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Post Reply Everyone goes to Heaven
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Posted 3/19/08 , edited 4/18/08
There are hints all over that he IS the Son of God. Jesus could easily prove himself, but he didn't. Satan's method was this 'IF you are the Son of God, do this.'

Jesus was firmly established in God's words to Him. The Heavens opened and God said to him, 'This is my son, in whom i am well pleased.' For Jesus, God's words is his identity. Unlike people and man, who identify themselves with their ideas, their jobs, their works (People always state their occupation, 'what are you?' I'm a businessman, I'm a teacher' Or 'I'm a philosopher, mathematician whatever.'

Jesus didn't even bother to entertain Satan, because he KNEW exactly who he was. That's the greatest form of confidence and inward assurance and prove of his faith in the words of God. The beauty of God is to conceal his best gifts, and should anyone genuinely seek Him, and not His miracles or blessings, then they will leave a happy life dependent on the Lord. For He himself says that should anyone depend on the Lord, they will not lack.

The picture of Jesus, of all occupations is this. He is a shepherd. Why? Sheeps don't do anything, but follow. You see, they aren't proud animals. They stray once in a while, trying to look for the best patch of grass, not believing that the shepherd will lead them to the best. But while 1 gets lost, Jesus will leave the 99 to look for the 1 sheep. He doesn't even put in a halfhearted effort, He will seek until he finds the sheep, carries it on his shoulder and throws a party for its return!

Sheeps just have to be dependent on the shepherd. They will be loved and cared for.

In fact, religion is a perversion of the devil. To create imitations of cases where God exists elsewhere, or is polytheistic. A lot of them are very similar, some totally radical. But no doctrine focusses on love. No other considers about a God providing for them. They focus on the Old testament, the Law. Things man need to do to attain transcendental status, or enlightenment, or immortality, that is to be God. That's exactly the desire of Lucifer when he fell. He wanted to be God. If not, religions resemble extremes, like the outward form of holiness, doing good deeds as a mandatory practice. Or they have bondages. Bondage to others, especially in cases of Japanese religion, a lot of focus is being emphasized in dependence on another. The idea of God is that it lives within, spirituality is experienced by opening oneself to the souls of objects. Animistic. Or else it's hierachical, how someone can be 'more spiritual' and thus get closer to God.

Christianity is radical in the sense that those who really focus on God and Jesus himself don't abide by religious practices. These motives are self-driven, by the hunger to know Jesus, or be exposed to the good news. I won't agree with anyone trying to secure a religion because they are looking for salvation. That's personal interests isn't it? Jesus himself says that apart from Him, the narrow gate, the rest all lead to sheol.

But!

God calls his children, and all of us are his children. Some won't accept Him, but nobody knows when each of us is called. That calling can be supernatural, or seem very natural. A thought to search for something leads to something that touches you can be from God. A kid smiles at you and you see something that urges you can be another sign. Or even overhearing someone talk about baptism can be another sign. One never really knows, because God is the one with the wisdom. A calling may not be responded by someone immediately, it does not mean that someone has rejected God the moment they sense 'christian doctrine!' eject! I have absolute trust that whatever God does, it's always for the good.

An act of simple faith always seems foolish, but when it's placed in the right place, you can reap a lot of joy from it. Some people put their faith in their own performances, which is ok, but what if you fail? (I can go on longer, but i have no time)


I won't comment so openly across board that catholics are wrong, christians are right, because I don't care abotu that. Neither does Jesus care. What I'm interested in is Jesus and the teachings of Jesus. A father delights when one delights in His son. To label 'catholics and christians' is an application of religion. Like I said before, I am not interested in that. You can be a christian and never be saved because of a haughty heart, and can be a satanist and still get saved by grace. Rivrstyx said something which the Bible agrees with. For we are saved by grace alone, other than accepting the grace extended to us, none of us will be saved. It's not about choosing which path is better for salvation.
Posted 3/19/08 , edited 4/18/08

digs wrote:

Know, Judgment is based on action. And the Catholic Church is far from conservative. It's hypocritical and feeds lies to people to appease them. If they go directly against what the Bible says, then they aren't really Christian.


Judgment is based on what you know. Say you did not know stealing was wrong as a child and you stole candy. Do you expect God to condemn you for ignorance, especially ignorance in youth? If judgment was based on action, no one would ever get into heaven. As Jesus said on the cross, "Forgive them Father, they know not what they do". The Catholics are by far conservative as they follow the letter of the law.
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Posted 3/19/08 , edited 4/18/08
Wait, what are you trying to prove or say? Is there some debate about Christianity vs Cathecism, and people are taking sides? Or are we talking about the criteria in which God judges?

Who are any of you to determine and accurately say how He does it?
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Posted 3/20/08 , edited 4/18/08
When I meant we are judged by action, I mean what we do with our faith. The reason people can't go to heaven is because they have sin. God is a perfect and holy Being. He cannot have sin in his presence, which is why he sent Jesus as the Messiah to die on the cross and pay for the sins of the world, past, present, and future. Even if we believe in something and "search" we are still hell bound. Nothing but the blood of Christ can forgive sins. All we have to do is ask and repent and we are forgiven by God's loving grace. If people are "searching" for the truth, they are rejecting Christ. If people reject the word of God when they hear or find it, they are sinning. It doesn't matter how hard we try, we can't save ourselves. If someone searches, God gives them the gospel, it's up to them if they want to accept it or not.
Posted 3/20/08 , edited 4/18/08

digs wrote:

When I meant we are judged by action, I mean what we do with our faith. The reason people can't go to heaven is because they have sin. God is a perfect and holy Being. He cannot have sin in his presence, which is why he sent Jesus as the Messiah to die on the cross and pay for the sins of the world, past, present, and future. Even if we believe in something and "search" we are still hell bound. Nothing but the blood of Christ can forgive sins. All we have to do is ask and repent and we are forgiven by God's loving grace. If people are "searching" for the truth, they are rejecting Christ. If people reject the word of God when they hear or find it, they are sinning. It doesn't matter how hard we try, we can't save ourselves. If someone searches, God gives them the gospel, it's up to them if they want to accept it or not.


What about the Delai Lama? Is he going to Hell? Because he is not Christian, according to your logic, he is going to Hell even though he does great works of good and is persecuted for being righteous? No. He will not go to Hell. How about a child that only lasted a day? Does it go to Hell because it did not except God? No. It does not go to Hell. Are people who have never heard of God or Christ going to Hell? No. Not even if they practice another religion. Are all jews, muslims, buddhists, hindis, confusianists, taoists, shintoists, zoroastrians, and all other non-christian religious people going to Hell? No. Many people have never heard of God. More importantly, they do good works and live morally. If you live morally, you will enter the Gates of Heaven. Now rejecting Christ is a different matter. No arguement there. But by saying you will go to Hell if you don't accept Christ, you say half the world is going to Hell. Not to mention, it is not up to you how to judge. That is for God to decide. Who knows, maybe he has a liberal policy on the subject.
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Posted 3/20/08 , edited 4/18/08
Yes, the Dali Lama is going to hell. He might do good things, but he still has sin, our works can not forgive us. Little children are innocent, they haven't had the chance to choose or not, I believe that God lets them into heaven because he is merciful and good. I believe anyone who hasn't accepted the gift of God is going to hell, if we haven't been forgiven, then we can't enter heaven. It's not God's fault, it's ours.
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Posted 3/20/08 , edited 4/18/08

skygod333 wrote:


digs wrote:

When I meant we are judged by action, I mean what we do with our faith. The reason people can't go to heaven is because they have sin. God is a perfect and holy Being. He cannot have sin in his presence, which is why he sent Jesus as the Messiah to die on the cross and pay for the sins of the world, past, present, and future. Even if we believe in something and "search" we are still hell bound. Nothing but the blood of Christ can forgive sins. All we have to do is ask and repent and we are forgiven by God's loving grace. If people are "searching" for the truth, they are rejecting Christ. If people reject the word of God when they hear or find it, they are sinning. It doesn't matter how hard we try, we can't save ourselves. If someone searches, God gives them the gospel, it's up to them if they want to accept it or not.


What about the Delai Lama? Is he going to Hell? Because he is not Christian, according to your logic, he is going to Hell even though he does great works of good and is persecuted for being righteous? No. He will not go to Hell. How about a child that only lasted a day? Does it go to Hell because it did not except God? No. It does not go to Hell. Are people who have never heard of God or Christ going to Hell? No. Not even if they practice another religion. Are all jews, muslims, buddhists, hindis, confusianists, taoists, shintoists, zoroastrians, and all other non-christian religious people going to Hell? No. Many people have never heard of God. More importantly, they do good works and live morally. If you live morally, you will enter the Gates of Heaven. Now rejecting Christ is a different matter. No arguement there. But by saying you will go to Hell if you don't accept Christ, you say half the world is going to Hell. Not to mention, it is not up to you how to judge. That is for God to decide. Who knows, maybe he has a liberal policy on the subject.


John 14.6 - "Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me" (NIV).

Ephesians 2.8-9 - "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast" (NIV).
Posted 3/20/08 , edited 4/18/08
^That doesn't mean you go to Hell if you don't know about Jesus.
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Posted 3/20/08 , edited 4/18/08

skygod333 wrote:

^That doesn't mean you go to Hell if you don't know about Jesus.


it doesn't mean you dont either, it's up to interpretation, which is where the fault lies. Everyone has different experiences in life and that laregly influences theology. One's theology influences the exegesis (interpretation) of biblical scriptures (though the first verse does say that they wont be saved).

As far as babies and small children, it is largely believed that until people reach a certain age there is an innocence that resides within the child that keeps them from hell... though it's debated amongst scholars what that age really is :S
Posted 3/20/08 , edited 4/18/08

RivrStyx wrote:


skygod333 wrote:

^That doesn't mean you go to Hell if you don't know about Jesus.


it doesn't mean you dont either, it's up to interpretation, which is where the fault lies. Everyone has different experiences in life and that laregly influences theology. One's theology influences the exegesis (interpretation) of biblical scriptures (though the first verse does say that they wont be saved).

As far as babies and small children, it is largely believed that until people reach a certain age there is an innocence that resides within the child that keeps them from hell... though it's debated amongst scholars what that age really is :S


Yes it does. If you don't even know, how do pray to Christ and be saved?
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Posted 3/20/08 , edited 4/18/08

skygod333 wrote:


RivrStyx wrote:


skygod333 wrote:

^That doesn't mean you go to Hell if you don't know about Jesus.


it doesn't mean you dont either, it's up to interpretation, which is where the fault lies. Everyone has different experiences in life and that laregly influences theology. One's theology influences the exegesis (interpretation) of biblical scriptures (though the first verse does say that they wont be saved).

As far as babies and small children, it is largely believed that until people reach a certain age there is an innocence that resides within the child that keeps them from hell... though it's debated amongst scholars what that age really is :S


Yes it does. If you don't even know, how do pray to Christ and be saved?


hense why missionaries are sent out.

some believe that those who are not reached are placed into a seperate area (purgetory or whatever) to make a decision. Whether you want to believe that or not is really up to you.
Posted 3/20/08 , edited 4/18/08

RivrStyx wrote:


skygod333 wrote:


RivrStyx wrote:


skygod333 wrote:

^That doesn't mean you go to Hell if you don't know about Jesus.


it doesn't mean you dont either, it's up to interpretation, which is where the fault lies. Everyone has different experiences in life and that laregly influences theology. One's theology influences the exegesis (interpretation) of biblical scriptures (though the first verse does say that they wont be saved).

As far as babies and small children, it is largely believed that until people reach a certain age there is an innocence that resides within the child that keeps them from hell... though it's debated amongst scholars what that age really is :S


Yes it does. If you don't even know, how do pray to Christ and be saved?


hense why missionaries are sent out.

some believe that those who are not reached are placed into a seperate area (purgetory or whatever) to make a decision. Whether you want to believe that or not is really up to you.


What about nomads in the Gobi and Sahara deserts? There are no missionaries in those hellish regions. If you honestly try to good and live morally, you will go to heaven. End of story. Even Magnus has a shot there.
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Posted 3/20/08 , edited 4/18/08

skygod333 wrote:
What about nomads in the Gobi and Sahara deserts? There are no missionaries in those hellish regions. If you honestly try to good and live morally, you will go to heaven. End of story. Even Magnus has a shot there.


maybe I'm repeating myself here... but


Ephesians 2.8-9 - For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast.


also, make sure you read everything I wrote...

some believe that those who are not reached are placed into a seperate area (purgetory or whatever) to make a decision. Whether you want to believe that or not is really up to you


I can't say I know how people will be judged. but the Bible gives some decent ideas as to how it will happen.
Posted 3/20/08 , edited 4/18/08

RivrStyx wrote:


skygod333 wrote:
What about nomads in the Gobi and Sahara deserts? There are no missionaries in those hellish regions. If you honestly try to good and live morally, you will go to heaven. End of story. Even Magnus has a shot there.


maybe I'm repeating myself here... but


Ephesians 2.8-9 - For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast.


also, make sure you read everything I wrote...

some believe that those who are not reached are placed into a seperate area (purgetory or whatever) to make a decision. Whether you want to believe that or not is really up to you


I can't say I know how people will be judged. but the Bible gives some decent ideas as to how it will happen.


You're missing the point. The point is that some have no way of knowing about Christ. By your logic, they go to Hell. Also according to you, we're all created in God's image and we're all his children and he wants us all with him. By your logic, God created some people to be damned no matter what. Since I know that's not the case, you go to heaven if you genuinely try to live morally.
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Posted 3/20/08 , edited 4/18/08

skygod333 wrote:
You're missing the point. The point is that some have no way of knowing about Christ. By your logic, they go to Hell. Also according to you, we're all created in God's image and we're all his children and he wants us all with him. By your logic, God created some people to be damned no matter what. Since I know that's not the case, you go to heaven if you genuinely try to live morally.


I'm not missing the point:

some believe that those who are not reached are placed into a seperate area (purgetory or whatever) to make a decision. Whether you want to believe that or not is really up to you


God created no one to be damned, but he created everyone with a free will and if they have rejected Christ then they will burn. If they do not know Christ... well I dont know, but neither do you.

I've taken 3 years of Bible College so far so this topic isn't something that never comes up.

plus, I've backed up my arguments with Bible verses... i can also find other sources if you'd like... but i haven't seen any evidence from your point of view, if you can find a few bible verses that support this it might lend you some credit
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