republican mess, what is my punishment?
society has one, maybe im alienated, or judged as wasting my vote.

what if i dont buy into politics at all? my punishment is that society blames me for holding back america, wasting everyone else's vote, being a jerk as some teachers would call it.
Who should i vote for then? "This guy!" or "that guy!". If i vote for "This" guy, im an enemy of "That" guy and all of his faithful followers.
Is there no end to the judgenment and prosecution of my choices? every choice breeds a consequence- both a negative one and a positive one. All the negative consquences are punishnments! that is force to get me to think a certain way.


I wouldn't consider judgement from others to be a punishment. It is easy to resist, unless of course you are extremely insecure and easily swayed by popular opinion (i.e mentally feeble).


propaganda works the same way. If i dont stand up and say the pledge of aleagance, im called a bad american. So they "force" me through my so called "guilt". If i dont learn or believe what the highschool says, my parents punish me, or society judges me and calls me a drop out-hurting my feelings. more punishment. Is that not force?


No, because you have the ability to resist and overcome their judgments, or at least I would like to believe that you have that ability. If not then it is more rare than I thought.


heavy influence IS force.Advertisenments do the same thng by playing with my mind, twisting statistics, making false alegations seem true.


But you still have the ability to do research and find out for yourself if what they are telling you is true. Unfortunately, people are lazy and just blindly accept or reject anything they hear, depending on whether it agrees with their previously established notions.


They know the science of the phyche. They know how my brain works. Ever heard of subliminal advertisenment? hyponosis? its force, just subtle force that i cant notice.


That kind of stuff can only be considered "force" if it is inflicted upon a feeble mind that is unable to resist or ignore it.




If i get hungry, what do i eat? who controls my impulese to crave certain foods? there are some foods i have never tasted, why is that? Why do i speak english? why didnt i get to chose my first language?


Those are a result of your culture. Culture is a force that manipulates our minds, but there is no conscious being behind driving culture. It cannot brainwash because it cannot have the intent to do so due to it's lack of sentience. It simply occurs, just like lightning can't commit murder because it does not intend to kill, it just happens.



why am i here? why am i alive?

Because your parents were horny.


who chooses that?

On one hand, your parents made the decision to bring you to life. On the other hand, you have the ability to choose and create your own reason for living.



Stop brainwashing me

so your finally starting to get it...peace over war


Not really, I was just joking. Even though I now associate that phrase with your username, I never previously associated it with anything, nor did I previously associate your username with anything. So you haven't washed my brain, just added something new to it.



Based on what u have stated...

"Not mentally unstable, but rather mentally feeble, as most humans are."
"Unfortunately, people are lazy and just blindly accept or reject anything they hear, depending on whether it agrees with their previously established notions"
"at least I would like to believe that you have that ability. If not then it is more rare than I thought."
"That kind of stuff can only be considered "force" if it is inflicted upon a feeble mind that is unable to resist or ignore it"

so if most humans have feeble minds, then that stuff could be considered force. Since resistence is rare, people "blindly accept or reject anything they hear"
therefore i was right all along, you truly do get it peace over war

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Posted 9/10/09

JJT2

Based on what u have stated...

"Not mentally unstable, but rather mentally feeble, as most humans are."
"Unfortunately, people are lazy and just blindly accept or reject anything they hear, depending on whether it agrees with their previously established notions"
"at least I would like to believe that you have that ability. If not then it is more rare than I thought."
"That kind of stuff can only be considered "force" if it is inflicted upon a feeble mind that is unable to resist or ignore it"

so if most humans have feeble minds, then that stuff could be considered force. Since resistence is rare, people "blindly accept or reject anything they hear"
therefore i was right all along, you truly do get it peace over war



I still don't get how receiving new information (learning) is the same as having old information erased and replaced with something else (brainwashing). But I guess since "brainwashing" doesn't have an official definition then you can slap that label on it.
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Posted 9/10/09

Cuddlebuns wrote:


JJT2

Based on what u have stated...

"Not mentally unstable, but rather mentally feeble, as most humans are."
"Unfortunately, people are lazy and just blindly accept or reject anything they hear, depending on whether it agrees with their previously established notions"
"at least I would like to believe that you have that ability. If not then it is more rare than I thought."
"That kind of stuff can only be considered "force" if it is inflicted upon a feeble mind that is unable to resist or ignore it"

so if most humans have feeble minds, then that stuff could be considered force. Since resistence is rare, people "blindly accept or reject anything they hear"
therefore i was right all along, you truly do get it peace over war



I still don't get how receiving new information (learning) is the same as having old information erased and replaced with something else (brainwashing). But I guess since "brainwashing" doesn't have an official definition then you can slap that label on it.


when ever the brain processes new information, old information has to be erased. Thats why its called short term memory.Even long term memory fades with time. Can you remember every second of your life from birth? probably not. that information was let go to make room for more important information...of course this is all in thoery...we havnt studied the phyche or the brain long enough to make any major assumptions peace over war
Posted 9/10/09

JJT2 wrote:when ever the brain processes new information, old information has to be erased. Thats why its called short term memory.Even long term memory fades with time. Can you remember every second of your life from birth? probably not. that information was let go to make room for more important information...of course this is all in thoery...we havnt studied the phyche or the brain long enough to make any major assumptions peace over war
Then would you consider those who suffer from memory lost, aka amnesia, as the same as being "brainwashed"?

And if you want a definition of "brainwashing", then try this on; "brainwashing" is a mental conditioning that will result in a person consciously respond to a certain emotional situation without fail. The person didn't react to the situation unconsciously like emotional outburst or post hypnotic suggestions, nor did he made a cognitive thinking(http://www.learningrx.com/define-cognitive-thinking-faq.htm) by ways of processing any outside information. In other words, it's a way to program a person's emotional behavior, through constant exposure of the same behaviorism itself within the same emotional state. Not learning.

And no, the fact that kids learn better when they're having fun isn't "brainwashing". When cognitive thinking is a skill, and kids simply respond to obtaining new skill like learning with enthusiasm and optimism. It's the same as kids running fast make them happy, because they've obtained the skill of running fast. Thereby they're being empowered with a lifesaving skill. However, "brainwashing" doesn't give children the same feeling as empowerment does. When "brainwashing" children would require them to be in a certain emotional state to begin with the mental conditioning. Much like positive reinforcement of good behaviors in a workplace through a reward system.
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Posted 9/10/09

JJT2 wrote:


Shamela24 wrote:

I think it's stupid to keep kids home from school to avoid a 20 minute speech. They should have let kids hear Obama out, and besides they're just kids. Kids do not have the power to change an adult's mind, especially if the adult is very adamant about it. People need to grow up and stop teaching their kids ignorance.


? how do u teach ignorance? thas a double paradox...peace over war


Kids don't just learn from books, they also learn from watching what their parents say and do. So if the parent do things that's ignorant, then the kid will start to do ignorant things too.
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