First  Prev  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9  10  11  12  13  14  15  Next  Last
Iran’s Nuclear Ambition
10452 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
24 / M
Offline
Posted 9/30/09 , edited 9/30/09


Well, you have proven your ability to copy and paste sections of other articles, but you’re avoiding my questions and also taking two contradicting approaches. The first approach is that Iran isn’t trying to prepare nuclear weaponry even though the IAEA expects they are. The second approach is that Iran has a right to make nuclear weapons because Israel and the United States are a threat to Iran.

So I’ll repeat myself. If Iran is not planning to produce nuclear weapons then why:

Why are they enriching uranium on a scope appropriate for nuclear weapons? After all, if they want power wouldn’t they be enriching uranium on a scope appropriate for power?
Why are they simultaneously designing missiles to carry nuclear war-heads?
Why were they hiding the second nuclear facility from the United Nations?
Why are they test firing missiles designed to hit Israel?
Why are they refusing to allow immediate and unfettered inspection of their facility? I mean, if they’re not violating any agreements or doing anything illegal as you say then what do they have to hide?

Well, I think that when you consider that their president has already announced that he would bomb Tel Aviv if given a good opening, and that he is divinely appointed to wipe Israel off the map the honest and objective answer is pretty simple. That is, they ARE trying to make nuclear weapons.



Also it has been stated that Iran would allows inspection from IAEA officer to check the new plant.


That’s actually mostly true, but not entirely because it omits the fact that Ali Akbar Salehi also said that they would only be allowed to inspect the facilities when and how he says.

The question of rather or not Iran has the legal right to produce nuclear weapons is another issue, and the answer is no. They signed those rights away of their own volition. Does Israel have a right to produce nuclear weapons? Yes, they do, because Israel refused to sign the NPT.


I could say same things to Pakistan, India and Israel. Those countries are not signed Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons (NPT) including North Korea. Why the nations of the world not put any sanctions to those 3 countries while they're not even sign the treaty.


You answered your very own question. Those nations did not sign the treaty; therefore, they’re not obliged to uphold the treaty. You cannot punish somebody for violating a contract they never signed. Iran signed away its right to produce nuclear weapons and now it’s violating that promise.



As we know Pakistan has its own terrorist, they have more dangerous conditions for having nuclear (feared would be used by terrorist) and its bad relation to India which also having Nuclear in their military. Why UN, EU, USA are not concerned about those 2 relationship which could lead to Nuclear War between Pakistan and India?


You don’t know what you’re talking about because the UN, EU, and USA all expressed concern whenever Pakistan and India began their little nuclear arms race. It invoked international criticism.



The Iranian president can say whatever he wants, but if his actions don’t match up then why should we believe him? Israel’s never openly admitted to its stockpile of nuclear weapons, but we all know that Israel has them.


10652 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
18 / F / Indonesia Raya
Offline
Posted 9/30/09

SeraphAlford wrote:

Well, you have proven your ability to copy and paste sections of other articles, but you’re avoiding my questions and also taking two contradicting approaches. The first approach is that Iran isn’t trying to prepare nuclear weaponry even though the IAEA expects they are. The second approach is that Iran has a right to make nuclear weapons because Israel and the United States are a threat to Iran.


Because in extended discussion, we need material from many sources to proven our opinions. If you just merely talk on their own behalf without any references, we could hardly accept what they said. Also, it could open our understanding to our discussion friends, like NPT ODA, etc. That actually need to be discussed in certain topics. Especially in actual issues like International Politics. Is that not okay for you, I try not to do that often.

IAEA did not said, or even expect Iran making nuclear weapon. El Baradei, the head of IAEA has stated many times that Iran already met terms & conditions to produce Nuclear Energy from years and years ago. Maybe it's just me, I smell politics about the changing of IAEA current head which is Japanese now. As we know, El Baradei as he stated.....

Dr. Mohamed ElBaradei, Director General of the International Atomic Energy Agency, a rare man of principle who has not sold his integrity to the US and Israeli governments, refuted in his report (September 7, 2009) the baseless "accusations that information has been withheld from the Board of Governors about Iran’s nuclear programme. I am dismayed by the allegations of some Member states, which have been fed to the media, that information has been withheld from the Board. These allegations are politically motivated and totally baseless. Such attempts to influence the work of the Secretariat and undermine its independence and objectivity are in violation of Article VII.F. of the IAEA Statute and should cease forthwith.". Now he's already been changed by Japanese, Yukia Amano. So.... I think IAEA would contradicts its action to the previous IAEA which under El Baradei.

Not quite, Iran stated many times that Nuclear Arms era should be ended right away. As it is inhuman and making the earth rotten by its plutonium. Most Iranians want their country to have the capacity to enrich uranium for nuclear energy, but a majority also agrees that Iran should comply with the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT), which forbids signatories from developing nuclear weapons.



SeraphAlford wrote:
So I’ll repeat myself. If Iran is not planning to produce nuclear weapons then why:

Why are they enriching uranium on a scope appropriate for nuclear weapons? After all, if they want power wouldn’t they be enriching uranium on a scope appropriate for power?
Why are they simultaneously designing missiles to carry nuclear war-heads?
Why were they hiding the second nuclear facility from the United Nations?
Why are they test firing missiles designed to hit Israel?
Why are they refusing to allow immediate and unfettered inspection of their facility? I mean, if they’re not violating any agreements or doing anything illegal as you say then what do they have to hide?

Well, I think that when you consider that their president has already announced that he would bomb Tel Aviv if given a good opening, and that he is divinely appointed to wipe Israel off the map the honest and objective answer is pretty simple. That is, they ARE trying to make nuclear weapons.


It's just like you said "As far as Israel threatening Iran, both nations have tossed aggressive words back and forward. "
If you recall a year ago, Israel military planes took exercise to flied to Athens, Greek. Approximately same distance to Tehran, Iran. In order to preparing attacking Iran. Israel even admitted they were exercised for preparing war to Iran.

So, as a leader's country. For a sake's of country. For its people's sake within country. What Iranian leaders should do? Do they should just sit down and see how things going? While their neighbor's situations are in misery for had such experience, that's it being occupied by foreign country who just merely accused them for having 'Biological Weapon'. Same old, same old. The purpose is to abolish imaginary threat created by their paranoia. And for oil, of course. Shouldn't deny that fact too.

As their statement to not having Nuclear arms and cooperation to IAEA for years (Unlike Israel, which world widely believed having such weapon) made me believe they actually use same strategy like they used in Holocaust. I think, they also accepted Holocaust as true events that actually happened as we, muslims around the world also accept Holocaust as inhuman tragedy and sad because innocent Jews being murdered and killed by certain mustache person.

If you and those leaders noticed, Iran has been using Psychological Warfare to maintain its influence and security for the sake of Iranian people. Denying Holocaust and test firing missiles designed to hit Israel are pretty much Psychological Warfare, which is common in higher state of foreign relation of countries. I laughed when Israel president brought a list and teary story about the victims of Holocaust, I mean mustache person. He doesn't understand behind the meaning of Iran's statement. You could see his video of interview in US by Larry King, Democracy Now and many interview when they asked about Holocaust. I mean, of course we are sad of Jews being murdered blindly but is that a reason to occupying Gaza and abusing Palestinian people? Israel are not even the real Jews we admired.



SeraphAlford wrote:

That’s actually mostly true, but not entirely because it omits the fact that Ali Akbar Salehi also said that they would only be allowed to inspect the facilities when and how he says.

The question of rather or not Iran has the legal right to produce nuclear weapons is another issue, and the answer is no. They signed those rights away of their own volition. Does Israel have a right to produce nuclear weapons? Yes, they do, because Israel refused to sign the NPT.

You answered your very own question. Those nations did not sign the treaty; therefore, they’re not obliged to uphold the treaty. You cannot punish somebody for violating a contract they never signed. Iran signed away its right to produce nuclear weapons and now it’s violating that promise.


lol wut..... the NPT created because of non-proliferation, disarmament, and the right to peacefully use nuclear technology rules that has to be followed by its member. By not signing the NPT, they abused the international treaty and not cooperate with international laws as they possessed Nuclear weapon. Israel, India and Pakistan should be put sanctions instead for not reach the agreement.

As the NPT says "Five states are recognized by the NPT as nuclear weapon states (NWS): China, France, Russian, the UK and the US
Therefore, NNWS parties to the NPT agree not to "receive," "manufacture" or "acquire" nuclear weapons or to "seek or receive any assistance in the manufacture of nuclear weapons" NNWS parties also agree to accept safeguards by the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) to verify that they are not diverting nuclear energy from peaceful uses to nuclear weapons or other nuclear explosive devices. That makes Iran not violated NPT unlike Israel.

those who possesed Nuclear Weapon must sign the treaty in order to accept safeguards by IAEA and to be clarified as a peaceful country. Very contradict with Pakistan, India and Israel which are in the war zone between their own neighbor. It's also funny that US was the one who given Nuclear technology to Pakistan, knowing they are in war with terrorist and having bad relations with India, not signed the treaty and also can be a threat to the world like North Korea.

I think you should read all 3 pillars of NPT for further discussion.


SeraphAlford wrote:

You don’t know what you’re talking about because the UN, EU, and USA all expressed concern whenever Pakistan and India began their little nuclear arms race. It invoked international criticism.


It's only in agenda, the practice? They could even care less about it. US given Nnuclear to Pakistan so they could destroy themselves by nuke terrorist which are actually their own people who oppose official authority(government) which actually being said as Western Puppet.


SeraphAlford wrote:

The Iranian president can say whatever he wants, but if his actions don’t match up then why should we believe him? Israel’s never openly admitted to its stockpile of nuclear weapons, but we all know that Israel has them.


Physiological Warfare is one of politician toy, either in State, Parliament or in foreign relations. It is common sight we always seen. Remember Biological Weapon? Know so-called 'Axis of Evil'? Even Hugo Chavez made a joke in UN previous meeting when he said "Now we have fresher air here" (Referring to Bush which is being called Devil itself) and made UN members chuckled when he says it. When you already in politics area, you will know further about weaponry in politics. Propaganda, accusing are common.

However, Iran had been cooperate with IAEA, undeniable fact. We all know, unlike Israel.

4053 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
M / Yo Mommas House
Offline
Posted 9/30/09 , edited 9/30/09
Ron Paul on this issue. He says Iran already reported this to the IEIA and Obama was already briefed on this issue. He says the same thing I am saying and many others are saying about this warmongering hysteria going on in the USA about Iran. Man I just wish we had more sane patriotic congressmen like Ron Paul. I will post more but I read from many sources and watch many videos of people coming out saying this facility was never a secret.

http://www.infowars.com/ron-paul-talks-about-iran/ (Ron Paul stating we already knew)
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125392005480142473.html?mod=WSJ_hpp_MIDDLENexttoWhatsNewsTop (Wallstreet Journal USA already knew about it for years and states the US were planning to use the revelation to spur their call for “crippling” sactions when they discovered that Iran had already told the IAEA, as required.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/09/25/AR2009092500289.html?hpid%3Dtopnews&sub=AR (Washington Post states we knew already knew about it since 2007..)

There is many many more but one has to question if we already knew about this then why are we propping this up to be something evil? Iran already reported this site to the IEIA Iran broke no rules, still zero proof of weapon developments. As Ryu states many of these claims against Iran is just flat out baseless based on made up accusations. Notice how our media is reacting to this whenever Iran is mention to make their country look bad they always refer to his comment which was misquoted and I dismantled it already ,"Israel being wiped off the map." Which is now false because wipe and map was never used. The Iran elections which our politicians claim it was rigged with zero proof. Now this nuclear facility which Iran was supposedly trying to hide to create nuclear weapons with zero proof. Iran tells the IEIA they can come inspect it. I mean really with the facts here what can anyone argue because all I see is baseless claims made out of thin air with no solid proof. As Americans we have to understand Israel interests shouldnt override Americans interests. Israels problems should not be American problems the sooner we get this through our heads the better our country would be.
20924 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
20 / M / Singapore
Offline
Posted 10/1/09
Iran has recently call in UN inspectors to the site. Okay that is acceptable, but whats with the West keep on hitting on them?

Scientist Moderator
digs 
38031 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
24 / M
Online
Posted 10/1/09 , edited 10/1/09
Actually, Iran has lied about the nuclear site for years. They built it underground and said it never existed. At the summit in Geneva Iran refused to discuss their nuclear program... They have enough uranium to make a weapon, and the government is crazy enough to launch one off at Israel (Or sell one to other crazy Middle Eastern nations who would do the same). A nuclear Iran is a bad thing. Look at what happened during the election... the protests and the human rights violations. They even execute children and commit other horrible atrocities. A nation like this can't have nukes and imo should be overthrown. It's dangerous. Even if they agree to allow visits who is to say they aren't hiding things? They hid this facility and are enriching enough uranium for warheads... the president says he wants to destroy Israel and the country violates human rights on so many levels. Iran just can't be trusted.
1718 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
63 / M / Croatia
Offline
Posted 10/1/09
They, and any other country have every right to arm themselves, especially when they are openly threatened by Israel. I just dont know why people here think that some nations have right to nuclear weapons and some dont. There are always idiots and great people ruling one nation, I mean, who can guarantee that next Russian or US president wont be some crazy maniac who will push the good old red button? People are concerned about Islamic nations, but the whole world suffered more because of depression caused by US, then they suffer by any terrorist attack. So, what is the greater threat here to the whole world? And, if we are talking about rights, what right do I to defend against that threat?
if the US want to attack Iran, they will do it, nuclear weapons or not, they will use any pretext they wont. But, they dont have money or men to pull off another war. And yes, I think, due to the recent events, that Pakistan is the greatest threat considering nuclear weapons, because they already have it, and most of the talibans escaped there, and they took control of great number of small villages. They are fighting against pakistan regular army, but it is problem, since they fear if they pull off too much troops from Indian border, India may attack, and then who knows what will happen. It is non - stop war there since they gained their independence.
Btw - why is there always problem with muslim nations?
Scientist Moderator
digs 
38031 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
24 / M
Online
Posted 10/1/09
Iran isn't threatened by Israel, they aren't the ones screaming for a Persian genocide saying that they need to whipe Iran of the map... Israel is threatened by Iran, and Iran is crazy. Not all nations seek nukes for self defense, but for genocide and as a political playing chip. The Iranian government is evil.

There isn't always problems with Muslim nations, there are generally no problems with Turkey and Malaysia (among others). The problem lies within mainly Middle Eastern countries that violate human rights, religious rights, and have racist beliefs towards the Jews. It's part of the Arab-Israeli conflict. How soon have we forgotten what happened in Iran during their elections and the abuse of people who opposed Ahmedinejad. Iran has already proven to be led by insane leaders, they have no rights to nuclear weapons, especially when they believe that they are appointed by Allah to kill the Jews.
Posted 10/1/09 , edited 10/1/09

Ryutai-Desk wrote:

DomFortress wrote:
I think at this point we should look at the big picture of nuclear weapon strategy on a global scale. When the world going into a nuclear war is a serious possibility with developing nations arming themselves with nuclear weapons. We should be thinking about their own individual reasons for them obtaining nuclear war capabilities. And disarm the situation by resolving their strategies and reasoning. Otherwise it's going to be missile defense talk once again, only this time is the developed nations against developing nations.


About missile defense is all about paranoia from US and EU also it's about politic for Russia. Same goes to Iran's Nuclear, Biological Weapon and Axis of Evil which is laughable.

Having Nuclear weapon is like having a newest toy. Children(Nations of Europe and US) showing and bragging to their friends that they can afford such expensive toy. While certain kid(Iran) also can buy the toy, they don't like it. And they bully(sanctions) and trying to get the kid's toy. However, because the kid has backup from another strong kids(China & Russia). They can't merely get the toy. Knowing this, the children who trying to get the toy, offered an unspoken promise.

The children apparently had stepping(Missile Defense) into the kid's territory and saying they won't go to their(Russia) territory because they want to focused more on the kid's friend. Glad knowing the children will not causing trouble to their territory, the kid(Russia) speak to his friend(Iran) to give up his toy(Nuclear). What we should questioning is the interest of certain nations to their relationship of others which could divert their individual reasons.

I'll be honest here that I think treating genocidal weaponry like nuclear missiles as mere toy is a big mistake on your part.

I've been studying weapons as a childhood hobby of mine, because I find their existence to be an extraordinary concept both practically and philosophically. In a sense that the advance of weapon technology doesn't benefit human living condition directly, when even the standard conventional weaponry such as firearms had but one design purpose in mind; to kill.

The progress of genocidal weaponry advancement, is the human emotion of cruelty disguised itself behind logic. Subjectively speaking a nuclear missile annihilates everything within its affective range, while the heat and shock wave are byproducts of spontaneous nuclear fission. However unlike conventional weaponry that can leave bullet holes, or tactical weaponry that can destroy structures, genocidal weaponry are capable of causing long-lasting chain reactions on an environmental scale.

My people perfected the Art of War, which is why Sun Tzu preferred confrontations of wits and diplomacy rather than all-out wars. When our Chinese history of wars was the end of a dynasty's own diplomacy. In other words, we can rebuild just as often as we can destroy, when genocide was out of the question. In fact, the Chinese people had only been rebelling against acts of cruelty throughout our history. Nothing political, religious, economical, nor factional. We don't care who our emperor is, if we felt our lives had been cruel to us, and the emperor was responsible of our misery. We'll be soon painting the Forbidden Palace with his blood for the next emperor. Not to mention is the fact that Chinese nuclear weapon capability was the result of diplomacy with the former USSR back in the 1950's, not bragging rights: http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/china/nuke/index.html

Therefore today's UN nuclear weapon policy is a diplomatic statement of "I'll be developing nuclear weapons now, and this is what I won't be doing with them: acts of cruelty." And as long as the current Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is responsible of acts of cruelty(http://www.iranhumanrights.org/2009/09/mobilebillboard/), I personally think Iran shouldn't have nuclear weapon capability.
10652 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
18 / F / Indonesia Raya
Offline
Posted 10/1/09

digs wrote:

Actually, Iran has lied about the nuclear site for years. They built it underground and said it never existed. At the summit in Geneva Iran refused to discuss their nuclear program... They have enough uranium to make a weapon, and the government is crazy enough to launch one off at Israel (Or sell one to other crazy Middle Eastern nations who would do the same). A nuclear Iran is a bad thing. Look at what happened during the election... the protests and the human rights violations. They even execute children and commit other horrible atrocities. A nation like this can't have nukes and imo should be overthrown. It's dangerous. Even if they agree to allow visits who is to say they aren't hiding things? They hid this facility and are enriching enough uranium for warheads... the president says he wants to destroy Israel and the country violates human rights on so many levels. Iran just can't be trusted.


Should read the first page...
I could say same things to Pakistan, India and Israel. Those countries are not signed Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons (NPT) including North Korea. Why the nations of the world not put any sanctions to those 3 countries while they're not even sign the treaty?

As we know Pakistan has its own terrorist, they have more dangerous conditions for having nuclear (feared would be used by terrorist) and its bad relation to India which also having Nuclear in their military. Why UN, EU, USA are not concerned about those 2 relationship which could lead to Nuclear War between Pakistan and India?

Under the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT), a signatory state has the right to enrich uranium to be used as fuel for civil nuclear power. Such states have to remain under inspection from the IAEA. Iran is under such inspection. Iran says it is simply doing what it is allowed to do under the treaty and intends only to enrich to the level needed for nuclear power station fuel. It blames the Security Council resolutions on political pressure from the US and its allies.

On 18 September 2009, President Ahmadinejad told NBC News: "We don't need nuclear weapons... it's not a part of our programmes and plans."

He said that nuclear-armed states should themselves give up their nuclear weapons.
Shortly afterwards Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei, who is reported to have issued a fatwa(rules by Sharia(Islamic Laws)) some time ago against nuclear weapons said: "We fundamentally reject nuclear weapons."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_Non-Proliferation_Treaty

How about China and Russia? Do you think they are not responsibleof what happened in recent years? About Tibet, Uighur, Georgia, Ukraina.... etc? IN my opinion, every countries violated the human rights, to their own people because of power and politics. However, those countries are not as extreme as America who violated another country's right. Invading and occupy other country in modern history just because the accusation of 'Biological Weapon'? A joke that has caused millions of lives.....


digs wrote:

Iran isn't threatened by Israel, they aren't the ones screaming for a Persian genocide saying that they need to whipe Iran of the map... Israel is threatened by Iran, and Iran is crazy. Not all nations seek nukes for self defense, but for genocide and as a political playing chip. The Iranian government is evil.

There isn't always problems with Muslim nations, there are generally no problems with Turkey and Malaysia (among others). The problem lies within mainly Middle Eastern countries that violate human rights, religious rights, and have racist beliefs towards the Jews. It's part of the Arab-Israeli conflict. How soon have we forgotten what happened in Iran during their elections and the abuse of people who opposed Ahmedinejad. Iran has already proven to be led by insane leaders, they have no rights to nuclear weapons, especially when they believe that they are appointed by Allah to kill the Jews.


Don't forget about Indonesia too, we are the most populous muslims in the world and we've conducted democracy in our system. The clean one, if you ask me. The current president is great.
I'm afraid you are one of those Americans.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuKMtLOKG8k&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uaRJ8FqOI4k&feature=related

You do know the propaganda that often used by CNN and Fox News correct? Or you're not even bothered with it? Those media what mostly Americans used for their basic understanding without seeing the truth, let alone go the the war zone itself.

This video is good for our education, for our future, and our mindset
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itTnaBixWMQ&feature=related






10652 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
18 / F / Indonesia Raya
Offline
Posted 10/1/09 , edited 10/1/09

DomFortress wrote:


Ryutai-Desk wrote:

About missile defense is all about paranoia from US and EU also it's about politic for Russia. Same goes to Iran's Nuclear, Biological Weapon and Axis of Evil which is laughable.

Having Nuclear weapon is like having a newest toy. Children(Nations of Europe and US) showing and bragging to their friends that they can afford such expensive toy. While certain kid(Iran) also can buy the toy, they don't like it. And they bully(sanctions) and trying to get the kid's toy. However, because the kid has backup from another strong kids(China & Russia). They can't merely get the toy. Knowing this, the children who trying to get the toy, offered an unspoken promise.

The children apparently had stepping(Missile Defense) into the kid's territory and saying they won't go to their(Russia) territory because they want to focused more on the kid's friend. Glad knowing the children will not causing trouble to their territory, the kid(Russia) speak to his friend(Iran) to give up his toy(Nuclear). What we should questioning is the interest of certain nations to their relationship of others which could divert their individual reasons.


I'll be honest here that I think treating genocidal weaponry like nuclear missiles as mere toy is a big mistake on your part.

I've been studying weapons as a childhood hobby of mine, because I find their existence to be an extraordinary concept both practically and philosophically. In a sense that the advance of weapon technology doesn't benefit human living condition directly, when even the standard conventional weaponry such as firearms had but one design purpose in mind; to kill.

The progress of genocidal weaponry advancement, is the human emotion of cruelty disguised itself behind logic. Subjectively speaking a nuclear missile annihilates everything within its affective range, while the heat and shock wave are byproducts of spontaneous nuclear fission. However unlike conventional weaponry that can leave bullet holes, or tactical weaponry that can destroy structures, genocidal weaponry are capable of causing long-lasting chain reactions on an environmental scale.

My people perfected the Art of War, which is why Sun Tzu preferred confrontations of wits and diplomacy rather than all-out wars. When our Chinese history of wars was the end of a dynasty's own diplomacy. In other words, we can rebuild just as often as we can destroy, when genocide was out of the question. In fact, the Chinese people had only been rebelling against acts of cruelty throughout our history. Nothing political, religious, economical, nor factional. We don't care who our emperor is, if we felt our lives had been cruel to us, and the emperor was responsible of our misery. We'll be soon painting the Forbidden Palace with his blood for the next emperor. Not to mention is the fact that Chinese nuclear weapon capability was the result of diplomacy with the former USSR back in the 1950's, not bragging rights: http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/china/nuke/index.html

Therefore today's UN nuclear weapon policy is a diplomatic statement of "I'll be developing nuclear weapons now, and this is what I won't be doing with them: acts of cruelty." And as long as the current Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is responsible of acts of cruelty(http://www.iranhumanrights.org/2009/09/mobilebillboard/), I personally think Iran shouldn't have nuclear weapon capability.


well .... duh...
Of course the existence of atom itself is one to be fully concerned about. But whether it's dangerous or beneficial. It's depends on the person, whether he is evil or good. As the creator itself said... “Had I known that the Germans would not succeed in producing an atomic bomb,” he told Newsweek, “I never would have lifted a finger.” He pointed out, correctly. (Albert Einstein )

The matter is who could judge a person whether he is evil or good? Just because of the majority said he is evil, thus he is evil? How about that majority that said he is evil are all evil? Reminds me of the countries who send troops of reinforcement to Iraq, Afghanistan without knowing what the heck actually happened? Does the Biological Weapon exists? Who is the true Axis of Evil actually?

Of course, when a nation in possesion of nuclear weapon and they didn't even sign the treaty to not use nuclear weapon wrongly is dangerous(Pakistan,). Funny thing the one who gave the nuclear itself is the one who accusing a country that has been signed the treaty. Who violated the treaty actually, the one who in possession or the one who gave them that 'possession' of nuclear?

Nuclear weapon sure is a big deal, North Korea used it to get world's attention and to get aid for their miserable villager. I'll be honest here, what will happen to North Korea (The leader and villager) if they not possession of nuclear weapon? Every countries in the world could care less about it. Like UN when they always give difficulties to African countries for export and import legislation. In my opinion, North Korea using their nuclear weapon as a prove of their existence. It's like saying if they don't use the nuclear to conduct test and frightening the world. Will there a future to North Korea? While the 6 talks always corner North Korea in every seconds.

Actually, you're bit misunderstanding about my statement of toy.
"Having Nuclear weapon is like having a newest toy. "
I'm actually not questioning (or having problem) about the toy which is nuclear here. What I concern is the children, the attitude of the children who had such dangerous toy. The main word is "Having" a newest toy, not a toy itself. Therefore, the childish nations are the ones who shouldn't , couldn't and wouldn't have any rights of possessions of Nuclear Weapon. Funny... the Biological Weapon statement and its allies that send their troops to dead just because of childish statement..

Act of cruelty? Who have right to judge whether it's cruel or not? Especially when the judges are already been brainwashed by media because of self interest not based on the world peace. If that your definition, how about China of their Tibetan and Uighur? Also Israel to Palestinian people?
Maybe you should watch the full interview of Ahmadinejad with Larry King here and judge it by your hearts:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsOLYSJMRUs
Posted 10/1/09

Ryutai-Desk wrote:
well .... duh...
Of course the existence of atom itself is one to be fully concerned about. But whether it's dangerous or beneficial. It's depends on the person, whether he is evil or good. As the creator itself said... “Had I known that the Germans would not succeed in producing an atomic bomb,” he told Newsweek, “I never would have lifted a finger.” He pointed out, correctly. (Albert Einstein )

The matter is who could judge a person whether he is evil or good? Just because of the majority said he is evil, thus he is evil? How about that majority that said he is evil are all evil? Reminds me of the countries who send troops of reinforcement to Iraq, Afghanistan without knowing what the heck actually happened? Does the Biological Weapon exists? Who is the true Axis of Evil actually?

Of course, when a nation in possesion of nuclear weapon and they didn't even sign the treaty to not use nuclear weapon wrongly is dangerous(Pakistan,). Funny thing the one who gave the nuclear itself is the one who accusing a country that has been signed the treaty. Who violated the treaty actually, the one who in possession or the one who gave them that 'possession' of nuclear?

Nuclear weapon sure is a big deal, North Korea used it to get world's attention and to get aid for their miserable villager. I'll be honest here, what will happen to North Korea (The leader and villager) if they not possession of nuclear weapon? Every countries in the world could care less about it. Like UN when they always give difficulties to African countries for export and import legislation. In my opinion, North Korea using their nuclear weapon as a prove of their existence. It's like saying if they don't use the nuclear to conduct test and frightening the world. Will there a future to North Korea? While the 6 talks always corner North Korea in every seconds.

Actually, you're bit misunderstanding about my statement of toy.
"Having Nuclear weapon is like having a newest toy. "
I'm actually not questioning (or having problem) about the toy which is nuclear here. What I concern is the children, the attitude of the children who had such dangerous toy. The main word is "Having" a newest toy, not a toy itself. Therefore, the childish nations are the ones who shouldn't , couldn't and wouldn't have any rights of possessions of Nuclear Weapon. Funny... the Biological Weapon statement and its allies that send their troops to dead just because of childish statement..

Act of cruelty? Who have right to judge whether it's cruel or not? Especially when the judges are already been brainwashed by media because of self interest not based on the world peace. If that your definition, how about China of their Tibetan and Uighur? Also Israel to Palestinian people?
Maybe you should watch the full interview of Ahmadinejad with Larry King here and judge it by your hearts:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsOLYSJMRUs

Albert Einstein was a selfish man, when he didn't even informed the public about the possible weapon implementation of atomic energy and the horror of its destructive aftermath. Because he knew so ahead of time, but decided to pursuit his own self-interest in atomic research. And in times of war, one can only be cruel when one is also selfish.

You can say that we all started with us not knowing anything about good and evil. But we all learn, do we not?

What about the fact that those nuclear weapons came into existence before the treaty itself? And now those same weapons are the last line of defense through retaliation. Those nuclear weapons came into existence during a time of war, but now they're serving for a different purpose during a time of peace. None of those nuclear weapons can go away, as long as there's a nation still holding onto theirs.

Nation like North Korea is one of such existence, when they selfishly developed nuclear weapons to sever their own political agenda, but not being targeted by anyone with nuclear weapons: http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/dprk/nuke/index.html

Weapons aren't toys, when diplomacy isn't child's play. You need to know how to tell apart good diplomacy from bad, but you can't do that when you think all nations are behaving childishly.

Act of cruelty is universal, when we have fundamental human rights that's beyond diplomacy. You and I know that as developed nations there are certain human rights that need to be respected and thus protected by laws, however there are several Iranian laws that clearly violate human rights(http://civilliberty.about.com/od/internationalhumanrights/p/iran101.htm). And the current Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad not just responsible for those laws because he is the president, but fully supporting them because he's a Islam.
10652 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
18 / F / Indonesia Raya
Offline
Posted 10/2/09

DomFortress wrote:


Ryutai-Desk wrote:



Albert Einstein was a selfish man, when he didn't even informed the public about the possible weapon implementation of atomic energy and the horror of its destructive aftermath. Because he knew so ahead of time, but decided to pursuit his own self-interest in atomic research. And in times of war, one can only be cruel when one is also selfish.

You can say that we all started with us not knowing anything about good and evil. But we all learn, do we not?

What about the fact that those nuclear weapons came into existence before the treaty itself? And now those same weapons are the last line of defense through retaliation. Those nuclear weapons came into existence during a time of war, but now they're serving for a different purpose during a time of peace. None of those nuclear weapons can go away, as long as there's a nation still holding onto theirs.

Nation like North Korea is one of such existence, when they selfishly developed nuclear weapons to sever their own political agenda, but not being targeted by anyone with nuclear weapons: http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/dprk/nuke/index.html

Weapons aren't toys, when diplomacy isn't child's play. You need to know how to tell apart good diplomacy from bad, but you can't do that when you think all nations are behaving childishly.

Act of cruelty is universal, when we have fundamental human rights that's beyond diplomacy. You and I know that as developed nations there are certain human rights that need to be respected and thus protected by laws
, however there are several Iranian laws that clearly violate human rights(http://civilliberty.about.com/od/internationalhumanrights/p/iran101.htm). And the current Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad not just responsible for those laws because he is the president, but fully supporting them because he's a Islam.


It's the nature of all scientists and professors for being selfish and stubborn, in fact those are the requirements of being one, knowing all founder were being called insane at the first they telling others their invention. From what I heard, he continued the research because the authority at that time insists him due to endless war.

I heard before about Einstein and Atomic Bomb. I couldn't remember the exact words, but hopefully this could describe.
"When the Atomic Bomb has successfully hit the target, all Americans were cheerful and celebrate it under the parade of US military planes. However, there was one Americans who felt the opposite, he didn't look the outcome from war and political respective point of view. He was more concerned about the lives that had killed and wandering deathly under the dark sky.
He didn't stop praying and praying with his hands shaking. He was thinking, his hands was the caused of all of this. As American, should I be happy because the war has ended? Maybe... But as human beings, could I celebrate this drinking beer while those people there can only drink the dark rain I created?! He was Albert Einstein. History tells him as hero, but he tells himself as sinner. "


The problem is, does those human beings actually learn from their mistake? In history, it has been repeated that they always made a big loss of their actions. Vietnam, Cold War, Iraq, Afghanistan ... etc. They just can merely accused and accusing until the day we stand now. I bet, there will be more lives died in upcoming war if they can't learn.
Teh Pride,Teh Arrogance... it burns.

The Nuclear Weapon only being used to humans just twice.The first was a test too. Funny, the one who used it were not the world so called enemy, when we know who is the killer at that time, the past, now and might be the future. The one who caused destruction to the world. That's why Iran offering to have talks, have you watched Ahmadinejad's interview with Larry King? He came to US to talk about Nuclear programme but what happened? No one from official authority wanted to talks with him, only from several media. Who can't let go of Nuclear Weapon? I may ask.....

The situation in North Korea might be simple when you see it outside from their view and conditions. Not being targeted? They got many threats from influences countries to attack North korea people. They can only think of defense theirselves by giving those influence countries a threat too, that is. Nuclear Weapon. We know, the people of North Korea are in miserable conditions and this already been continuing for decades. The whole world cornering this small country by threats after threats. What if the North Korea given up their nuclear? Does the world care about them afterward? They might be treated as same as those in Iraq and Afghanistan, by Bagram and Abu Ghraib facility in it. It's dilemma, actually. Therefore, there must be a guarantee from the world if they will give up the Nuclear. But could they believe in such guarantee by merciless country?

An individual with heart already know whether their diplomacy is bad or good. Causing hundreds of thousands lives lost from both sides is not a joke. When a powerful president said, "they have Bilogical Weapon and they are the Axis of Evil, so let's fight against them" And so its allies(formed by DEVELOPED nations) applause, cheered and blindly helped this evil diplomacy by childish statement that caused lives of human beings lost from both sides. Where is Biological Weapon... btw? Who is the real evil, the one that made Bagram, Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo, correct?


Does only Iran who has this problems? Iran has signed the treaty, how about Israel, Pakistan and India? Does because of that, then you can merely said they are irresponsible? The laws in Iran are regulated by Islamic laws, therefore when you don't understand the laws, you can't said they are wrong. How about China? They posses Nuclear Weapon, but do they even care about human rights? Knowing Tibetan and Uighur people are being violated in huge scale.
Does the nations that can respect human rights therefore have right to possess Nuclear Weapon? Should fully know about invasion in modern history because of false accusation. After that, they're not stop. They build those inhuman facility that clearly violates human rights.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Ghraib_torture_and_prisoner_abuse
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guantanamo_Bay_detention_camp
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bagram_Air_Base

Of course, not all countries are freed by skeletons in their cabinet . However, the prejudice and bias always being arises when this nations offers to talks while they admitted for having such facility. They are well cooperated with IAEA. Why only this nation? Just because of their religion and ideology different?

The evilness within human's heart is burning by 7 sins.


Posted 10/2/09

Ryutai-Desk wrote:

It's the nature of all scientists and professors for being selfish and stubborn, in fact those are the requirements of being one, knowing all founder were being called insane at the first they telling others their invention. From what I heard, he continued the research because the authority at that time insists him due to endless war.

I heard before about Einstein and Atomic Bomb. I couldn't remember the exact words, but hopefully this could describe.
"When the Atomic Bomb has successfully hit the target, all Americans were cheerful and celebrate it under the parade of US military planes. However, there was one Americans who felt the opposite, he didn't look the outcome from war and political respective point of view. He was more concerned about the lives that had killed and wandering deathly under the dark sky.
He didn't stop praying and praying with his hands shaking. He was thinking, his hands was the caused of all of this. As American, should I be happy because the war has ended? Maybe... But as human beings, could I celebrate this drinking beer while those people there can only drink the dark rain I created?! He was Albert Einstein. History tells him as hero, but he tells himself as sinner. "


The problem is, does those human beings actually learn from their mistake? In history, it has been repeated that they always made a big loss of their actions. Vietnam, Cold War, Iraq, Afghanistan ... etc. They just can merely accused and accusing until the day we stand now. I bet, there will be more lives died in upcoming war if they can't learn.
Teh Pride,Teh Arrogance... it burns.

The Nuclear Weapon only being used to humans just twice.The first was a test too. Funny, the one who used it were not the world so called enemy, when we know who is the killer at that time, the past, now and might be the future. The one who caused destruction to the world. That's why Iran offering to have talks, have you watched Ahmadinejad's interview with Larry King? He came to US to talk about Nuclear programme but what happened? No one from official authority wanted to talks with him, only from several media. Who can't let go of Nuclear Weapon? I may ask.....

The situation in North Korea might be simple when you see it outside from their view and conditions. Not being targeted? They got many threats from influences countries to attack North korea people. They can only think of defense theirselves by giving those influence countries a threat too, that is. Nuclear Weapon. We know, the people of North Korea are in miserable conditions and this already been continuing for decades. The whole world cornering this small country by threats after threats. What if the North Korea given up their nuclear? Does the world care about them afterward? They might be treated as same as those in Iraq and Afghanistan, by Bagram and Abu Ghraib facility in it. It's dilemma, actually. Therefore, there must be a guarantee from the world if they will give up the Nuclear. But could they believe in such guarantee by merciless country?

An individual with heart already know whether their diplomacy is bad or good. Causing hundreds of thousands lives lost from both sides is not a joke. When a powerful president said, "they have Bilogical Weapon and they are the Axis of Evil, so let's fight against them" And so its allies(formed by DEVELOPED nations) applause, cheered and blindly helped this evil diplomacy by childish statement that caused lives of human beings lost from both sides. Where is Biological Weapon... btw? Who is the real evil, the one that made Bagram, Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo, correct?


Does only Iran who has this problems? Iran has signed the treaty, how about Israel, Pakistan and India? Does because of that, then you can merely said they are irresponsible? The laws in Iran are regulated by Islamic laws, therefore when you don't understand the laws, you can't said they are wrong. How about China? They posses Nuclear Weapon, but do they even care about human rights? Knowing Tibetan and Uighur people are being violated in huge scale.
Does the nations that can respect human rights therefore have right to possess Nuclear Weapon? Should fully know about invasion in modern history because of false accusation. After that, they're not stop. They build those inhuman facility that clearly violates human rights.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Ghraib_torture_and_prisoner_abuse
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guantanamo_Bay_detention_camp
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bagram_Air_Base

Of course, not all countries are freed by skeletons in their cabinet . However, the prejudice and bias always being arises when this nations offers to talks while they admitted for having such facility. They are well cooperated with IAEA. Why only this nation? Just because of their religion and ideology different?

The evilness within human's heart is burning by 7 sins.

As an amateur social scientist and a passionate philosopher in training, I beg to differ.

This was also Albert Einstein in real life; someone who's incapable of being loved by others, when he related such act to heroism and patriotism, while he had a questionable understanding on what democracy is and how it works:

... "My political ideal is democracy. Let every man be respected as an individual and no man idolized.

... "This topic brings me to that worst outcrop of herd life, the military system, which I abhor... This plague-spot of civilization ought to be abolished with all possible speed. Heroism on command, senseless violence, and all the loathsome nonsense that goes by the name of patriotism -- how passionately I hate them!


Taken from Albert Einstein's essay The World As I See It: http://www.aip.org/history/einstein/essay.htm
And true enough, he didn't took celebrity lifestyle all that well:

Fame was not a natural fit for Einstein's shy personality. He soon tired of being stopped on the street by complete strangers, sometimes telling them, "Very sorry, I am often mistaken for the famous Professor Einstein." But such evasions could not reduce the magnitude of Einstein's celebrity. From the 1920s through the 1950s, much of the public remained convinced that Einstein was not only one of the world's smartest individuals, but one of its wisest as well. People constantly sought his advice on matters great and small. (A teenage girl once wrote him asking for help with her math homework; Einstein replied, "Do not worry about your difficulties in mathematics; I can assure you that mine are much greater.") Uncomfortable as he was in the spotlight, Einstein resolved to use the platform offered by his fame to speak out on the major political and humanitarian problems of his time. Albert Einstein became a forceful advocate for the causes dearest to his social vision—internationalism, pacifism, and Zionism.

http://www.shmoop.com/albert-einstein/social-causes.html
As for the authority back then insisted Albert Einstein to finish with his atomic research, well apparently he's not the kind of person to turn down request from others, except when it came from his own significant others:

Friendship means a great deal to Einstein, perhaps even more than love relationships or romance. For Albert Einstein to be happy, his mate must be his best friend and encourage Albert's aspirations and ideals. Albert Einstein also needs a great deal of emotional freedom and mobility.

Albert Einstein has a sympathetic nature and instinctively reaches out to people in need of help. Einstein also has a deeply ingrained tendency to want to improve or "fix" other people's lives, which can be annoying to the person who has no desire to be changed or "helped" in this way. For Albert, affection and caring must be expressed in tangible acts or service of some kind.

Albert Einstein feels that little, daily acts of caring and thoughtfulness are essential to the happiness and success of relationships and he knows how to make others feel accepted, loved, and cherished. He enjoys good relationships with women.

His love feelings and desires are easily aroused but it may be difficult to sustain his romantic interest in relationships after the initial, exciting "chase and conquest". Albert Einstein enjoys a partner who is dynamic and alive, someone with a strong independent streak, and he does not like things to become too peaceful or predictable in the love arena. Albert wants to see sparks fly once in awhile, even if that means instigating a fight.


http://famous-relationships.topsynergy.com/Albert_Einstein/
I can assure you, there's something deeply troubling a person who felt and believed that he must help others, but thought and did differently when it came to those who were closest to him.

The real problem is there are those who keep repeating past mistakes, that's now being proven as acts of cruelty with social science. But they refuse to change because those were their religions, traditions, and/or laws. When the fact is they're just systems based on ideologies that don't improve human living conditions, once again proven with the help of social science.

The current Iranian president can talk all he wants, but it doesn't matter what he's got to say for himself. When he's a puppet who only does his spiritual leaders' bidding, while what they said and did with their nuclear program don't change the fact that they're a religious group that practice acts of cruelty as part of their tradition. Because even power plant grade plutonium can be used to build nuclear weapons: http://scitizen.com/screens/blogPage/viewBlog/sw_viewBlog.php?idTheme=14&idContribution=2370

In other words, as soon as a nation like Iran with power plant grade plutonium can launch tactical missiles, they have the potential to obtain nuclear weapons. But insofar, even a request for negotiation seems to be out of the question for Iran:

After he met Netanyahu, Obama declared a readiness to seek deeper international sanctions against Iran if it shunned U.S. attempts to open negotiations on its nuclear program. The president said he expected a positive response to his outreach for opening a dialogue with Iran by the end of the year. So far, the Obama administration has received a mixed response from Ahmadinejad.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/05/20/official-confirms-irans-missile-launch/


How can you say a nation like North Korea are being targeted and threaten, when they've bee receiving aids from human rights groups all over the world? But still doing poorly despise their nuclear weapon(not power) capability: http://www.amnestyusa.org/all-countries/north-korea/more-information-on-north-korea/page.do?id=1011313

Therefore I ask, do you think the the current US president with his diplomacy is such heartless man? When his oppositions are being supported by a bunch of people with "childish statements". In fact, I don't think what President Obama thought and did were childish at all, even though he still has to appeal to the US citizens who are acting childishly.

And finally, as an amateur social scientist, my advice to you is to start thinking about the causes-and-effects, and not just focusing on the results. Otherwise you're going to ran-out of "skeletons in their cabinet", before you can even think of ways to solve problems. Because all you can think of is building a cabinet called "respecting" another nation's laws, religions, and their ways of life according to the "evilness within human's heart." When you ended up respecting an institution of evil at work.
20924 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
20 / M / Singapore
Offline
Posted 10/2/09 , edited 10/2/09

digs wrote:

Actually, Iran has lied about the nuclear site for years. They built it underground and said it never existed. At the summit in Geneva Iran refused to discuss their nuclear program... They have enough uranium to make a weapon, and the government is crazy enough to launch one off at Israel (Or sell one to other crazy Middle Eastern nations who would do the same). A nuclear Iran is a bad thing. Look at what happened during the election... the protests and the human rights violations. They even execute children and commit other horrible atrocities. A nation like this can't have nukes and imo should be overthrown. It's dangerous. Even if they agree to allow visits who is to say they aren't hiding things? They hid this facility and are enriching enough uranium for warheads... the president says he wants to destroy Israel and the country violates human rights on so many levels. Iran just can't be trusted.


Why don't you blame the CIA which they orchestrated a coup against democratically-elected Prime Minister Mossadegh in 1953? This has led to rise of Islamism in the country. They have never invade or occupy any country for the past hundred years. The US is playing sides now, choosing to focus on Iran instead of Israel which they wont allow UN inspectors into their own nuclear site.
4053 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
M / Yo Mommas House
Offline
Posted 10/2/09 , edited 10/2/09
Ahmadenijad outmatches any western propaganda media outlet that interviews him with great answers towards questions and great counter questions which shows our hypocrisy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIc2fhDYG78&feature=channel
First  Prev  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9  10  11  12  13  14  15  Next  Last
You must be logged in to post.