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Iran’s Nuclear Ambition
Posted 10/17/09

Ryutai-Desk wrote:


DomFortress wrote:

Cute. When personal attack can damage one's pride, if only this wasn't the internet.

When Iran made a friend of China, while China still respect the US. Therefore I don't see how you can disrespect both China and US, but praise Iran. Not to mention while China also befriended Israel in order to show favoritism towards the US, at the same time they also oppose outside interference on Middle Eastern reform.

So Iran can rely on protection from China; a member of the UN Security Council who are also playing on both side of the fence. But you're not gonna comment on that. Well I can understand that. After all, all's fair in love and hate/war. When I cannot argue with you, who constantly being bias by switching sides. Just like China is.


Yes, when I only do it whenever you did it first. I only give it back to you.

Say who I disrespect China? China trying to make friend with North Korea with further talk not further sanctions, the only thing being forgotten thus important in 6 talk with North Korea. I know they wanted to not being biased just because US said so. Same goes to Iran, China and Russia do not see any violations by Iran because they've already fulfilled IAEA demand and allowing UN's inspector to visit their nuclear plant.

Russia also supported Iran. Well, because of clever political move by Obama to not build Nuclear Defense in East Europe, Russia most likely would soften its support to Iran. It's all have political interest to each other, same goes to China. China holds many obligation from US banks, that's why China has strength in this political motive and do not try to appease US, therefore China use justice towards Iran, not political interest.

After all, it's politic. All based on self-interest by big nations. When you cannot see that, who constantly being bias by ignoring the fact. Just like those evil nations.


My resolution had always been clear; I want Iran to stop enriching and stockpiling enriched nuclear fuel, when they keep saying bad things about other nations that aren't true, while they hide themselves with their own media blockade. I don't care just who did Iran managed to befriend with, or what UN treaty that they signed as a member of the UN. When what Iran say or do had nothing to do with official UN business, they are welcome to leave.

At lease both China and Russia are still showing their respect to the rest of the UN, that they too want Iran to stop enriching and stockpiling enriched nuclear fuel.
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Posted 10/17/09


Dude I cant believe that you would provide me with that link but whatever to turn the flame away and be civil what do you purpose happen to Iran?
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Posted 10/17/09

DomFortress wrote:

My resolution had always been clear; I want Iran to stop enriching and stockpiling enriched nuclear fuel, when they keep saying bad things about other nations that aren't true, while they hide themselves with their own media blockade. I don't care just who did Iran managed to befriend with, or what UN treaty that they signed as a member of the UN. When what Iran say or do had nothing to do with official UN business, they are welcome to leave.

At lease both China and Russia are still showing their respect to the rest of the UN, that they too want Iran to stop enriching and stockpiling enriched nuclear fuel.


Yes, resolution that really opposite to the fact. Iran doesn't have any evidence to develop Nuclear Weapon. It's all countries rights to develop themselves for Nuclear Energy by sign the Treaty and following IAEA procedure. or because you and them do not want Iran becoming more reliable for its own sake? I've explained why Iran did that. Read it few pages back.

You don't care because you don't have enough love? or simply don't have any intention to form trust among us? And do not want to talk about peace, only saying baseless statement? When Iran always being prepared to talks head to head to any leader from any nation about its policy and nuclear facility.

Read newspaper or read few pages back, since when Russia and China wanted iran to stop its nuclear energy program in current political condition? Well, those some UN participant seems do not show respect to Iran at UN Meeting in April 20 2009 by condemn him, wearing clown wig and leaving the hall when he's still talking.


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Posted 10/17/09

drizza wrote:

Dude I cant believe that you would provide me with that link but whatever to turn the flame away and be civil what do you purpose happen to Iran?


If people like him leading a country, the world will be in Doom. Like current world, haha~
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Posted 10/17/09

Ryutai-Desk wrote:


drizza wrote:

Dude I cant believe that you would provide me with that link but whatever to turn the flame away and be civil what do you purpose happen to Iran?


If people like him leading a country, the world will be in Doom. Like current world, haha~


Of course peace talks would be non existent, wars would be the only solution. Anyone who thinks differently should be smeared, casted out, or even jailed. People must believe in what he preaches or face the dire consequences. Yep thats the reality of most neo cons. I still cant believe that Israel link as many humanitarian and UN resolutions they broke he posted a link about them and at the same time is trying to preach about how to treat people. Israel is the last country to refrence about human rights.
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Posted 10/17/09 , edited 10/17/09

drizza wrote:

Of course peace talks would be non existent, wars would be the only solution. Anyone who thinks differently should be smeared, casted out, or even jailed. People must believe in what he preaches or face the dire consequences. Yep thats the reality of most neo cons. I still cant believe that Israel link as many humanitarian and UN resolutions they broke he posted a link about them and at the same time is trying to preach about how to treat people. Israel is the last country to refrence about human rights.


Yes, sadly, because of political interest and motives. They always ignoring it. And keep oppressing a nation that actually have been following International Laws.

Here's the link from SeraphAlford that actually supporting my argument in his topic, lol. About Israel's violation from UN.
http://unispal.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF/0/017EEFB458011C9D05256722005E5499
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Posted 10/17/09

Ryutai-Desk wrote:


drizza wrote:

Of course peace talks would be non existent, wars would be the only solution. Anyone who thinks differently should be smeared, casted out, or even jailed. People must believe in what he preaches or face the dire consequences. Yep thats the reality of most neo cons. I still cant believe that Israel link as many humanitarian and UN resolutions they broke he posted a link about them and at the same time is trying to preach about how to treat people. Israel is the last country to refrence about human rights.


Yes, sadly, because of political interest and motives. They always ignoring it. And keep oppressing a nation that actually have been following International Laws.

Here's the link from SeraphAlford that actually supporting my argument in his topic, lol. About Israel's violation from UN.
http://unispal.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF/0/017EEFB458011C9D05256722005E5499


Lol pretty much I only read half it but it defiantly talking about how they invaded Jordan so far and the infrastructure they destroyed. Similar to the infrastruce they destroy in Palestine. Good night my friend I am kinda tipsy and need some rest lol.
Posted 10/18/09

drizza wrote:



Dude I cant believe that you would provide me with that link but whatever to turn the flame away and be civil what do you purpose happen to Iran?

Such is the Art of War through counterintelligence, a rather useful tactic invented by my Chinese ancestors. Don't you think so?

I don't care a rat's ass what Iran want to do with themselves. As long as China get their oil from Iran, their current second largest oil supplier and soon to be first, China don't care what happens to Iran without enriched nuclear fuel. Since Iran can get enriched nuclear fuel from their dealing with Russia, who don't want Iran to continue enriching nuclear fuel themselves. Thus make US, UK, and France not finding a reason to sanction Iran, when it's impossible to even make a nuclear device other than nuclear power plant with reactor grade enriched nuclear fuel; a nuclear device that's peaceful to have.


Ryutai-Desk wrote:


DomFortress wrote:

My resolution had always been clear; I want Iran to stop enriching and stockpiling enriched nuclear fuel, when they keep saying bad things about other nations that aren't true, while they hide themselves with their own media blockade. I don't care just who did Iran managed to befriend with, or what UN treaty that they signed as a member of the UN. When what Iran say or do had nothing to do with official UN business, they are welcome to leave.

At lease both China and Russia are still showing their respect to the rest of the UN, that they too want Iran to stop enriching and stockpiling enriched nuclear fuel.


Yes, resolution that really opposite to the fact. Iran doesn't have any evidence to develop Nuclear Weapon. It's all countries rights to develop themselves for Nuclear Energy by sign the Treaty and following IAEA procedure. or because you and them do not want Iran becoming more reliable for its own sake? I've explained why Iran did that. Read it few pages back.

You don't care because you don't have enough love? or simply don't have any intention to form trust among us? And do not want to talk about peace, only saying baseless statement? When Iran always being prepared to talks head to head to any leader from any nation about its policy and nuclear facility.

Read newspaper or read few pages back, since when Russia and China wanted iran to stop its nuclear energy program in current political condition? Well, those some UN participant seems do not show respect to Iran at UN Meeting in April 20 2009 by condemn him, wearing clown wig and leaving the hall when he's still talking.

As long as Iran don't enrich nor stockpile enriched nuclear fuel that's not suitable for nuclear power plants. They can do whatever that they want. The Iranian president can keep talking, and people like me are not obligated to listen because if you haven't notice; not every Iranians listen to him either. When it's my rights not listening to who I don't believe in. Just like how I want to dress myself and wear my hair is my freedom.

And about your claim on both China and Russia view about Iran nuclear program, China only supply Iran with equipments for nuclear enrichment, while Russia only supply Iran with low-enriched nuclear fuel for their nuclear power plant. When both China and Russia do not want Iran to enrich nuclear fuel themselves.
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Posted 10/18/09 , edited 10/18/09

DomFortress wrote:

Such is the Art of War through counterintelligence, a rather useful tactic invented by my Chinese ancestors. Don't you think so?

I don't care a rat's ass what Iran want to do with themselves. As long as China get their oil from Iran, their current second largest oil supplier and soon to be first, China don't care what happens to Iran without enriched nuclear fuel. Since Iran can get enriched nuclear fuel from their dealing with Russia, who don't want Iran to continue enriching nuclear fuel themselves. Thus make US, UK, and France not finding a reason to sanction Iran, when it's impossible to even make a nuclear device other than nuclear power plant with reactor grade enriched nuclear fuel; a nuclear device that's peaceful to have.


Cool, have you actually learned your own ancestor to use such 'Art of War' counterintelligence? It's not effective against me.

That's why you should leave them alone when you don't care about them. Contradicting your own words when you've been diverting the topic and talking about Iran's society and their politics? Such a counterintelligence Art you have there. How do you know China doesn't care about it? When they didn't want another sanctions to be out to Iran. Russia is in loss when Iran doesn't depend on them again to produce nuclear oil, that's why the motive are economy.

That's why US, UK and France's statement are baseless and allegation. Thus ignoring IAEA, the International Agency.


DomFortress wrote:

As long as Iran don't enrich nor stockpile enriched nuclear fuel that's not suitable for nuclear power plants. They can do whatever that they want. The Iranian president can keep talking, and people like me are not obligated to listen because if you haven't notice; not every Iranians listen to him either. When it's my rights not listening to who I don't believe in. Just like how I want to dress myself and wear my hair is my freedom.


Well, who are you anyway? We don't even care about your statement that only based on your selfishness.
However, Iranian president keep talking to ensure the world that their nuclear are for peaceful purpose, only ignorant people who doesn't want to listen or even check it themselves before make baseless statement that could lead to war. Of course, he has opposition after all, every country have it. But majority of Iranian people has chosen and entrusted Iran into this president.

In this current situation of economy, we don't have time even when you lost your job or jump from building, that's your freedom anyway. When you died, only a single lives lost. When the world ignoring devil's statement, thousand of innocent lives will dead.


DomFortress wrote:

And about your claim on both China and Russia view about Iran nuclear program, China only supply Iran with equipments for nuclear enrichment, while Russia only supply Iran with low-enriched nuclear fuel for their nuclear power plant. When both China and Russia do not want Iran to enrich nuclear fuel themselves.


I doubt that, maybe it's right for economy reasons, but not now. When China and Russia make opposite stance against further sanctions. Your sources don't show or prove anything that both Russia and China want Iran to stop their enrichment. Instead:

Russia has delivered its first shipment of nuclear fuel to a reactor it is helping to build at Bushehr in Iran. The two sides reached agreement last week on a schedule to finish building the plant after years of delays.

Atomstroiexport said the containers of fuel had been inspected and sealed before delivery by the UN's nuclear watchdog, the International Atomic Energy Agency. The full delivery will take up to two months, Atomstroiexport said. The fuel is lowly-enriched uranium which Russia says cannot be used in a nuclear weapon.


Well, even though Russia and China do not want Iran to enrich their nuclear, who the heck do they think they are? Wnat to put sanctions to Iran? Iran has been under tight sanction from begin with. After all, rights to have Nuclear plant is not through UN Founding Member, but through UN itself and procedure from IAEA. Could care less what Russia and China think when every country has right to have nuclear energy.
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Posted 10/18/09 , edited 10/18/09


I am connecting the dots here. You remember the Russia/Georgia conflict recently well as a result of that conflict while Bush was in office we decided to build anti missle defence in Poland as , "protection from Iran." Russia knew damn well that was for them and they was screaming at us to disable it. Enter Obama he disables it and makes Russia happy. Now it is said to believe as a deal for disabling this missle defence system Russia should cooperate on helping put sanctions on Iran. Now that we have Russia, China is the next country we should talk to. Notice how the media talks about Obama being very close to the chinese president. I believe he is trying is darnest to persuade China next. They say Obama is the silent hand of Bush. He is a young good looking man, he can make good speeches, the world likes him, the only thing the world cant see is how he silently continuing bush pollicies. To me it would be wrong to put sanctions on Iran for doing absoultely nothing. Only Israel and the USA is worried about this problem and they both have nuclear weapons.
Posted 10/18/09 , edited 10/18/09

Ryutai-Desk wrote:


DomFortress wrote:

Such is the Art of War through counterintelligence, a rather useful tactic invented by my Chinese ancestors. Don't you think so?

I don't care a rat's ass what Iran want to do with themselves. As long as China get their oil from Iran, their current second largest oil supplier and soon to be first, China don't care what happens to Iran without enriched nuclear fuel. Since Iran can get enriched nuclear fuel from their dealing with Russia, who don't want Iran to continue enriching nuclear fuel themselves. Thus make US, UK, and France not finding a reason to sanction Iran, when it's impossible to even make a nuclear device other than nuclear power plant with reactor grade enriched nuclear fuel; a nuclear device that's peaceful to have.


Cool, have you actually learned your own ancestor to use such 'Art of War' counterintelligence? It's not effective against me.

That's why you should leave them alone when you don't care about them. Contradicting your own words when you've been diverting the topic and talking about Iran's society and their politics? Such a counterintelligence Art you have there. How do you know China doesn't care about it? When they didn't want another sanctions to be out to Iran. Russia is in loss when Iran doesn't depend on them again to produce nuclear oil, that's why the motive are economy.

That's why US, UK and France's statement are baseless and allegation. Thus ignoring IAEA, the International Agency.


DomFortress wrote:

As long as Iran don't enrich nor stockpile enriched nuclear fuel that's not suitable for nuclear power plants. They can do whatever that they want. The Iranian president can keep talking, and people like me are not obligated to listen because if you haven't notice; not every Iranians listen to him either. When it's my rights not listening to who I don't believe in. Just like how I want to dress myself and wear my hair is my freedom.


Well, who are you anyway? We don't even care about your statement that only based on your selfishness.
However, Iranian president keep talking to ensure the world that their nuclear are for peaceful purpose, only ignorant people who doesn't want to listen or even check it themselves before make baseless statement that could lead to war. Of course, he has opposition after all, every country have it. But majority of Iranian people has chosen and entrusted Iran into this president.

In this current situation of economy, we don't have time even when you lost your job or jump from building, that's your freedom anyway. When you died, only a single lives lost. When the world ignoring devil's statement, thousand of innocent lives will dead.


DomFortress wrote:

And about your claim on both China and Russia view about Iran nuclear program, China only supply Iran with equipments for nuclear enrichment, while Russia only supply Iran with low-enriched nuclear fuel for their nuclear power plant. When both China and Russia do not want Iran to enrich nuclear fuel themselves.


I doubt that, maybe it's right for economy reasons, but not now. When China and Russia make opposite stance against further sanctions. Your sources don't show or prove anything that both Russia and China want Iran to stop their enrichment. Instead:

Russia has delivered its first shipment of nuclear fuel to a reactor it is helping to build at Bushehr in Iran. The two sides reached agreement last week on a schedule to finish building the plant after years of delays.

Atomstroiexport said the containers of fuel had been inspected and sealed before delivery by the UN's nuclear watchdog, the International Atomic Energy Agency. The full delivery will take up to two months, Atomstroiexport said. The fuel is lowly-enriched uranium which Russia says cannot be used in a nuclear weapon.


Well, even though Russia and China do not want Iran to enrich their nuclear, who the heck do they think they are? Wnat to put sanctions to Iran? Iran has been under tight sanction from begin with. After all, rights to have Nuclear plant is not through UN Founding Member, but through UN itself and procedure from IAEA. Could care less what Russia and China think when every country has right to have nuclear energy.

Now do tell me, is that your love or your hatred that compelled you to say those things about me? When all is fair in love and hate.

And that's why you'll never understand me, when you simply incapable of love such as you are.

Not only that, you let your hatred warped your senses, so that when you cherry-picked my source, you couldn't even see this:

Russia urged Iran to stop enriching uranium, saying there was no longer any need.

But a senior Iranian official said his country would not halt uranium enrichment under any circumstances, Reuters news agency said.

He said the Iranian use of Chinese companies was a growing trend.

Wirtz added that the firm in this case was probably not aware it was being used to further Iran's nuclear programme. However, another Chinese company was charged in a New York court yesterday with knowingly selling missile and nuclear technology to Iran.

Li Feng Wei and his company were indicted on 118 counts of fraud and conspiracy to supply Iran with equipment banned under a UN embargo.

David Albright, the head of the Institute for Science and International Security, said: "China is a huge hole in the system. It needs help to implement its own controls."
In order to further conceal their nuclear enrichment program, Iran used Chinese engineering companies as fronts and loopholes for their nuclear black market. When Iran were already under strict nuclear sanctions by the UN in 2006:

The resolution demands that Tehran end all uranium enrichment work, which can produce fuel for nuclear plants as well as for bombs.

The vote by the 15-member council took place exactly two months after Britain, France and Germany first introduced a draft resolution proposing sanctions.

The draft resolution was amended several times after objections from both the Russians and Chinese.

But after parts of the resolution were watered down, both Russia and China - who have close financial ties with Iran - backed the proposals.
Of course, I'll be once again expecting to hear your hateful comments because I love you. When I don't care about Iran because I don't love them nor hate them, while I'm angry at what they did is wrong.


drizza wrote:



I am connecting the dots here. You remember the Russia/Georgia conflict recently well as a result of that conflict while Bush was in office we decided to build anti missle defence in Poland as , "protection from Iran." Russia knew damn well that was for them and they was screaming at us to disable it. Enter Obama he disables it and makes Russia happy. Now it is said to believe as a deal for disabling this missle defence system Russia should cooperate on helping put sanctions on Iran. Now that we have Russia, China is the next country we should talk to. Notice how the media talks about Obama being very close to the chinese president. I believe he is trying is darnest to persuade China next. They say Obama is the silent hand of Bush. He is a young good looking man, he can make good speeches, the world likes him, the only thing the world cant see is how he silently continuing bush pollicies. To me it would be wrong to put sanctions on Iran for doing absoultely nothing. Only Israel and the USA is worried about this problem and they both have nuclear weapons.
Still think that Iran did nothing wrong? When they obviously broke the 2006 UN nuclear sanctions with their nuclear black market, and hid an underground nuclear enrichment site from IAEA until 2002.

Besides, if Iran was friendly with Israel to begin with, do you think they should be hiding anything regarding their nuclear program at all? When they're obviously a member state under the NPT just like the US, while Israel is not.
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Posted 10/19/09

DomFortress wrote:

Now do tell me, is that your love or your hatred that compelled you to say those things about me? When all is fair in love and hate. And that's why you'll never understand me, when you simply incapable of love such as you are.

Not only that, you let your hatred warped your senses, so that when you cherry-picked my source, you couldn't even see this:



It wasn't for me, nor from my love or hate. All of them were from your own arrogance based on your last statement when you said your irresponsible statement by saying "I don't care a rat's ass what Iran want to do with themselves.", "They can do whatever that they want. The Iranian president can keep talking. and people like me are not obligated to listen", "When it's my rights not listening to who I don't believe in.".
Isn't this just selfish? Not willing to understand and listening Iran's effort to embrace all nations and always ready to talk head to head to make deeper understanding about its nuclear.

Because of your irresponsible statement, I said those careless statement too. By saying that meant, "If you don't want to listen, then leave this matter. We don't need ignorant people who can't form trust, tolerance and love between us. Instead, you make destruction and make a peace deal and Memorandum of Understanding." that's why I said, who are you anyway?
Don't want to listen? Leave, save your energy. Want to listen? Come and discuss it together without being biased.

of course, you don't understand my love. Because your form of love is different. My love is to embrace all nations on the world regardless their stance, whether left or right, as long as they're willing to cooperate and contribute to any deal, including nuclear programme and peace. Meanwhile, your love is only based on baseless statement and merely accusing another nation for having nuclear that have been following IAEA regulations. So, what kind of love you have, when you don't even want to listen to Iran?

I've said it in my previous post that Russia has no power to stop Iran's intention to make Nuclear Power when they've fulfilled IAEA regulations. Well, even though Russia and China do not want Iran to enrich their nuclear, who the heck do they think they are? Want to put sanctions to Iran? Iran has been under tight sanction from begin with. After all, rights to have Nuclear plant is not through UN Founding Member, but through UN itself and procedure from IAEA. Could care less what Russia and China think when every country has right to have nuclear energy.


DomFortress wrote:

In order to further conceal their nuclear enrichment program, Iran used Chinese engineering companies as fronts and loopholes for their nuclear black market. When Iran were already under strict nuclear sanctions by the UN in 2006:


The resolution demands that Tehran end all uranium enrichment work, which can produce fuel for nuclear plants as well as for bombs.

The vote by the 15-member council took place exactly two months after Britain, France and Germany first introduced a draft resolution proposing sanctions.

The draft resolution was amended several times after objections from both the Russians and Chinese.

But after parts of the resolution were watered down, both Russia and China - who have close financial ties with Iran - backed the proposals.


Of course, I'll be once again expecting to hear your hateful comments because I love you. When I don't care about Iran because I don't love them nor hate them, while I'm angry at what they did is wrong.


Then, UN should also questioning China for agreeing to cooperate with Iran. Why they let loose to Russia and China, while both nations also helping Iran to build Nuclear Facility? Because of political influence in UN Security Council? It's not fair, if UN only put sanctions to Iran, while Russia and China were working together.

It's not hatred, that was based on your irresponsible statement based on your personal opinion. You don't want to listen to Iran, then you don't have right to oppose them. Because Iran has rights to give explanation to the world of their nuclear, then we listen them, analyze the matters deeply and make understanding from both sides based on expert's analysis. Not because of personal opinion and political interest, that's why this problem won't be solved forever unless, they really have will to talk to each other.

Here is the Draft of Consideration to launch Nuclear Programme. US and Europe should talk to Iran peacefully based on this draft and IAEA. Not merely accusing them.



DomFortress wrote:


drizza wrote:

To me it would be wrong to put sanctions on Iran for doing absolutely nothing.


Still think that Iran did nothing wrong? When they obviously broke the 2006 UN nuclear sanctions with their nuclear black market, and hid an underground nuclear enrichment site from IAEA until 2002.

Besides, if Iran was friendly with Israel to begin with, do you think they should be hiding anything regarding their nuclear program at all? When they're obviously a member state under the NPT just like the US, while Israel is not.


You still keep repeating the same thing. Read again.

Iran is under no legal obligation to provide the information until 180-days before the introduction of nuclear material into the site. THAT is the applicable standard, and there's no evidence that Iran has violated that standard.

In the past, as part of Iran's ill-fated negotiations with the Eu-3, Iran agreed to TEMPORARILY provide such information quicker -- however when the negotiations fell apart Iran returned to abiding ONLY by its strict legal obligations.

The bottom line is that Iran has NOT "broken rules" and is in fact abiding by them by disclosing this site. Furthermost, this site is not a threat since it isn't even operational yet, and once it becomes operational it will be under IAEA safeguards since Iran declared it. And finally, it is PILOT enrichment site which means it can't be used to mass produce enriched uranium for bombs.

In fact, Iran's enrichment program as a whole was NEVER a secret and was widely announced on national radio in the 1980s
.

You still don't understand that NPT is biding all nations to ensure peaceful purpose of their nuclear, ease the tensions between nations and to accept safeguards from IAEA.
Here is the list of Nation that reported have nuclear power and their obligations to follow IAEA.
http://www.world-nuclear.org/info/inf102.html

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Posted 10/19/09 , edited 10/19/09

Ryutai-Desk wrote:
I've already explained in few pages that Iran HAS BEEN following IAEA. They did not lie because of "In accordance with Article 42 of Iran's Safeguards Agreement, and Code 3.1 of the General Part of the Subsidiary Arrangements (also known as the "additional protocol")." Should read it carefully.

Why Pakistan is categorized as a threat, while India and Israel are not? Who define the threats? Not because of political reasons, right? It's hypocrite when US was the one who give Pakistan Nuclear Weapon.

India and Pakistan would vanishing each other if they use Nuclear Weapon to each of them if they can't re-conciliate their relationship. That's what we feared.


Here is a link that will explain how Iran has violated the agreement http://www.carnegieendowment.org/publications/index.cfm?fa=view&id=23884. They have violated the treaty, and not just the IAEA but the NPT. they are the ones who lied about their program and kept a second site in secret.

Pakistan isn't a threat at the moment, the threat is if the Taliban gains control of the country and thus gains power over their nukes. I believe I stated that in my previous post. The US trusts Pakistan to some extent, we are at peace with them and have no reason to believe that the current government would launch a nuke. The threat is the instability with the uprising of Talibani militants trying to take over the country. In fact, Pakistan is trying to get rid of the Taliban as well, the US recently gave them some aid money to help them do that and to protect themselves from the terrorists. Here are some news links http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,568461,00.html http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/oct/17/pakistan-sends-troops-against-taliban


Well, those individuals are from US big company. Anyone might suspect, the business deal are only with US company and US government, not to Iraqi people. Never heard Iraqi people has benefit from oil, except the corrupt ones.


They are not only with the US companies, and US companies do not equal government. Companies and not the government and visa versa. What about the others who had illegal deals? What about others from other countries?


If Ahmadinejad condemn and racist against Jews, then why he allowed Jews stay in his country? The Jews in Iran are not under oppression as you always said this entire time while I've already wrote, posted the link that they are live there peacefully and have rights to express their religion. You haven't read it my post few pages back or simply you can't accept it?

If that the reasons I can understand, however since US army came to Iraq and Afghanistan, the whole countries are under chaos everyday. US army can't stabilize conditions nor they can make the situation better nor they can wipe off the 'terrorist'. Before US army came, Saddam's regime is in stability, same goes to Afghanista.

The question is, how do you define the terrorist? While the nation who occupying, looting and killing people in weak countries are the ones who spread the hatred and made anti-US slogan in all developing countries, like Africa, South America and Asia countries.


He allows them to stay in his country for political reasons. The fact is that the only people will full rights in Iran are Shi'ite Muslims, Sunnis are even discriminated against. The fact is that the number of Jews in Iran has been shrinking drastically and that the government filters 99% of what they do. They even sit in synagogues to make sure none of the Jews support Israel... They make a political opinion illegal. They Jews and all other religious minorities have restricted rights and are under oppression. All non Shi'ites are controlled bye he government, some religions are tolerated by they are oppressed by the government through their laws and regulations. One such law is the fact that no religion (even Sunni Islam) is allowed to print anything in Iran. Churches can't even print bulletins. No one is allowed to speak against Islam or openly disagree with Muhammad's prophetic background. Muslims are put to death for leaving Islam, and if anyone is the reason for them leaving Islam they are out to death too... This is oppression, and the sad thing is that it is legal in Iran, the government demands it by law. I have read your posts, but they don't refute my position. Have you read mine and accept the laws in Iran? Are they not unjust? Even toward fellow Muslims they are harsh and oppressive.

The US is trying to stabilize conditions and to make things better. Sadam was a dictator and most of the world believed that he had WMDs, America did not act alone in its decision to take out Sadam. Afghanistan was being controlled by terrorists who were responsible for the 9/11 attacks on the United States. They killed thousands of innocent people and technically you could say it was an act of war against the US. Not just did they attack my country, but they also attacked the UK and stated that they will attack more. As of now most of their attacks are in the Middle East, and most of their attacks are towards Muslim civilians who aren't of the same religious persuasion.

I define the terrorists as groups like Hamas, Hezbolah, the Taliban, Al Quaeda, and the likes. They are the ones who seek to kill civilians and take control of countries. They follow the same basic cultic principals of world domination through blood and genocide. They follow a form of Islam that most Muslims would say is incorrect and twisted with hatred and faulty hadiths. The US is not oppressing weak countries, we are liberating them from dictators and terrorism. Pakistan is doing the same thing. Look at the groups like Hams, the Taliban, and others. They are the ones who kill and murder to achieve power (like what Hamas did in Gaza toward Fatah). They are the ones who repress human freedom and threaten to kill (like the Taliban during the Afghani elections). If you look at what they believe and their actions you will find that these organizations are evil. It's not about Muslim/non Muslim because what they practice is not real Islam. They practice hate under the blanket that they call is "true" Islam.


Why not? Clearly you haven't read my post at all few pages back that explain and proven Iranian Christian and Iranian Jews can express their religion freely. Even, one of Jews said Iranian muslim are kinder to Jews than to muslims itself. You can't trust them, because simply you don't have any intention to understand them.

They hate Israel because Israel make Palestinian people suffering. Maybe you should go to Palestine instead, to know how cruel the treatment from Israel.

The statistics has proven Iranian Jews happily live in Iran from decades ago. If you don't know statistics, thousand can meant a lot in population and civilian calculus. They are shrinking because they moved or convert to other religion.


I have read your posts, but again as stated they have not refuted what I have said or what I have shown to be true through what Iran has in it's laws. Iranian Christians and Jews can not express their religion freely. The government controls churches and prohibits publications and public displays of faith or worship. Here are some links that help lay this out. http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/irf/2003/24449.htm
http://www.unesco.org/most/rr3iran.htm http://www.cswusa.com/Countries/Iran.htm Have you not seen my other links on this issue? One Jewish person saying they are alright with how things are doesn't make it so. What about the 80,000+ who have left the country? I do intend to understand Iran. I have stated before as a child my babysitter was an Iranian Muslim woman. Although I believe she fled Iran during the revolution because she was a Sunni Muslim. 2 of my friends in university are Iranian in fact. I don't hate the Iranian people, but the government is whacked up. Many many Iranians disagree with the government and we saw that during the elections protests... and we also saw Iran's totalitarian human rights and democratic violations through this too.

Israel is not making Palestinian people suffer... I would go to Palestine, but I'm sure I would be killed for supporting Israel and for denouncing Hamas. This site displays the Palestinian racism and hatred from their media/ http://www.pmw.org.il/. There are other countries that get ignored and are far worse off then Palestine. Haiti for example is one, and I have been there so I know what poverty is like. Maybe you should visit Israel, they don't treat Palestinians cruely, but rathe the Palestinians treat the Israelis with cruelty. It's proven fact that all Arabs and Palestinians in Israel are granted citizenship and equal rights. In fact there are even Israeli members of parliament that believe Israel has no right to exist and that Palestine should be given everything... the opposite is true for Palestine, you get killed for supporting Israel.


Israel used Palestinian people as human shields. That's true. Look at these video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjEd4hJNVCE

Especially this video, those Jews insulting Jesus.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYuWOi56Wq0


Hamas uses human shields... http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Terrorism-+Obstacle+to+Peace/Hamas+war+against+Israel/Hamas+exploitation+of+civilians+as+human+shields+-+Photographic+evidence.htm They also murder Fatah members and kill innocent civilians. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xisp2gys6o

Jews usually insult Jesus... After all, it was the Jews who crucified him. Jesus was a Jew Himself and was mocked by them in his life. Jesus never hated them though and used this to teach us that we are to love our enemies. With his dying breaths he asked that God would forgive them... Jews don't believe that Jesus is the Messiah so naturally they don't agree with what Jesus said. What does this have to do with the conflict though?


You haven't view the video nor the torture in those prisoners, right? Especially in Bagram and Abu Ghraib. Some prisoner are Civilian.One of them was Dillawar, a Taxi driver. US prisoner tortured him, beaten him to DEaTH. That's why Taliban hate them and trying to kick US army from their land.

Do you think Taliban are barbaric? They treat their prisoner, an US private Bowe R. Bergdahl, with respect and moral. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THmerXtKiqA The opposite of what US prison did to CIVILIAN people.

Please study it deeper and carefully.


A US prisoner tortured him and beat him to death... did the US do this though? No. Individuals of a country cannot dictate what the countries stance on something is. I'm sure the man who killed him was charged with murder and punished accordingly. The Taliban is far far worse... they execute people on camera, behead people, recruit children and believe a hate filled dogma.

I do believe that the Taliban is barbaric, they are not moral and they are terrorists. They oppress women, murder, kill, kidnap, they even grow opium and have illegal business to get money to fuel wars. Why are you defending a terrorist organization? If they are so wonderful then why is Pakistan trying to get rid of them?
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Posted 10/19/09

digs wrote:

Here is a link that will explain how Iran has violated the agreement http://www.carnegieendowment.org/publications/index.cfm?fa=view&id=23884. They have violated the treaty, and not just the IAEA but the NPT. they are the ones who lied about their program and kept a second site in secret.

Pakistan isn't a threat at the moment, the threat is if the Taliban gains control of the country and thus gains power over their nukes. I believe I stated that in my previous post. The US trusts Pakistan to some extent, we are at peace with them and have no reason to believe that the current government would launch a nuke. The threat is the instability with the uprising of Talibani militants trying to take over the country. In fact, Pakistan is trying to get rid of the Taliban as well, the US recently gave them some aid money to help them do that and to protect themselves from the terrorists. Here are some news links http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,568461,00.html http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/oct/17/pakistan-sends-troops-against-taliban


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Read it again if you don't have any chance to read it before. If you keep saying Iran has violated the agreement, I will just simply posting this again. I've read your link and it mainly says about Code 3.1 and questioning about its version of 1976 and 1990, therefore my post already explained much about the Code 3.1 and why Iran reverting back to 1976 version of Code 3.1.



How is US definition to 'threat' nations? Just because, the nation doesn't agree with US, then US considered them as threat? Like Axis of Evil?
Yes, Pakistan is a threat when they have armed opposition. That's the main threat. Instability of a country that possess nuclear weapon is far worse then North Korea. If the rebel or armed opposition get the nucelar weapon, then it'll all disaster. It's not only appply to Pakistan, but also to all countries who had rebel army. If this happens, the rebel army would use nuclear they got to make negotiation and bargain to government which is in weak position because the rebel have deadly weapon now.

The question is, why US government gave the nuclear facility to Pakistan? Isn't this some political issue, while Pakistan is not even sign the treaty from IAEA and international laws. Then US also helping violate international laws, if we see it at different point of view, correct?

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Do you know how this 'aid money' works?
US gives money to Pakistan gov or army in exchange of every 'terrorist' Pakistani forces captured. When the 'terrorist' were given to US military, then US transferred/give the aid money to Pakistani forces. The problem is: Pakistani forces would capture anyone who is suitable to be as terrorist description to US, whether they're with military or not, as long as they capture person and label them as terrorist, they'd have money from US military. That's how it works, it's counterproductive when Pakistani forces only aimed to get aid money from US military, thus they capturing Innocent people.

http://www.caymanmama.com/2009/03/31/pakistan-news-of-march-31-2009_200903314393.html
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/World/Exchange_terrorists_among_SAARC_nations_Pak_civil_groups/articleshow/3965052.cms



digs wrote:

They are not only with the US companies, and US companies do not equal government. Companies and not the government and visa versa. What about the others who had illegal deals? What about others from other countries?


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If US companies and US government made a deal or agreement before hand, then they have same interest towards Iraq's and Afghanistan's oil. That's how it works. http://www.thedebate.org/thedebate/afghanistan.asp

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What about the others who had illegal deals? What about others from other countries?
Yes, they're suspected had illegal deals, as it is common in oil. But any specific event you want to point out? Do you have any links? It's not anyone false, after all. Because there's no government to control the illegal deals after US invades Iraq and destroy the government.


digs wrote:

He allows them to stay in his country for political reasons. The fact is that the only people will full rights in Iran are Shi'ite Muslims, Sunnis are even discriminated against. The fact is that the number of Jews in Iran has been shrinking drastically and that the government filters 99% of what they do. They even sit in synagogues to make sure none of the Jews support Israel... They make a political opinion illegal. They Jews and all other religious minorities have restricted rights and are under oppression. All non Shi'ites are controlled bye he government, some religions are tolerated by they are oppressed by the government through their laws and regulations. One such law is the fact that no religion (even Sunni Islam) is allowed to print anything in Iran. Churches can't even print bulletins. No one is allowed to speak against Islam or openly disagree with Muhammad's prophetic background. Muslims are put to death for leaving Islam, and if anyone is the reason for them leaving Islam they are out to death too... This is oppression, and the sad thing is that it is legal in Iran, the government demands it by law. I have read your posts, but they don't refute my position. Have you read mine and accept the laws in Iran? Are they not unjust? Even toward fellow Muslims they are harsh and oppressive.

The US is trying to stabilize conditions and to make things better. Sadam was a dictator and most of the world believed that he had WMDs, America did not act alone in its decision to take out Sadam. Afghanistan was being controlled by terrorists who were responsible for the 9/11 attacks on the United States. They killed thousands of innocent people and technically you could say it was an act of war against the US. Not just did they attack my country, but they also attacked the UK and stated that they will attack more. As of now most of their attacks are in the Middle East, and most of their attacks are towards Muslim civilians who aren't of the same religious persuasion.

I define the terrorists as groups like Hamas, Hezbolah, the Taliban, Al Quaeda, and the likes. They are the ones who seek to kill civilians and take control of countries. They follow the same basic cultic principals of world domination through blood and genocide. They follow a form of Islam that most Muslims would say is incorrect and twisted with hatred and faulty hadiths. The US is not oppressing weak countries, we are liberating them from dictators and terrorism. Pakistan is doing the same thing. Look at the groups like Hams, the Taliban, and others. They are the ones who kill and murder to achieve power (like what Hamas did in Gaza toward Fatah). They are the ones who repress human freedom and threaten to kill (like the Taliban during the Afghani elections). If you look at what they believe and their actions you will find that these organizations are evil. It's not about Muslim/non Muslim because what they practice is not real Islam. They practice hate under the blanket that they call is "true" Islam.


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You keep sayin' this all over again when I've already post nearly one page and most of them are from your links that tell the opposite than what you told me.


It is one of the many paradoxes of the Islamic Republic of Iran that this most virulent anti-Israeli country supports by far the largest Jewish population of any Muslim country.
http://www.sephardicstudies.org/iran.html



All this are from your links, therefore I accept your post as I've read them. But apparently, your post didn't accept you, lol. You said 'even fellow muslims' because I am a muslim? That won't make me divert myself, as I see the root of it.

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Saddam was indeed a dictator, but not only him. Many countries around the world are controlled with very same system in Russia, China, African countries, South America's countries and many in Asia are like that. That doesn't meant US can invade their dictatorship in their own country, right? If that accepted by its own people, then it's their rights. If that not being accepted, then we have UN to stabilize it. Sadly, so far UN is useless. But that doesn't meant, US can invade and slaughtering them for their choice to their own government.

Does US had been successful to achieve that 'stabilization'? Since US military came, we almost can see everyday bombing in Iraq's towns from opposition because they do not approve this kind of government made by foreign country in their homeland. You should try to understand them, how if Russia invade your country then made a government chosen by Russia military. Would you resist or support it? Your path depends on your choice.

There is no evidence, a group of terrorist can hijack 4 commercial planes to hit a large city in New York and Pentagon. Was there any recorded conversation from pilot in those 4 planes? What I can see is propaganda as the time WTC being hit by planes, all Jews workers took day off. As if they've been informed before. And this incident is the very first reason American invade Afghanistan after accuse them having Biological weapon and Weapon of Mass Destruction. Now, those 2 accusations had been proven now?

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They are the groups that oppose their own government and not accept the puppet government from foreign country. That's it, although I don't acknowledge nor knowing Al-Qaeda in detail as they only create terror in civilian area. Al-Qaeda is wrong in every aspect, but not with Hamas, Hezbolah,Taliban as I describe above. How do you define terrorist to them as they value and respect prisoner in their hand as following videos describe: (That' is, if you close your eye you won't see it)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THmerXtKiqA <<< US Private, private Bowe R. Bergdahl, with respect and moral. Watch all parts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUR5HIHkYUs <<< Israel Soldier, Gilad Shalit, without abused and no injury.

Very contrast of what US did in their 3 prisons such as Bagram, Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo, right? Where the prisoners (Mostly innocent civilian) are being tortured everyday and received sexual harassment S how do you define them as terrorist after viewing these videos?

Why US bother to attack Afghanistan and Iraq just because their gov system are different from Democracy?. Interfering with country's affair is not their rights. If that their intentions, then US military shuold invade all countries in Africa, Asia, cinluding Russia and China and all South America countries, including Cuba, Venezuela...etc.

Funny, there's less terrorism when the dictators were taken control of their country. The terrorist would have hard deal to oppose the solid government, after all Taliban was created because of they don't like the current puppet government, not because they want to create terror. It's all political reasons.

If you look at what they do in political area, you will find these organizations are created to represent the true voice of Afghanistan and Iraqis people. It's not about religions, because that's not their objective. they want to send US troops home and want to govern their own land, not by foreign countries. They practice human rights, under the blanket what world call is 'terrorism '


digs wrote:

I have read your posts, but again as stated they have not refuted what I have said or what I have shown to be true through what Iran has in it's laws. Iranian Christians and Jews can not express their religion freely. The government controls churches and prohibits publications and public displays of faith or worship. Here are some links that help lay this out. http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/irf/2003/24449.htm
http://www.unesco.org/most/rr3iran.htm http://www.cswusa.com/Countries/Iran.htm Have you not seen my other links on this issue? One Jewish person saying they are alright with how things are doesn't make it so. What about the 80,000+ who have left the country? I do intend to understand Iran. I have stated before as a child my babysitter was an Iranian Muslim woman. Although I believe she fled Iran during the revolution because she was a Sunni Muslim. 2 of my friends in university are Iranian in fact. I don't hate the Iranian people, but the government is whacked up. Many many Iranians disagree with the government and we saw that during the elections protests... and we also saw Iran's totalitarian human rights and democratic violations through this too.

Israel is not making Palestinian people suffer... I would go to Palestine, but I'm sure I would be killed for supporting Israel and for denouncing Hamas. This site displays the Palestinian racism and hatred from their media/ http://www.pmw.org.il/. There are other countries that get ignored and are far worse off then Palestine. Haiti for example is one, and I have been there so I know what poverty is like. Maybe you should visit Israel, they don't treat Palestinians cruely, but rathe the Palestinians treat the Israelis with cruelty. It's proven fact that all Arabs and Palestinians in Israel are granted citizenship and equal rights. In fact there are even Israeli members of parliament that believe Israel has no right to exist and that Palestine should be given everything... the opposite is true for Palestine, you get killed for supporting Israel.


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The question is, have you read them carefully, word by word? Open the spoiler above and below, click the links or search in google. There are many statement that Jews were happily express their religion in peace in Iran. And this is from your links:



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That's what we called prejudice when you said, you'd be killed for sure for promoting Israel. And that's what gives Palestinian bad name because of western media always like that. I can't believe you post that link. That's Israel's official websites to gives Palestinian and Muslims bad name, some of them are written by Hebrew, do you aware of that? Or do you even check it yourself? There's no way Palestine made it, while that web only display how cruel Muslims are. Read deeper, please.


digs wrote:

Hamas uses human shields... http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Terrorism-+Obstacle+to+Peace/Hamas+war+against+Israel/Hamas+exploitation+of+civilians+as+human+shields+-+Photographic+evidence.htm They also murder Fatah members and kill innocent civilians. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xisp2gys6o

Jews usually insult Jesus... After all, it was the Jews who crucified him. Jesus was a Jew Himself and was mocked by them in his life. Jesus never hated them though and used this to teach us that we are to love our enemies. With his dying breaths he asked that God would forgive them... Jews don't believe that Jesus is the Messiah so naturally they don't agree with what Jesus said. What does this have to do with the conflict though?


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Again, what kind of links you post there? They are absolutely biased as those are Israel's government official website. But of course, if they tell the truth and made news based on actual incidents, tehn I have no problem check it. But after I read all of them... and bother to watch their 5 clips, they offered nothing to proving Hamas using human's shield. The clips are not clear, dark and it shown us about a man digging somethin'? Is that the related incident when Hamas using human shields?

Have you seen this video, the proof Israel used human shields in Gaza. You can see it and judge it with your own eyes. Thus it's not bias.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjEd4hJNVCE

Also this links. (Palestinian brothers: Israel used us as human shields in Gaza war. Three teenage boys say they were made to kneel in front of tanks to deter Hamas attacks)
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/mar/23/gaza-human-shields-claim

In your 2nd video, there's no clarification and clear who's doing it. I doubt Hamas has uniform when they doing their action and don't have serene vehicles when they doing their act. But it's very contrast to your video. I think it's Palestinian authorities using their gov's facility to conduct such act. As there's no source in that video and only a narrator pointed out and made assumption towards them. Therefore, it's not trustworthy, different form my video there.

Instead, Israel using white phosphorus to civilian, attacked UN building and many.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7828577.stm
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2009/01/20091111392884765.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jan/17/israel-gaza-phosphorus-civilians

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Well, I thought you wont biased if I show you that. Unfortunately, you still insist and not watching my video clearly thus support those who clearly violating International Laws and UN.
What does this have to do with Iran's nuclear though?


digs wrote:

A US prisoner tortured him and beat him to death... did the US do this though? No. Individuals of a country cannot dictate what the countries stance on something is. I'm sure the man who killed him was charged with murder and punished accordingly. The Taliban is far far worse... they execute people on camera, behead people, recruit children and believe a hate filled dogma.

I do believe that the Taliban is barbaric, they are not moral and they are terrorists. They oppress women, murder, kill, kidnap, they even grow opium and have illegal business to get money to fuel wars. Why are you defending a terrorist organization? If they are so wonderful then why is Pakistan trying to get rid of them?


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Of course. because that's the order from US official government from Ministry of Defense approval. That's why the soldiers followed their superiors to gain information from them which is futile and useless until now. Therefore, the soldiers actually do not want to do it, but because of the pressure from their high rank, they have to do it. You should watch, US Private Bowe R. Bergdahl video, and his statement as US soldier

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That's your choice for not believing them, but they've shown us how they tread their prisoner with respect and moral, unlike US military in another lands. That's baseless accusation from your media, same tactic they used to describe Iran's government.

Why are you supporting US invasion? If they are right, why in every countries they invaded, why there is so much chaos everyday since US came there?
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Posted 10/19/09
Lol is there an award for typing a lot of words because you win it Ryu. This is not a diss but to be able to respond to everyone with long paragraphs is beyond me lol I am too lazy for that. Oh well this is interesting anyway.
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