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Holocaust Denial
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Posted 10/7/09

DomFortress wrote:

When the two of you are done playing soundbite politicians with your comments based on comic strips, I have here a 575 pages long report based on first hand witnesses and victims regarding the incident in Gaza:http://www2.ohchr.org/english/bodies/hrcouncil/specialsession/9/docs/UNFFMGC_Report.pdf

It's based on a "United Nations Fact Finding Mission on the Gaza Conflict" conducted by the United Nations Human Rights Council: http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=15308

If you're done fooling around, then it's time for you to get seriously up to pace. Otherwise I'm not going to waste my time and effort doing your study for you, when I've got better things to do.


Maybe for you it's sound politicians while we're just saying the fact based on real procedure, countries contrast and injustice sentiments that happening on the world. I posted the comic stripes to describe the situations easier than words. So we all can judge which one is should have rights or not and it's pretty much represent the conflict on the world.

Do you think we can fooling around when we've already wrote all our voice based on credible references and the fact that had been given from International Agency? We are really serious from the first page. Or maybe you just can't accept it and saying we are just fooling around when we know same things might happened to Iran like its neighbor based on false accusation by those childish super power evil nations and ignoring IAEA, CIA and experts report?

What do you think will happened if they still insist to go on against the country that have facility for its people sake, not for invading let along offensive purpose? Numerous of women, elderly and children might loss their lives just because a country doesn't like a country that have different ideology owning the uranium facility?

We are trying to clear up the baseless view that always been created by biased media to its society world widely. That's why, while not trying to bias we put the NPT, procedure and many fact that this country is well-cooperated with International Agency to have its rights. The rights every country should have. and not because of their ideology or negative prejudice.

If you feel the heat or sensitive argument, you can leave it as that is common when people talking about controversial issues like this. But flaming or saying we're fooling around when you can't defense your opinion, that's not nice and should be avoided for further discussion to seek the truth and balance of knowledge. Although, many of us might have done it before but what we're talking is about the future of one country and its innocent lives. We are not cruel enough to abandoned them and against them just because of one's interest.

By the way, thanks for the link. It's pretty well describe how bad Israel is with Human Rights

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Posted 10/7/09

Cuddlebuns wrote:

Wow, I thought holocaust denial was just an internet meme that trolls use to piss people off. I didn't know people actually believed it.

I have absolutely no knowledge or opinion over the Israel/Palestine conflict, nor am I all that passionate about convincing someone that the holocaust did occur, mainly because all I know about it is what I learned from simple high school text books. I'm really interested in hearing arguments against the widely accepted account of the Holocaust, so if you are doing research about it and want to debate it then you can PM me, since I'm not biased either way.


In my opinion, the denial just is one of political agenda to oppose one side. Actually, there are many sources saying Holocaust really happened as it occurred in WW2 and not even 100 years ago and not trying to prove something that happened million years ago by not having eyewitness and evidence, but some denies it for the benefit of some people and political reasons.
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Posted 10/7/09 , edited 10/7/09
Am i considered Holocaust Denier when i question it but i didnt deny it?

I came across forum user questioning the Holocaust, but sad to say that other fellow users quickly label him that.
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Posted 10/7/09

DomFortress wrote:


drizza wrote:

I believe there was a holocaust but not in the context I was taught. I dont feel like I am ready to debate it right now because I am still not confident that everything I read is true. I am still researching and asking questions. When I have everything down I still wont post what I need to say because people tends to just get overly sensitive and angry if you have a different view even if you present it in a non anti-semtic way. I agree with Zane if I open my mouth many people will just jump on me rather then have a sensible debate. Back to to what GDX said the issue is the Israel creation, the amount of Jews killed, and some scientists who researched it said some of the jews werent even executed how we were told they were. I wont go into further detail because like I said I am still new to this information. It is important to understand the past to find out why things are the way they are today.


Ryutai-Desk wrote:


Yei wrote:

Ok but this is very irrelevant. We're talking about why people deny that the Holocaust happened, the Israel/Palestine conflict is a separate issue.


Sadly, Israel making this irrelevant things to get approval from Europe nations and America. Especially, German.
I think Ahmadinejad also believe Holocaust happened, as we also don't deny this tragedy. However, this is political reasons to shake the ideology and actions of what Israel doing right now. Physiological Warfare always being played.

It's amusing whenever Ahmadinejad, a president from a single country in middle-east said it, every leader in Europe and America condemn him and Iran. It looks like they've being ordered to do it.

When the two of you are done playing soundbite politicians with your comments based on comic strips, I have here a 575 pages long report based on first hand witnesses and victims regarding the incident in Gaza:http://www2.ohchr.org/english/bodies/hrcouncil/specialsession/9/docs/UNFFMGC_Report.pdf

It's based on a "United Nations Fact Finding Mission on the Gaza Conflict" conducted by the United Nations Human Rights Council: http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=15308

If you're done fooling around, then it's time for you to get seriously up to pace. Otherwise I'm not going to waste my time and effort doing your study for you, when I've got better things to do.


Lol the hell are you talking about dude? I already know what I need to know about to holocaust why would I revisit that information your posting. Now I want to know about the holocaust deniers and the reason why they are denying it. I am not going to just up and call them an antisemite unless I see what they have to say and what exactly is anti semtic in their findings. Why would they risk jail time for it? And is it even right to jail someone for 5 years this only incident in the whole wide world where if you speak on it your jailed makes no sense to me. Is there something to hide is that why you don want anyone to have a different view? These are the questions I raise when it comes to the holocaust.

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Posted 10/7/09

Cuddlebuns wrote:

Wow, I thought holocaust denial was just an internet meme that trolls use to piss people off. I didn't know people actually believed it.


drizza wrote:

I believe there was a holocaust but not in the context I was taught. I dont feel like I am ready to debate it right now because I am still not confident that everything I read is true. I am still researching and asking questions. When I have everything down I still wont post what I need to say because people tends to just get overly sensitive and angry if you have a different view even if you present it in a non anti-semtic way. I agree with Zane if I open my mouth many people will just jump on me rather then have a sensible debate. Back to to what GDX said the issue is the Israel creation, the amount of Jews killed, and some scientists who researched it said some of the jews werent even executed how we were told they were. I wont go into further detail because like I said I am still new to this information. It is important to understand the past to find out why things are the way they are today.


I have absolutely no knowledge or opinion over the Israel/Palestine conflict, nor am I all that passionate about convincing someone that the holocaust did occur, mainly because all I know about it is what I learned from simple high school text books. I'm really interested in hearing arguments against the widely accepted account of the Holocaust, so if you are doing research about it and want to debate it then you can PM me, since I'm not biased either way.


Well once I get everything down then I will but right now I am still just reading why people deny it and their evidence. I appreciate your open mindness though.
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Posted 10/7/09

Yei wrote:

This goes for both the Nazi and Japanese Holocausts, what do people hope to achieve by denying they happened?

I had a big argument with a Holocaust-denier in school today, and I still can't understand what the point of doing it is. So they don't have to feel sorry for the people that died?


it's all based on brainwashing..."those who control the present control the past, those who control the past, control the future"- Goerge Owell


Forgetting that 2+2=4, and forgeting you forgot 2+2=4.

all of a sudden, 2+2 does not equal 4.

Its the same with the Holocaust.peace over war
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digs 
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Posted 10/7/09 , edited 10/7/09
I think most deny the holocaust based on hatred for Israel and racism towards Jews. The vast majority of holocaust deniers are people who hate Israel and believe the Imams that scream death to Jews and to Israel. They believe it never happened, or that Jews fabricated it in order to create Israel or to justify treating Palestinians badly (their opinion). I have never seen someone who denies the holocaust be a supporter of Israel. I haven't seen anyone deny it for logical purposes either. It can't be denied, there is overwhelming proof and even photos that show it happened. I understand someone being objective and open minded compiling research, but anyone doing so will come to the conclusion that it happened because their is true proof and even witnesses/survivors.

My belief is that most people deny the holocaust out of hate for Jews or hate for Israel. We can disagree politically or on any matter, but when hatred is thrown into the mix (like I hate X nation or X politician) people will believe just about anything they want. Hate is a nasty fuel that is strong enough to lead someone to believe that rich Jews paid the Nazis to kill off poor European Jews and use the strong to genocide the Arabs and take the land to be Israel (what some Iranian Imams have actually taught). Nations filled with hate (Gaza and Iran for instance) deny the Holocaust because they hate Israel and they say it was fabricated to help Jews create Israel. Their position isn't based on fact, but rather hatred. This is true for other things as well. Some people believe that Obama is a satanist or kills (or is racist against) white people simply because they literally hate him and it fits their opinion (humans just love to hate).
Posted 10/7/09

digs wrote:

I think most deny the holocaust based on hatred for Israel and racism towards Jews. The vast majority of holocaust deniers are people who hate Israel and believe the Imams that scream death to Jews and to Israel. They believe it never happened, or that Jews fabricated it in order to create Israel or to justify treating Palestinians badly (their opinion). I have never seen someone who denies the holocaust be a supporter of Israel. I haven't seen anyone deny it for logical purposes either. It can't be denied, there is overwhelming proof and even photos that show it happened. I understand someone being objective and open minded compiling research, but anyone doing so will come to the conclusion that it happened because their is true proof and even witnesses/survivors.

My belief is that most people deny the holocaust out of hate for Jews or hate for Israel. We can disagree politically or on any matter, but when hatred is thrown into the mix (like I hate X nation or X politician) people will believe just about anything they want. Hate is a nasty fuel that is strong enough to lead someone to believe that rich Jews paid the Nazis to kill off poor European Jews and use the strong to genocide the Arabs and take the land to be Israel (what some Iranian Imams have actually taught). Nations filled with hate (Gaza and Iran for instance) deny the Holocaust because they hate Israel and they say it was fabricated to help Jews create Israel. Their position isn't based on fact, but rather hatred. This is true for other things as well. Some people believe that Obama is a satanist or kills (or is racist against) white people simply because they literally hate him and it fits their opinion (humans just love to hate).


do you know what the sad thing is digs?? there are people i know that are white supremacist and it just pisses me off so much that they think they way to do and still use religion as an excuse to have their way of thinking =-=
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Posted 10/7/09

CecilTheDarkKnight_234 wrote:


digs wrote:

I think most deny the holocaust based on hatred for Israel and racism towards Jews. The vast majority of holocaust deniers are people who hate Israel and believe the Imams that scream death to Jews and to Israel. They believe it never happened, or that Jews fabricated it in order to create Israel or to justify treating Palestinians badly (their opinion). I have never seen someone who denies the holocaust be a supporter of Israel. I haven't seen anyone deny it for logical purposes either. It can't be denied, there is overwhelming proof and even photos that show it happened. I understand someone being objective and open minded compiling research, but anyone doing so will come to the conclusion that it happened because their is true proof and even witnesses/survivors.

My belief is that most people deny the holocaust out of hate for Jews or hate for Israel. We can disagree politically or on any matter, but when hatred is thrown into the mix (like I hate X nation or X politician) people will believe just about anything they want. Hate is a nasty fuel that is strong enough to lead someone to believe that rich Jews paid the Nazis to kill off poor European Jews and use the strong to genocide the Arabs and take the land to be Israel (what some Iranian Imams have actually taught). Nations filled with hate (Gaza and Iran for instance) deny the Holocaust because they hate Israel and they say it was fabricated to help Jews create Israel. Their position isn't based on fact, but rather hatred. This is true for other things as well. Some people believe that Obama is a satanist or kills (or is racist against) white people simply because they literally hate him and it fits their opinion (humans just love to hate).


do you know what the sad thing is digs?? there are people i know that are white supremacist and it just pisses me off so much that they think they way to do and still use religion as an excuse to have their way of thinking =-=


That's really sad. Usually white supremacists are that way either because of eugenics (like Hitler) or because of a hatred of all other races. In this case it seems to be either hate, pride, or an internal issue (like an insecurity).
Posted 10/7/09
i dont get it. whats there to deny?? everyone knows of it, they have videos, pictures and survivors to prove what happened. maybe the person just wants your attention??
Posted 10/7/09

digs wrote:


CecilTheDarkKnight_234 wrote:


digs wrote:

I think most deny the holocaust based on hatred for Israel and racism towards Jews. The vast majority of holocaust deniers are people who hate Israel and believe the Imams that scream death to Jews and to Israel. They believe it never happened, or that Jews fabricated it in order to create Israel or to justify treating Palestinians badly (their opinion). I have never seen someone who denies the holocaust be a supporter of Israel. I haven't seen anyone deny it for logical purposes either. It can't be denied, there is overwhelming proof and even photos that show it happened. I understand someone being objective and open minded compiling research, but anyone doing so will come to the conclusion that it happened because their is true proof and even witnesses/survivors.

My belief is that most people deny the holocaust out of hate for Jews or hate for Israel. We can disagree politically or on any matter, but when hatred is thrown into the mix (like I hate X nation or X politician) people will believe just about anything they want. Hate is a nasty fuel that is strong enough to lead someone to believe that rich Jews paid the Nazis to kill off poor European Jews and use the strong to genocide the Arabs and take the land to be Israel (what some Iranian Imams have actually taught). Nations filled with hate (Gaza and Iran for instance) deny the Holocaust because they hate Israel and they say it was fabricated to help Jews create Israel. Their position isn't based on fact, but rather hatred. This is true for other things as well. Some people believe that Obama is a satanist or kills (or is racist against) white people simply because they literally hate him and it fits their opinion (humans just love to hate).


do you know what the sad thing is digs?? there are people i know that are white supremacist and it just pisses me off so much that they think they way to do and still use religion as an excuse to have their way of thinking =-=


That's really sad. Usually white supremacists are that way either because of eugenics (like Hitler) or because of a hatred of all other races. In this case it seems to be either hate, pride, or an internal issue (like an insecurity).


well, racism always comes from insecurity, or else why would someone be racist?? what would they get from it??

Yei
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Posted 10/7/09 , edited 10/7/09

jjjooonnneeelll wrote:

well, racism always comes from insecurity, or else why would someone be racist?? what would they get from it??



Some time during human development, fearing other humans who were different, or who we didn't understand was a valuable survival instinct. So if someone from another group came by, like alot of animals would do, they would mistrust him/her and be scared or try to make them go away. This basic survival instinct is ingrained in our psyche, so xenophobia, racism, homophobia, etc, all just come from that.

So it is insecurity, but primitive insecurity that many people still haven't gotten past.
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Posted 10/7/09
I'm sorry but you are actually wrong, the holocaust denial sprouted from the Israel/Palestine.

Remember from your history classes the foundation of the state of Israel in 1948, Israel was not an empty space before 1948 it was an inhabited by the Arabs(Muslims).

Backed by the UN and the U.S, Palestine was forcefully colonized and transformed into a Jewish State.

The Palestinians felt like the whole western nations ganged up on them and solicited all the help of the Arab(Muslim) countries.

The Arab(Muslim) solidarity in an attempt to demonize the Jewish Invaders started to question the Holocaust which at the time was one of the biggest reason for the creation of a Jewish State, a means for the Jews to protect themselves by creating a country in the promise land.

Eventually the holocaust denial became mainstream thought.

The the reason the Arab kid supports the holocaust denial is not because he is retarded or heartless.

If you had grown up in his environment you would have probably felt the same anger and frustration towards the Jews, and holocaust denial is one of the best way to bash on them.

The Israelis have been pounding the Palestinians>Arabs>Muslim for 60 years and have no intention to stop until they finish the colonization and the almighty U.N is much too afraid of the U.S to actually take physical actions.

Its not easy to be unbiased in this world, so the next time you meet that @sshole just try being more understanding.


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Posted 10/7/09
Posted 10/7/09 , edited 10/7/09

Ryutai-Desk wrote:
We are trying to clear up the baseless view that always been created by biased media to its society world widely. That's why, while not trying to bias we put the NPT, procedure and many fact that this country is well-cooperated with International Agency to have its rights. The rights every country should have. and not because of their ideology or negative prejudice.

If you feel the heat or sensitive argument, you can leave it as that is common when people talking about controversial issues like this.
But flaming or saying we're fooling around when you can't defense your opinion, that's not nice and should be avoided for further discussion to seek the truth and balance of knowledge. Although, many of us might have done it before but what we're talking is about the future of one country and its innocent lives. We are not cruel enough to abandoned them and against them just because of one's interest.

By the way, thanks for the link. It's pretty well describe how bad Israel is with Human Rights


It's because of the way you're going at it can only generate more heated discussions, when you used political soundbites like comic strips to support your views.

India, Israel and Pakistan never signed the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty back in 1968, that's how they continued to manufacture their nuclear weapons without UN interventions to disarm them. North Korea withdrew their stands from the said treaty since 2003, and that's how they became the first nation to have nuclear weapon with a history of NPT in 2005. Iran OTOH while still a nation under the treaty, is now capable of launching tactical missile, with their plutonium enrichment research program aimed to produce "military" grade enriched plutonium for "medical" purpose. Just what disease are they planning to cure using "military" grade enriched plutonium? And how? Well their president didn't even let us know about that, when military grade enriched plutonium 240 is too dangerous to use as medicine.

Keep in mind that even while they committed war crime against Gaza, Israel never launched a single nuclear weapon. Because they kept their words that as long as Iran don't possess nuclear weapons, they will not launch a nuclear strike against only Iran.

Now let's review the principle of the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty on it's three basic components. And how they interject themselves in the case of Iran, who BTW did signed the treaty. They are: 1) non-proliferation, 2) disarmament, and 3) the right to peacefully use nuclear technology. Under component 1) Iran is not to allow to have nuclear weapons. And any attempt for Iran to have nuclear weapons will be disarmed by the United Nations Security Council(who BTW are the only nations to have nuclear weapons as agreed per component 1)) of China, France, Russia, United Kingdom, and United States of America due to component 2). But Iran can develop nuclear technology for peaceful purposes such as industrial and medical, under component 3).

So as a member of the United Nations Security Council, president Obama of US has agreed to negotiate with Iran at the request of Israel. And president Obama is "not interested in talking for the sake of talking". What this means that at the end of this negotiation either Iran must withdraw themselves from the NPT, so they can keep their nuclear weapon program, all the while Israel will be too happy to have a reason to nuke Iran to kingdom come. Or Iran had better start explaining themselves just exactly what and how are they gonna do with military grade enriched plutonium 240 for peaceful medical purpose, so the rest of the United Nations Security Council can help them with their research.

Now does any of that sounds bias, baseless, or even cruel to you? So the Iranian president Ahmadenijad can act like a victim while playing dumb, being vague, acting incompetent, and asking the wrong question: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIc2fhDYG78&feature=channel

Not to mention is the fact that the Iranian president Ahmadenijad had been denying the WWII Holocaust of Jews for nearly 4 years and counting:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4527142.stm(Wednesday, 14 December 2005)
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1253198152301&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull(Sep 18, 2009)
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