First  Prev  1  2  3  Next  Last
Post Reply Everyone goes to Heaven
Posted 3/20/08 , edited 4/18/08

RivrStyx wrote:


skygod333 wrote:
You're missing the point. The point is that some have no way of knowing about Christ. By your logic, they go to Hell. Also according to you, we're all created in God's image and we're all his children and he wants us all with him. By your logic, God created some people to be damned no matter what. Since I know that's not the case, you go to heaven if you genuinely try to live morally.


I'm not missing the point:

some believe that those who are not reached are placed into a seperate area (purgetory or whatever) to make a decision. Whether you want to believe that or not is really up to you


God created no one to be damned, but he created everyone with a free will and if they have rejected Christ then they will burn. If they do not know Christ... well I dont know, but neither do you.

I've taken 3 years of Bible College so far so this topic isn't something that never comes up.


I never said they rejected Christ. I'm saying that they have no means to know about Christ. That is not rejection.
Member
747 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
29 / M / BC, Canada
Offline
Posted 3/20/08 , edited 4/18/08

skygod333 wrote:


RivrStyx wrote:


skygod333 wrote:
You're missing the point. The point is that some have no way of knowing about Christ. By your logic, they go to Hell. Also according to you, we're all created in God's image and we're all his children and he wants us all with him. By your logic, God created some people to be damned no matter what. Since I know that's not the case, you go to heaven if you genuinely try to live morally.


I'm not missing the point:

some believe that those who are not reached are placed into a seperate area (purgetory or whatever) to make a decision. Whether you want to believe that or not is really up to you


God created no one to be damned, but he created everyone with a free will and if they have rejected Christ then they will burn. If they do not know Christ... well I dont know, but neither do you.

I've taken 3 years of Bible College so far so this topic isn't something that never comes up.


I never said they rejected Christ. I'm saying that they have no means to know about Christ. That is not rejection.


is that all you're reading? the first line of whatever I type? cause maybe you should try reading the whole thing. I'm not arguing trying to argue with you, I'm playing devil's advocate.
Posted 3/20/08 , edited 4/18/08

RivrStyx wrote:


skygod333 wrote:


RivrStyx wrote:


skygod333 wrote:
You're missing the point. The point is that some have no way of knowing about Christ. By your logic, they go to Hell. Also according to you, we're all created in God's image and we're all his children and he wants us all with him. By your logic, God created some people to be damned no matter what. Since I know that's not the case, you go to heaven if you genuinely try to live morally.


I'm not missing the point:

some believe that those who are not reached are placed into a seperate area (purgetory or whatever) to make a decision. Whether you want to believe that or not is really up to you


God created no one to be damned, but he created everyone with a free will and if they have rejected Christ then they will burn. If they do not know Christ... well I dont know, but neither do you.

I've taken 3 years of Bible College so far so this topic isn't something that never comes up.


I never said they rejected Christ. I'm saying that they have no means to know about Christ. That is not rejection.


is that all you're reading? the first line of whatever I type? cause maybe you should try reading the whole thing. I'm not arguing trying to argue with you, I'm playing devil's advocate.


Fine. I reject what you're saying. I believe everyone has an equal shot at getting into heaven when living morally.
Member
747 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
29 / M / BC, Canada
Offline
Posted 3/20/08 , edited 4/18/08

skygod333 wrote:


RivrStyx wrote:


skygod333 wrote:


RivrStyx wrote:


skygod333 wrote:
You're missing the point. The point is that some have no way of knowing about Christ. By your logic, they go to Hell. Also according to you, we're all created in God's image and we're all his children and he wants us all with him. By your logic, God created some people to be damned no matter what. Since I know that's not the case, you go to heaven if you genuinely try to live morally.


I'm not missing the point:

some believe that those who are not reached are placed into a seperate area (purgetory or whatever) to make a decision. Whether you want to believe that or not is really up to you


God created no one to be damned, but he created everyone with a free will and if they have rejected Christ then they will burn. If they do not know Christ... well I dont know, but neither do you.

I've taken 3 years of Bible College so far so this topic isn't something that never comes up.


I never said they rejected Christ. I'm saying that they have no means to know about Christ. That is not rejection.


is that all you're reading? the first line of whatever I type? cause maybe you should try reading the whole thing. I'm not arguing trying to argue with you, I'm playing devil's advocate.


Fine. I reject what you're saying. I believe everyone has an equal shot at getting into heaven when living morally.


have you got some Bible verses that back that up? trust me, it makes arguments much stronger.
Posted 3/20/08 , edited 4/18/08

RivrStyx wrote:


skygod333 wrote:


RivrStyx wrote:


skygod333 wrote:


RivrStyx wrote:


skygod333 wrote:
You're missing the point. The point is that some have no way of knowing about Christ. By your logic, they go to Hell. Also according to you, we're all created in God's image and we're all his children and he wants us all with him. By your logic, God created some people to be damned no matter what. Since I know that's not the case, you go to heaven if you genuinely try to live morally.


I'm not missing the point:

some believe that those who are not reached are placed into a seperate area (purgetory or whatever) to make a decision. Whether you want to believe that or not is really up to you


God created no one to be damned, but he created everyone with a free will and if they have rejected Christ then they will burn. If they do not know Christ... well I dont know, but neither do you.

I've taken 3 years of Bible College so far so this topic isn't something that never comes up.


I never said they rejected Christ. I'm saying that they have no means to know about Christ. That is not rejection.


is that all you're reading? the first line of whatever I type? cause maybe you should try reading the whole thing. I'm not arguing trying to argue with you, I'm playing devil's advocate.


Fine. I reject what you're saying. I believe everyone has an equal shot at getting into heaven when living morally.


have you got some Bible verses that back that up?


I don't have to. Firstly, it's a belief. Secondly, I draw it partly from my Catholic teaching (No I'm not Catholic, I go to a Catholic school). I could get you my Theology book if it's that dire. Thridly, I base this partly on my own practical judgment and logic. I don't need to Bible to tell me I'm right on this one.
Member
747 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
29 / M / BC, Canada
Offline
Posted 3/20/08 , edited 4/18/08

skygod333 wrote:
I don't have to. Firstly, it's a belief. Secondly, I draw it partly from my Catholic teaching (No I'm not Catholic, I go to a Catholic school). I could get you my Theology book if it's that dire. Thridly, I base this partly on my own practical judgment and logic. I don't need to Bible to tell me I'm right on this one.


http://www.gotquestions.org/Catholic-Biblical.html

Salvation: The Roman Catholic Church teaches that salvation is by baptismal regeneration and is maintained through the Catholic sacraments unless a willful act of sin is committed that breaks the state of sanctifying grace. The Bible teaches that we are saved by grace which is received through simple faith (Ephesians 2:8-9), and that good works are the result of a change of the heart wrought in salvation (Ephesians 2:10; 2 Corinthians 5:17) and the fruit of that new life in Christ (John 15).

Assurance of salvation: The Roman Catholic Church teaches that salvation cannot be guaranteed or assured. 1 John 5:13 states that the letter of 1 John was written for the purpose of assuring believers of the CERTAINTY of their salvation.


What one believes and what the Bible (God's word) says must run parallel. you ALWAYS need the Bible
Posted 3/20/08 , edited 4/18/08

RivrStyx wrote:


skygod333 wrote:
I don't have to. Firstly, it's a belief. Secondly, I draw it partly from my Catholic teaching (No I'm not Catholic, I go to a Catholic school). I could get you my Theology book if it's that dire. Thridly, I base this partly on my own practical judgment and logic. I don't need to Bible to tell me I'm right on this one.


http://www.gotquestions.org/Catholic-Biblical.html

Salvation: The Roman Catholic Church teaches that salvation is by baptismal regeneration and is maintained through the Catholic sacraments unless a willful act of sin is committed that breaks the state of sanctifying grace. The Bible teaches that we are saved by grace which is received through simple faith (Ephesians 2:8-9), and that good works are the result of a change of the heart wrought in salvation (Ephesians 2:10; 2 Corinthians 5:17) and the fruit of that new life in Christ (John 15).

Assurance of salvation: The Roman Catholic Church teaches that salvation cannot be guaranteed or assured. 1 John 5:13 states that the letter of 1 John was written for the purpose of assuring believers of the CERTAINTY of their salvation.


What one believes and what the Bible (God's word) says must run parallel. you ALWAYS need the Bible


Jesus died to save us all. We are all saved, not just his followers.
Member
747 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
29 / M / BC, Canada
Offline
Posted 3/20/08 , edited 4/18/08

skygod333 wrote:


RivrStyx wrote:


skygod333 wrote:
I don't have to. Firstly, it's a belief. Secondly, I draw it partly from my Catholic teaching (No I'm not Catholic, I go to a Catholic school). I could get you my Theology book if it's that dire. Thridly, I base this partly on my own practical judgment and logic. I don't need to Bible to tell me I'm right on this one.


http://www.gotquestions.org/Catholic-Biblical.html

Salvation: The Roman Catholic Church teaches that salvation is by baptismal regeneration and is maintained through the Catholic sacraments unless a willful act of sin is committed that breaks the state of sanctifying grace. The Bible teaches that we are saved by grace which is received through simple faith (Ephesians 2:8-9), and that good works are the result of a change of the heart wrought in salvation (Ephesians 2:10; 2 Corinthians 5:17) and the fruit of that new life in Christ (John 15).

Assurance of salvation: The Roman Catholic Church teaches that salvation cannot be guaranteed or assured. 1 John 5:13 states that the letter of 1 John was written for the purpose of assuring believers of the CERTAINTY of their salvation.


What one believes and what the Bible (God's word) says must run parallel. you ALWAYS need the Bible


Jesus died to save us all. We are all saved, not just his followers.


but we also have to accept him as our savior... look this discussion is going around in a circle. It's the classic senerio of catholic views verses protistant views. Neither are 100% right.
Scientist Moderator
digs 
48142 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
26 / M
Offline
Posted 3/20/08 , edited 4/18/08
Not really, because Christianity is truth.

1. We are ALL sinners
2. Because of our sin we are hell bound.
3. Jesus died for the sins of the world.
4. If we accept the gift of God's grace our sins our forgiven.
5. We may enter heaven and have a relationship with the Father.

It doesn't matter if we are good, It doesn't matter if we believe in any religion. The truth is without Jesus' grace and mercy, we are not forgiven. Without repentance we cannot receive forgiveness. If we are not forgiven, we have sin, which is why we would go to hell. If we could save ourselves God wouldn't have sent Jesus to die on the cross.
Member
747 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
29 / M / BC, Canada
Offline
Posted 3/20/08 , edited 4/18/08

digs wrote:

Not really, because Christianity is truth.

1. We are ALL sinners
2. Because of our sin we are hell bound.
3. Jesus died for the sins of the world.
4. If we accept the gift of God's grace our sins our forgiven.
5. We may enter heaven and have a relationship with the Father.

It doesn't matter if we are good, It doesn't matter if we believe in any religion. The truth is without Jesus' grace and mercy, we are not forgiven. Without repentance we cannot receive forgiveness. If we are not forgiven, we have sin, which is why we would go to hell. If we could save ourselves God wouldn't have sent Jesus to die on the cross.


true, saved by grace through faith. But we cannot spend our whole lives doing bad if we believe, our belief and faith should encourage us to do good... Also, the bible has many commands to do good works http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/good/long.html and it is important to do these good works or we are not living as Christ did. I know people who, when brought to Christ have done marvelous things. being saved changes people and spurrs them on the do good deeds.

Being saved, to me, means grace through faith leading to good deeds. Good deeds helps to show the world what it is to be Christ-like and I think that it really brings joy to God and that is what is important. It's not a matter of being saved so much as it is a matter of bringing joy to God through the time he has given us.

I also think that everyone has the chance to be saved, even magnus (and even if it doesn't look like it his view is very important to me). Those who will never hear of God also have a chance, I think, because God gives them a chance after they have died.


Hebrews 10.24 - And let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds.
Member
2697 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
M / at the computer
Offline
Posted 3/25/08 , edited 4/18/08

Hitoli wrote:


xxxanimewinryxxx wrote:

hmmm, for that ... well, actually we have the same situation. there is this school nurse in our academy and she asked our class "Who would like to go to heaven?" and everyone raised their hand (so do I) Then she asked those who raised their hands that "Why are you sure you're going to heaven?" Then they just answered "Because I'm worthy to go to heaven"

I just laughed. Cause actually the correct answer is "Because I received Jesus Christ as my Personal Lord and Savior." Though whatever I do, they just won't conclude anything about receiving Jesus Christ as their Personal Savior.


Wow, did really everyone raise their hands?

I've actually thought about the whole idea of Heaven for a long time. It's said to be the perfect place, and everyone is happy and stuff. But well, I love happiness a lot. But sometimes, I'm ok with being sad. Sometimes I want to be mean, or I want people to be mean to me. Not because I like it, but at times it just feels good. Feeling happy - always, that wouldn't be my thing. I like being sad at times. It makes me think beautiful thinks, it makes me able to write stories or poems or draw something beautiful.

I know it sounds weird and stupid, but if Heaven really is such a perfect place, I'd rather not go there.
I wouldn't want to go to a place filled with pain and stuff (Hell) either, but earth is just fine for me.

Ehm, yeah, this is a bit offtopic. Sorry.


I kind of understand what you're saying. Pain allows you to feel alive. It gets adrinaline pumping. The problem is this, the world is coming to an end.

A visual example of this: You are at the edge of a radius of a nuclear explosion at a railstation in your hometown and you have a very short time to escape from that place. You can stay in your hometown, clinging to your past with all your might until the bomb explodes. The explosion itself might not kill you, but the radiation fallout will cause you immense pain, unlike anything you've ever dealt with until the moment you die. The second choice is board the train with your family, and leave for a better place. You and your family survives the disaster and live in joyous times with your family.

Your hometown in the story is earth. The radiation poisoning and unbearable pain is eternity in hell. You cannot escape hell by simply dying, like the person in the above story did to escape the radiation poisoning. Escape with your family is heaven. If you cling to earth so tight, you will be lost to hell without a chance to go with your family to heaven. Which would you rather do?
Member
23685 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
29 / F
Offline
Posted 3/26/08 , edited 4/18/08
Hitoli's left the group, kind of a pity. hope she reads and replies to us
Member
2697 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
M / at the computer
Offline
Posted 3/27/08 , edited 4/18/08

magnus102 wrote:

For me there would be a lot of pain in heaven. To think of everyone in hell would make me sick. I do not think I could ever be happy knowing people were being punished FOREVER. I would despise it. If god alters memory so we forget those people, then I would rather go to hell anyway. If you alter someones memory they cease being themselves.


It makes me sad. Sad that so many people rejected the truth. I hate knowing that there are countless more going to hell because they haven't even heard of Jesus. However, All the evidence they need is before their eyes. All life is made by God. Without God, nothing would exist. Scientists have broken down molecules to the smallest detail possible. Guess what everything is made out of. That's right! waves, sound waves! God spoke all things into existance. He made it all, and he sustains it all.

Sorry, got off topic for a second. Anyway, I feel the same way about so many people suffering for all eternity, but most chose this path for themselves. Others were decieved. "Enter through the narrow gate, for wide is the gate and broad the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate, narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it." All people must look long and hard for the road that leads to God. There can be no screwing around in searching for God. "Run the race as one to win it." I believe those who seek the narrow road as their life's goal will find it. But they must search for it with all their might. There will be some who claim to be Christians, but will fail to go through the narrow gate for many reasons.

Those who go to hell have no excuse in my opinion. I feel pity for those who are already lost, and fear for those who are still alive and on the wide road. The knowledge that people are headed to eternal suffering is even more motivation to seek out and bring as many lives to God as soon as possible! Magus, you are one of the ones I fear for. Please! I beg you to come to God as soon as possible. Escape from the narrow road! Please!
Moderator
3852 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
31 / M / southern california
Offline
Posted 7/1/08
The idea in itself is flawed, the idea of predestination dismisses the concept itself. The fact that everyone is going to heaven is absurd. Thankfully I am not God or I think I would be a little judgmental and critical of everyday actions. Going into the realm of predestination is a new thread, feel free to jump into the idea if it is not locked already. The concept is that only the elect receive Heaven, that is the one's Christ has chosen and the ones who have accepted Christ into their hearts. I do not believe half the world is going to heaven even. Your telling me that the sinners and convicts are going to achieve the divine gates without the mercy, GRACE, and the blood of Christ?! That is ludicrous and absurd.
First  Prev  1  2  3  Next  Last
You must be logged in to post.