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Opinion: Should Apes be on the Same Moral and legal Footing as Humans?
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Posted 10/7/09

Cuddlebuns wrote:


Darkphoenix3450 wrote:


I turn that right back at you.. If a kid lived in the woods all his life, and did not know of towns, or any form of technology, nor ever had learn to speak. Would he not be given the chance to see the other side and choose for him self. the Ape might just like the idea, but your giving him a one way ticket back to the jungle without knowing what he really wants. Your not letting them have a choice. Your not thinking of them and what they want , your thinking of what you want for them. I am saying let them know of the world, teach them to so we can communicate then ask them what they want.



As for the kid, he might not want to be a part of our society either, but since he is human and humans are materialistic, then chances are that once he knows what it's like to have things then he will want more. And he won't have to worry about intense discrimination because he's human. Apes, as far as we know, are nowhere near as materialistic as we are, so they would have no interest in being a part of a society that advocates obtaining as many material possessions as you can.


Plenty of apes have lived in captivity among humans for at least a hundred years, right? And during that time many of them have been taught to communicate and learned the ways of our society, right? So if any of them had ever had the desire to be a part of our society, to own property, or to be represented in our government, don't you think one would have told their trainer/handler and it would have been all over the news? It's not very wise to assume that just because they are biologically similar to us that they want the same things out of life as us. Have you ever heard of an ape that wasn't just satisfied with having food, shelter, and social interaction? Have you ever thought about how horribly they would be treated if they were integrated into our society? Have you ever thought about nearly impossible it would be to convince the masses that they should be a part of our society? If they're really that smart then they should realize how horrible their lives would become if they were a part of our society. Just look at JJT2's post that I quoted below this, I'm sure that humans would treat apes that way if they were a part of our society. Do you think they really want to live like this?:





First I speak about what you have in red. I can think of two cases where the apes proved you wrong. Do you know who Koko is? She has pet cats she takes care of, she has her favorite tv shows and her brother and her both like to paint. (and come up with names for there paintings.) Apes are much like humans wen it comes to being Materialistic. ( we share that trait. )
'in cases where an ape lives with a human learning about human-things, you find the apes will ask for there own toys as well. You seen the video of the ape playing Pack-man right, she did not force him to play it, its his favorite game he plays it because he likes to play the game. He even ask to play it.


now for the green.. did you think the blacks had it great at the start in America? People are like that, but over time people learn to get along with each other. But over time the apes can get over the religious barbarisms, like other groups/races have. Unlike you I am willing to share my world with other kinds of living intelligent beings, weather it is Aliens, Apes, or even Neanderthals. Man kind learning they have to share there world with others, will only aid Human kind in there own evolution.

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22 / M / Mammago Garage, Y...
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Posted 10/7/09

Darkphoenix3450 wrote:


First I speak about what you have in red. I can think of two cases where the apes proved you wrong. Do you know who Koko is? She has pet cats she takes care of, she has her favorite tv shows and her brother and her both like to paint. (and come up with names for there paintings.) Apes are much like humans wen it comes to being Materialistic. ( we share that trait. )
'in cases where an ape lives with a human learning about human-things, you find the apes will ask for there own toys as well. You seen the video of the ape playing Pack-man right, she did not force him to play it, its his favorite game he plays it because he likes to play the game. He even ask to play it.


Those are only 2 cases. If only a handful of apes want to watch TV and play games then it's no big deal, but when all of them want to then it becomes an issue of integrating them into our society, and I already explained why that can't happen.


now for the green.. did you think the blacks had it great at the start in America? People are like that, but over time people learn to get along with each other. But over time the apes can get over the religious barbarisms, like other groups/races have. Unlike you I am willing to share my world with other kinds of living intelligent beings, weather it is Aliens, Apes, or even Neanderthals. Man kind learning they have to share there world with others, will only aid Human kind in there own evolution.


I am also willing to let other apes be a part of our society. But you and I are in an extremely small group of people who wouldn't mind that happening. We would need the government's approval for that to happen, and as of now they wouldn't allow it for the reasons that I have already stated, mainly that there is no pressure from apes to become a part of our society, and because they, along with the majority of the population, would think that it is stupid and unnecessary.
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Posted 10/7/09

Darkphoenix3450 wrote:


Cuddlebuns wrote:


Darkphoenix3450 wrote:


I turn that right back at you.. If a kid lived in the woods all his life, and did not know of towns, or any form of technology, nor ever had learn to speak. Would he not be given the chance to see the other side and choose for him self. the Ape might just like the idea, but your giving him a one way ticket back to the jungle without knowing what he really wants. Your not letting them have a choice. Your not thinking of them and what they want , your thinking of what you want for them. I am saying let them know of the world, teach them to so we can communicate then ask them what they want.



As for the kid, he might not want to be a part of our society either, but since he is human and humans are materialistic, then chances are that once he knows what it's like to have things then he will want more. And he won't have to worry about intense discrimination because he's human. Apes, as far as we know, are nowhere near as materialistic as we are, so they would have no interest in being a part of a society that advocates obtaining as many material possessions as you can.


Plenty of apes have lived in captivity among humans for at least a hundred years, right? And during that time many of them have been taught to communicate and learned the ways of our society, right? So if any of them had ever had the desire to be a part of our society, to own property, or to be represented in our government, don't you think one would have told their trainer/handler and it would have been all over the news? It's not very wise to assume that just because they are biologically similar to us that they want the same things out of life as us. Have you ever heard of an ape that wasn't just satisfied with having food, shelter, and social interaction? Have you ever thought about how horribly they would be treated if they were integrated into our society? Have you ever thought about nearly impossible it would be to convince the masses that they should be a part of our society? If they're really that smart then they should realize how horrible their lives would become if they were a part of our society. Just look at JJT2's post that I quoted below this, I'm sure that humans would treat apes that way if they were a part of our society. Do you think they really want to live like this?:





First I speak about what you have in red. I can think of two cases where the apes proved you wrong. Do you know who Koko is? She has pet cats she takes care of, she has her favorite tv shows and her brother and her both like to paint. (and come up with names for there paintings.) Apes are much like humans wen it comes to being Materialistic. ( we share that trait. )
'in cases where an ape lives with a human learning about human-things, you find the apes will ask for there own toys as well. You seen the video of the ape playing Pack-man right, she did not force him to play it, its his favorite game he plays it because he likes to play the game. He even ask to play it.


now for the green.. did you think the blacks had it great at the start in America? People are like that, but over time people learn to get along with each other. But over time the apes can get over the religious barbarisms, like other groups/races have. Unlike you I am willing to share my world with other kinds of living intelligent beings, weather it is Aliens, Apes, or even Neanderthals. Man kind learning they have to share there world with others, will only aid Human kind in there own evolution.



hey hey hey, im sure we are all willing to share the world with ALL other creatures, but our society is not the world. Society is corrupted as it is. You shouldnt want these creatures do be subjected to that. And a few apes dont speak for the entire monkey species.I agree with learning from nature, but we should include ourselves in THIER society, not ours. Dont let our egotism corrupt and harm nature more then we have already. We learn from other creatures in thier environment.The way we see the world doesnt exists.

"see the world through thier eyes, be a stranger in a strange land, and maybe we can understand them a little better, and thus understand ourselves..."- yu yu hakusho

"In Rome, do as the Romans". we r so out of tune with nature...we need to retract, thats how we evolve..not with technology, but with nature. Darwin even said this...God professed this...scientists proclaim this...nature demands this...peace over war

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Posted 10/7/09
What are the grounds to put forward such a retarded argument?

Apes as a life forms should be respected as such but, to rise such a primitive creature to the level human beings is preposterous.

The fundamentals of human morality relies on our ability to transfer complex information to one another, and from there to develop thinking.

Besides, caring for creatures for other reason than self-preservation is unnatural.

Read Richard Dawkins, The Selfish Gene

mehhh <3
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Posted 10/7/09 , edited 10/7/09

Nieel wrote:

What are the grounds to put forward such a retarded argument?

Apes as a life forms should be respected as such but, to rise such a primitive creature to the level human beings is preposterous.

The fundamentals of human morality relies on our ability to transfer complex information to one another, and from there to develop thinking.

Besides, caring for creatures for other reason than self-preservation is unnatural.

Read Richard Dawkins, The Selfish Gene

mehhh <3


Humans are apes though, we along with all other apes are members of the Hominoidea superfamily, anything in that superfamily is an ape, so humans are apes. We are actually in the same Tribe (Hominini) as chimpanzees. and the same family (Hominidae aka Great Apes) as Orangutans and Gorillas (as well as Chimps too), so we along with all of them are apes. And chimps aren't primitive creatures either, those little guys are damn smart.



Superfamily : Hominoidea(Apes) ----> Family : Hominidae(Great Apes) -----> Tribe : Hominini ----> Genus Homo (humans) / Pan (chimpanzees)
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Posted 10/7/09
Using your logic and climbing further up the tree of evolution, then going back down but taking another routes we can reach the chicken.

Repeating the same step all over and over we can reach the the potato and the e.coli.

Just because 2 species are within the same family does not make them equal

Keep human moral within the species
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Posted 10/7/09

Allhailodin wrote:


Nieel wrote:

What are the grounds to put forward such a retarded argument?

Apes as a life forms should be respected as such but, to rise such a primitive creature to the level human beings is preposterous.

The fundamentals of human morality relies on our ability to transfer complex information to one another, and from there to develop thinking.

Besides, caring for creatures for other reason than self-preservation is unnatural.

Read Richard Dawkins, The Selfish Gene

mehhh <3


Humans are apes though, we along with all other apes are members of the Hominoidea superfamily, anything in that superfamily is an ape, so humans are apes. We are actually in the same Tribe (Hominini) as chimpanzees. and the same family (Hominidae aka Great Apes) as Orangutans and Gorillas (as well as Chimps too), so we along with all of them are apes. And chimps aren't primitive creatures either, those little guys are damn smart.



Superfamily : Hominoidea(Apes) ----> Family : Hominidae(Great Apes) -----> Tribe : Hominini ----> Genus Homo (humans) / Pan (chimpanzees)


but we have guns and they dont, so humans > other living organisms.

we write the textbooks so we can do that. peace over war
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Posted 10/7/09 , edited 10/7/09

JJT2 wrote:


Allhailodin wrote:


Nieel wrote:

What are the grounds to put forward such a retarded argument?

Apes as a life forms should be respected as such but, to rise such a primitive creature to the level human beings is preposterous.

The fundamentals of human morality relies on our ability to transfer complex information to one another, and from there to develop thinking.

Besides, caring for creatures for other reason than self-preservation is unnatural.

Read Richard Dawkins, The Selfish Gene

mehhh <3


Humans are apes though, we along with all other apes are members of the Hominoidea superfamily, anything in that superfamily is an ape, so humans are apes. We are actually in the same Tribe (Hominini) as chimpanzees. and the same family (Hominidae aka Great Apes) as Orangutans and Gorillas (as well as Chimps too), so we along with all of them are apes. And chimps aren't primitive creatures either, those little guys are damn smart.



Superfamily : Hominoidea(Apes) ----> Family : Hominidae(Great Apes) -----> Tribe : Hominini ----> Genus Homo (humans) / Pan (chimpanzees)


but we have guns and they dont, so humans > other living organisms.

we write the textbooks so we can do that. peace over war


Humans may be > other life on earth, but there is life out there that > Humans by far.

And the point is even with our greater intelligence, were still not above apes because we ourselves are apes.

And a human without a gun would still get completely raped by a bear or lion or tiger, if any of those species had our intelligence they would be > us.

Regardless of our technology ( which 99% of mankind is utterly useless without ) we are still apes, that will not change.
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