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Iran’s Nuclear Ambition
Posted 10/10/09 , edited 10/10/09

azera wrote:
What global nuclear genocide?! Iran has never invade, attack or occupy another country for the past hundreds of years, but instead who is sending signal to the world that they going to plan to bomb Iran nuclear facilities, let me give you a clue (a Jewish-majority country and a nation that promotes peace, human rights and democracy). Iran IS having peaceful nuclear program, theres no prove or whatsoever that Iran is developing nuclear weapons. This is the biggest mistake in US foreign policy i ever seen. Its another Iraq War over again! Has Americans had enough????

And now you're acting like Chicken Little , just like a certain "Jewish-majority country" called Israel. Which is why the US, "a nation that promotes peace, human rights and democracy", will be negotiating with Iran about the reason why Iran was hiding their nuclear enrichment site. So that Israel won't nuke Iran simply because Iran failed to comply with NPT by them withholding the detail about their nuclear program from IAEA.


azera wrote:
Why dont you address another problem that led to the rise of Islamism in the country. Iran once practice democracy but the idea has come to an end as Operation Ajax begin. Thats when hell break loose. But look whose fault anyway....CIA......history never lies...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d'%C3%A9tat

What has that got anything to do with the fact that Iran failed to comply their NPT agreement?

And speaking of history, this isn't the first time that Iran lied about their nuclear program.
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Posted 10/11/09

DomFortress wrote:


blancer wrote:
Azera is right. I am not saying that everything that is happening in Iran is good, but worst things are or were happening in other countries as well, but americans are interested only in middle east. And I still think that no one has right to meddle in other countries affairs, that is how all this started. Maybe it is time for west to start learning on their mistakes.


Azera is only right because he buries his head in the sand. But for you to agree with him by looking for an excuse, you went a step further by making things up as you go. You'll make a fine Iranian president yet.

To avoid a global nuclear genocide without US getting involved in another war, negotiations for a peaceful nuclear program with Iran is the only solution. If you want to dissolve globalization, then at least do so by raising your own resistance in front of the UN General Assembly.


So what you are saying is that US is acting as mediator between Israel and Iran? Well, that could be possible, but I think they are pretty biased for that. But politics are changing as the wind blows, so...
As for making things up as I go, just say what it is, and I will give facts in spoiler, since this will get really off topic.
Posted 10/11/09 , edited 10/11/09

blancer wrote:
So what you are saying is that US is acting as mediator between Israel and Iran? Well, that could be possible, but I think they are pretty biased for that. But politics are changing as the wind blows, so...
As for making things up as I go, just say what it is, and I will give facts in spoiler, since this will get really off topic.

Safe your effort. because as much as you want to win this argument, the moment that you so desperately try to prove me otherwise, you just want to see a war. And that's not what I want to see, which is why I'm on the other side of the argument.

BTW, that's how you properly polarize the argument by drawing a line in the sand.
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Posted 10/11/09

DomFortress wrote:


blancer wrote:
So what you are saying is that US is acting as mediator between Israel and Iran? Well, that could be possible, but I think they are pretty biased for that. But politics are changing as the wind blows, so...
As for making things up as I go, just say what it is, and I will give facts in spoiler, since this will get really off topic.

Safe your effort. because as much as you want to win this argument, the moment that you so desperately try to prove me otherwise, you just want to see a war. And that's not what I want to see, which is why I'm on the other side of the argument.

BTW, that's how you properly polarize the argument by drawing a line in the sand.


How did you conclude that? Win argument? Unfortunately, in this case I really dont take sides, I just read a lot about the theme, so I write what is bothering me, witch is, in this case, injustice. And that is really all there is to it.
Posted 10/11/09

blancer wrote:

DomFortress wrote:

blancer wrote:
So what you are saying is that US is acting as mediator between Israel and Iran? Well, that could be possible, but I think they are pretty biased for that. But politics are changing as the wind blows, so...
As for making things up as I go, just say what it is, and I will give facts in spoiler, since this will get really off topic.

Safe your effort. because as much as you want to win this argument, the moment that you so desperately try to prove me otherwise, you just want to see a war. And that's not what I want to see, which is why I'm on the other side of the argument.

BTW, that's how you properly polarize the argument by drawing a line in the sand.

How did you conclude that? Win argument? Unfortunately, in this case I really dont take sides, I just read a lot about the theme, so I write what is bothering me, witch is, in this case, injustice. And that is really all there is to it.

So how would you seek your brand of justice? And while we're speaking about the matter of justice, just who do you think was the wrongful party?

Wasn't it wrong that the Iranian government deliberately conceived about their current nuclear program for the second time while they're still under the agreement of NPT? Wasn't it wrong for the Israelis to be publicly alarmed about the current Iranian presidency due to his politics toward the people of Israel? Wasn't it wrong for the US to negotiate with Iran about the current Iranian nuclear program due to the current US alliance with Israel, while the US is currently serving as a member state of the UN Security Council per agreement of NPT? Wasn't it wrong for the current Iranian presidency to use his political status to isolate Iran, when the Iranian presidential election was skewed in favor of the current Iranian presidency due to no small part of the current Iranian Supreme Leader Ayatollah Khameni?

Our history can taught us lessons about ourselves. But if you're using history as an excuse for you to claim that things will never change about us, then you've learned nothing.
Posted 10/11/09
Hopefully energy related. We don't need a nuclear war.
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Posted 10/11/09 , edited 10/11/09
Wow I have been so inactive and this thread is still thriving I thought me and Ryu shut down the competition. As I am reading I am still seeing name calling, false information with absolutely no proof what so ever.

@Chthulhu it is for energy as far as facts go but the neo cons, Israel and the USA is making blank statements back by nothing that it is nuclear. They using the same tactic like they did with Iraq. Hopefully Obama doesnt fall into this trap but who knows everything he promised has not came true. He changed nothing regarding our economy or change in the middle east. The man has no backbone especially when it comes to Israel but if you think about it what president had a backbone when it came to Israel?

If there is a war it would be from the USA or Israel not Iran I can gaurentee that 100%. If look at the past which countries are the ones occupying and bombing other countries in that region. Thats right Israel and the USA. Which countries is threatning to bomb other countries in that region? Thats right Israel and the USA so Iran has every right to obtain a nuclear weapon if they wanted to due to nuclear threats coming from these nations.
Posted 10/11/09 , edited 10/11/09

drizza wrote:

Wow I have been so inactive and this thread is still thriving I thought me and Ryu shut down the competition. As I am reading I am still seeing name calling, false information with absolutely no proof what so ever.

@Chthulhu it is for energy as far as facts go but the neo cons, Israel and the USA is making blank statements back by nothing that it is nuclear. They using the same tactic like they did with Iraq. Hopefully Obama doesnt fall into this trap but who knows everything he promised has not came true. He changed nothing regarding our economy or change in the middle east. The man has no backbone especially when it comes to Israel but if you think about it what president had a backbone when it came to Israel?

If there is a war it would be from the USA or Israel not Iran I can gaurentee that 100%. If look at the past which countries are the ones occupying and bombing other countries in that region. Thats right Israel and the USA. Which countries is threatning to bomb other countries in that region? Thats right Israel and the USA so Iran has every right to obtain a nuclear weapon if they wanted to due to nuclear threats coming from these nations.

Then the Iranian can just further isolate themselves, by them withdrawing their agreement from NPT. That way the US won't even have to be negotiating with Iran because the Iranians don't trust the US nor Israel, just like you've suggested throughout history.

But you know what? Up 'til this day, the Iranians are still obligated under their NPT agreements which they did signed since 1968. So just what are these empty threats that you're talking about?

And If you want the UN Security Council to deal with Israel, sure! When you can think of a way to get Israel, Pakistan, India, and North Korea to agree with the NPT, you let them know about it.
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Posted 10/11/09 , edited 10/11/09

DomFortress wrote:


drizza wrote:

Wow I have been so inactive and this thread is still thriving I thought me and Ryu shut down the competition. As I am reading I am still seeing name calling, false information with absolutely no proof what so ever.

@Chthulhu it is for energy as far as facts go but the neo cons, Israel and the USA is making blank statements back by nothing that it is nuclear. They using the same tactic like they did with Iraq. Hopefully Obama doesnt fall into this trap but who knows everything he promised has not came true. He changed nothing regarding our economy or change in the middle east. The man has no backbone especially when it comes to Israel but if you think about it what president had a backbone when it came to Israel?

If there is a war it would be from the USA or Israel not Iran I can gaurentee that 100%. If look at the past which countries are the ones occupying and bombing other countries in that region. Thats right Israel and the USA. Which countries is threatning to bomb other countries in that region? Thats right Israel and the USA so Iran has every right to obtain a nuclear weapon if they wanted to due to nuclear threats coming from these nations.

Then the Iranian can just further isolate themselves, by them withdrawing their agreement from NPT. That way the US won't even have to be negotiating with Iran because the Iranians don't trust the US nor Israel, just like you've suggested throughout history.

But you know what? Up 'til this day, the Iranians are still obligated under their NPT agreements which they did signed since 1968. So just what are these empty threats that you're talking about?


I am saying if you have two nuclear nations making threats especially Israel who is trying to bomb these facilities they should develop them now for protection. Thankfully and surprisingly the USA wont permit Israel to bomb them....yet. Israel has been doing this to this reason just bombing whoever they see fit regardless of the information people present to them. I havent read one statement where Iran said they wanted to bomb Israel at all. Until we can see some violations from Iran in the NPT and them not cooperating then I see no threat but a bunch of baseless assumptions. Lets try to let the IEIA into Israel and lets see how they react. Israel has nukes but wont admit it but lol tells another country without nukes that they will bomb them because they are developing nuclear energy. I dont like Obama but at least he isnt quick to start a conflict. I applaud that he wants negotiations with Iran unconditional. I am glad that neo con warmonger Mccain isnt president because if he was there would be absoutely no negotiations ever. Our relations will be sour in the middle east even more and Russia. Obama is trying to make peace in the middle east but to me actions speak louder then words. The man has to end these two silly wars and come up with a way to stop Israel from occupying a weak country. Israel/Palestine conflict if that is solved would put a huge dent in a lot of the problems in the middle east.

Once again I must point out the extreme hypocrisy in the United States regarding the middle east. Here Obama goes touting at the UN about a world free of nukes but our number 1 ally is secretly has them and wont admit it. But yet the threat is coming from a country who doesnt have any nukes at all and the IEIA and our own CIA admitted to this. Iran never bombed any country or occupied one. I know you and others find this hard to believe but he hasnt went out on a killing spree for jews in his country and the jews in Iran can freely practice their religion. Now this country is the new world threat? Not the ones who are actually invading, bombing, occupying other countries? This is just mind boggling.
Posted 10/11/09

drizza wrote:
I am saying if you have two nuclear nations making threats especially Israel who is trying to bomb these facilities they should develop them now for protection. Thankfully and surprisingly the USA wont permit Israel to bomb them....yet. Israel has been doing this to this reason just bombing whoever they see fit regardless of the information people present to them. I havent read one statement where Iran said they wanted to bomb Israel at all. Until we can see some violations from Iran in the NPT and them not cooperating then I see no threat but a bunch of baseless assumptions. Lets try to let the IEIA into Israel and lets see how they react. Israel has nukes but wont admit it but lol tells another country without nukes that they will bomb them because they are developing nuclear energy. I dont like Obama but at least he isnt quick to start a conflict. I applaud that he wants negotiations with Iran unconditional. I am glad that neo con warmonger Mccain isnt president because if he was there would be absoutely no negotiations ever. Our relations will be sour in the middle east even more and Russia. Obama is trying to make peace in the middle east but to me actions speak louder then words. The man has to end these two silly wars and come up with a way to stop Israel from occupying a weak country. Israel/Palestine conflict if that is solved would put a huge dent in a lot of the problems in the middle east.

Once again I must point out the extreme hypocrisy in the United States regarding the middle east. Here Obama goes touting at the UN about a world free of nukes but our number 1 ally is secretly has them and wont admit it. But yet the threat is coming from a country who doesnt have any nukes at all and the IEIA and our own CIA admitted to this. Iran never bombed any country or occupied one. I know you and others find this hard to believe but he hasnt went out on a killing spree for jews in his country and the jews in Iran can freely practice their religion. Now this country is the new world threat? Not the ones who are actually invading, bombing, occupying other countries? This is just mind boggling.

I've got your proofs right here: first in 2002, when Iranian exiles reviled that Iran had been keeping a nuclear program under hiding for 18 years from IAEA inspection. And again in 2009, when the Iranian were concealing a second nuclear site. And these were all done while Iran was under the current Iranian president Ahmadinejad administration.

And just what's so secret about the Israeli nuclear program? When they honestly never signed the NPT back in 1968. Which is why IAEA never bothered with Israel because they were clear about their nuclear program intention and thus, did not agree with the NPT.
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Posted 10/11/09 , edited 10/11/09
Read the first paragraph of your BBC article

The site - said to be near Qom - was acknowledged by Iran in a letter to the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) on Monday. Western intelligence agencies discovered the site some time ago, according to the New York Times.

I am not going to go through all the links I posted on this thread as well but I already provided crushing proof about how this faciltiy was already announced and our government already knew about it. So how again why are you acting all in shock and awe about this?

That second article I would have to sit down and read it because right now I am doing college work. Basically if Iran didnt sign the NPT you would not have a problem with them obtaining nuclear weapons? What is Israel clear about defending their country? What if Iran was trying to do the same would that be a problem? I mean with two nations making threats against them wouldnt you do the same? Since they developed them where was the world to jump on their case to stop them? Why wont they admit they have them and also why are they barking at another country who doesnt have them and which our own CIA says they dont have any http://www.truthout.org/article/hersh-cia-analysis-finds-iran-not-developing-nuclear-weapons?
Posted 10/11/09

drizza wrote:

Read the first paragraph of your BBC article

The site - said to be near Qom - was acknowledged by Iran in a letter to the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) on Monday. Western intelligence agencies discovered the site some time ago, according to the New York Times.

I am not going to go through all the links I posted on this thread as well but I already provided crushing proof about how this faciltiy was already announced and our government already knew about it. So how again why are you acting all in shock and awe about this?

That second article I would have to sit down and read it because right now I am doing college work. Basically if Iran didnt sign the NPT you would not have a problem with them obtaining nuclear weapons? What is Israel clear about defending their country? What if Iran was trying to do the same would that be a problem? I mean with two nations making threats against them wouldnt you do the same? Since they developed them where was the world to jump on their case to stop them? Why wont they admit they have them and also why are they barking at another country who doesnt have them and which our own CIA says they dont have any http://www.truthout.org/article/hersh-cia-analysis-finds-iran-not-developing-nuclear-weapons?


drizza it's blunt for me to say this but america if not the rest of the world hates the Muslim community but well that's just obesveration that I have made
Posted 10/11/09 , edited 10/11/09

drizza wrote:
Read the first paragraph of your BBC article

The site - said to be near Qom - was acknowledged by Iran in a letter to the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) on Monday. Western intelligence agencies discovered the site some time ago, according to the New York Times.

I am not going to go through all the links I posted on this thread as well but I already provided crushing proof about how this faciltiy was already announced and our government already knew about it. So how again why are you acting all in shock and awe about this?

That second article I would have to sit down and read it because right now I am doing college work. Basically if Iran didnt sign the NPT you would not have a problem with them obtaining nuclear weapons? What is Israel clear about defending their country? What if Iran was trying to do the same would that be a problem? I mean with two nations making threats against them wouldnt you do the same? Since they developed them where was the world to jump on their case to stop them? Why wont they admit they have them and also why are they barking at another country who doesnt have them and which our own CIA says they dont have any http://www.truthout.org/article/hersh-cia-analysis-finds-iran-not-developing-nuclear-weapons?

That letter was send from Iran to the UN's IAEA after the Iranians failed to conceal their second Iranian nuclear site from US intelligence, you dimwit. The shocking truth isn't about the second nuclear site itself, but the fact that the Iranians tired to conceal it from the rest of the world. When they agreed not to hide anything about their nuclear program as per their agreement with NPT, after the Iranians were first found out about their 18 years long nuclear programs in 2002 not by IAEA.

And once again since you obviously missed it: if you want the UN Security Council to deal with Israel, sure! When you can think of a way to get Israel, Pakistan, India, and North Korea to agree with the NPT, you let them know about it.

And finally, learn some online journalism ethics, before you start referring to internet sources that don't have any, because they didn't credit their original CIA report source on a 3 years old news to begin with.
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Posted 10/11/09

DomFortress wrote:


drizza wrote:
Read the first paragraph of your BBC article

The site - said to be near Qom - was acknowledged by Iran in a letter to the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) on Monday. Western intelligence agencies discovered the site some time ago, according to the New York Times.

I am not going to go through all the links I posted on this thread as well but I already provided crushing proof about how this faciltiy was already announced and our government already knew about it. So how again why are you acting all in shock and awe about this?

That second article I would have to sit down and read it because right now I am doing college work. Basically if Iran didnt sign the NPT you would not have a problem with them obtaining nuclear weapons? What is Israel clear about defending their country? What if Iran was trying to do the same would that be a problem? I mean with two nations making threats against them wouldnt you do the same? Since they developed them where was the world to jump on their case to stop them? Why wont they admit they have them and also why are they barking at another country who doesnt have them and which our own CIA says they dont have any http://www.truthout.org/article/hersh-cia-analysis-finds-iran-not-developing-nuclear-weapons?

That letter was send from Iran to the UN's IAEA after the Iranians failed to conceal their second Iranian nuclear site from US intelligence, you dimwit. The shocking truth isn't about the second nuclear site itself, but the fact that the Iranians tired to conceal it from the rest of the world. When they agreed not to hide anything about their nuclear program as per their agreement with NPT.

And once again since you obviously missed it: if you want the UN Security Council to deal with Israel, sure! When you can think of a way to get Israel, Pakistan, India, and North Korea to agree with the NPT, you let them know about it.

And finally, learn some online journalism ethics
, before you start referring to internet sources that don't have any, because they didn't credit their original CIA report source on a 3 years old news to begin with.

Ok show me the recent proof of Irans Nuke weapons? Thats right you cant and you havent on this thread at all. NOw lets be civil you seen to be getting angry over a difference of opinion. (Well I bought facts your still shouting opinions with no proof still.)

According to Stephen M Walt. A harvard proffessor:

That said, it is not clear from the early press reports exactly how blatant a violation this really is. According to the Washington Post, Iran notified the IAEA on September 21 that it was constructing a new pilot enrichment plant. Assuming that it has not already introduced nuclear material into this facility (and Tehran says it hasn't), Iran is therefore in compliance with the NPT's Comprehensive Full Scope Safeguards Agreement, which requires it to notify the IAEA six months before nuclear material is introduced into any new facility. Iran previously withdrew from the more demanding Subsidiary Agreement 3.1, which would have required more detailed and timely notification, in response to the IAEA's decision to refer Iran's nuclear program to the U.N. Security Council. So from Tehran's perspective, this new facility is not a violation at all: they are permitted to enrich under the NPT and they have complied with the Comprehensive Safeguards agreement by notifying the IAEA of the new facility.

Intelligence Agencies Say No New Nukes in Iran http://www.newsweek.com/id/215529
There goes a recent article Sept 16, 2009

My friend to sum up our whole debate. All you have done so far and what everyone can see was just attack Irans human rights policy and parts of Islamic law. You or anyone else on this thread have failed to provide proof of a bomb making facility or any links that show proof that one was discovered. You failed in your attempt to show it is a law that you have to be muslim in Iran. You failed in your attempt to show that Iran hates jews when in fact they have a large jewish population and is anti-Israel rather then anti jewish. The trap your falling into and what many other brain dead Americans are falling into is propaganda. I hate saying this a million times but to think we would be smart enough to learn from Iraq. To think that if someone keeps lieing to you they have no credibility. Seems like thats not the case with many Americans as liers are touted as heroes. Truth speakers are silenced not given a voice. It is hard to believe that nobody can see a similarity with Iraq. The demoniazation of that country to the point where we thought it was so evil that they had to have a WMD. Same story with Iran demonize it to the point they are not human and then say, "And you see because he doesnt allow Jews to marry Muslims he must be developing a nuclear weapon to destroy Israel." This secret facility is laughable. Everyone reading this notice how secret is always tossed in front of this. Now when you hear the word secret the brain automatically thinks something supicious or malicious that person didnt want anyone to know. So everytime secret is being used it is for its purpose to further demonize this country to sell this false accusation of a nuclear weapon being made. So the sheep will follow Iran will be attack, 100% of no nuke weapons but a new conflict arised in the middle east and now the US will be involved in that.

People we have to see why the USA isnt liked in this region nor Israel because of these types of lies going on. These two countries talk about peace and democracy but dont actions dont live up to it. We install dictators and end up having to hunt them down. How do you think the people of these countries feel about the USA having known that we helped install horrible dictators? How do you think Palestinians feel about the USA when they know every bomb used to level their ground is made in the USA? If we continue this behavior how will this spiral of hatred for the USA ever end? Do you know how happy the arabs were when Obama got elected? They thought they would see some change especially Afgans, Iraqis, and Palestinians knowing Barack Obama is black and knowing how the blacks been through slavery he could relate to their struggle. Now let down because of the two wars we are still fighting and the continued illegal occupations of Palestine they turn right back to extreme for the answer.
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Posted 10/11/09 , edited 10/11/09
I can gaurentee from now untill the year 2012 (random number) You still wont find any proof and will still come back hear touting Iran is developing nuclear weapons like we have been for the last 8 years without a shred of proof. Lets hope it even lasts that long before we or hypocritical Israel with nukes but wont come out and say talk about a nation with no nuclear weapons but secretly being built (no proof) will launch its attack. You want to talk about American having a better look on the world but continue to support injusticies and hypocritical behavior.
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