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Holocaust Denial
Yei
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Posted 11/1/09

DomFortress wrote:

Did he not said that:

drizza wrote:
This is what I want to see and glad I am alive in the age of the internet. Because here on the internet we can discuss anything without any consequences. This issue could never be debated in the real world though.
However, this is an internet public forum, whereas he could be having a virtual discussion in his private room using the internet. Therefore while he thinks that his thoughts and feelings have no real consequences on the real world because he's expressing them privately, he's nonetheless openly sharing them on an internet public forum. Just like you and I are openly discussing his thoughts and feelings about the internet.

Now you tell me, how's that not he having a double-standard about the virtual reality that's the internet. When he wouldn't share his thoughts and feelings openly in real public because of the consequences of such action may result, but he would do so openly in a virtual reality such as this internet public forum. When the internet can indeed have real consequences on the real world and the people inhabiting both realities.

Unless, of course, he's afraid of the real consequences of expressing himself openly in real public; other people's real thoughts and feelings from the real world. So in the end he's only using the internet as a medium for ranting, not for him seriously discussing his thoughts and feelings with other people.


0_0

You have too much time on your hands Dom...
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Posted 11/1/09


Your right I apologize man. Can I take you out to dinner or something?
Posted 11/1/09

Yei wrote:


DomFortress wrote:

Did he not said that:

drizza wrote:
This is what I want to see and glad I am alive in the age of the internet. Because here on the internet we can discuss anything without any consequences. This issue could never be debated in the real world though.
However, this is an internet public forum, whereas he could be having a virtual discussion in his private room using the internet. Therefore while he thinks that his thoughts and feelings have no real consequences on the real world because he's expressing them privately, he's nonetheless openly sharing them on an internet public forum. Just like you and I are openly discussing his thoughts and feelings about the internet.

Now you tell me, how's that not he having a double-standard about the virtual reality that's the internet. When he wouldn't share his thoughts and feelings openly in real public because of the consequences of such action may result, but he would do so openly in a virtual reality such as this internet public forum. When the internet can indeed have real consequences on the real world and the people inhabiting both realities.

Unless, of course, he's afraid of the real consequences of expressing himself openly in real public; other people's real thoughts and feelings from the real world. So in the end he's only using the internet as a medium for ranting, not for him seriously discussing his thoughts and feelings with other people.


0_0

You have too much time on your hands Dom...

For seriously discussing my thoughts and feelings, I'll make the time. Because they are important to me.


drizza wrote:



Your right I apologize man. Can I take you out to dinner or something?

Not for real, I hope. I barely know you.
Posted 11/5/09
To change history, and to bust the Zionists excuse for their massive immigration process during, and after World War 2. It's charged with a political agenda.

General Eisenhower warned us.


I have never felt able to describe my emotional reaction when I first came face to face with indisputable evidence of Nazi brutality and ruthless disregard of every shred of decency...I visited every nook and cranny of the camp because I felt it my duty to be in a position from then on to testify at first hand about these things in case there ever grew up at home the belief or assumption that the stories of Nazi brutality were just propaganda.

--General Dwight D. Eisenhower, Supreme Commander, Allied Forces, Europe, Letter to Chief of Staff George Marshall, April 12, 1945



Problem is, that most people seem to forget that the Holocaust wasn't just about the Jews, albeit they certainly formed the majority of the killed, but also other ethnicities were included in those massacres to forward the Aryans' ethnic cleansing of Europe.
Then, people seem to forget that the Holocaust didn't include all the massacres. As far as my memory serves me, Holocaust is a reference to "sacrifice by fire" and is a remark to the part where people were thrown into ovens. But a large portion was killed by starvation, and labour. But somehow it's come to the point where the word Holocaust is used for the whole thing. Or maybe I'm just neglecting something here.

There's this. Schools are starting to drop Holocaust from their History curriculum.


....The study, funded by the Department for Education and Skills, looked into 'emotive and controversial' history teaching in primary and secondary schools.

It found some teachers are dropping courses covering the Holocaust at the earliest opportunity over fears Muslim pupils might express anti-Semitic and anti-Israel reactions in class.

The researchers gave the example of a secondary school in an unnamed northern city, which dropped the Holocaust as a subject for GCSE coursework.

The report said teachers feared confronting 'anti-Semitic sentiment and Holocaust denial among some Muslim pupils'.

It added: "In another department, the Holocaust was taught despite anti-Semitic sentiment among some pupils....


....The report concluded: "In particular settings, teachers of history are unwilling to challenge highly contentious or charged versions of history in which pupils are steeped at home, in their community or in a place of worship."....

To not cover a certain part in history just because there are some people who might feel offended at the prospect of it is being historically dishonest.



As for the Japanese in World War 2,
my family has British roots, and all of my Great Grandma's brothers served in World War 2, and evidently most of them died, but one of them returned. He's been caught by the Japanese and was horribly tortured. He was crippled for life, physically and mentally. Hear and say has it that he was shocked by the horrific methods, and seeing how much amusement the Japanese soldiers took in doing so. That the Japanese were cruel. Their torture methods, and killing methods were atrocious.

I came across an interesting blog by Robin Rowland, a Canadian author that speaks of the guards of the Burma Railway camps, and that a lot of them were not Japanese, but Korean. Let me quote the blog's content.


1. Most of the guards were draftees. If a local village or region did not meet quotas from either volunteers or the draft, the local community was ordered to provide more men. (This was the same system that provided "comfort women.")

2. Almost all Koreans as well as native Taiwanese (a Japanese colony at the time before post-Communist victory migration) were forced to change their names to Japanese ones if they wanted to work for the Japanese or upon being drafted or press ganged.

3. There are academic studies in Japan that indicate that the proportion of Koreans charged, tried, imprisoned or executed for war crimes against POWs was higher than the Japanese themselves largely because the Korean guards had closer contact with the POWs, so that they could be identified easier and their war crimes easily proven beyond any reasonable doubt. It has been argued-- convincingly in my view-- by Japanese academics that this was a case of concentrating on the lowest levels of responsibility while those also responsible, the mid-range of the Japanese officers in the camps or headquarters, captains, majors and colonels, often, but not always, escaped retribution from the Allies because they could not be identified and the cases against them proven.

4. The Korean guards underwent a brutal six week basic training course in Korea before being shipped to the camps. The basic training consisted largely of bashing for the most minor infraction, so that when they bashed POWs, they were doing what they had been taught to do.

5. This doesn't mean that they escape responsibility, many brought up to revere Japanese culture wanted to be more Japanese than the Japanese.

6. Most of the Korean guards convicted of war crimes were for decades and those few still surviving in a legal limbo. Because they were on "lifetime parole" they were not permitted to leave Japan after all the war criminals, Japanese and Korean, were freed in 1956. At the time Koreans were a despised minority in Japan. The gonzuku in Japan were also denied veterans benefits (while Japanese war criminals did get the benefits). Japan's argument was that since Korea was independent, Korea was responsible for them (even though they were drafted into the IJA) . So the men settled in ghettos, lived on odd jobs and some locally provided welfare or money from families in Korean and in most cases never married. They had a large suicide rate in the 50s and 60s.

7. A modern irony "gonzuku" roughly translated means civilian contractor. The gonzuku were not part of the IJA order of battle and actually signed an employment contract. The other auxiliaries, heiho, which were used in combat were part of the IJA order of battle.



I, personally, believe that there's enough evidence that proves that the Holocaust did happen, and everybody who knows what humans can be like surely understands what kind of devil war awakens in people. It makes their actions, and mind even less predictable than normally. There are no restraints. You can do whatever pleases you. They're your enemies, and you can do whatever the fuck you want with them, because whether you torture them to death, or just simply shoot them, doesn't matter as the outcome is the same, you killed the enemy, and what means you're using to achieve your goal doesn't matter, because war is not kind, war is war. If you're a sick fuck this shit keeps you alive.

And I recall having read somewhere that there was a saying amongst the Allied soldiers: "You can turn your back to a German, but NEVER EVER turn your back on a Jap"
__________

Footnote:

Liberato
http://fcit.usf.edu/holocaust/people/liberato.htm

Teachers drop Holocaust to avoid offending Muslims
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-445979/Teachers-drop-Holocaust-avoid-offending-Muslims.html

Judgment International Military Tribunal for the Far East
http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/PTO/IMTFE/index.html

Korean guards on the Burma Thailand Railway
http://robinrowland.com/garret/2005/08/korean-guards-on-burma-thailand.html

Burma Railway
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burma_Railway
Posted 11/5/09 , edited 11/5/09

SeraphAlford wrote:

Discretion advised:




But but..those pictures are all photoshopped. For truthseekers this is not evidence. Truthseekers only see what they want to see. HAHAHA. You lying sack of shit, Seraphalford. You supported the holocaust with bogus photos.

/joke

On a serious note, it's truly appalling to see that there are people who question those happenings to the point where they blatantly deny its existence. What kind of evidence do they want? After their idea of what is the truth, then every historical fact is questionable, and not trustworthy at all. Basically, our history is all bullshit if we'd go after their theory.

Then again, it's always the same pansies who tend to do that. So no surprise at all
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Posted 11/5/09 , edited 11/5/09



Not to generalize or promote a stereotype, but I have never once met a Muslim that believes in the Holocaust. I’m not just talking about the people I’ve talked to in real life or on the internet. I’ve gone to websites by Muslims for Muslims and recommended to me by more Muslims and found the Imams and “Islamic Scholars,” therein to all be holocaust deniers. Now, some of them use more tact. They’ll deny the holocaust but then say that they’re not denying the holocaust. Like Ansar in the Zeitgeist thread.







I actually think you should go in there and read the conversation I had with Ansar. It starts with the first post on the third page. I’m sure that you’ll be amazed that anybody can take him seriously either.

http://www.crunchyroll.com/forumtopic-533406/the-zeitgeist-discussion/?pg=3


Notice that at the end of the thread, after I lost interest, three users came to make sarcastic comments about it. Drizza has since edited his contribution but the other two users were Ansar and Ryu…. Crunchy Rolls Muslim trio.

All three of them are also convinced that Jews orchestrated 9/11.
All three are 100% anti-Israel in the Israel-Palestine conflict.

I point this out not as an attack on Muslims, but out of curiosity. Why is it that Muslims seem to tend to have this weird thing about Jews? I mean, it’s not just Crunchy Roll Users. Clearly, they’re blaming the Jews for things they didn’t do, associating Jewish heredity with being a conspirator, and denying or at least minimizing Jewish suffering. Yet, it’s not just them. There’re just so many conspiracies held exclusively by neo-nazis and Muslims that the rest of us laugh at.

What’s going on here?
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Posted 11/5/09

SeraphAlford wrote:




Not to generalize or promote a stereotype, but I have never once met a Muslim that believes in the Holocaust. I’m not just talking about the people I’ve talked to in real life or on the internet. I’ve gone to websites by Muslims for Muslims and recommended to me by more Muslims and found the Imams and “Islamic Scholars,” therein to all be holocaust deniers. Now, some of them use more tact. They’ll deny the holocaust but then say that they’re not denying the holocaust. Like Ansar in the Zeitgeist thread.







I actually think you should go in there and read the conversation I had with Ansar. It starts with the first post on the third page. I’m sure that you’ll be amazed that anybody can take him seriously either.

http://www.crunchyroll.com/forumtopic-533406/the-zeitgeist-discussion/?pg=3


Notice that at the end of the thread, after I lost interest, three users came to make sarcastic comments about it. Drizza has since edited his contribution but the other two users were Ansar and Ryu…. Crunchy Rolls Muslim trio.

All three of them are also convinced that Jews orchestrated 9/11.
All three are 100% anti-Israel in the Israel-Palestine conflict.

I point this out not as an attack on Muslims, but out of curiosity. Why is it that Muslims seem to tend to have this weird thing about Jews? I mean, it’s not just Crunchy Roll Users. Clearly, they’re blaming the Jews for things they didn’t do, associating Jewish heredity with being a conspirator, and denying or at least minimizing Jewish suffering. Yet, it’s not just them. There’re just so many conspiracies held exclusively by neo-nazis and Muslims that the rest of us laugh at.

What’s going on here?


lol you just dug yourself a grave buddy I will respond when I get off work because here you go again talking shit about people behind their backs.
Posted 11/5/09 , edited 11/5/09

SeraphAlford wrote:




Not to generalize or promote a stereotype, but I have never once met a Muslim that believes in the Holocaust. I’m not just talking about the people I’ve talked to in real life or on the internet. I’ve gone to websites by Muslims for Muslims and recommended to me by more Muslims and found the Imams and “Islamic Scholars,” therein to all be holocaust deniers. Now, some of them use more tact. They’ll deny the holocaust but then say that they’re not denying the holocaust. Like Ansar in the Zeitgeist thread.







I actually think you should go in there and read the conversation I had with Ansar. It starts with the first post on the third page. I’m sure that you’ll be amazed that anybody can take him seriously either.

http://www.crunchyroll.com/forumtopic-533406/the-zeitgeist-discussion/?pg=3


Notice that at the end of the thread, after I lost interest, three users came to make sarcastic comments about it. Drizza has since edited his contribution but the other two users were Ansar and Ryu…. Crunchy Rolls Muslim trio.

All three of them are also convinced that Jews orchestrated 9/11.
All three are 100% anti-Israel in the Israel-Palestine conflict.

I point this out not as an attack on Muslims, but out of curiosity. Why is it that Muslims seem to tend to have this weird thing about Jews? I mean, it’s not just Crunchy Roll Users. Clearly, they’re blaming the Jews for things they didn’t do, associating Jewish heredity with being a conspirator, and denying or at least minimizing Jewish suffering. Yet, it’s not just them. There’re just so many conspiracies held exclusively by neo-nazis and Muslims that the rest of us laugh at.

What’s going on here?


Ahaha, isn't Ansar Drizza? Okay, joke.

CR isn't the only forum I frequent, and sadly, every forum I've come across has people like that. No matter how hard, how credible your sources are, they ignore it, and only accept what they like to hear, and prefer to frequent one conspiracy website after an other. Yeah, conspiracy theories are truly amusing, and sometimes even entertaining, but the entertainment stops when there's someone who sucks it in as if it was the real deal. I've come across people who talk about how Nazis were pagans, and the whole Nazi ideology was a religion, and woah..Hitler was a member of Thule society. People who believe the NWO conspiracy theory. Ah, life.

What I find interesting about this whole Zeitgeist debate is, that those people don't trust the initial part about the origins of Christianity, but consider the rest of the film, especially the part that focuses on their interests (9/11), as quite plausible, and interesting.

Well, SeraphAlford, if you've read the Koran it shouldn't be too surprising, right? And people always need to find a scapegoat for their misery. The Jews have been the scapegoat for many things throughout history, and were persecuted because of it. Apparently it doesn't take much to make people jump on the anti-Jews bandwagon.

By the way, SeraphAlford, you can't question Muslims without coming off as inflammatory to them. Yeah, sorry, but that's how this world rolls.

Scary thing is. People with this mindset don't exist just on the internet, they're active members of the real world as well. And if I look at Europe, then some Muslims in Europe seem to use western liberalism as a means to force their own agenda on the rest of society. Attempts to implement Sharia as a parallel legal system in Europe(apparently in the UK they've gotten through with it already), attempts to build more and more minarets in Switzerland even though minarets are not a mandatory part of mosques, and if said country doesn't comply they never fall short to mention that people shouldn't be surprised if some Islamists are going to attempt some terrorist attacks on said country. Ah, the irony.

I can't wait to hear some Muslim call me a racist.
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Posted 11/5/09

drizza wrote:

lol you just dug yourself a grave buddy I will respond when I get off work because here you go again talking shit about people behind their backs.


I dug myself a grave? What’re you going to do, flame me to death? Lol.

I wasn’t talking shit about you, or anyone else. I was pointing out that all three of the outspoken Muslims on this website seem to have monotonous perspectives concerning Jews and other issues? Let’s not look at the holocaust denial element. Let’s look at the issue on Iran and nuclear proliferation. Again we run into the same thing. Monotonous opinions within the groups, be they here on Crunchy Roll or elsewhere on the internet.

I’m simply inquiring as to what causes this apparent dearth of diversity. Why is it a Muslim seems so much more likely to deny the holocaust, to side up with Iran, or to believe that Chertoff is a part of an international conspiracy because his mother’s nationality than atheists, Christians, Jews, or agnostics?

Look at Crunchy Roll’s community. You’ll notice that we have the atheists, Christians, Muslims, and agnostics. The Jews are missing so let’s just ignore them for the moment. Look at the Palestine issue. Some of the secular people here have expressed their solidarity with the Israelis. Some secular people here have expressed solidarity with the Palestinians. Some Christians have been pro-Palestine and some have been pro-Israel. All the Muslims were in general if not absolute agreement. In fact, I’ve been talking via PM with several of my friends from Crunchy Roll’s Muslim group and one of them even went to start a Israel hate group.

I’m not saying that their opinions are anti-Israel and pro-Iran because they’re Muslim. I’m asking what’s causing the trend. Like how so many people ask why there’s a greater percentage of people suffering from AIDs amongst the homosexuals than amongst the heterosexuals.

I don’t think gays are infected because they’re gay; nor do I think all gays have HIV. I am curious as to what’s created the prevalence in the first place? What is causing it to grow?

I’m curious about the same thing with this issue. Muslims of all backgrounds seem to have the
perspective on political issues, and yet it’s allegedly not because their religious beliefs. You yourself have made it very clear that your Islamic faith has nothing to do with your anti-Israel stance. Yet, I’m observing that all the Muslims here agree with you on this political sentiment while every other group is fractured on the issue.

Do you disagree with my observation? Do you think I’m mislead by my experience in saying that Muslims seem more likely to deny the historical account of the holocaust than other religious or non-religious groupings? Have you ever met a Muslim who accepts the historical account of the holocaust?

How is this talking shit? Was what I said about Ansar incorrect? Did I misquote him? I don’t think I did. One moment he said that the holocaust was a hoax and then the next moment he said he wasn’t denying the holocaust. Is not calling something a hoax the same thing as denying it? And then he says he’s not denying it.

I’m sorry if you’re offended but I wasn’t talking shit on anyone. I just have a legitimate question. And if your response is going to be rage and flaming then I’ve no interest in hearing it. I’m certainly not impressed by hollow internet threats about my grave.

Also, it's not behind your back that I said anything. It was all right out here in the open in a thread where I knew you would find what I wrote.
Posted 11/5/09 , edited 11/5/09
Yeah, he said it here in the open for anyone to read. Nothing behind anyone's back here.
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Posted 11/5/09

ShroomInferno wrote:

Ahaha, isn't Ansar Drizza? Okay, joke.

CR isn't the only forum I frequent, and sadly, every forum I've come across has people like that. No matter how hard, how credible your sources are, they ignore it, and only accept what they like to hear, and prefer to frequent one conspiracy website after an other. Yeah, conspiracy theories are truly amusing, and sometimes even entertaining, but the entertainment stops when there's someone who sucks it in as if it was the real deal. I've come across people who talk about how Nazis were pagans, and the whole Nazi ideology was a religion, and woah..Hitler was a member of Thule society. People who believe the NWO conspiracy theory. Ah, life.

What I find interesting about this whole Zeitgeist debate is, that those people don't trust the initial part about the origins of Christianity, but consider the rest of the film, especially the part that focuses on their interests (9/11), as quite plausible, and interesting.

Well, SeraphAlford, if you've read the Koran it shouldn't be too surprising, right? And people always need to find a scapegoat for their misery. The Jews have been the scapegoat for many things throughout history, and were persecuted because of it. Apparently it doesn't take much to make people jump on the anti-Jews bandwagon.

By the way, SeraphAlford, you can't question Muslims without coming off as inflammatory to them. Yeah, sorry, but that's how this world rolls.

Scary thing is. People with this mindset don't exist just on the internet, they're active members of the real world as well. And if I look at Europe, then some Muslims in Europe seem to use western liberalism as a means to force their own agenda on the rest of society. Attempts to implement Sharia as a parallel legal system in Europe(apparently in the UK they've gotten through with it already), attempts to build more and more minarets in Switzerland even though minarets are not a mandatory part of mosques, and if said country doesn't comply they never fall short to mention that people shouldn't be surprised if some Islamists are going to attempt some terrorist attacks on said country. Ah, the irony.

I can't wait to hear some Muslim call me a racist.



You know I haven’t completely ruled out the possibility that Ansar is just an alternate for Drizza, but for now I have no choice but to take ‘their’ word for it an assume that they’re separate people.

I feel obliged, for the sake of honesty, to make it clear that I have not read the Qur’an. I’ve read a lot of the Qur’an, I’ve read commentaries on the Qur’an, and I’ve even conversed with Imams about various aspects of the Qur’an. I’ve studied Islamic theology both in a classroom and on my own time. I’ve done reports on Islamic beliefs, talked with Muslims on the internet and in real life. Alas, I’ve yet to pick up the Qur’an and scan its content from one cover to the next; moreover, I do not speak Arabic and many Muslims believe that if you translate the Qur’an it ceases to be the Qur’an.

This being said the Qur’an’s attitude towards the Jews seems to waver at times. One moment they’re enemies and the next they’re brothers. At no time are they equal to the Muslims but in some occasions they’re very close. I can’t remember if it was a Hadith or a sura from the Qur’an but at some point I remember reading a prophecy that the anti-Christ will come with an army of Jews.

So, I suppose if Muslims believe that it would explain their suspicions. I mean, if you’ve ever read the Left Behind Series that’s how the Christians are. The bible talks about a one-world government at the end of times so we get all suspicious anytime somebody talks about the United Nations, adopting a dollar standard within a regional hegemony, or anything remotely ecumenical. Often times they become irrationally suspicious.

I mean, let’s get real. Maybe one day there will be a one world government, but the United Nations? Come on, these guys don’t have any real power. They just like to draw lines that always backfire and pass laws they don’t enforce. Like how they did nothing when Saddam hit Iran with chemical weapons because they didn’t want to alienate him and lose oil.

I know what you’re talking about with the questioning Muslims thing. In 2005 a Dutch cartoonist was arrested whenever a group of Muslims protested against his caricaturizing of Muslim and Christian extremists as zombies. The Christians were quiet. You should read the book, “Shake Down.”

It brings up a similar case in which a newspaper in Canada fired its cartoonist because he drew images offensive to Muslims expressing his journalistic disagreement with Islamic fundamentalism. Considering that the cartoons are clearly labeled as editorial material you’d think this was his right but apparently no. The news paper defended itself by saying that they ‘didn’t want to offend anyone,’ and then one week later published an image of Mary the Mother of God covered in urine.

The author of the book was actually taken to court for ‘hate’ speech when he defended the cartoonist publically. He spent thousands of dollars on court fees and legal procedures and spent years dealing with the process. He was unable to work during this period and was treated like a criminal and harassed. In the end they ruled in his favor but refused to reimburse him for his costs.

I think it’s funny. People say that pro-lifers are only pro-life because they’re Christian all the time and nobody seems to overreact about it. But if I note “A lot of Muslims are anti-Israel,” then I’m “digging my own grave.”
Posted 11/5/09 , edited 11/5/09

SeraphAlford wrote:

You know I haven’t completely ruled out the possibility that Ansar is just an alternate for Drizza, but for now I have no choice but to take ‘their’ word for it an assume that they’re separate people.

I feel obliged, for the sake of honesty, to make it clear that I have not read the Qur’an. I’ve read a lot of the Qur’an, I’ve read commentaries on the Qur’an, and I’ve even conversed with Imams about various aspects of the Qur’an. I’ve studied Islamic theology both in a classroom and on my own time. I’ve done reports on Islamic beliefs, talked with Muslims on the internet and in real life. Alas, I’ve yet to pick up the Qur’an and scan its content from one cover to the next; moreover, I do not speak Arabic and many Muslims believe that if you translate the Qur’an it ceases to be the Qur’an.

This being said the Qur’an’s attitude towards the Jews seems to waver at times. One moment they’re enemies and the next they’re brothers. At no time are they equal to the Muslims but in some occasions they’re very close. I can’t remember if it was a Hadith or a sura from the Qur’an but at some point I remember reading a prophecy that the anti-Christ will come with an army of Jews.

So, I suppose if Muslims believe that it would explain their suspicions. I mean, if you’ve ever read the Left Behind Series that’s how the Christians are. The bible talks about a one-world government at the end of times so we get all suspicious anytime somebody talks about the United Nations, adopting a dollar standard within a regional hegemony, or anything remotely ecumenical. Often times they become irrationally suspicious.

I mean, let’s get real. Maybe one day there will be a one world government, but the United Nations? Come on, these guys don’t have any real power. They just like to draw lines that always backfire and pass laws they don’t enforce. Like how they did nothing when Saddam hit Iran with chemical weapons because they didn’t want to alienate him and lose oil.

I know what you’re talking about with the questioning Muslims thing. In 2005 a Dutch cartoonist was arrested whenever a group of Muslims protested against his caricaturizing of Muslim and Christian extremists as zombies. The Christians were quiet. You should read the book, “Shake Down.”

It brings up a similar case in which a newspaper in Canada fired its cartoonist because he drew images offensive to Muslims expressing his journalistic disagreement with Islamic fundamentalism. Considering that the cartoons are clearly labeled as editorial material you’d think this was his right but apparently no. The news paper defended itself by saying that they ‘didn’t want to offend anyone,’ and then one week later published an image of Mary the Mother of God covered in urine.

The author of the book was actually taken to court for ‘hate’ speech when he defended the cartoonist publically. He spent thousands of dollars on court fees and legal procedures and spent years dealing with the process. He was unable to work during this period and was treated like a criminal and harassed. In the end they ruled in his favor but refused to reimburse him for his costs.

I think it’s funny. People say that pro-lifers are only pro-life because they’re Christian all the time and nobody seems to overreact about it. But if I note “A lot of Muslims are anti-Israel,” then I’m “digging my own grave.”


Hadiths are not a legitimate part of the Koran. Especially if they contradict the Koran. But a lot of kiddies tend to take them word for word.

Well, like I said, they seem to use western liberalism to forward their own hidden agenda. Well it's not all that hidden, but people just prefer to ignore it because if you say something about it you're branded as racist, and brainwashed.

Yeah, I've browsed through the other thread, or was it this one where Digs posted a few charicatures Palestinians made about the Jews, and Rice. And those same people whine when their prophet gets stigmatised.

The irony never ceases to amaze me.
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Posted 11/5/09


Ok I am back now here is what I mean by talking behind others back. I could really care less what you have to say about muslims honestly my only problem is when my name is bought up. This isnt the first time you tried to trash me and label me some kind of Jew-Hater or neo nazi you failed when you had your little conversation with Yei and I called you out on it.

Now lets get on this zeigeist thread. Seraph says nobody can talk Ansar seriously but my question is when or did Seraph ever refute anything? Why is he not continuing his debate with Ansar rather then running away to this thread talking about him when he knows Ansar will not see it. Ansar is inactive on this thread unless there is a response to him on the zeigiest and he honestly and I honestly thought Seraph gave up due to his pathetic response at Ansar refuting everything he says and Ansar describing his position on why he believes what he does.

Lets play the Muslim card why does it matter what religion I am? Hey Yei let me ask you did I ever care or even bother to ask what religion you was? Do you defend the Palestinians due to your religion or your a human being and you can feel their pain? What about the jews who take up for them are they humans that feel for the palestinians as well or just self hating Jews? Goldstone the Jewish judge who tried to prosecute Israel for warcrimes was this because he was a racist? It comes to me with no surprise that Seraph is the only one on CR who is offended by my criticism of certain people. Even tho I cleary state Israeli or Zionism rather then just saying they are doing it because they are jews and you can read it in the Torah. I am still surprised to this day Seraph still cant tell the difference. I think this is why he talks about me. Maybe that many CR users arent jumping the Anti Semetic boat and thankfully for that gives me a lot of hope for this thread. Many users like Digs even though we have difference of opinion on many things related to foriegn policy we can keep it mature without saying, "Well your just a christian Digs, or Drizza your a muslim." Digs by far is the most mature person I can talk to and disagree with. He doesnt stereotype and for that I respect his opinion greatly and have good private convo's with him. Other people sadly just falls into the trap.

By saying I am just a muslim ignores all the points I am trying to make and covers up my material. What ever happened to refuting the actual material? If the material is that easy then do it why are we trying to label people instead to make them not sound credible. Yei if you were a muslim hypothetically speaking and you get into your small debates with Seraph do you think your relgion wont be used against you? Do you see how this cunning way of attacking someone without refuting their points work? Now as ignorant as Seraph is he will continue to throw my religion into everything I believe regardless of the good points. I say who cares I meet a lot of good people muslim and non muslim who agree's with what I say and glad I said it. They like how I can effectively criticize Israel without being anti semetic. How I can speak about the holocaust with a different point of view and makes sense without sounding anti semetic. These are intelligent people who look past the smear words and actually read what you say thoroughly. If anyone thought anything I said was racist then yes you are brainwashed into the same old phony criticism towards anyone who is Israeli or a Jew is anti semetic. If I criticize a black man for murder should I be called a racist? Am I doing it because I am white? Or am I doing it because I feel for the victim and he should be punished?

I will let Ansar speak for himself I am pretty sure he would laugh at whats been said here I just cant wait for his response. For those who think I am the Ansar well there is nothing I can say to convince you otherwise. I openly stated I agree with much of the Ansar says on that Zeigiest thread which he owned there was no backlash to what he said either. Just who am I afraid of on CR to voice my opinion?

Now lets get into this small discussion Shroom and Seraph is having about muslims lol like I said how is this relevant? I believe they are trying to say I am pissed off or something only because Seraph says something about my religion when in fact here on this thread he already said before on this thread he never met a muslim who agree's with the holocaust official story. In fact he said many are anti-semities and like hitler (I haven't met any but thats his opinion.). Now I just ignored that statement because I know many muslims who think otherwise and I know many muslims who agree's with the official holocaust story. Like I said my only gripe is when he brings my name up to try to make me look like some racist. I am a vocal critic of Israel I believe he hates that. I like it though because I know my words are getting to him, it is making him angry, it makes he angry that nobody else can agree with him that I hate jews. It makes him angry that I dont agree with the holocaust official story. He is angry when I say anything about a Jew who uses his religion to gain sympathy so he can continue his terror. This is why he is the only one on CR trying to lash out on me. Now this whole, "If you criticize Islam you are bashed." This is the most laughable statement I have heard in my life even the example I read. There are stereotypical movies made about arabs and muslims and even people writing books about prophet Muhammad getting interviews and praised on the mainstream media. Lets flip the script now George Galloway for giving aid to Palestinians is BANNED from Canada because the JDL (Jewish Defence League) didn't like that. Can you believe that banned for feeding people who was masscured by Israel. Am I not human for thinking this is wrong? Or wait I am just a muslim right? It is headline news for any prominent politician to say anything against Israel in this country even on this thread you see the effects of my criticism and others.

@ShroomInferno to be honest dude I skimmed through what you wrote and really lol I dont care. I think we never really was friendly with each other so when I meet people like this I usually just tend to ignore them as talking to them leads to pointless arguements. Example when I said something about Americans you proceeded to try to teach me that when I say Americans I could be talking about South Americans. You know whatever so be it this is just how we are going to be on CR we shouldnt even be addressing each other.
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drizza wrote:Ok I am back now here is what I mean by talking behind others back. I could really care less what you have to say about muslims honestly my only problem is when my name is bought up. This isnt the first time you tried to trash me and label me some kind of Jew-Hater or neo nazi you failed when you had your little conversation with Yei and I called you out on it.


Your prejudice against the Jews is your own issue, Drizza. I’m not the only one who has detected this in you. I know at least a couple other users who’ve expressed the same sentiment: that you stereotype Jews. I don’t think you hate them. I wouldn’t even call you a bigot or a racist. Just prejudice. Like a white woman who grips her purse whenever a black person walks by. Or a black person who automatically assumes that if a white person says something rude to them said white person is motivated by racial animosity.

I wasn’t talking bad about Muslims. I was making an inquiry as to an observation. I’ve done similar things with, say, white people. White people, whenever they dance to rock music, seem to bite their bottom lip. Amongst my friend’s I’ve coined the term, ‘white person’s overbite.’ Now, that time it could be classified as talking about you behind your back because I thought you’d left Crunchy Roll after having not seen you for an extended period of time. This time, however, I made my pots with full intention that you should see it.


Now lets get on this zeigeist thread. Seraph says nobody can talk Ansar seriously but my question is when or did Seraph ever refute anything? Why is he not continuing his debate with Ansar rather then running away to this thread talking about him when he knows Ansar will not see it. Ansar is inactive on this thread unless there is a response to him on the zeigiest and he honestly and I honestly thought Seraph gave up due to his pathetic response at Ansar refuting everything he says and Ansar describing his position on why he believes what he does.


Well of course you do, because that’s what you want to believe. But as anyone who reads the thread without deceiving themselves will see, I refuted several points. Just to pick one off the first couple posts, Ansar claimed that Chertoff’s mother was not only a Mossad agent but the first Mossad agent. But of course I showed this cannot be true because Mossad wasn’t taking women at that time; I then posted a source clearly demonstrating that she wasn’t a super secret agent. I then demonstrated that the source he cited was an unreliable source to begin with and that there was therefore no legitimate evidence of his accusation. To recap, I showed that his claim was unlikely with an argument. Historically false with a source, and academically negligible with a direct addressing.

Alas, this is a moot point. You will continue to believe whatsoever you desire to believe. Hints, I provided a link to the thread and encouraged Mr. Shroom to make up his own mind.

I left that thread because, in the words of somebody who messaged me about the conversation, “it’s best leave nuts in their shell.”


Lets play the Muslim card why does it matter what religion I am? Hey Yei let me ask you did I ever care or even bother to ask what religion you was? Do you defend the Palestinians due to your religion or your a human being and you can feel their pain? What about the jews who take up for them are they humans that feel for the palestinians as well or just self hating Jews? Goldstone the Jewish judge who tried to prosecute Israel for warcrimes was this because he was a racist?


Now you’re just reiterating my point. I didn’t say that you were racist for being anti-Israel. I said that there was an odd trend amongst the Muslims I’ve seen. I did not say that you were anti-Israel because your religion. I said that while I’ve seen atheists who’re anti-Israel and atheists who’re pro Israel, while I’ve seen Jews who’re anti-Israel and Jews who’re pro-Israel, I’ve only ever come across Muslims who’re anti-Israel. I’ve seen Christian and even Jewish holocaust deniers, but I’ve never seen a Muslim who accepts the holocaust.

I did not say that all Muslims are the same. I simply asked why there was this perceived trend. I pointed out that it was simply based on personal observation.


comes to me with no surprise that Seraph is the only one on CR who is offended by my criticism of certain people. Even tho I cleary state Israeli or Zionism rather then just saying they are doing it because they are jews and you can read it in the Torah


Sometimes you do. Other times you’ve come out and used the term Jew very directly. In the Zeitgeist thread your alternate argued that Chertoff was suspicious by highlighting such relevant facts as: he’s Jewish, his father was a rabbi, and his mother has a foreign nationality.


I am still surprised to this day Seraph still cant tell the difference. I think this is why he talks about me. Maybe that many CR users arent jumping the Anti Semetic boat and thankfully for that gives me a lot of hope for this thread. Many users like Digs even though we have difference of opinion on many things related to foriegn policy we can keep it mature without saying, "Well your just a christian Digs, or Drizza your a muslim." Digs by far is the most mature person I can talk to and disagree with. He doesnt stereotype and for that I respect his opinion greatly and have good private convo's with him. Other people sadly just falls into the trap.


Right, because anti-Semitism doesn’t exist. The ironic thing is that I agree with you more about this issue than Digs. I’m actually more moderate in my perspective towards Islam than Digs is too, and he and I are often arguing back and forth about various aspects of Islam. I wonder why the ‘anti-Semitism,’ card is a ‘trap,’ for ‘deceiving,’ people and getting them ‘jump in the boat,’ but you consider yourself completely reasonable, honest, and logical when you call the Muslim card…even though I wasn’t attacking you for being Muslim or attributing any characteristics to Muslims.

Am I not allowed to make observations now? I simply said, “hey, all the Muslims I’ve personally talked to have been holocaust deniers. This appears to me to be a trend, does anybody have an explanation for it?”

I even emboldened words like “appears,” and “tend,” and highlighted the fact that this was based strictly off personal observations.


By saying I am just a muslim ignores all the points I am trying to make and covers up my material.


Please point out where I did that. On the flip side that’s exactly what you’re doing with this “you call the anti-Semitism card.” I don’t see how you can’t see Ansar as an anti-Semite, to be honest, but again you’ll believe whatever suits you.


What ever happened to refuting the actual material? I


I did that in the Zeitgeist discussion. No sense in repetition.


Now lets get into this small discussion Shroom and Seraph is having about muslims lol like I said how is this relevant


That’s exactly what I’m asking. How is Chertoff being a Jew relevant? How is his mother being an Israeli relevant?


I believe they are trying to say I am pissed off or something only because Seraph says something about my religion when in fact here on this thread he already said before on this thread he never met a muslim who agree's with the holocaust official story


Have –you- ever met a Muslim that agrees with the holocaust’s official story? Look, I’m not saying they’re not out there. But it’s only honest to say I’ve never met one. Just to use the names already involved: Digs Yei and Mr. Shroom, have you guys ever met a Muslim who accepts the holocaust happened the way historians say?


In fact he said many are anti-semities and like hitler (I haven't met any but thats his opinion.)


Many Muslims are anti-Semites and I’m sure a lot are like Hitler. Al Husayni certainly was. And as I recall you’ve compared Jewish individuals to Hitler and the Nazis yourself. Do you think there’re no anti-Semitic Muslims now?


Now I just ignored that statement because I know many muslims who think otherwise and I know many muslims who agree's with the official holocaust story


Ah, so there are some out there! Okay, so what’s different about them from you, Ryu, and your neo-Nazi friend Ansar?


Like I said my only gripe is when he brings my name up to try to make me look like some racist.


Trust me--you don’t need me to make you look racist. Anyway, I was mainly talking about Ansar, not you. One way or the other, I’ll mention your name whenever it’s applicable. You just used Yei’s name, used Dig’s name. Did it come into your mind that Digs and I are friends? Maybe Digs doesn’t want to get caught up in an argument between us. But you didn’t consider that or you didn’t care, yet you want me to care about how you feel whenever I use your name. Not going to happen, it’s a public forum for communication and I’ll not be censored anymore than you will.
And that’s clearly not your only gripe. You just created a long ass post full of other gripes and only made passing mention of this particular gripe.


I am a vocal critic of Israel I believe he hates that


Yet there are plenty of other anti-Israeli individuals on here who’re just as vocally critical as you are. Hell, I’m a critic of Israel. The difference is that I’m not a holocaust denier and I don’t slander Jews by blaming them for the actions of select Muslim extremists. I don’t proliferate neo-Nazi News Letters, express my solidarity with extroversive racists, and minimize the suffering of 6 million documented deaths while not subject any other item in history to the same measure of scrutiny.


I like it though because I know my words are getting to him, it is making him angry, it makes he angry that nobody else can agree with him that I hate jews


Actually I’m giggling because I know that at least two other users on here with whom you’ve personally communicated agree that you’re prejudice. But as I said, it’s up to them to reveal themselves.



. It makes him angry that I dont agree with the holocaust official story. He is angry when I say anything about a Jew who uses his religion to gain sympathy so he can continue his terror


How strange that being Jewish means this man has a terror to continue and defend with his religion…


This is why he is the only one on CR trying to lash out on me.


Actually it looks right now like you’re the one lashing out at me.


Now this whole, "If you criticize Islam you are bashed." This is the most laughable statement I have heard in my life even the example I read. There are stereotypical movies made about arabs and muslims and even people writing books about prophet Muhammad getting interviews and praised on the mainstream media. Lets flip the script now George Galloway for giving aid to Palestinians is BANNED from Canada because the JDL (Jewish Defence League) didn't like that.


When was the last time 100 people were murdered because a cartoonist caricaturized a Jewish prophet? The last time it happened with Mohammad was in 2003.


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Lol this is easy. First off if I mention someone elses name it isnt in a way to slander them or attack them. Go back and re read what I wrote about Digs he is just an example of someone who you can comfortably debate without having to keep explaining your not an anti-semite, you dont hate jews etc etc. In fact he is the only one by far who I have a huge disagreement went on CR when it comes to Israel who conducts himself in a mature matter. Whether his point doesnt or my point doesnt reach at the end of the day it is all good. I used Yei as an example to show how I dont care what religion she is her points are very valid when it comes to the Pal/Israel issue. I really never ask people what religion they are because to me it doesnt matter. What matters to me is the information that comes out your mouth.

Concerning your "I have never met a muslim" well I am sorry for you buddy thats to bad. I hear women saying this all the time, " I have never met a good man." I hear guys saing, "I will never fall have a girlfriend." Well buddy thats life hopefully you will meet one. With that note I have no need to address your opinion and it will stay as that.

Back to me being hateful towards jews I feel like I shouldnt have to explain this. Lets see only two people said something about me being racists towards you are one of them and some other guy I forget his name. Nobody else by far thinks I am because their brains thankfully know when I am talking about Israel the country itself rather then just Jews.

Concerning Micheal Chertoff as being jewish I believed Ansar has explained to you already. It just showed his country loyalty. Please dont make me go back and repost it just like I did previously when you dont read thoroughly. He will come to this thread so you can hear his response. I havent raised that issue so no comments here.

Now your being really ridiculous racism and anti-semtism exists everywhere but your trying to just narrow it down to muslims only. I wonder if the Germans who refutes some parts of the holocaust and gets arrested are all muslim? Gee I wonder where I get most my info on Israel/Palestine muslim websites or western websites? I am pretty sure you seen most of my posts when I refrence someone they are either Jewish or American. Now for me to have to keep stressing my point over and over again about the jews who I learn from is getting very tiresome and old I suggest you just learn to read buddy. As I stated now I have not heard any muslim on hear, anyone I know, or any other website when it deals with refuting some of the holocaust material where muslims (when it is mostly non muslims) like hitler.

Back to the Zeigiest thread he is only a nutshell in your own opinion. To me you proved nothing and cowardly ran away. When Ansar hit me up and told me he expected better I agreed you were a complete let down. You talked all the hype but when someone actually challenges you, you fold. People like you I could never follow because you dont stick to tough challenges. You instead have to personally attack someone to gain some leverage and try to play into the crowd.

Seriously this is getting old like I said I am only explaining myself to one idiot on CR who just cant distiguish anything. Nobody else I have to go through this with because I believe everyone else has a good general understanding on what I post. Some people just are not use to hear what I am saying because shall I say it is out of the "norm" and "taboo" in most western countries. Dare I say what I say on these forums in the real world and my career is over. I guess I am not on Seraphs usual playing field where everyone flocks side by side with him name calling people when they raise an issue against anyone of Jewish faith. But not actually criticzing him because he is a Jew but because of the actions he takes. Like I said to me nobody is immune to any criticism. I get on everyone but right now as an American it is not right for me to pay taxes for my governement to send another country economic aid, military aid while my country is hurting within. Lol just funny how what some idiots no matter what thread I go "zomg Drizza you muslim" comes up.

NOw seriously if you dont want to keep going through this be respectful. Keep my name out of your mouth. You dont read any threads and hear me just smearing you without your knowledge to try to make everyone else think you are something when you know you are not. Kinda childish and immature just because of a disagreement. I mean it is just so random I read a thread then boom here you go ranting about me. I am like wtf is this guy trying to accomplish? Is this what you wont everyone to think of me as a racist so I want criticize your favorite country or some of your favorite politicians?

My last edit good night dude I am not going to keep going back and foward with you on the same issues over and over again. I know some day down the line you will start up again whatever this time I am just going to ignore it. Some people can peacefully disagree while others just cant take it and have to go to the extremes.
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