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Christians are you SURE you can eat Pork?
Posted 10/12/09 , edited 10/12/09
don't really care if can or not i love pork and religion is not going dictate me other wise >.>
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Posted 10/12/09

Cuddlebuns wrote:

Doesn't that mean that any sin can be considered good if you don't consider it to be evil, and that Christians can dictate their own morality?


I think what Paul was trying to say is that God wants us to choose good over evil. There’s a point in the bible where it says, “Who are you to judge somebody else’s servant? Every servant is judged by his master’s standard.” That’s not an exact quote, mind you, but it’s in there somewhere. See the correlation, the relevance? So, a Muslim isn’t evil for not believing the Christ died on the cross. In fact, if that Muslim prays every day, makes the pilgrimage at least once in his life, gives to the under privileged, and fasts in Ramadan he’s actually on better grounds than a Christian who ignores the moral perspective of his religion.

Anyway, Christianity is just a belief system. A Christian is an adherent of this belief system. One aspect of the belief system is the moral code. An honest Christian cannot say, “I believe this is right even though god says it’s wrong.” That would mean they’re not Christian, or at least not an honest Christian. You see what I’m saying?

Christians are defined as Christians by what they believe. Christianity states X. So if I believe Y then I’m not a Christian, not really.


But if I were, say, mistaken about something the bible says god would forgive me. It's only when I intentionally go against god's word, when I choose evil, that it's a sin.
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Posted 10/12/09

drizza wrote:

Thats a different topic would you like the source where I got that from. It was from a Christian who asked other Christians and posted those quotes. I am not answering that question you posed to me because it is changing the topic. Like I said all I did was repost a question another christian asked to a group of christians on yahoo I am trying hard to find it now so I can post it. I am not saying you cant and saying this is the reason why you cant. I just want someone to educate me thats all. The difference with this thread and others is people tell you what you cant do and stick by it no matter how you refute it. Like I said I just wan to be educated as this question popped up when researching pork and many Christians making a lot of articles about how they are not suppose to eat it.

What I want to see if any Christian agrees to this if so why?


Can you private message me then? I offered my thoughts on your questions to educate you, it's only fair you reciprocate.
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Posted 10/12/09
I didnt get a chance to read the edit sorry I had two notifications and cannot find that damn yahoo topic gosh it makes me so mad I had it up when I was typing this thread. I am going to respond tomorrow truth be told I have work in the morning and I am staying up way past my bed time.
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Posted 10/12/09 , edited 10/12/09
If pork so toxic, then why have so many cultures thru out the world continued thriving instead of dying out?

Yes, I suppose there were high mortality rates associated with improperly prepared or cooked pork, & that back before knowledge of germs, let alone how to properly kill them or prevent their growth. Considering the time period in which the people of God were living when they were given these instructions, there wasn't the benefit of food preservation or refrigeration.

We used to raise hogs on our farm (we stopped as a matter of cost management almost 15 yrs ago), & we would have our hogs processed, under sanitary, USDA inspected businesses, & we would eat that pork, including the liver ( a personal favorite).

As Christian, who has been a part of more than one denomination over the years, I have never heard a teaching against the eating of pork. So, I do.


[ p.s. the scripture of the Apostle Paul to which SeraphAlford was referring is 1 Corinthians 10 : 23-30]
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Posted 10/12/09

SeraphAlford wrote:


drizza wrote:

Nah in no way shape and form am I turning this into any religious war (hence read the first sentence of the topic) I am just curious as I am quoting what I read from other Christians, not people of other faiths stating Christians aren't suppose to consume pork. Those biblical quotes I got from another Christian . Now if this turns into a religious war over pork people are being very sensitive and insecure.


You sure, because I’ve seen that exact same argument with those exact same citations trying to slander Christianity and Christians on a Muslim website.

Although, if it is just out of curiosity that’s fine. I do have a question for you though. Muslims believe Jesus Christ never really died on the cross. That he deceived the onlookers by letting somebody else who looked like him go instead. What do Muslims think about his character based on this?


Hello, I hope drizza don't mind if I answer this:
Honestly, I don't know from what you get that Jesus deceived the onlookers by letting somebody else who looked like him go instead, because the statement in the Quran is [it was made to appear to them], It is in ( the passive tense)


[4: 157-158] That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah.;- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-
Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise;-

Whatever, even if Jesus deceived the onlookers then this added to his miracles by God( Healing,Table ...etc); he is God's servant and messenger.
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Posted 10/13/09
i think christians are not told and obliged to not eat pork.. 'coz as the teachings says.. man was given free will.. so it's his choice to eat it or not.. but it's also implied that he should do things in moderation.. and it's in his decisions that shall mold his life.. whether it will be an examined life or not.. it depends on him...=)
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Posted 10/13/09 , edited 10/13/09

Real_ZERO wrote:

You sure, because I’ve seen that exact same argument with those exact same citations trying to slander Christianity and Christians on a Muslim website.

Although, if it is just out of curiosity that’s fine. I do have a question for you though. Muslims believe Jesus Christ never really died on the cross. That he deceived the onlookers by letting somebody else who looked like him go instead. What do Muslims think about his character based on this?


Hello, I hope drizza don't mind if I answer this:
Honestly, I don't know from what you get that Jesus deceived the onlookers by letting somebody else who looked like him go instead, because the statement in the Quran is [it was made to appear to them], It is in ( the passive tense)


[4: 157-158] That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah.;- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-
Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise;-

Whatever, even if Jesus deceived the onlookers then this added to his miracles by God( Healing,Table ...etc); he is God's servant and messenger.

Oh, so it was a miracle to convince the people that they’d achieved what they had not? I was actually going off something somebody in the Muslim group had told me, that’s why I thought Jesus let somebody else get crucified in his stead. See, interfaith dialogues do have a purpose.

The deceit still confuses me though, but then I guess if I were a Muslim I’d be saying, “God letting his son get crucified confuses me.”

Here's another question. Are Muslims allowed to eat pork? What's the Qur'an say about all that? As I understand it's just like it is with Christianity. They weren't allowed but now they are.
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Posted 10/13/09

CecilTheDarkKnight_234 wrote:

don't really care if can or not i love pork and religion is not going dictate me other wise >.>


I wonder how the bacon industry is holding out in Israel…
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Posted 10/13/09 , edited 10/13/09
Here is why Christians believe that eating pork is not sinful.

Act 10:9 About noon the following day as they were on their journey and approaching the city, Peter went up on the roof to pray. Act 10:10 He became hungry and wanted something to eat, and while the meal was being prepared, he fell into a trance. Act 10:11 He saw heaven opened and something like a large sheet being let down to earth by its four corners. Act 10:12 It contained all kinds of four-footed animals, as well as reptiles of the earth and birds of the air. Act 10:13 Then a voice told him, "Get up, Peter. Kill and eat." Act 10:14 "Surely not, Lord!" Peter replied. "I have never eaten anything impure or unclean." Act 10:15 The voice spoke to him a second time, "Do not call anything impure that God has made clean." Act 10:16 This happened three times, and immediately the sheet was taken back to heaven.

This came as a shock to Peter as he was a devout Jew. In the Jewish Law God said that eating pork and other animals with a spit hoof was unclean. This was apart of the covenant that God made with Israel. Through Jesus Christians believe that God extended His covenant to all people. From the very beginning God had chosen ancient Israel to be a light to the nations and direct the world towards the True God and away from idols and whatever they worshiped. Now, we believe that Jesus fulfilled the Law of Moses. In the sense that the rituals, regulations, clean/unclean have all been fulfilled. They served the purpose in the Old Covenant to bring forgiveness to those who abide by this (the Jews). Sin is still sin, but the method of sacrifice and the rituals that were given to the Jews so that they may be forgiven have been fulfilled by Jesus. By this I mean their purpose is now complete because the Messiah (Jesus) has come to forgive sin, so therefore we no longer need to adhere to the Old Laws. People had to stay clean so that they may worship in the Temple and bring sacrifice to God (no unclean man or woman was allowed in). Now that we no longer need the Temple and rituals it is permissible for us to eat what God has created.

What God is doing here establishes two things.
1) Showing even more that the Old Covenant has been fulfilled (not destroyed) by Jesus.
2) You may now eat what God has created, it says "God has made it clean" meaning that it is no longer unclean. It is no longer unclean because the Covenant has changed and instead of forgiveness through the Jewish Law, we now have it through Jesus who is God and atoned for sin once and for all. God has made it clean because it is no longer necessary to follow these rituals and practices for forgiveness.
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Posted 10/13/09
Digs and Seraph thanks for the info I have more questions but I will have to wait untill I get home.
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Posted 10/13/09
So Leviticus, Deuteronomy, and Isaiah are mitzfahs? And what is those three terms I just mentioned? Just a side note as well I got all my information from Christian websites which doesnt attack Christianity in any shape or form.
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Posted 10/13/09 , edited 10/13/09

drizza wrote:

So Leviticus, Deuteronomy, and Isaiah are mitzfahs? And what is those three terms I just mentioned? Just a side note as well I got all my information from Christian websites which doesnt attack Christianity in any shape or form.


Well, Leviticus and Deuteronomy are part of the Torah and Christians are morally bound to the commandments that denote sin like the 10 Commandments, sexual purity, and other things. However, when it comes to regulations regarding clean/unclean, temple worship, and sacrifice we are not bound to that. Jesus says it best Mat 5:17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. What Jesus is saying is that the Law in regards to ritual, sacrifice, and commands pertaining to forgiveness have been fulfilled. Basically forgiveness no longer comes through the Law, but through Jesus who fulfilled the Law. By fulfilling it there is no longer a need for animal sacrifice because Jesus has become the ultimate sacrifice that atones. The Law was a way for man to come back to God, to receive forgiveness from sin. Now that Jesus has come we may obtain forgiveness through Him and not through what is written in the Law. But the commands that denote sin still remain. In the book of Romans it also touches on this. Romans 7:1-13 1Do you not know, brothers—for I am speaking to men who know the law—that the law has authority over a man only as long as he lives? 2For example, by law a married woman is bound to her husband as long as he is alive, but if her husband dies, she is released from the law of marriage. 3So then, if she marries another man while her husband is still alive, she is called an adulteress. But if her husband dies, she is released from that law and is not an adulteress, even though she marries another man. 4So, my brothers, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit to God. 5For when we were controlled by the sinful nature,[a] the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in our bodies, so that we bore fruit for death. 6But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code. 7What shall we say, then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! Indeed I would not have known what sin was except through the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, "Do not covet." 8But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of covetous desire. For apart from law, sin is dead. 9Once I was alive apart from law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. 10I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death. 11For sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death. 12So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good. 13Did that which is good, then, become death to me? By no means! But in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it produced death in me through what was good, so that through the commandment sin might become utterly sinful.

Isaiah is part of the Prophets and thus contains prophecy and a message from God through the prophet Isaiah. The Hebrew Bible (Old Testament) is split into 3 parts. The Torah, the Ketuvim (writings like Psalms and Proverbs) and the Nevi'im (which is the books of the prophets like Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, etc). Mitzvah means commandment in Hebrew.
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Posted 10/13/09

SeraphAlford wrote:
Oh, so it was a miracle to convince the people that they’d achieved what they had not? I was actually going off something somebody in the Muslim group had told me, that’s why I thought Jesus let somebody else get crucified in his stead. See, interfaith dialogues do have a purpose.

Remember, this still needs certain. What I said was if this were verified, then it doesn't change the status of Jesus, as a God's messenger; I mean Wasn't he performing many miracle with Allah's permission greater than this (3:49)?. Moses parted the sea by his staff. Solomon had great miracles. Indeed, faith move mountains.


SeraphAlford
The deceit still confuses me though, but then I guess if I were a Muslim I’d be saying, “God letting his son get crucified confuses me.”


If you were muslim, wouldn't you believe that God had no son?.


SeraphAlford
Here's another question. Are Muslims allowed to eat pork? What's the Qur'an say about all that? As I understand it's just like it is with Christianity. They weren't allowed but now they are.


No, we aren't allowed to eat pork or other prohibited food expect if we were forced by hunger and have no food but pork or prohibited food, then it's ok to eat them (5:3) but under normal circumstances, it is forbidden. However, as you may see some muslims drink alcohols; which is sin, other eat pork.
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Posted 10/13/09

Gaia93 wrote:

So I guess barbeque ribs are out of the question?
Already I don't like the way this thread is going. From past forums anything that has to deal with religion or it's people will lead to some type of argument. I'll stay around for awhile, just to see what happens, but if I see an argument i"ll just have to lock this thread.

Just seems like another way to target Christians to me.


isnt an argument a debate? and isnt this extended discussion? so we aren't allowed to debate?

anyway, to stay on topic, im sure there are many health reasons why we should stay away from pork, and other unatural meats...

is a pig a natural animal? But i wont stop at pork..ill throw in beef in there as well. and Any meat processed for fast food. If we look at the history of how these animals came to be, some of them aren't natural, and really arnt meant to be consumed the way we are consuming them. Thats why in America, there is this big movenment toward healthier life styles. And food industries are starting to get irritated..peace over war

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