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Iran’s Nuclear Ambition
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63 / M / Croatia
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Posted 10/16/09
I can agree on that one: plenty of laws in Muslim countries in middle east have nothing to do with kur'an, but have a lot to do with tribal laws and customs of nomads in that area. That concerns every law made for women, and plenty of laws made for christians and jews (last few suras witch were added between the time the Prophet died and when they banned adding stuff to Kur'an in XII century). I am saying that as MA in religious cultures, and my Islam teacher was muftija (wtf in english I dont know) for 3 countries, and he told me so, that we must not mix Muslim customas and customs from middle east: those are totally different.
As for the rest of the stuff. Iran was one of the most advanced Muslim countries in the region, and US destroyed it, so whatever happens its their own mistake, especially since all this would not happen if they did not messed with that countries politics 30 or something years ago.
After all this debate I really dont care any more, since it is only Israel that is in real danger, and I can only hope that my or any other European country will not send troops there if the war begins, witch I really hope it will not. It is Israel - US - Iran problem. I am sure that whatever happens EU will sit in their comfy chairs and try to talk it out. No one outside Europe understands the psyhology and indoctrination of people on whose soil 2 bloody world wars were fought.
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M / Yo Mommas House
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Posted 10/16/09

blancer wrote:

I can agree on that one: plenty of laws in Muslim countries in middle east have nothing to do with kur'an, but have a lot to do with tribal laws and customs of nomads in that area. That concerns every law made for women, and plenty of laws made for christians and jews (last few suras witch were added between the time the Prophet died and when they banned adding stuff to Kur'an in XII century). I am saying that as MA in religious cultures, and my Islam teacher was muftija (wtf in english I dont know) for 3 countries, and he told me so, that we must not mix Muslim customas and customs from middle east: those are totally different.
As for the rest of the stuff. Iran was one of the most advanced Muslim countries in the region, and US destroyed it, so whatever happens its their own mistake, especially since all this would not happen if they did not messed with that countries politics 30 or something years ago.
After all this debate I really dont care any more, since it is only Israel that is in real danger, and I can only hope that my or any other European country will not send troops there if the war begins, witch I really hope it will not. It is Israel - US - Iran problem. I am sure that whatever happens EU will sit in their comfy chairs and try to talk it out. No one outside Europe understands the psyhology and indoctrination of people on whose soil 2 bloody world wars were fought.


It really isnt a US problem and I cant even really say it is even an Israel problem also. Israel just wants to be the dominant country in that reason so she feels if a country is developing nuclear techonolgy they have to destroy it. To Israel they are the only ones allowed to have nuclear technology. They call the shots if they want to nuke an arab country so be it the arabs will have nothing to defend themselves with. As long as there is no standing arab army to match their might then can keep invading any arab country without any punishment from the UN because US will always be there to back their crimes. People are just over exaggerating Irans issues to sway you away from the real problems around the world with other countries. What Iran is doing right now (which is not really anything bad at all) is minor to what other countries are doing. But alas since he has a different view of the holocaust he is now the new hitler. With no proof of him wanting to actually kill all jews or develop a weapon to destroy Israel (as you can see on this thread no proof what so ever) they going to keep touting that to try to bring upon more sanctions against Iran who continues to do nothing but obide by the IEIA.

Now if Israel was to ever go to war with a country that can withstand her might you better believe the USA will die for that country and try its best to persuade Americans how important Israel interests are and how much greater it is then the USA. You are most defiantly right when you talk about the muslim countries that all comes from culture. Think about it here in the USA women didnt have equal rights as well untill later in the 1900's. They had to fight for it but are we blaming Christianity for this? People are just to damn ignorant they see one country and base that one countries actions and say thats how the whole religion teaches you to act. Hopefully the women will fight for their rights just like the women in the USA but thats not our problem though thats theirs. In the USA the women didnt recieve any military help from other nations to achieve their goals it was all from the inside.

Check this out the state of California is backrupt and our government wont give them a dime. Instead we rather continue to give Israel billions of free money, economic aid and military aid. Just who is more important here fellow Americans or Israel?
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18 / F / Indonesia Raya
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Posted 10/16/09

digs wrote:

Iran has not been following the IAEA though. They have lied about their nuclear plants and hid the second one. This is fact. If they were following regulations there would be no problem. The big nations are focusing on Iran because the leadership is a threat to some countries national security and because they strongly believe that Iran is illegally seeking nuclear weapons. The world did focus on North Korea though (To some extent). When they tested missiles the US, South Korea, and Japan all rose up and tried to calm the situation. North Korea is not bound by the IAEA though. Regardless, I do agree that we need to stop North Korea because their leader is even more crazy (North Korea has the highest human rights violations in my opinion).

However, if anything we need to learn form North Korea and understand that we need to stop nations from obtaining nuclear weapons before they have them and it becomes a bigger issue. We should applyu what happened to Iran and stop them before they have a weapon. North Korea is a threat, Israel is not a thread, Pakistan is a potential threat, and India is not a threat. I have already stated why North Korea is a threat (also because they want to destroy South Korea and make the whole Korean peninsula a communist dictatorship).

Pakistan is only a potential threat because of the Taliban. As of now they are fine, but if the Taliban takes control of Pakistan then their nuclear weapons would be a threat. India isn't a threat, they aren't proclaiming genocide on anyone. If anything Pakistan and India's weapons prevent one side from completely going to war with the other (because India and Pakistan have some issues between each other over land).


❀=✿

I've already explained in few pages that Iran HAS BEEN following IAEA. They did not lie because of "In accordance with Article 42 of Iran's Safeguards Agreement, and Code 3.1 of the General Part of the Subsidiary Arrangements (also known as the "additional protocol")." Should read it carefully.

Why Pakistan is categorized as a threat, while India and Israel are not? Who define the threats? Not because of political reasons, right? It's hypocrite when US was the one who give Pakistan Nuclear Weapon.

India and Pakistan would vanishing each other if they use Nuclear Weapon to each of them if they can't re-conciliate their relationship. That's what we feared.


digs wrote:

I read your link and I it never says that the US is getting oil. It talked about individuals who made these deals with Sadam. Why would the US overthrow Sadam's dictatorship if we were getting oil from him? I find it interesting that many of the people receiving oil from Sadam adamantly oppose the war in Iraq... Perhaps they care more about Sadam oil deals then they do national security?


❀=✿

Well, those individuals are from US big company. Anyone might suspect, the business deal are only with US company and US government, not to Iraqi people. Never heard Iraqi people has benefit from oil, except the corrupt ones.


digs wrote:

I think you missed my point. Ahmedinejad condemns Israel because he hates Israel and is racist against Israelis and Jews. My point is that if he is so passionate about ending "Zionist oppression" and is angered by seeing human rights being violated, then why doesn't he do the same to the rest of the Arab world who has even higher human rights violations? He is using hypocrisy to look like a moral man in order to hate on Israel and say that they are an immoral oppressive nation... it's called manipulation and it shows how hypocritical and racism Ahmedinejad really is.

Ahmedinejad points to the US because he supports terrorism... The leadership of Iran supports terrorism. Of course Iran will get angry at the US. The US is trying to rid the Middle East of terrorist groups like Al-Qaeda, the Taliban, and others. Ahmedinejad supports them because of his evil beliefs. The US didn't go to war on baseless accusations. First of all we were attacked by terrorists who killed thousands of American citizens. I myself was personally affected. I have family both in New York City and in the Washington D.C. area. My hometown is near Washington D.C. and my dad even worked a few miles away from the Pentagon in Arlington. The US was attacked and we needed to defend ourselves and others from these terrorist. This is why we went into Afghanistan. Also, we went to Iraq because it was believed by the world that Sadam supported terrorism and had weapons of mass destruction. Sadam was a terrorist dictator. The US didn't act alone, other countries helped and most supported us and believed the reports from many nations that stated Iraq had a high probability of possessing WMDs.

The rest of the world fears the terrorists, not opposes them. Nations are weak and unwilling to stand for what is right. As Netenyahu said
The barbarians are the terrorists. Literally, look at how Hamas treated Fatah, how Al-Quara and the Taliban treat women and non Muslims and Muslims who don't support them. They are the Barbarians.


❀=✿

If Ahmadinejad condemn and racist against Jews, then why he allowed Jews stay in his country? The Jews in Iran are not under oppression as you always said this entire time while I've already wrote, posted the link that they are live there peacefully and have rights to express their religion. You haven't read it my post few pages back or simply you can't accept it?

If that the reasons I can understand, however since US army came to Iraq and Afghanistan, the whole countries are under chaos everyday. US army can't stabilize conditions nor they can make the situation better nor they can wipe off the 'terrorist'. Before US army came, Saddam's regime is in stability, same goes to Afghanista.

The question is, how do you define the terrorist? While the nation who occupying, looting and killing people in weak countries are the ones who spread the hatred and made anti-US slogan in all developing countries, like Africa, South America and Asia countries.


digs wrote:

Why visit Iran though? If I go I can't bring my Bible or listen to Christian music. My rights will be oppressed and I'll most likely be put in jail for my faith. If I go to Iran it means sacrificing my freedoms and being subjugated to their oppressive laws. Visiting Iran will only prove my point. We can't trust Iran anyway. If a country is killing and shooting protesters and then forcing the media out what should we conclude? Iran did this to try and cover up the truth of who their government really is. Why would they have to do this if they are a good nation that allowed protests? I don't need to go to Iran to see that they bar the media and oppress people.

And there is a problem with going between Iran and Israel. Afghanistan, Algeria, Iran, Iraq, Kuwait, Lebanon, Libya, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, Sudan, Syria, and Yemen all prevent people who have an Israeli passport or who have been to Israel from entering their countries. Why? Because they are racist and hate Israel enough to keep all out who are from there or who have been there. They also say that if they allowed people in it means that they acknowledge Israel as a nation... How hate filled can a nation? To the point that they refuse entry because they stubbornly want to put their heads in the sand and say that Israel is not a county?

Iran may have the 2nd highest Jewish population in the Middle East, but does that mean it's good? it only differers by a few thousand and they are still only less then 0.05% of the total Iranian population and shrinking.

❀=✿

Why not? Clearly you haven't read my post at all few pages back that explain and proven Iranian Christian and Iranian Jews can express their religion freely. Even, one of Jews said Iranian muslim are kinder to Jews than to muslims itself. You can't trust them, because simply you don't have any intention to understand them.

They hate Israel because Israel make Palestinian people suffering. Maybe you should go to Palestine instead, to know how cruel the treatment from Israel.

The statistics has proven Iranian Jews happily live in Iran from decades ago. If you don't know statistics, thousand can meant a lot in population and civilian calculus. They are shrinking because they moved or convert to other religion.



digs wrote:

Israel didn't attack Palestine, they were trying to protect themselves from Hamas who despite warning, kept on firing rockets at civilian Israeli targets. Why were some victims civilian? Because Hamas uses human shields and bases military operations in civilian areas. We can't ignore the fact that Israel sent txt messages, phone calls, e-mails, and dropped fliers to warn civilians of incoming strikes. Their intent isn't to kill civilians and this proves it.

❀=✿

Israel used Palestinian people as human shields. That's true. Look at these video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjEd4hJNVCE

Especially this video, those Jews insulting Jesus.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYuWOi56Wq0



digs wrote:

The conflict arises because Ahmedinejad cheated his way in, the Ayatollah refused electoral justice, and Iran attacked, imprisoned, killed, and oppressed protesters. They blocked foreign media from reporting the Iranian atrocities and finding the truth... What can we conclude? That the Iranian elections were corrupt and they are run by a theocratic totalitarian democracy. Why would they bar the media if their wasn't anything wrong going on? The truth is that Iran can't be trusted and their actions only prove that they can't be...

❀=✿

You haven't read my post few pages back again. I think it's futile if I keep repeating again.



digs wrote:

It's only opinion that the wars are a violation of human rights. The US isn't going into towns and purposely attacking civilians. It isn't our intent to do so, but rather to rid the Middle East of terrorists organizations that are a threat to the world and to the Middle East. The ones doing the human rights oppressions are the terrorist groups that the US is trying to destroy. The Taliban was trying to oppress people during the Afghanistan elections, they train children into terrorism, and they are also the ones who are preforming most of the suicide bombings against civilians.

The suicide bombers in Baghdad aren't US soldiers, they are terrorists who's goal is to kill innocent people. We are trying to stop this and bring peace to the region. The ones doing wrong are the terrorists, this is the conflict. Although I accept your opinion and respect what you are saying, please try and understand what I am saying. I enjoy discussing these things with you


❀=✿

You haven't view the video nor the torture in those prisoners, right? Especially in Bagram and Abu Ghraib. Some prisoner are Civilian.One of them was Dillawar, a Taxi driver. US prisoner tortured him, beaten him to DEaTH. That's why Taliban hate them and trying to kick US army from their land.

Do you think Taliban are barbaric? They treat their prisoner, an US private Bowe R. Bergdahl, with respect and moral. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THmerXtKiqA The opposite of what US prison did to CIVILIAN people.

Please study it deeper and carefully.
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Posted 10/16/09

DomFortress wrote:

Do you know why I refuse to even look at the so called "Holy Book"? When the book itself got nothing to do with how Iran became a nation under totalitarian democracy through obstructing human rights and with media blockade. Because that's not how Muslims conduct themselves in developed countries. And that Canadian Muslim sounds like he's got more love for his fellow Islamic women, than the Iranian Guardian Council have for me with their totalitarian democracy. Not their faith.


Of course. Because this thread was never talking about religion, you divert it yourself. I've explained about human rights and media blockade in previous post. If you can't accept it, then you're being ignorant and repeating same thing again and again.

You must be immediately type the 'war verses' while the verses mostly applies in the past, war time. That's why I hate ignorant atheist who only can attack religion from one side only. Well, if you insist, here is from your link:

Islam has recognized a certain amount of latitude in personal judgment and hence the sharp distinction between the Islamic rule in the Islamic faith. No-one is to be forced to embrace the Islamic faith; as we shall see presently, yet Islamic rule is to be established by all means.


It is well known that the Qur'an formally and repeatedly forbids to coerce or compel anybody to embrace Islam. The whole life of the Prophet shows that he sought liberty to preach his message. In his defensive or punitive wars, when he predominated, he compelled nobody to embrace Islam, but tolerated non-Muslims, Christians, Jews, Parsi’s in particular as subjects of the State. A very characteristic example is his letter to Heraclius; Byzantine emperor of the time. A Muslim ambassador was assassinated, in flagrant violation of international law, in the Byzantine territory. The letter that the Prophet wrote to the emperor is eloquent in this respect.

This passage envisages a recourse to arms with the following prerequisites, all else being unlawful in Islam.

(a) for the sake and in the path of God.
(b) in [the] case of defence.
(c) without least transgression.
(d) the right of belligerency includes killing wherever the enemy may be found, and may be turned out from places he occupies oppressively.
(e) no bloodshed in the vicinity of the House of God, except in self-defence.
(f) scrupulous observance of treaties and other contractual obligations, with regard to non-Muslims.
(g) avarice may be suicidal, and suicide is prohibited.


If you refuse, then that's your choice as we aren't obligated to tell you, moreover force you to convert. When I see your stance is only attacking religion without valid evidence. And without respect...


DomFortress wrote:

It's not their Iranian faith that made the Iranian Guardian Council to obtain nuclear technology, they made that clear. So it's you who failed to see that ultimately it's not their Islamic laws nor their NPT agreement that's causing the Iranians to obtain nuclear technology. While a few simple modifications on the Iranians' currently available domestic technology, can build an EMP device based on HANE maneuver. That's capable of rendering all electronics useless on a global scale.


you don't have any evidence that Iran has those HANE. While HANE was only tested and used before 1970.


DomFortress wrote:

So let's backtrack the current Iranian events in order to establish a precedent; who recently conducted an electronic countermeasure that's not of military objective? The answer: Iran.


China, Myammar, Russia, Honduras, Zimbabwe, etc.



For what purpose did that act served? The answer: to block international online journalism coverage on Iran during an Iranian political election.


To prevent provocation from western media, biased information and misleading news.



What happened after the Iranian political election? The answer: the hard-line Iranian conservatives won the political election and came to power for the second time.


As its people desired.



How did it happened? The answer: totalitarian democracy through obstructing human rights and with media blockade ever since 1979.


Dissatisfaction from Iranian people to reformist government that was unable to do anything in their 1st and 2nd period.


DomFortress wrote:

And now they can do it all over again, only the next time it can very well be with a HANE maneuver. When the Iranian president himself simply said to the nations of the world during the UN General Assembly, that the world just can't be what it is now. And what is the world that's not under totalitarian democracy but rather, heading towards globalization by uniting the people through technology?


Where is the evidence Iran has HANE? I think Iranian scientist don't have further knowledge about it. While only USA and USSR who had this maneuver.

The world shouldn't be under tyranny big nation who only can bullying weak countries, coward countries who can't do anything alone and fear make a deal of "The free global trading" from Africa countries and made injustice rules in IMF, OPEC...etc




My optimistic mind can allow me to see possibility, and that's probably why you liked me as a person. However, I do not like totalitarian democracy for what it is. And as long as you keep forcing totalitarian democracy under the pretense of your religion to me, I'll fight back.


Your ignorant mind don't have any capabilities to respect other people, instead spread hatred among religious people. However, I respect your way of life and intelligent for what it should be. As long as you keep accusing Iran and us under your ignorant of your 'optimistic' way and do not learn how to know the truth, I 'll keep face-palming.



Ignorant person without respect, repeating same things over and over again, using same old evidence to support your statement that actually backfired.

Arrogance person who can't accept others opinion, moreover insulting them without tolerant and to the kid that wayyy younger than him.

Prideful person who can't accept loss to 13 years old, realizing this he don't have any choice to argue back, except insulting her with childish way.

Conclusion: Arrogance person who has pitiful pride and think it's to embarrassing to loss to 13 years old girl. And instead, respecting her opinion, he underestimate her by saying disrespectful words in not elegant way.


If you want to bash people, keep it in elegant way. O Childish 31 years old.
Posted 10/16/09 , edited 10/16/09

Ryutai-Desk wrote:


DomFortress wrote:

Do you know why I refuse to even look at the so called "Holy Book"? When the book itself got nothing to do with how Iran became a nation under totalitarian democracy through obstructing human rights and with media blockade. Because that's not how Muslims conduct themselves in developed countries. And that Canadian Muslim sounds like he's got more love for his fellow Islamic women, than the Iranian Guardian Council have for me with their totalitarian democracy. Not their faith.


Of course. Because this thread was never talking about religion, you divert it yourself. I've explained about human rights and media blockade in previous post. If you can't accept it, then you're being ignorant and repeating same thing again and again.

You must be immediately type the 'war verses' while the verses mostly applies in the past, war time. That's why I hate ignorant atheist who only can attack religion from one side only. Well, if you insist, here is from your link:

Islam has recognized a certain amount of latitude in personal judgment and hence the sharp distinction between the Islamic rule in the Islamic faith. No-one is to be forced to embrace the Islamic faith; as we shall see presently, yet Islamic rule is to be established by all means.


It is well known that the Qur'an formally and repeatedly forbids to coerce or compel anybody to embrace Islam. The whole life of the Prophet shows that he sought liberty to preach his message. In his defensive or punitive wars, when he predominated, he compelled nobody to embrace Islam, but tolerated non-Muslims, Christians, Jews, Parsi’s in particular as subjects of the State. A very characteristic example is his letter to Heraclius; Byzantine emperor of the time. A Muslim ambassador was assassinated, in flagrant violation of international law, in the Byzantine territory. The letter that the Prophet wrote to the emperor is eloquent in this respect.

This passage envisages a recourse to arms with the following prerequisites, all else being unlawful in Islam.

(a) for the sake and in the path of God.
(b) in [the] case of defence.
(c) without least transgression.
(d) the right of belligerency includes killing wherever the enemy may be found, and may be turned out from places he occupies oppressively.
(e) no bloodshed in the vicinity of the House of God, except in self-defence.
(f) scrupulous observance of treaties and other contractual obligations, with regard to non-Muslims.
(g) avarice may be suicidal, and suicide is prohibited.


If you refuse, then that's your choice as we aren't obligated to tell you, moreover force you to convert. When I see your stance is only attacking religion without valid evidence. And without respect...


DomFortress wrote:

It's not their Iranian faith that made the Iranian Guardian Council to obtain nuclear technology, they made that clear. So it's you who failed to see that ultimately it's not their Islamic laws nor their NPT agreement that's causing the Iranians to obtain nuclear technology. While a few simple modifications on the Iranians' currently available domestic technology, can build an EMP device based on HANE maneuver. That's capable of rendering all electronics useless on a global scale.


you don't have any evidence that Iran has those HANE. While HANE was only tested and used before 1970.


DomFortress wrote:

So let's backtrack the current Iranian events in order to establish a precedent; who recently conducted an electronic countermeasure that's not of military objective? The answer: Iran.


China, Myammar, Russia, Honduras, Zimbabwe, etc.



For what purpose did that act served? The answer: to block international online journalism coverage on Iran during an Iranian political election.


To prevent provocation from western media, biased information and misleading news.



What happened after the Iranian political election? The answer: the hard-line Iranian conservatives won the political election and came to power for the second time.


As its people desired.



How did it happened? The answer: totalitarian democracy through obstructing human rights and with media blockade ever since 1979.


Dissatisfaction from Iranian people to reformist government that was unable to do anything in their 1st and 2nd period.


DomFortress wrote:

And now they can do it all over again, only the next time it can very well be with a HANE maneuver. When the Iranian president himself simply said to the nations of the world during the UN General Assembly, that the world just can't be what it is now. And what is the world that's not under totalitarian democracy but rather, heading towards globalization by uniting the people through technology?


Where is the evidence Iran has HANE? I think Iranian scientist don't have further knowledge about it. While only USA and USSR who had this maneuver.

The world shouldn't be under tyranny big nation who only can bullying weak countries, coward countries who can't do anything alone and fear make a deal of "The free global trading" from Africa countries and made injustice rules in IMF, OPEC...etc




My optimistic mind can allow me to see possibility, and that's probably why you liked me as a person. However, I do not like totalitarian democracy for what it is. And as long as you keep forcing totalitarian democracy under the pretense of your religion to me, I'll fight back.


Your ignorant mind don't have any capabilities to respect other people, instead spread hatred among religious people. However, I respect your way of life and intelligent for what it should be. As long as you keep accusing Iran and us under your ignorant of your 'optimistic' way and do not learn how to know the truth, I 'll keep face-palming.



Ignorant person without respect, repeating same things over and over again, using same old evidence to support your statement that actually backfired.

Arrogance person who can't accept others opinion, moreover insulting them without tolerant and to the kid that wayyy younger than him.

Prideful person who can't accept loss to 13 years old, realizing this he don't have any choice to argue back, except insulting her with childish way.

Conclusion: Arrogance person who has pitiful pride and think it's to embarrassing to loss to 13 years old girl. And instead, respecting her opinion, he underestimate her by saying disrespectful words in not elegant way.


If you want to bash people, keep it in elegant way. O Childish 31 years old.

Read it again, since when did I ever used the word "war" or "weapon" in my last post? Just like the Iranian Guardian Council did say that their religion forbid nuclear weapons, but they didn't say no to devices based on nuclear technology like nuclear power plants for electricity, enrichment sites for nuclear fuels, radioactive isotopes for medicines, or a HANE that has zero nuclear fallout thereby it's none-lethal. And they can very well say those devices are "for the sake and in the path of God". And they can very well do so "To prevent provocation from western media, biased information and misleading news" that's undermining their God.

And to think you speak for the Iranian nuclear scientists, when "Some 700 Iranian engineers were trained in Russia". And compared to high-tech device such as a mid-range nuclear surface-to-surface missile, a HANE maneuver is a relatively low-tech device when Iran have all the basic components at their disposal(enriched nuclear fuels, explosives, rockets, and research data). Even I can rig one up for them.

Now don't you want to change the world with such low-tech method? When even modern military operations depend heavily on technology for logistics and communications. After all, it's no secret that you hate war so much, it's all that you care about. And best of all, Iran can make your dream come true. They are your heroes, your saviors. And you will say anything just like you're under a spellbind of hero-worship. As long as they can exact your revenge on war by any means necessary.

Now you bored me.

I don't care what you want to accomplish in the end, it's your method of totalitarian democracy through the institution of obstructing human rights with media blockade that I disagree. When self-empowering institutions such as wellness life style teachings and positive psychology cannot exist in a totalitarian democratic world led by elitists. After all, nobody want to be overpowered by their slaves.
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Posted 10/17/09

CecilTheDarkKnight_234 wrote:

I just hope the whole world gets nuked maybe it would better off if everyone FUCKING DIES =__=


That's the spirit!

Actually, I'm not too worried about it because of this:

China Enters the WTO http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/1548866.stm

China probably feels that Iran's posturing is bad for business. And they have more nukes.

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Posted 10/17/09

Ryutai-Desk wrote:


DomFortress wrote:

Do you know why I refuse to even look at the so called "Holy Book"? When the book itself got nothing to do with how Iran became a nation under totalitarian democracy through obstructing human rights and with media blockade. Because that's not how Muslims conduct themselves in developed countries. And that Canadian Muslim sounds like he's got more love for his fellow Islamic women, than the Iranian Guardian Council have for me with their totalitarian democracy. Not their faith.


Of course. Because this thread was never talking about religion, you divert it yourself. I've explained about human rights and media blockade in previous post. If you can't accept it, then you're being ignorant and repeating same thing again and again.

You must be immediately type the 'war verses' while the verses mostly applies in the past, war time. That's why I hate ignorant atheist who only can attack religion from one side only. Well, if you insist, here is from your link:

Islam has recognized a certain amount of latitude in personal judgment and hence the sharp distinction between the Islamic rule in the Islamic faith. No-one is to be forced to embrace the Islamic faith; as we shall see presently, yet Islamic rule is to be established by all means.


It is well known that the Qur'an formally and repeatedly forbids to coerce or compel anybody to embrace Islam. The whole life of the Prophet shows that he sought liberty to preach his message. In his defensive or punitive wars, when he predominated, he compelled nobody to embrace Islam, but tolerated non-Muslims, Christians, Jews, Parsi’s in particular as subjects of the State. A very characteristic example is his letter to Heraclius; Byzantine emperor of the time. A Muslim ambassador was assassinated, in flagrant violation of international law, in the Byzantine territory. The letter that the Prophet wrote to the emperor is eloquent in this respect.

This passage envisages a recourse to arms with the following prerequisites, all else being unlawful in Islam.

(a) for the sake and in the path of God.
(b) in [the] case of defence.
(c) without least transgression.
(d) the right of belligerency includes killing wherever the enemy may be found, and may be turned out from places he occupies oppressively.
(e) no bloodshed in the vicinity of the House of God, except in self-defence.
(f) scrupulous observance of treaties and other contractual obligations, with regard to non-Muslims.
(g) avarice may be suicidal, and suicide is prohibited.


If you refuse, then that's your choice as we aren't obligated to tell you, moreover force you to convert. When I see your stance is only attacking religion without valid evidence. And without respect...


DomFortress wrote:

It's not their Iranian faith that made the Iranian Guardian Council to obtain nuclear technology, they made that clear. So it's you who failed to see that ultimately it's not their Islamic laws nor their NPT agreement that's causing the Iranians to obtain nuclear technology. While a few simple modifications on the Iranians' currently available domestic technology, can build an EMP device based on HANE maneuver. That's capable of rendering all electronics useless on a global scale.


you don't have any evidence that Iran has those HANE. While HANE was only tested and used before 1970.


DomFortress wrote:

So let's backtrack the current Iranian events in order to establish a precedent; who recently conducted an electronic countermeasure that's not of military objective? The answer: Iran.


China, Myammar, Russia, Honduras, Zimbabwe, etc.



For what purpose did that act served? The answer: to block international online journalism coverage on Iran during an Iranian political election.


To prevent provocation from western media, biased information and misleading news.



What happened after the Iranian political election? The answer: the hard-line Iranian conservatives won the political election and came to power for the second time.


As its people desired.



How did it happened? The answer: totalitarian democracy through obstructing human rights and with media blockade ever since 1979.


Dissatisfaction from Iranian people to reformist government that was unable to do anything in their 1st and 2nd period.


DomFortress wrote:

And now they can do it all over again, only the next time it can very well be with a HANE maneuver. When the Iranian president himself simply said to the nations of the world during the UN General Assembly, that the world just can't be what it is now. And what is the world that's not under totalitarian democracy but rather, heading towards globalization by uniting the people through technology?


Where is the evidence Iran has HANE? I think Iranian scientist don't have further knowledge about it. While only USA and USSR who had this maneuver.

The world shouldn't be under tyranny big nation who only can bullying weak countries, coward countries who can't do anything alone and fear make a deal of "The free global trading" from Africa countries and made injustice rules in IMF, OPEC...etc




My optimistic mind can allow me to see possibility, and that's probably why you liked me as a person. However, I do not like totalitarian democracy for what it is. And as long as you keep forcing totalitarian democracy under the pretense of your religion to me, I'll fight back.


Your ignorant mind don't have any capabilities to respect other people, instead spread hatred among religious people. However, I respect your way of life and intelligent for what it should be. As long as you keep accusing Iran and us under your ignorant of your 'optimistic' way and do not learn how to know the truth, I 'll keep face-palming.



Ignorant person without respect, repeating same things over and over again, using same old evidence to support your statement that actually backfired.

Arrogance person who can't accept others opinion, moreover insulting them without tolerant and to the kid that wayyy younger than him.

Prideful person who can't accept loss to 13 years old, realizing this he don't have any choice to argue back, except insulting her with childish way.

Conclusion: Arrogance person who has pitiful pride and think it's to embarrassing to loss to 13 years old girl. And instead, respecting her opinion, he underestimate her by saying disrespectful words in not elegant way.


If you want to bash people, keep it in elegant way. O Childish 31 years old.


Dude you have to understand when you debate with people who lose and proves absoutly nothing because all of their so called claims are based on accusations and nothing documented then they switch to, "Lets see how I can make this person look stupid rather then take my time and refute them." So they proceed with name calling to completly change the subject without having to effectively refute you. The problem is when they run into people who know this tactic and we call them out on it they lose. They cant present their facts effectively so they bail out. When you argue with people who choose ignorance over facts it is a complete waste of time. Good thing your smarter and sadly this guy will die ignorant make sure you dont.
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Posted 10/17/09

drizza wrote:


blancer wrote:

I can agree on that one: plenty of laws in Muslim countries in middle east have nothing to do with kur'an, but have a lot to do with tribal laws and customs of nomads in that area. That concerns every law made for women, and plenty of laws made for christians and jews (last few suras witch were added between the time the Prophet died and when they banned adding stuff to Kur'an in XII century). I am saying that as MA in religious cultures, and my Islam teacher was muftija (wtf in english I dont know) for 3 countries, and he told me so, that we must not mix Muslim customas and customs from middle east: those are totally different.
As for the rest of the stuff. Iran was one of the most advanced Muslim countries in the region, and US destroyed it, so whatever happens its their own mistake, especially since all this would not happen if they did not messed with that countries politics 30 or something years ago.
After all this debate I really dont care any more, since it is only Israel that is in real danger, and I can only hope that my or any other European country will not send troops there if the war begins, witch I really hope it will not. It is Israel - US - Iran problem. I am sure that whatever happens EU will sit in their comfy chairs and try to talk it out. No one outside Europe understands the psyhology and indoctrination of people on whose soil 2 bloody world wars were fought.


It really isnt a US problem and I cant even really say it is even an Israel problem also. Israel just wants to be the dominant country in that reason so she feels if a country is developing nuclear techonolgy they have to destroy it. To Israel they are the only ones allowed to have nuclear technology. They call the shots if they want to nuke an arab country so be it the arabs will have nothing to defend themselves with. As long as there is no standing arab army to match their might then can keep invading any arab country without any punishment from the UN because US will always be there to back their crimes. People are just over exaggerating Irans issues to sway you away from the real problems around the world with other countries. What Iran is doing right now (which is not really anything bad at all) is minor to what other countries are doing. But alas since he has a different view of the holocaust he is now the new hitler. With no proof of him wanting to actually kill all jews or develop a weapon to destroy Israel (as you can see on this thread no proof what so ever) they going to keep touting that to try to bring upon more sanctions against Iran who continues to do nothing but obide by the IEIA.

Now if Israel was to ever go to war with a country that can withstand her might you better believe the USA will die for that country and try its best to persuade Americans how important Israel interests are and how much greater it is then the USA. You are most defiantly right when you talk about the muslim countries that all comes from culture. Think about it here in the USA women didnt have equal rights as well untill later in the 1900's. They had to fight for it but are we blaming Christianity for this? People are just to damn ignorant they see one country and base that one countries actions and say thats how the whole religion teaches you to act. Hopefully the women will fight for their rights just like the women in the USA but thats not our problem though thats theirs. In the USA the women didnt recieve any military help from other nations to achieve their goals it was all from the inside.

Check this out the state of California is backrupt and our government wont give them a dime. Instead we rather continue to give Israel billions of free money, economic aid and military aid. Just who is more important here fellow Americans or Israel?


You are right, that is what I have been saying from the beginning: it is nobodys problem, leave Iran alone. I actually dont see any problem at all. So what even if some minor nuclear power rises again? At least there will be someone to counter Israel on equal grounds. In reality, I think no one is crazy enough to actually "push the button". With nuclear weapons it is all in balance of powers.
And the stuff you said about helping Israel, my country does something similar: our economy is the lowest of the low, but we are still giving millions to our "ethnic" neighbors in Bosnia. Fools, but that is politics for you.
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Posted 10/17/09

DomFortress wrote:

Read it again, since when did I ever used the word "war" or "weapon" in my last post? Just like the Iranian Guardian Council did say that their religion forbid nuclear weapons, but they didn't say no to devices based on nuclear technology like nuclear power plants for electricity, enrichment sites for nuclear fuels, radioactive isotopes for medicines, or a HANE that has zero nuclear fallout thereby it's none-lethal. And they can very well say those devices are "for the sake and in the path of God". And they can very well do so "To prevent provocation from western media, biased information and misleading news" that's undermining their God.

And to think you speak for the Iranian nuclear scientists, when "Some 700 Iranian engineers were trained in Russia". And compared to high-tech device such as a mid-range nuclear surface-to-surface missile, a HANE maneuver is a relatively low-tech device when Iran have all the basic components at their disposal(enriched nuclear fuels, explosives, rockets, and research data). Even I can rig one up for them.

Now don't you want to change the world with such low-tech method? When even modern military operations depend heavily on technology for logistics and communications. After all, it's no secret that you hate war so much, it's all that you care about. And best of all, Iran can make your dream come true. They are your heroes, your saviors. And you will say anything just like you're under a spellbind of hero-worship. As long as they can exact your revenge on war by any means necessary.


It because your link is directed to verses that explaining about war. Or do you even read your own link? Well, if that wasn't your intention, then on what purpose you post the link? Now I know, why every time you post your link, it always backfired to you... Thanks, though. Of course, that's how person who hold religion would do, as their way of life is based on God's path, therefore always trying to understand other people from another belief, ethnic, race, nation and all single individual on the world.

That is the truth, now have you got any evidence Iranian scientist were studying about HANE? While the agreement between Iran and Russia was only for Nuclear energy and fuel. Now from your link, I wanted to ask about some matters about Israel, the country who possess the REAL Nuclear Weapon:

The London daily said that Israel "is using hitmen, sabotage, front companies and double agents," to destroy any kind of nuclear weapon not being built in Iran. Additional security sources have reinforced that statement to say that "Israel is not working alone" on 'decapitation'.

The deaths of several figures in Iran nuclear program, including a scientist who died under mysterious circumstances in 2007 are now being reported.

Reuters was told last year by an intelligence source in the Middle East that Israel planned to target Iran nuclear scientists with letter bombs and anthrax-tainted packages and had set off explosions in Iran.


According to your source, Israel did assassination mission to Iran's scientist, with unacceptable reasons based on false accusation and baseless statement. Why they do that? This is clearly an attack plan to Iran. This is violating international laws. Why UN haven't put any sanctions to Israel who is clearly in possession of Nuclear weapon, violating human rights and attacking another country's figure without acceptable reasons?

Also, French President ,Sarkozy said irresponsible statement:

France President Sarkozy has stated that a nuclear-armed Iran would be "unacceptable" and that the only response was to tighten sanctions while being open to talks if Iran suspended nuclear activities.

"This initiative is the only one that can enable us to escape an alternative that I say is catastrophic: the Iran bomb or the bombing of Iran," he said, adding that it was the worst crisis facing the world.


See, they only want to talk after Iran suspend their nuclear activities. What kind of talk they're gonna to offer when they already demand unfair condition from begin with? Clearly, they don't even know how to talk and negotiate with other country, especially to Iran. While they already think of war even Iran itself do not have any intention to do it and Iran always offering talk again and again from years and years ago.


DomFortress wrote:

Now you bored me.

I don't care what you want to accomplish in the end, it's your method of totalitarian democracy through the institution of obstructing human rights with media blockade that I disagree. When self-empowering institutions such as wellness life style teachings and positive psychology cannot exist in a totalitarian democratic world led by elitists. After all, nobody want to be overpowered by their slaves.


I don't care what you think while you don't open your mind and see the truth. It's your method to living through the institution of destroying innocent human's lives with more baseless accusation that world disagree. When peaceful world such as equal rights amongst developing and developed countries do not exist in a tyranny democratic world led by heartless people. After all, nobody want to be live with cruel people that always think they are right while ignoring injured children dying on the street everyday.

Now you disappoint me.
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Posted 10/17/09

drizza wrote:

Dude you have to understand when you debate with people who lose and proves absoutly nothing because all of their so called claims are based on accusations and nothing documented then they switch to, "Lets see how I can make this person look stupid rather then take my time and refute them." So they proceed with name calling to completly change the subject without having to effectively refute you.

The problem is when they run into people who know this tactic and we call them out on it they lose. They cant present their facts effectively so they bail out. When you argue with people who choose ignorance over facts it is a complete waste of time. Good thing your smarter and sadly this guy will die ignorant make sure you dont.


Actually, it's quite fun whenever he divert the subject, he always fail when he did it with me. And all his links were support my argument, instead.. lol. What kind hearted person he is, lol. Btw, when you address me, you should call me 'cute little girl' than 'dude' haha ^^
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Posted 10/17/09 , edited 10/17/09
Lol my bad it is a bad habit. I didnt mean to call you a dude though just flies out when I address anyone even females in IRL.

BAck on topic his links supporterd many of my arguements as well lol answered some of his own questions to me.
Posted 10/17/09 , edited 10/17/09
And once again blancer, drizza, as well as Ryutai-Desk had felt for the same old trick; deceived by those they claimed as "unreliable"; a source released by the Israel News Agency.

As long as they are so feeble-minded and desperate that they're willing to believe anything, to the point that they would even believe in the counterintelligence from their enemy as facts. They lack sense of judgment as well as imagination.

As long as the Iranian Guardian Council claim that their God forbids nuclear weapons, they'll just call anything that they made based on nuclear technology simply as "devices". That's the Iranian totalitarian democracy as well as their nuclear ambition at work; the Iranian Guardian Council proclaiming everything that they do is in the name of their God. When nobody in their state should defy their God as long as their God's words as proclaimed by their Guardian Council are their legislation:

Totalitarian democracy is here intended to mean a system of government centred on the nation state and on the silent acceptance of its overall supremacism. This translates into:
- exclusive territorial sovereignty
The state arrogates to itself the topmost power over everything (e.g. rights of expropriation) and everybody (e.g. rights of imposition) within a specific territory. From the subjugation of native Americans to the destruction of the Chechnyan town of Grozny, exclusive territorial sovereignty has meant the crushing, by the central state, of any independent or slightly unruly entity.
- extensive decision-making sovereignty
The state, in a totalitarian democracy, has the power to intervene in relation to most of the aspects (almost the totality) concerning the life of individuals under its territorial jurisdiction. To justify this extensive power, totalitarian democracy has accepted the myth of the general will as the expression of the majority. It would be more correct to say that, through the myth of the general will, the individuals count for nil while the generals (i.e. the army élite, the political élite, the economic élite, etc.) count for everybody. The might of numbers (majority rule) becomes the right assigned to a few to impose wide ranging/all inclusive decisions.
In this respect, it is perhaps not pointless to remember that, in the past, Socrates and Jesus Christ, among others, have been condemned to death by the will of the majority or by representatives of the majority. In more recent times, overwhelming majorities have supported fascism, national socialism and communism (to refer to the best known cases) or have been more or less willing accomplices of the atrocities perpetrated by the state rulers in the name of the majority.
Throughout history, when exclusive and extensive power has been conferred on anyone (be it a single person or an organization) under whatever justification (be it the will of God or the general will) crimes and misdeeds have, almost inexorably, followed.
In the second half of the XX century, many states have lost some of their most aggressive features but they still remain big organizations with the pretence of monopolistic power that they try to exert in an absolute way. In other words, the cosmetic changes towards a more liberal state of affairs, still cover a totalitarian democracy whose real brutal face comes to the fore in situations of crisis, reaffirming its power through the usual armoury of statism (i.e. bombing, blasting, beating).


They're describing the UN as a form of totalitarian democracy led by the UN Security Council, but they forget that the UN Security Council are not absolute. When member states of UN can interject and overrule the Security Council's decisions and actions through majority.

Not only that, Iran did tried to influence the UN Security Council by having diplomatic, nuclear, energy resources, international counterbalance, and not to mention military relationships with one of their member state: China. And due to no small part of Ryutai-Desk's contribution during our discussions, we know exactly what she thinks about China and their policies:

Ryutai-Desk wrote:

DomFortress wrote:

Do you know when was the last time that such media blockade was used to restrict the world from knowing the truth?

❀=✿

I know about it. China always used this method in order to not spreading their action towards independence moves across Tibet and restriction in Uighur. Same goes to Myammar. They closed down media network for not spreading their brutality to the rest of the world. They are worse than Iran for closing media network.

That's why I wonder, why China has right to possess Nuclear Weapon from begin with? They are oppressing human rights, killing everyone who oppose the government and its relation with North Korea make me realize how injustice and biased the world has become.

Ryutai-Desk wrote:
Iran is conservative country and set its rule based on religion. Almost all develop countries are like this, south american countries, africa's countries, China, Russia and many parts of Asia are like this, moreover Middle-east. However, they do not object international laws by following the rules and standard by IAEA, International Agency.

It's their laws, why bother to interfere? World should focus more on violation of human rights in Gaza, Iraq, Afghanistan and China.

Ryutai-Desk wrote:
Unless you forget, as giant country in Asia, China is also one of 5 permanent member of Security Council of UN that has Veto right; one of founding member of United Nation that SHOULD advocate equal human rights. How the UN itself act in case of Tibet and Uighur?

Or are you telling you can't respect other belief that promoting peace and talk?

Ryutai-Desk wrote:
That's why, If there is a suspicious ideology and it's being considered as a threat to government and would causing instability(Chaos) within their society, it is normal to prevent it by what most current government did. Imprisonment to the culprit. It is a part of security that any government would do. It's very contradict to those nations who will kill their opposition when they have chance to do it.. I'd say China as example. They did it in Tibet and Uighur. Oh,don't forget they also possess Nuclear Weapon.It's great, right? ......... The World's Hypocrisy.

Ryutai-Desk wrote:
True, Iran has been developing their missile capabilities. Same goes to most all nations on the world. Do you have any evidence that their missiles are capable to carry Nuclear Warhead? If not, then it's baseless statement as always. I've read your sources but what I found just America and Soviet who are developing their nuclear missiles and now China 'secretly' test it. Well, it's open secret. So it's not baseless statement.
Oh snap!

C'mon man!

Don't call it a "comeback"!
I been here for years!
Rockin my peers and puttin suckas in fear!
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Posted 10/17/09

DomFortress wrote:

And once again blancer, drizza, as well as Ryutai-Desk had felt for the same old trick; deceived by those they claimed as "unreliable"; a source released by the Israel News Agency.

As long as they are so feeble-minded and desperate that they're willing to believe anything, to the point that they would even believe in the counterintelligence from their enemy as facts. They lack sense of judgment as well as imagination.


lol, not really. Until the source could tell us valuable information with trustworthy news that's based on real incident, we're okay with it. After all, they are not violating Journalism Ethics you praise so much, right? It's rude, right... When you post your source, then your opponents aren't willing to check it by deny the source you've been given and they just deny it by saying it's not reliable. While we doing the opposite, by respect your source, check it, read it carefully and made our discussion becoming more level-up, lol.

We're only follow what you say by using your links, or you don't want we use your links? Then, it's not good discussion when we can't support your opinion without reliable sources. Well, in this case, your links supporting my opinions so far, thanks for that.

How do you define feeble-minded and desperate while we respect your opinion and bother to using your sources to check your credibility while we read it words by words and found flaws in your source instead. You lack sense of reading as well as intelligent, you keep providing us sources that support us, lol.


DomFortress wrote:

As long as the Iranian Guardian Council claim that their God forbids nuclear weapons, they'll just call anything that they made based on nuclear technology simply as "devices". That's the Iranian totalitarian democracy as well as their nuclear ambition at work; the Iranian Guardian Council proclaiming everything that they do is in the name of their God. When nobody in their state should defy their God as long as their God's words as proclaimed by their Guardian Council are their legislation:


They're describing the UN as a form of totalitarian democracy led by the UN Security Council, but they forget that the UN Security Council are not absolute. When member states of UN can interject and overrule the Security Council's decisions and actions through majority.

Not only that, Iran did tried to influence the UN Security Council by having diplomatic, nuclear, energy resources, international counterbalance, and not to mention military relationships with one of their member state: China.


Well, with Veto Rights, that absolute definition still vague. Only 5 founding members who can reject decisions, not the other members which usually developing countries in Africa and others who do not agree with their decision but have to follow it because they don't have Veto Rights. After all, if one of founding members reject decisions with its Veto Rights, any great decision that came out will be rejected easily without any explanation needed from the country who use Veto Right. Now, what's the definition of Totalitarian Democracy again?

Of course, this is applies to all countries who conducted meetings in Foreign Affair and reach their agreement. It just common in international affair. Same goes to Israel who always 'lobbying' US for ignoring their nuclear, right? This is some Foreign Affair of Political Development Archive , maybe you'd like to read it to know about it more.


DomFortress wrote:

And due to no small part of Ryutai-Desk's contribution during our discussions, we know exactly what she thinks about China and their policies:



Oh snap!

C'mon man!

Don't call it a "comeback"!
I been here for years!
Rockin my peers and puttin suckas in fear!


lol again.
Of course it's weird, right?

You said, Iran is violating human rights whereas nothing compared to China(possessing Nuclear Weapon). After all, Iran;s act was based on their belief and it's being supported by majority of their people. While, China, they expressing their act by violent and did military aggression to minority ethnic.

You said, Iran is oppressing minority's religion whereas it's not true when your source said, Iranian Muslims are kinder to Iranian Jews than to Iranian Muslims. Compared to Israel(possessing Nuclear Weapon illegally), oppressing Palestinian people in Gaza by blockade them and make them suffering by shortage of water, electricity ..etc

You said, Iran is Totalitarian Democracy whereas it's not, while the conservative government give them more hope than reformist government and it's decided by majority in election. Iranian's people who support government is larger that people who oppose them, we can see it in dispute during election. While, China totally ignoring their people's right to vote and choose their own leader, as they are the truly Totalitarian Democracy by only having one party in this largest country in Asia. Same goes to Russia.

You said, Iran is ilegally developing Nuclear Missile with HANE without any evidence whereas I doubt Iranian scientist even know what is HANE when the only nations who can develop and make this high-tech only USA and Soviet Union. While, now China and Russia hiding their military capabilities by not telling International their military budget and absolutely prohibit anyone entering their military facility. It's make sense when we suspect them developing HANE than Iran, developing country in middle-east.

Why focusing Iran, when we can see the clear violation and suspicious other country? Oh, it's because of Worlds Deception, after all. No wonder... Or because of US always right?

Due to no small part of DomFortress's contribution during our discussion, we know exactly how he always change the topic, saying irrelevant things about Iran based on false accusation and always failed when he talks it with me.

Get a job, Nosy People or Off the topic?
Posted 10/17/09

Ryutai-Desk wrote:
Due to no small part of DomFortress's contribution during our discussion, we know exactly how he always change the topic, saying irrelevant things about Iran based on false accusation and always failed when he talks it with me.

Get a job, Nosy People or Off the topic?

Cute. When personal attack can damage one's pride, if only this wasn't the internet.

When Iran made a friend of China, while China still respect the US. Therefore I don't see how you can disrespect both China and US, but praise Iran. Not to mention while China also befriended Israel in order to show favoritism towards the US, at the same time they also oppose outside interference on Middle Eastern reform.

So Iran can rely on protection from China; a member of the UN Security Council who are also playing on both side of the fence. But you're not gonna comment on that. Well I can understand that. After all, all's fair in love and hate/war. When I cannot argue with you, who constantly being bias by switching sides. Just like China is.
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Posted 10/17/09

DomFortress wrote:

Cute. When personal attack can damage one's pride, if only this wasn't the internet.

When Iran made a friend of China, while China still respect the US. Therefore I don't see how you can disrespect both China and US, but praise Iran. Not to mention while China also befriended Israel in order to show favoritism towards the US, at the same time they also oppose outside interference on Middle Eastern reform.

So Iran can rely on protection from China; a member of the UN Security Council who are also playing on both side of the fence. But you're not gonna comment on that. Well I can understand that. After all, all's fair in love and hate/war. When I cannot argue with you, who constantly being bias by switching sides. Just like China is.


Yes, when I only do it whenever you did it first. I only give it back to you.

Say who I disrespect China? China trying to make friend with North Korea with further talk not further sanctions, the only thing being forgotten thus important in 6 talk with North Korea. I know they wanted to not being biased just because US said so. Same goes to Iran, China and Russia do not see any violations by Iran because they've already fulfilled IAEA demand and allowing UN's inspector to visit their nuclear plant.

Russia also supported Iran. Well, because of clever political move by Obama to not build Nuclear Defense in East Europe, Russia most likely would soften its support to Iran. It's all have political interest to each other, same goes to China. China holds many obligation from US banks, that's why China has strength in this political motive and do not try to appease US, therefore China use justice towards Iran, not political interest.

After all, it's politic. All based on self-interest by big nations. When you cannot see that, who constantly being bias by ignoring the fact. Just like those evil nations.

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