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Iran’s Nuclear Ambition
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Posted 10/11/09 , edited 10/11/09

Muslims are usually hated in countries where there is lots of negative media bashing against them. If you look at how America is now not only muslims but arabs are stereotyped now. Even if your an Indian/Pakistani (they arent arabs) the ignorant American will stereotype them as being muslim along with all the horrible things they heard about them. I find this funny America has had a large population of muslims for so long some people probably interacted with them and dont even realize they are muslims. Just look at when Obama was running for office. They put infasize on his middle name "Hussien" to scare people that he is muslim. Some people believe that muslims are only arabs. So despite his mother being white and his father being black people were still calling him an arab. Can you believe that?
Posted 10/11/09

drizza wrote:


CecilTheDarkKnight_234 wrote:


drizza wrote:

Read the first paragraph of your BBC article

The site - said to be near Qom - was acknowledged by Iran in a letter to the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) on Monday. Western intelligence agencies discovered the site some time ago, according to the New York Times.

I am not going to go through all the links I posted on this thread as well but I already provided crushing proof about how this faciltiy was already announced and our government already knew about it. So how again why are you acting all in shock and awe about this?

That second article I would have to sit down and read it because right now I am doing college work. Basically if Iran didnt sign the NPT you would not have a problem with them obtaining nuclear weapons? What is Israel clear about defending their country? What if Iran was trying to do the same would that be a problem? I mean with two nations making threats against them wouldnt you do the same? Since they developed them where was the world to jump on their case to stop them? Why wont they admit they have them and also why are they barking at another country who doesnt have them and which our own CIA says they dont have any http://www.truthout.org/article/hersh-cia-analysis-finds-iran-not-developing-nuclear-weapons?


drizza it's blunt for me to say this but america if not the rest of the world hates the Muslim community but well that's just obesveration that I have made


Muslims are usually hated in countries where there is lots of negative media bashing against them. If you look at how America is now not only muslims but arabs are stereotyped now. Even if your an Indian/Pakistani (they arent arabs) the ignorant American will stereotype them as being muslim along with all the horrible things they heard about them. I find this funny America has had a large population of muslims for so long some people probably interacted with them and dont even realize they are muslims. Just look at when Obama was running for office. They put infasize on his middle name "Hussien" to scare people that he is muslim. Some people believe that muslims are only arabs. So despite his mother being white and his father being black people were still calling him an arab. Can you believe that?


yeah i know i do live in a rural area in the south after all.
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Posted 10/11/09 , edited 10/11/09

Lol tell me about it I live in the south also (man but rural south I applaud you for being wise those areas lol they dont tolerate anything) when my Co workers found out I was muslim they was shocked because to many people who know me and real life wouldnt even know unless I told them. I had to break them out of many stereotypes as well luckily they was an open minded friendly bunch.
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Posted 10/11/09
, just like a certain "Jewish-majority country" called Israel. Which is why the US, "a nation that promotes peace, human rights and democracy", will be negotiating with Iran about the reason why Iran was hiding their nuclear enrichment site. So that Israel won't nuke Iran simply because Iran failed to comply with NPT by them withholding the detail about their nuclear program from IAEA.


azera wrote:
Why dont you address another problem that led to the rise of Islamism in the country. Iran once practice democracy but the idea has come to an end as Operation Ajax begin. Thats when hell break loose. But look whose fault anyway....CIA......history never lies...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d'%C3%A9tat

What has that got anything to do with the fact that Iran failed to comply their NPT agreement?

And speaking of history, this isn't the first time that Iran lied about their nuclear program.

Wait a minute.......Iran sign the Treaty....and all the attention all focus on the particular nation. Why are you requesting Iran to expose their nuclear facilities when Israel kept on their own for years? Russia, China and Iran has sign the treaty but Israel hasn't. Israel does pose greater threat than Iran alone. Its unfair that all Western nations are directly focusing on Iran. I smell full of bias.


What has that got anything to do with the fact that Iran failed to comply their NPT agreement?


I wanted to address the root of the problem.
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Posted 10/11/09
I got trouble posting on this thread......
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digs 
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Posted 10/11/09 , edited 10/11/09
I see some saying "if Israel doesn't Iran doesn't." the truth is that Israel is not bound by the treaty, Iran is. The truth is that Israel is not making nuclear threats and is seeking peace, the aren't the aggressors. Israel needs nuclear weapons for self defensive purposes, the Arab league and Arab nations have shamefully attacked them and caused wars on many occasions. They need protection from countries like Iran, Lebanon, Syria, etc... Regardless, Israel has nothing to due with this issue as they play no part in what Iran is doing. You can't point to them as an excuse because it is a completely different issue under completely different treaties and laws. What we have before us is Iran, not "well Israel has them, so that means we deserve them too." Israel is irrelevant when it comes to Iran possessing nukes and it's an irrelevant excuse to bring Israel's possession of nukes into the discussion.
On the flip side... Iran has lied about their facilities, they call for the destruction of Israel, they are a theocratic regime with an apocalyptic goal, they are trying to enrich more uranium than would be necessary for power (which suggests weapons). And iran repeatedly lies to the international community while making militant gestures against the nation of Israel that they refuse to acknowledge as a nation. Israel has every right to bomb Iran's nuclear facilities because it is their duty to protect their citizens from harm. Iran is a national threat to Israel and any logical world power would do the same to defend themselves from a nuclear war. Ahmedinejad is crafty with his lies and manipulation like Hitler was... let's learn from history and not let this happen again.
Posted 10/11/09

drizza wrote:
Ok show me the recent proof of Irans Nuke weapons? Thats right you cant and you havent on this thread at all. NOw lets be civil you seen to be getting angry over a difference of opinion. (Well I bought facts your still shouting opinions with no proof still.)

According to Stephen M Walt. A harvard proffessor:

That said, it is not clear from the early press reports exactly how blatant a violation this really is. According to the Washington Post, Iran notified the IAEA on September 21 that it was constructing a new pilot enrichment plant. Assuming that it has not already introduced nuclear material into this facility (and Tehran says it hasn't), Iran is therefore in compliance with the NPT's Comprehensive Full Scope Safeguards Agreement, which requires it to notify the IAEA six months before nuclear material is introduced into any new facility. Iran previously withdrew from the more demanding Subsidiary Agreement 3.1, which would have required more detailed and timely notification, in response to the IAEA's decision to refer Iran's nuclear program to the U.N. Security Council. So from Tehran's perspective, this new facility is not a violation at all: they are permitted to enrich under the NPT and they have complied with the Comprehensive Safeguards agreement by notifying the IAEA of the new facility.


Intelligence Agencies Say No New Nukes in Iran http://www.newsweek.com/id/215529
There goes a recent article Sept 16, 2009

My friend to sum up our whole debate. All you have done so far and what everyone can see was just attack Irans human rights policy and parts of Islamic law. You or anyone else on this thread have failed to provide proof of a bomb making facility or any links that show proof that one was discovered. You failed in your attempt to show it is a law that you have to be muslim in Iran. You failed in your attempt to show that Iran hates jews when in fact they have a large jewish population and is anti-Israel rather then anti jewish. The trap your falling into and what many other brain dead Americans are falling into is propaganda. I hate saying this a million times but to think we would be smart enough to learn from Iraq. To think that if someone keeps lieing to you they have no credibility. Seems like thats not the case with many Americans as liers are touted as heroes. Truth speakers are silenced not given a voice. It is hard to believe that nobody can see a similarity with Iraq. The demoniazation of that country to the point where we thought it was so evil that they had to have a WMD. Same story with Iran demonize it to the point they are not human and then say, "And you see because he doesnt allow Jews to marry Muslims he must be developing a nuclear weapon to destroy Israel." This secret facility is laughable. Everyone reading this notice how secret is always tossed in front of this. Now when you hear the word secret the brain automatically thinks something supicious or malicious that person didnt want anyone to know. So everytime secret is being used it is for its purpose to further demonize this country to sell this false accusation of a nuclear weapon being made. So the sheep will follow Iran will be attack, 100% of no nuke weapons but a new conflict arised in the middle east and now the US will be involved in that.

People we have to see why the USA isnt liked in this region nor Israel because of these types of lies going on. These two countries talk about peace and democracy but dont actions dont live up to it. We install dictators and end up having to hunt them down. How do you think the people of these countries feel about the USA having known that we helped install horrible dictators? How do you think Palestinians feel about the USA when they know every bomb used to level their ground is made in the USA? If we continue this behavior how will this spiral of hatred for the USA ever end? Do you know how happy the arabs were when Obama got elected? They thought they would see some change especially Afgans, Iraqis, and Palestinians knowing Barack Obama is black and knowing how the blacks been through slavery he could relate to their struggle. Now let down because of the two wars we are still fighting and the continued illegal occupations of Palestine they turn right back to extreme for the answer.

Why do you think that I didn't even mention any of those just so you can't further deviate the original topics? Just like a certain Iranian president did during his official speech addressing the UN General Assembly. What has any of that has got to do with the fact that Iran deliberately tried to conceal their nuclear program once again?

Or are you telling me that it's an Iranian custom to deliberately deceive and conceal, just like how the current Iranian president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad had "won some 62.6% of the vote in an election marked by a high turnout of 85%". When that's mathematically impossible because while his opposition "was propelled" during the final race of the campaign "by young voters using high-tech campaign tactics (over 66% of Iranians are under the age of 30)", not to mention is the fact that his oppositions declared that "there was a shortage of ballot papers and alleged that millions of people had been denied the right to vote", while their "election monitors were not allowed enough access to polling stations", and "the Committee to Protect the People's Votes, a group set up by all three opposition candidates, said the group would not accept the result, alleging fraud".

BTW, since the nation of Iran is under the jurisdiction of their Supreme Jurist Ayatollah Ali Khamenei. This means that only he and the Iranian Guardian Council have "the power to veto legislation it deems inconsistent with revolutionary principles". And since the 1979 Iranian revolution, the Iranian constitution "stipulates that the people are the source of power" while Iran must "holds phased presidential and parliamentary elections every four years". Therefore while Mahmoud Ahmadinejad was only drawing supports "mainly from the urban poor and rural areas" with his same old Holocaust denial of Jews policy since 4 years ago, the Iranian Supreme Jurist Ayatollah Ali Khamenei was showering Mahmoud Ahmadinejad 's electoral victory with favoritism such as "the president's views on foreign affairs and social issues were close to his".


azera wrote:
Wait a minute.......Iran sign the Treaty....and all the attention all focus on the particular nation. Why are you requesting Iran to expose their nuclear facilities when Israel kept on their own for years? Russia, China and Iran has sign the treaty but Israel hasn't. Israel does pose greater threat than Iran alone. Its unfair that all Western nations are directly focusing on Iran. I smell full of bias.


What has that got anything to do with the fact that Iran failed to comply their NPT agreement?


I wanted to address the root of the problem.

Then your problem is that you failed to acknowledge that while Iran did signed the NPT, Israel never did. That's why you smelled yourself being full bias BS.
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Posted 10/11/09 , edited 10/11/09
Before I even tackle that election because it can easily be refuted where is the nuclear weapon regarding what you just posted? Why is he denying the holocaust did you even listen or are you jumping to conclusions? I am just trying to see how all this ties up to a nuke because like I said 1000 times sounds the same like Iraq speak bad about that country then place a mysteriouis weapon never spotted on them

Dont worry I will wait what possibly can you say when the IEIA found none and our intelligance found none..
Posted 10/11/09 , edited 10/11/09

drizza wrote:
Before I even tackle that election because it can easily be refuted where is the nuclear weapon regarding what you just posted? Why is he denying the holocaust did you even listen or are you jumping to conclusions? I am just trying to see how all this ties up to a nuke because like I said 1000 times sounds the same like Iraq speak bad about that country then place a mysteriouis weapon never spotted on them

Dont worry I will wait what possibly can you say when the IEIA found none and our intelligance found none..

Just where did I ever mentioned about the word "nuclear weapon"? in my last post? Or are you deviating the topic again?

All I'm saying is that the Iranian president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's administration had twice failed to comply with their NPT agreement during the past 8 years and counting. And while he didn't even change his ultra conservative campaign policies after his reelection, it shows that he gained 44% of reformist supporters' votes with this so called "divine victory" by the Iranian Supreme Jurist Ayatollah Ali Khamenei; one of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's biggest supporter for his views on foreign affairs(failed to comply NPT agreement twice in 8 years while being a holocaust denier for 4 years and counting) and social issues(appealing the urban poor and rural areas with ultra conservative policies).

So why don't you show me how any of that isn't true. Because ultimately I refuse to do what's suppose to be your homework.
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Posted 10/11/09 , edited 10/11/09

DomFortress wrote:


drizza wrote:
Before I even tackle that election because it can easily be refuted where is the nuclear weapon regarding what you just posted? Why is he denying the holocaust did you even listen or are you jumping to conclusions? I am just trying to see how all this ties up to a nuke because like I said 1000 times sounds the same like Iraq speak bad about that country then place a mysteriouis weapon never spotted on them

Dont worry I will wait what possibly can you say when the IEIA found none and our intelligance found none..

Just where did I ever mentioned about the word "nuclear weapon"? in my last post? Or are you deviating the topic again?

All I'm saying is that the Iranian president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's administration had twice failed to comply with their NPT agreement during the past 8 years and counting. And while he didn't even change his ultra conservative campaign policies after his reelection, it shows that he gained 44% of reformist supporters' votes with this so called "divine victory" by the Iranian Supreme Jurist Ayatollah Ali Khamenei; one of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's biggest supporter for his views on foreign affairs(failed to comply NPT agreement twice in 8 years while being a holocaust denier for 4 years and counting) and social issues(appealing the urban poor and rural areas with ultra conservative policies).

So why don't you show me how any of that isn't true. Because ultimately I refuse to do what's suppose to be your homework.


Well the topic of the thread is about Irans nuclear program your deviating by talking about an election. I can easily counter with Israel un humane actions as well and address the issue of the election. But we are both getting off topic. I want to know how does all this tie up to a weapon thats all. If we continue on spiraling off topic we wont get to the main issue. Now like I stated where is this nuclear weapon. If you found proof please post it otherwise this debate is over.
Posted 10/11/09

drizza wrote:


DomFortress wrote:


drizza wrote:
Before I even tackle that election because it can easily be refuted where is the nuclear weapon regarding what you just posted? Why is he denying the holocaust did you even listen or are you jumping to conclusions? I am just trying to see how all this ties up to a nuke because like I said 1000 times sounds the same like Iraq speak bad about that country then place a mysteriouis weapon never spotted on them

Dont worry I will wait what possibly can you say when the IEIA found none and our intelligance found none..

Just where did I ever mentioned about the word "nuclear weapon"? in my last post? Or are you deviating the topic again?

All I'm saying is that the Iranian president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's administration had twice failed to comply with their NPT agreement during the past 8 years and counting. And while he didn't even change his ultra conservative campaign policies after his reelection, it shows that he gained 44% of reformist supporters' votes with this so called "divine victory" by the Iranian Supreme Jurist Ayatollah Ali Khamenei; one of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's biggest supporter for his views on foreign affairs(failed to comply NPT agreement twice in 8 years while being a holocaust denier for 4 years and counting) and social issues(appealing the urban poor and rural areas with ultra conservative policies).

So why don't you show me how any of that isn't true. Because ultimately I refuse to do what's suppose to be your homework.


Well the topic of the thread is about Irans nuclear program your deviating by talking about an election. I can easily counter with Israel un humane actions as well and address the issue of the election. But we are both getting off topic. I want to know how does all this tie up to a weapon thats all. If we continue on spiraling off topic we wont get to the main issue. Now like I stated where is this nuclear weapon. If you found proof please post it otherwise this debate is over.

This debate was about the Iranian nuclear program and was never about an nuclear weapon, as stated by the original topic starter by SeraphAlford. He also left backgrounds and references to support his view that:

Personally, I think Iran’s just asking for trouble. The last time they attempted to produce nuclear weapons Israel preemptively bombed them and pretty much said, “And we’ll do it again.” The Iranians feel that Israel and the United States are robbing them of their right to use nuclear power which would allow them to power their cities without using oil-which they prefer to trade abroad.
Now tell me, did he ever personally claimed that Iran has a nuclear weapon?

And now I ask: Were the two incidents that Iranians had failed to comply with their NPT agreement happened during president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's administration? Was the Iranian president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad got reelected this year for his ultra conservative campaign policies that led to those two failures of NPT compliance? Were those ultra conservative campaign policies had anything to do with the nation of Israeli because they talked about holocaust denials for 4 years and counting? And finally, just what has any of that got to do with the fact that while during the Iranian president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's administration, the president irresponsibly hid the Iranian nuclear program for 18 years until 2002, and tried to conceal an Iranian nuclear site in 2009? Even though Iran weren't suppose to do so, due to the fact that they signed and agreed with the NPT back in 1968. Could it be that the majority of the Iranians wanted a deliberately deceiving and conceiving Mahmoud Ahmadinejad' as a president? When he denied the holocaust and never said anything about the fact that he tried to conceal an entire Iranian nuclear site from IAEA during the UN General assembly. If he was indeed building a nuclear facility for energy purpose, then why he gone through the trouble of concealing it in the first place? He could let the IAEA know ahead of time, even before the US intelligence found out about them concealing the site.
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Posted 10/11/09 , edited 10/11/09
I will continue with this tomorow I am getting sleepy and right now am too lazy to look up links and write long paragraphs. Just to add a side note that paragraph you posted by the OP it reads "The last time Iran tried to produce nuclear weapons...." Anyways see you tomorrow.
Posted 10/11/09 , edited 10/11/09

drizza wrote:
I will continue with this tomorow I am getting sleepy and right now am too lazy to look up links and write long paragraphs. Just to add a side note that paragraph you posted by the OP it reads "The last time Iran tried to produce nuclear weapons...." Anyways see you tomorrow.

"Tried to produce" is different than actually having a nuclear weapon.

And you can just answer all of my question with either yes, no, or a simple no comment. Anyone of the above reply will do. I don't want to here anymore of your excuse, now that I've boiled the topic down to these keynotes:

A. The Iranians had twice failed to comply with their NPT agreement, which happened during president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's administration via:
1. hid the Iranian nuclear program for 18 years until 2002 and,
2. tried to conceal an Iranian nuclear site in 2009

B. The Iranian president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad got reelected this year for his ultra conservative campaign policies, who had irresponsibly caused those two failures of NPT compliance during his administration

C. Some of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's ultra conservative campaign policies had to do with the nation of Israeli because they talked about holocaust denials

D. The recent Mahmoud Ahmadinejad reelection victory as according to the Iranian Supreme Jurist Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, suggested that the majority of Iranian voters as well as himself, are in favor with his ultra conservative campaign policies, which include Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's 4 years old holocaust denials.

Therefore I highly recommend that you stick to the framework within those keynotes. Otherwise you'll be wasting not just my time, but yours as well. I'll even give you a hint: I left you an opening in one of my keynotes. Because it's not fun for me when you can't fight back even on my own terms.
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Posted 10/12/09

digs wrote:

No offense (and I'm not acting on anger, I respect you) but please stop saying all my opinions are propaganda and bias against Iran. Please address the content so we can adequately discuss. I supported my opinions with proof that can't be ignored. If I must go into my personal life I will. When I was younger my babysitter was an Iranian Muslim woman who fled the country (I believe during the Islamic revolution because she was a Sunni). I would stay at her house and she would babysit us. I don't hate Iran and I don't hate the Iranian people. I believe my opinion because I see the facts that Iran is racist towards Israel, they do oppress religious minorities and fellow Muslims. Ahmedinejad says Israel has no right to exist, and his beliefs are Jihadist and extremist in nature. Iran repeatedly lies to the UN and the international community. They should never have nuclear weapons, the world is being too soft on them just like they were with Hitler.


Of course, that's what we called discussion. We all respecting each other's opinion, questioning and seeks the truth from any singles of us. Thus, we gained knowledge through it. However, when we looked again to your statement few pages back. You said something like, "Ahmadinejad is crazy, he is nut case, Iran is a world problem. Moreover saying President from another country 'crazy terrorist' when he freely walked around in New York with intention to talk with US government (which is being turned down by US government with no reason)'"in page 3 and saying Iranian people other than muslim doesn't have freedom to practice their belief which is totally results of biased media and prejudiced that you took literally from it. You know, there are Jews in Iran, right? (I know, same to Israel. There are Arabs in there). And also in Israel-Palestine thread. you also posted something like "All Middle-Eastern are racist".

Okay, no offense, after all we're entitled to our opinions. But, Anyone who've seen your posts condemning people in different countries would most likely assume that you're being biased and thus have bad prejudice towards people in Middle East. Well, no offense to you. I see what my eyes told me, so no offense. As saying goes "Your (biased)opinion doesn't matter"
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Posted 10/12/09

DomFortress wrote:

I know you're smarter than that, so don't let yourself be deceived by those who lack ethics.


Maybe so, because I didn't pay attention and could care less about media ethics wherever they have sources and wrote the news without removing the original content. After all, an information always based from another information gathered together. That's what it called Associated Press (AP)

As far as I know, there's no problem with the sources here.
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